|
Phanatic posted:One bit that's gonna be interesting is that I-695 is the Hazmat route for I-95. The official word is to go all the way around the other direction on I-695 lol
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 04:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:58 |
|
|
The distance is actually shorter (by about a mile) going around the west side, but the traffic is generally much worse. There's a reason most of the east side is 2 lanes and they're currently adding a 5th in parts of the west.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 04:19
|
|
|
So, what you are saying is that now would be a great time for Ellicott City to finally be washed off the map with another 500-year flood?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 05:17
|
|
|
I'm still chortling over "my uncle done lost his fanger on this one"
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 05:30
|
|
|
Xerol posted:The distance is actually shorter (by about a mile) going around the west side, but the traffic is generally much worse. There's a reason most of the east side is 2 lanes and they're currently adding a 5th in parts of the west. At least they can rebuild the bridge with more lanes now. That'll fix the traffic problem.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 06:33
|
|
|
Safety Dance posted:I've cooled on this theory a little bit. The person who runs the Casual Navigation YouTube channel pointed out that Dali turned to starboard around the time it was passing the entrance to the Curtis Bay channel, and the initial turn to starboard might have been bank effect. Once they regained power, I imagine the thick black smoke was the engines going crash astern. Power recovery on a ship isn’t fast, you’ve got about a minute until the emergency generator runs up and connects and that barely covers some critical systems. Its entirely possible the gouts of black smoke spilling from the funnel are the result of the engine misfiring like gently caress after blackout because it’s not normal to look like you burn coal unless your combustion is seriously hosed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 06:53
|
|
|
Safety Dance posted:They actually have a second set of cams that slide into place to run the engine in reverse. If I recall correctly, the crash astern procedure involves slowing the engine way down, sliding the reversing cams into place, and using pressurized air or steam to get the engine spinning backwards until it can start dieseling on its own. Not incorrect but slightly old fashioned, most modern ships like this will have an electronically controlled main engine rather than timing and injection being controlled by a cam shaft. I’ve been in the engine room on large containers for near enough 14 years and I’ve literally never sailed on a non electronically controlled main engine. To reverse the computer just changes to firing order rather than shifting cams.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 07:03
|
|
|
Mr Teatime posted:Not incorrect but slightly old fashioned, most modern ships like this will have an electronically controlled main engine rather than timing and injection being controlled by a cam shaft. I’ve been in the engine room on large containers for near enough 14 years and I’ve literally never sailed on a non electronically controlled main engine. To reverse the computer just changes to firing order rather than shifting cams. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. My experience is mostly on 10-15 year old bulkers and chemical tankers. The only container ships I worked on were LNG-powered.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 07:37
|
|
|
Mr Teatime posted:Power recovery on a ship isn’t fast, you’ve got about a minute until the emergency generator runs up and connects and that barely covers some critical systems. Its entirely possible the gouts of black smoke spilling from the funnel are the result of the engine misfiring like gently caress after blackout because it’s not normal to look like you burn coal unless your combustion is seriously hosed. Old school diesels smoke like crazy at full throttle from low RPM, because the turbo hasn't caught up yet with the air demand, and old diesels just smoke at the maximum power output. Today you don't notice it with diesel road vehicles anymore because of modern diesel injection systems and filters, but if you floor an old mechanical diesel passenger car at 1500rpm, you can bet there'll be at least *some* smoke. How much depends on how the specific injector setting. Modern diesel can smoke too, but usually in a power range not accessible in normal use. So to me, it does seem like it's smoke from the actual 'oh gently caress' engine setting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 08:06
|
|
|
LimaBiker posted:Old school diesels smoke like crazy at full throttle from low RPM, because the turbo hasn't caught up yet with the air demand, and old diesels just smoke at the maximum power output. I wonder what the turbo lag is like on a turbo sized for an engine with six 111,000 cubic inch cylinders.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 09:31
|
|
|
Mr Teatime posted:Power recovery on a ship isn’t fast, you’ve got about a minute until the emergency generator runs up and connects and that barely covers some critical systems. Its entirely possible the gouts of black smoke spilling from the funnel are the result of the engine misfiring like gently caress after blackout because it’s not normal to look like you burn coal unless your combustion is seriously hosed. Or you're a Russian warship. e: wait, do they actually burn coal? poo poo, so much for my joke then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 11:36
|
|
|
Howard Beale posted:Why don't they just raise the bridge? well lowering it hasnt worked
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 11:37
|
|
|
Howard Beale posted:Why don't they just raise the bridge? Replace the piers with a lot of Helium balloons and float the bridge over the ships like the house in "Up". Geez, this engineering stuff isn't that hard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 14:32
|
|
|
Big rear end orange hot wheels ramp is the answer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 14:51
|
|
|
Mine fields. Everyone will be super careful and if a ship gets out of control, it will sink before hitting the bridge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 14:54
|
|
|
Robert Facepalmer posted:So, what you are saying is that now would be a great time for Ellicott City to finally be washed off the map with another 500-year flood? I want you to know that I'm local enough to have  ed at this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 14:57
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:Or you're a Russian warship. close enough; it's usually the dirtiest and shittiest leftovers from oil refinery as i understand it
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:03
|
|
|
Minera posted:close enough; it's usually the dirtiest and shittiest leftovers from oil refinery as i understand it That's Bunker Oil in general, Russia's ship's engines are just that poorly maintained.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:05
|
|
|
Noone's ever done gymnastics? She's like... 7-8 feet in the air, just catch her. A couple years ago on NJ-17 I had to convince a trucker to slide down to me & another passerby after he lost control and careened into the concrete median, flipping his truck over (no trailer attached, thankfully). The truck was sideways and he climbed UP the only possible door and was on top of the truck eyeing the engine block as a way to climb down, which seemed like the worst possible option to me. He sorted leaned forward off the lip of the truck and grabbed our hands, and then I caught his butt on my shoulder robbing most of his momentum before he dropped to his feet. I think about it every time my wife is like "ooh can we make an IKEA run this weekend"
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
Omnikin posted:Noone's ever done gymnastics? She's like... 7-8 feet in the air, just catch her. A couple years ago on NJ-17 I had to convince a trucker to slide down to me & another passerby after he lost control and careened into the concrete median, flipping his truck over (no trailer attached, thankfully). The truck was sideways and he climbed UP the only possible door and was on top of the truck eyeing the engine block as a way to climb down, which seemed like the worst possible option to me. He sorted leaned forward off the lip of the truck and grabbed our hands, and then I caught his butt on my shoulder robbing most of his momentum before he dropped to his feet. I think about it every time my wife is like "ooh can we make an IKEA run this weekend" Yeah, all those guys just wanted an excuse to maybe have a chance to touch her rear end, or have a tit hit them in the shoulder or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:14
|
|
|
Minera posted:close enough; it's usually the dirtiest and shittiest leftovers from oil refinery as i understand it North America and the EU both have emissions control areas surrounding them; ships operating in those areas usually burn much cleaner fuel. As of 2020, though, even the bunker fuel used in the middle of the ocean has to be low sulfur (or ships need to be fitted with exhaust gas scrubbers to reduce the sulfur content of their exhaust).
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/notbenfish/status/1772658195334418575
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:18
|
|
|
oh no. stop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:24
|
|
|
hawowanlawow posted:oh no. stop. Nah gently caress it, let them go if they want to. Send their families the bill for recovery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:31
|
|
|
look, google says there's a bridge there, so I'm gonna drive over it, dammit
haveblue fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Mar 27, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:40
|
|
|
LimaBiker posted:Old school diesels smoke like crazy at full throttle from low RPM, because the turbo hasn't caught up yet with the air demand, and old diesels just smoke at the maximum power output. It's funny seeing this from the perspective of vehicles. On commercial/industrial burners that are UL listed, any smoke above a 0 on a 0-10 scale is a failure, and is also wasted fuel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 15:57
|
|
|
Without knowing specifically where that clip is showing, is it possible that there are any side roads that that's the only access to? I've had road crews do that. There was an accident near my house and they blocked off the road for like a mile in either direction, but along the blocked off section are no-outlet neighborhoods that can only be accessed from the closed portion. It's a loving blizzard and I have a baby in the truck with me, we need to get home for numerous reasons, and the guy on the road is all pissy because I drove past their flare. And the accident was past my road anyhow, there was literally no reason. I'm not saying that's at all remotely likely what's happening up there, it's pretty drat unlikely, but there are potentially reasons to blithely ignore barricades in some cases.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 16:25
|
|
|
Looks to be on Fort Armistead Rd leading up to the last on-ramp to the beltway before the bridge. There is literally nothing past the onramp that would be open at night. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 16:48
|
|
|
Yeah, figures they were probably just being stubborn idiots, that’s generally the most likely answer. Ah well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 17:41
|
|
|
Zero One posted:That’s the Detroit River. at least it wasn't the charles. he would have come up looking like the bad guy that got melted in robocop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:01
|
|
|
Aishlinn posted:at least it wasn't the charles. he would have come up looking like the bad guy that got melted in robocop. Never forget. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKaSe37dIk
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
kreeningsons posted:i did some quick loving around calculations at work but for energy absorbed, which based on my loving around research is the main way these bridge dolphins/protections systems are rated. It does feel nice to have relatively grounded discussions about the incident and what preventative measures would look like and be capable of. While dolphins or protective islands would (presumably) be good, I also wonder about the soil typology in a large, presumably very alluvial harbor - those pilings would have to be deep and plentiful to be able to handle anything close to the lateral loading that a container ship would be capable of. I'm not familiar with the soils around Sunshine Skyway, either, or dolphin construction, or, or, or, or I wonder, ultimately, how much of an impact any truss bridge like this could take. No question that the supports were the most overwhelmingly critical parts, but I have to presume that designing for something to impact those piles with even 1/10th the tonnage is asking for the Hoover Dam.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:40
|
|
|
and I have no question that the replacement bridge is going to be an incredible and shockingly resilient megastructure. How many other critical links over critical waterways are begging for maintenance, though, that are going to be largely overlooked? dammit a terrible and nigh-unpredictable accident has got me doompilled. It'll be everything I can do not to dig through decrepit infrastructure articles for the rest of the day.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:44
|
|
|
The bridge didn’t fall due to maintenance or design. There isn’t really much you can do to withstand that kind of impact. Most bridges in the world would collapse if hit by a fully loaded modern cargo ship with a head of steam. The issue was the ship having the worst engineering casualty it could have near a bridge. If you want to prevent this issue, you focus on the ship itself and what went wrong.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:53
|
|
|
I don't get why they didn't just raise the bridge or lower the water ahead of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:57
|
|
|
Would it be possible for the rebuilt bridge to have fewer towers to reduce the likelihood of this happening? I'm not a civ-e, so it's out of my expertise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 18:59
|
|
|
One of the things I've been trying to research (unsuccessfully so far) is why they went with one of the longest truss spans in the world over any other option. I suspect the main factors were some combination of "cost", "cable stayed bridges weren't the go-to design yet", and "there's a steelworks 1/4 mile away". The channel itself is also less wide than the central span: So it was as wide as it needed to be. Modern cable-stayed designs can have spans longer than not only the longest span of the truss (1/4 mile) but the entire width of the waterway (1 mile)*, and you can go even longer with suspension. Any serious study on the replacement bridge design is going to look at the balance between the costs of protective structures and a longer unsupported span. If they can build a replacement 1/4 mile span + sufficient dolphins for less than it costs to build the 1 mile span and no dolphins, they probably will. Another factor is the height of the bridge itself. Not only to let tall ships pass through, but vehicles need to go up and down to get over the bridge, and you can't have that slope be too steep, and there's only so much land either side of the bridge where you can raise the highway. *Assuming you count the causeway portion of the bridge complex as land
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 19:10
|
|
|
Explosionface posted:Would it be possible for the rebuilt bridge to have fewer towers to reduce the likelihood of this happening? I'm not a civ-e, so it's out of my expertise. The replacement bridge will be reachable only by helicopter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 19:22
|
|
|
Desert Bus posted:I don't get why they didn't just raise the bridge or lower the water ahead of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 19:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:58 |
|
|
Big Mac posted:While dolphins or protective islands would (presumably) be good, I also wonder about the soil typology in a large, presumably very alluvial harbor - those pilings would have to be deep and plentiful to be able to handle anything close to the lateral loading that a container ship would be capable of. Use the silt to your advantage. Put the piers supporting the bridge far enough outside of the dredged shipping channel so that any ship big enough to hurt the bridge runs aground first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2024 19:33
|
|
