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schmug
May 20, 2007

aas Bandit posted:




I did a fair amount of caving when I was younger, and have even been through some tight spots where I couldn't take a full breath.
The question you ask yourself is, "Am I completely 100% in control here? Can I back up if I want, easily, at any moment, if I decide this is getting dangerous?"

If you have the slightest doubt about either of those things, then you are not safe and you need to STOP.
(And there were times where I said "nope" and stopped and so did everyone else with me because they weren't stupid either and poo poo was getting tight-ish and we didn't know what was coming.)

Confined spaces are fine, and fun for some people, as is the physical challenge of caving. Exploring is cool, as is darkness and climbing and so on.
But like anything else, holy poo poo people are stupid and anyone who says, "It'll be fine!" and jams their idiot rear end into a spot where they can't move around enough to back the gently caress up is rolling some big ol' dice.

seems like that dude nailed the STOP part

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Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Presented without comment

quote:

"We did our best out there to do a rescue, recovery, to get the death pronounced before Thanksgiving Day,” he said, noting that rescuers rushed an EKG down into the cave to confirm Jones’ death before midnight turned the clock to Thanksgiving. “We hustled so it wouldn’t be a Thanksgiving memory for the family every year,” said Leavitt, a member of the Nutty Putty Cave Management team.

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Wow thank goodness human brains reset every day at midnight.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
Mine certainly does

xtal
Jan 9, 2011

by Fluffdaddy

Green Intern posted:

Wow thank goodness human brains reset every day at midnight.

Can you prove otherwise?

The Wiggly Wizard
Aug 21, 2008


aas Bandit posted:

I did a fair amount of caving when I was younger, and have even been through some tight spots where I couldn't take a full breath.
The question you ask yourself is, "Am I completely 100% in control here? Can I back up if I want, easily, at any moment, if I decide this is getting dangerous?"

If you have the slightest doubt about either of those things, then you are not safe and you need to STOP.
(And there were times where I said "nope" and stopped and so did everyone else with me because they weren't stupid either and poo poo was getting tight-ish and we didn't know what was coming.)

Confined spaces are fine, and fun for some people, as is the physical challenge of caving. Exploring is cool, as is darkness and climbing and so on.
But like anything else, holy poo poo people are stupid and anyone who says, "It'll be fine!" and jams their idiot rear end into a spot where they can't move around enough to back the gently caress up is rolling some big ol' dice.

I’ve worked some pretty dangerous jobs and it was always a great fear of mine to be killed at work and remembered as an “idiot”. I don’t think making a deadly mistake makes one automatically stupid because there are other factors like peer/employer pressure, adrenaline, and missing/bad information that can overwhelm common sense.

BitBasher
Jun 6, 2004

You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.


Varkk posted:

Being wrapped in paper probably helps with the health and safety aspect of handling lead.

Elviscat posted:

E:^^^ Yeah, you don't have raw lead kicking around where people can handle it, even most bullets are copper plated, we encased our lead bricks in duct tape over plastic.

gently caress, my childhood is the OSHA story. My dad and uncle for a while reloaded shot shells in quantity. I remember being a kid and they somehow recovered fired lead birdshot from specific places that were popular shooting spots in the desert, hundreds and hundreds of pounds of it. They would process the spend lead shot by tumbling it in a small cement mixer for several hours which (I was told) rounded out the lead shot that was pancaked and getting dirt and stuff off it, kind of like a big like a rock tumbler. I remember mentioning that the cloud coming out the front was "sparkly" and my dad casually mentioned I should try not to breathe too much of that in. For hours at a time, in my backyard.

Pretty much one of these:

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

Sagebrush posted:

Presented without comment

"And this year, like all years, we give thanks that our beloved son John died in terror and agony, strangled by the unyielding and terrible Earth itself, yesterday, and not today. Amen."

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

BitBasher posted:

.

Pretty much one of these:


You have boomer brains, I'm terribly sorry.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The whole Nutty Putty thing is so surreal so I'm ok with giving them credit for the small things. Imagine if you're that dude's wife and you got a call like "your husband is stuck in Nutty Putty. We can maybe get him out?" And you have to drive out to Nutty Putty to sing Mormon hymns with your brother in law and everyone slowly realizes he's not coming out before a 5 ft nothing volunteer cave rescuer comes out saying "caves haunted. Don't ask." Finishing up before Thanksgiving is a victory in that light.

(Paraphrasing only slightly made up)

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Fix the cigarette lighter.

EvenWorseOpinions
Jun 10, 2017

The Wiggly Wizard posted:

I’ve worked some pretty dangerous jobs and it was always a great fear of mine to be killed at work and remembered as an “idiot”. I don’t think making a deadly mistake makes one automatically stupid because there are other factors like peer/employer pressure, adrenaline, and missing/bad information that can overwhelm common sense.

We were doing a safety stand down meeting because one guy lost a hand at a sister site and another guy lost a finger at a different site from LOTO violations and one of the new hires is a big macho guy who can talk for like a minute straight without taking a breath about how his tattoo is of '[Hebrew symbol] which means the bull which is the man of the house and the head of the family' etc, he pipes up 'wow those guys are idiots', and the regional manager is in the room and just death glares him and asks 'do you think they thought they were idiots before they got amputated?'

It was a pretty lovely job but at least all our management except for our safety guy took safety seriously.

nomad2020
Jan 30, 2007

aas Bandit posted:

The question you ask yourself is, "Am I completely 100% in control here? Can I back up if I want, easily, at any moment, if I decide this is getting dangerous?"

Kids used to routinely get stuck in the part of that cave in the video too, just that it was 'easy' to tow the fat kids back out.

zedprime posted:

The whole Nutty Putty thing is so surreal so I'm ok with giving them credit for the small things. Imagine if you're that dude's wife and you got a call like "your husband is stuck in Nutty Putty. We can maybe get him out?" And you have to drive out to Nutty Putty to sing Mormon hymns with your brother in law and everyone slowly realizes he's not coming out before a 5 ft nothing volunteer cave rescuer comes out saying "caves haunted. Don't ask." Finishing up before Thanksgiving is a victory in that light.

(Paraphrasing only slightly made up)

The thing that stays with me about this one is where it kind of hosed up some of the rescue crew. Saying something to the effect of 'This is the only rescue attempt where they were given a more or less healthy person who was just barely out of reach the whole time and they could do little more than wait.'

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

nomad2020 posted:

Kids used to routinely get stuck in the part of that cave in the video too, just that it was 'easy' to tow the fat kids back out.


The thing that stays with me about this one is where it kind of hosed up some of the rescue crew. Saying something to the effect of 'This is the only rescue attempt where they were given a more or less healthy person who was just barely out of reach the whole time and they could do little more than wait.'
I think part of that is their confidence means they tried every option to get him out without further injury until his circulation was completely failing. By the time they spitballed "what if we just mulch his arms" any shock would have immediately killed him. Not that anyone is nearly psychologically and physically equiped to even try that.

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

Charged with the crime of being too goddamn radical.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Scratch Monkey posted:

weight is a measurement of the effect of gravity on mass

minus buoyancy and the centrifugal effect

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

Seattle had some exciting truckfuckling yesterday



e: the driver "self extracted" and is ok according to Seattle Fire Dept

a kitten fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Apr 15, 2021

Ornamental Dingbat
Feb 26, 2007

a kitten posted:

Seattle had some exciting truckfuckling yesterday



e: the driver "self extracted" and is ok according to Seattle Fire Dept

The driver was fired for not using enough R and too much L.

DR FRASIER KRANG
Feb 4, 2005

"Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

a kitten posted:

Seattle had some exciting truckfuckling yesterday



e: the driver "self extracted" and is ok according to Seattle Fire Dept

Is this the Spokane St viaduct?

Sjs00
Jun 29, 2013

Yeah Baby Yeah !
self extracted how???

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

I wonder if that's a typo since the earlier tweet says they're working to extract him

https://twitter.com/SeattleFire/status/1382590882709311494?s=19

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Extracted the seat cushion from himself

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo

Platystemon posted:

Extracted the seat cushion from himself

He made a rope from empty Subway bags and repelled down

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
'uncontrolled self-extraction'

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib

a kitten posted:

Seattle had some exciting truckfuckling yesterday



e: the driver "self extracted" and is ok according to Seattle Fire Dept


Well, that certainly is an "anywhere".

Slugnoid
Jun 23, 2006

Nap Ghost

https://files.catbox.moe/vtbaic.mp4

mom and dad fight a lot
Sep 21, 2006

If you count them all, this sentence has exactly seventy-two characters.
Thank god the crash didn't make him auto-extract.

nomad2020
Jan 30, 2007

zedprime posted:

I think part of that is their confidence means they tried every option to get him out without further injury until his circulation was completely failing. By the time they spitballed "what if we just mulch his arms" any shock would have immediately killed him. Not that anyone is nearly psychologically and physically equiped to even try that.

I hadn't full considered that aspect, just extra hosed.

Mr. Fix It
Oct 26, 2000

💀ayyy💀


I saw this pop up in the vernacular press last night and knew it would be some scary fodder for this thread

"The Mainichi posted:

4 die in fire suppression system accident in Tokyo parking garage

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Four building maintenance workers were killed Thursday in a basement parking garage in Tokyo as a fire suppression system was unintentionally activated, trapping them in an enclosed space with high levels of carbon dioxide, police and firefighters said.

A total of six men were replacing ceiling linings in the parking garage of a condominium building in Shinjuku Ward when the fire suppression system caused shutters to close and began discharging CO2 as a fire extinguishing agent, the police said.

The four men ranged in age from their 30s to their 50s, the authorities said, adding that one worker in his 20s is in critical condition and receiving treatment at a hospital.

Rescue workers measured the CO2 density in the parking garage as about 20 percent, several hundred times higher than the normal level, the Tokyo Fire Department said.

After the accident, which took place shortly after 5 p.m., one of the six workers managed to exit the parking garage and sought help from a person in charge of the maintenance work.

According to fire department authorities, when a fire suppression system of this type activates, there is a warning message urging evacuation and CO2 is released after a certain period of time.

What a terrifying way to go. Japanese OSHA is JISHA (Japan Industrial Safety and Health Association), btw.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Is there a form of caving where you bring a jackhammer and don't accept the cave's definition of where you can and can't go?

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019

by Pragmatica

The Lone Badger posted:

Is there a form of caving where you bring a jackhammer and don't accept the cave's definition of where you can and can't go?

Mining

Ror
Oct 21, 2010

😸Everything's 🗞️ purrfect!💯🤟


nomad2020 posted:

Kids used to routinely get stuck in the part of that cave in the video too, just that it was 'easy' to tow the fat kids back out.

I was googling stuff about the cave and came across this Mormon family website that documents all of their outdoor adventures.

https://dyeclan.com/outdooractivities/caving/?id=68

They have a whole happy page about the cave complete with pictures of the whole family crammed into it. Apparently it was "the most popular Boy Scout cave in Utah." They went twice just months before it closed.



Five stars.

Still Fluxing
Feb 14, 2013

A vision. A picture in my head. A picture of this.

Ror posted:

I was googling stuff about the cave and came across this Mormon family website that documents all of their outdoor adventures.

https://dyeclan.com/outdooractivities/caving/?id=68

They have a whole happy page about the cave complete with pictures of the whole family crammed into it. Apparently it was "the most popular Boy Scout cave in Utah." They went twice just months before it closed.



Five stars.

Mormonism: Not Even Once

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019

by Pragmatica

Still Fluxing posted:

Mormonism: Not Even Once

Lapsed LDS: Definitely go back for more

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

oh boy the banner image on that site. those are the mormonest mormons to ever mormon

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

The Lone Badger posted:

Is there a form of caving where you bring a jackhammer and don't accept the cave's definition of where you can and can't go?


Yeah and the jackhammer is the last step, after you've blasted it out with ANFO

Number_6
Jul 23, 2006

BAN ALL GAS GUZZLERS

(except for mine)
Pillbug
Going back to paper-wrapped lead brick, I hope handling lead in solid form isn't really that bad because in the '70s and '80s I fuckin' did it all the time when fishing with my dad (lead fishing weights). Some of those weights were designed to be crimped onto the line, and if you didn't have pliers handy the easiest way to do that was to bite down on it.

Edit: for bonus points we used to fish in this bay sometimes, but I don't think we ever ate any of those fish (even then we knew that bay was hosed, you could see orange slime/scum all over the place):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MvyUTeE5XM



Number_6 fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Apr 16, 2021

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Handling lead is totally safe as long as you aren't grinding or melting it, you wash your hands afterwards and you don't lick your fingers. In solid elemental form it doesn't go through your skin.

Biting down on lead sinkers is somewhat...less safe.

ArcMage
Sep 14, 2007

What is this thread?

Ramrod XTreme
Wrapping the lead shielding bricks is meaningful if you're going to be handling them for hours at a time all day at work, or whichever. Metallic lead doesn't do much but you inevitably get some oxides and salts just from reaction with air, moisture, and stuff on your skin, and it's worth avoiding.

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Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.




Russian BT-5 or BT-7 tank. Those things were kinda notorious for actually having way too much zoom for a tank and being hard to drive. Seriously, imagine a trying to handle a 14 tonne vehicle with enough zoomies under the hood to get over 80 KPH on a decent road (and 50 KPH offroad).

Fun as gently caress in War Thunder, especially in Arcade Mode where it gets more zoomies.

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