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wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe



Well, today was gun show day in Washington. That usually means, greasy breakfast with my pop, then aimlessly wandering the show looking for nothing in particular while talking about current firearms events, eating gun show beef jerky, and cracking jokes about the weird poo poo people try selling for way too much. This gun show was no different, except for the part where I decided to scratch an itch that I've been meaning to scratch for a few years now - I snagged a CVA rifle kit for $85.

Now I don't know much about CVA kits other than they have a reputation for quality, and they've been out of production for a little while so I'm jumping into this project more or less blind.



The first thing you might notice about the photo above, besides the whole box of gunmuzzle loader is that the triggers sure seem to be missing, and you'd be right. Somewhere between consummating the purchase, and packing the gun into the box, the triggers fell out on the Seller's table. Fortunately, my father was able to retrieve them before he left the gun show, so those will be making an appearance over the next few posts. When I get my hands on it I'll retake the packed package photo for your dancing and dining delight.

Based on the retail sticker for $149 on the packaging, these things weren't particularly cheap back in 1977. Adjusted for inflation this bad boy retailed for $655.46, making the $85 I got it for a bit of a steal.


Hopefully, I'm not missing any more parts! These things haven't been made in America for a zillion years and are completely out of production now.


Did I mention it was made in the USA?



Lockwork pix for you lockwork dweebs

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wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

The Plan
Phase 1: Kit Review
  • Purchase kit
  • Read the manual
  • Parts Review
  • Order missing parts
  • Create LP thread
  • Read the manual
  • Figure out any special mods
Phase 2: Planning
  • Determine the final finish (Nitride, Blue, Parkerization, Sharpie, Raw, Hard Chrome, Nickel, Brown Town )
  • Purchase any required tooling I don't have on hand (sandpaper?)
  • Read the manual
Phase 3 Assembly and Fitment
  • Read the manual
  • Dry fitment
  • Rough fitment and assembly
Phase 4: Test Firing
  • See if it blows my face off
  • If face is blown off, project over
  • If face is not blown off, proceed to phase 5
Phase 5: Final Finish
  • Implement any double special modifications determined in Phase 1
  • Sand stock to final dimensions
  • Oil finish stock
  • TBD: Metalwork finish
Phase 6: Shoot Dis Big Smoki Boi
  • Shoot things with this not-firearm

Build Requirements
  • Muzzleloader must be safe to fire
  • Muzzleloader must be WA legal for hunting
  • Muzzleloader must function appropriately
  • Muzzleloader must be capable of taking an animal at 50y reliably

Bonus Onjectives
  • Muzzleloader should be not rear end-ugly
  • Metal finish should resist corrosion
  • Wood finish should resist elements
  • Muzzleloader should be aesthetically pleasing
  • Brass hardware to replace Zamak hardware if possible

Out of Scope
  • No scopes
  • No smokeless powder conversions
  • Not painting the stock black

Suggested Finishes
Wood Finish Suggestions
  • Natural BLO or tung finish
  • Dark stain with BLO or tung finish
  • Cherry stain with BLO or tung finish
  • Pecan stain with BLO or tung finish

Steel Finish Suggestions
  • Cold blue
  • Raw steel
  • Black nitrided
  • Parkerized
  • Parkerized with a polished oil finish
  • Laquer / Painted finish
  • Hard chrome finish
  • Electroless nickel finish

FAQ
So Miso Beno, how is this a Let's Build?

Well right now I'm still in the planning phase of this project so this is a good time to share your bad ideas, good ideas, and idea-ideas. Also, I guess I could consult you guys when I get horrendously lost.

Why the gently caress would you buy a black powder thing?
At $85 it was an impulse purchase, but I've had the itch to play around with muzzleloading hunting season for a while, but my condition appears to be resistant to modern medicine. Oh, and I have a strong dislike of in-line muzzleloaders.

Are you turning into Cyrano's Dad?
Yanno, if I have a kid and they turn out as good as Cyrano I'd be pretty proud. I mean who doesn't want their kid to be the leader of a greasy cadre of gun-loving goobers?

wheres my beer fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Nov 25, 2019

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

[This Post Left Intentionally Blank]

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




This is going to be fun.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


This looks pretty drat cool.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


I'm a fan of the aesthetics I've seen on your guns so this will be an interesting one to follow. I have zero interest in BP so I've never heard of this kit but looks like you got a good deal.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

I have a CVA Kentucky Pistol kit that I built when I was maybe 20 or so. Coincidentally I went to pick up a gun cabinet I had at my parents yesterday and it was in there!

Although the pistol reminds me of a really lovely decision I made. I bought a Model 94 30-30 from a gun shop and due to impulse problems I went back and traded it in for the stupid kit. It's neat and all but I can't really fire it at any ranges around here. I fired it once ever in my friend's backyard.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


You're going to have it threaded and suppressed, right?

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Parts Kit posted:

You're going to have it threaded and suppressed, right?

I like my dogs.

Pennywise the Frown posted:

I have a CVA Kentucky Pistol kit that I built when I was maybe 20 or so. Coincidentally I went to pick up a gun cabinet I had at my parents yesterday and it was in there!

Although the pistol reminds me of a really lovely decision I made. I bought a Model 94 30-30 from a gun shop and due to impulse problems I went back and traded it in for the stupid kit. It's neat and all but I can't really fire it at any ranges around here. I fired it once ever in my friend's backyard.



Man, you got hosed in that trade. How long did it take you to slam your kit together? Im trying to drag this out and it feels like something I can accomplish in a weekend. Except for the finished work which depends on the direction I take this build.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Miso Beno posted:

I like my dogs.


Man, you got hosed in that trade. How long did it take you to slam your kit together? Im trying to drag this out and it feels like something I can accomplish in a weekend. Except for the finished work which depends on the direction I take this build.

Yeah the gun guy told me "Please don't do this." But I was insistent.

I can't remember how long it took me since it was so long ago. I did it with my dad so it took probably 5 times longer than it should have. Maybe a week or more.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Does it get a peep sight? For hunting practicality doubling the sight radius can be really helpful.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Flatland Crusoe posted:

Does it get a peep sight? For hunting practicality doubling the sight radius can be really helpful.

I hadn't thought of peep sights until now. If you have any suggestions that'd be great, otherwise I'll start looking for options.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Miso Beno posted:

I hadn't thought of peep sights until now. If you have any suggestions that'd be great, otherwise I'll start looking for options.

It becomes likely a combination of front and rear sight parts from Williams, Lyman or NECG depending on what you want.

Soupisgood
Dec 5, 2012


Nickle plate the gun, you'll be the only person around to do it and it will resist the corrosive humidity of Washington.

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?


Why isn't a browned finish one of the options?

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Miso Beno posted:

[*]If face is blown off, project over

Wuss.

Trim that thing off at the nostrils. I bet you still get enough velocity to take an animal at 50 yards.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Soupisgood posted:

Nickle plate the gun, you'll be the only person around to do it and it will resist the corrosive humidity of Washington.

FWIW Nitride has a similar benefit only not as sexy.

McNally posted:

Why isn't a browned finish one of the options?

Because you didn't suggest it sooner.

infrared35 posted:

Wuss.

Trim that thing off at the nostrils. I bet you still get enough velocity to take an animal at 50 yards.

maybe I'll do a pistol kit next :v

wheres my beer fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Nov 25, 2019

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Soupisgood posted:

Nickle plate the gun, you'll be the only person around to do it and it will resist the corrosive humidity of Washington.

Like Jeremiah Johnson, the pornstar not the trapper.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Parts Kit posted:

You're going to have it threaded and suppressed, right?

Miso Beno posted:

I like my dogs.

Duh, you need to have it silenced, but permanently attached so it's not a firearm silencer, like on the Silencerco Maxim50. Then cerakote it black, slap some picatinny rails on it and then maybe a vertical foregrip or something too.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Craptacular posted:

Duh, you need to have it silenced, but permanently attached so it's not a firearm silencer, like on the Silencerco Maxim50. Then cerakote it black, slap some picatinny rails on it and then maybe a vertical foregrip or something too.

Yeah there's a period of time where during can construction that suppressor parts wont be attached to the gun. That's the part I'm worried about.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



I don't think it would be an issue. Possession's obviously ok, otherwise the Maxim50 wouldn't have been a thing. So the question is, can you make something that's dimensionally identical to a silencer baffle if it's not going to be used to make a silencer. I would argue "yes." Otherwise, lots of things could be argued to act as baffles if you put them inside a tube attached to a firearm's muzzle.

Either way, cerakote it black and put some rails on it.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Craptacular posted:

I don't think it would be an issue. Possession's obviously ok, otherwise the Maxim50 wouldn't have been a thing. So the question is, can you make something that's dimensionally identical to a silencer baffle if it's not going to be used to make a silencer. I would argue "yes." Otherwise, lots of things could be argued to act as baffles if you put them inside a tube attached to a firearm's muzzle.

Either way, cerakote it black and put some rails on it.

Miso Beno posted:

Out of Scope
  • No scopes
  • No smokeless powder conversions
  • Not painting the stock black

the rifle itself might get painted, but I kinda like the nitride idea since i can also get the bore nitrided to aide in corrosion resistance.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Yeah I meant the metal not the stock.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Craptacular posted:

Yeah I meant the metal not the stock.

Oh yeah Cerakoting the steel is definitely an option. I do have an airbrush setup, but I'd need to build a booth or wait for fair weather tho.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Miso Beno posted:

the rifle itself might get painted, but I kinda like the nitride idea since i can also get the bore nitrided to aide in corrosion resistance.

Do it classy and brown the barrel. My dad's built a couple that way and even he's managed to get them looking nice.

Well, he hosed up the first one he did because he forgot to plug the barrel and rusted the gently caress out of the inside. Plug your barrel with fat and cap with wax before browning.

Oh and look another new TFR thread icon.

edit: ironically an LP tag on the first actual "no seriously, look, it has a box and it's kinda neat" box thread we've had in loving forever.

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


Craptacular posted:

I don't think it would be an issue. Possession's obviously ok, otherwise the Maxim50 wouldn't have been a thing.

I really regret not getting one of those when they were blowing them out for like $400 or something.

e: paint it with tiger stripes, make a CoD muzzle loader

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

Do it classy and brown the barrel. My dad's built a couple that way and even he's managed to get them looking nice.

Well, he hosed up the first one he did because he forgot to plug the barrel and rusted the gently caress out of the inside. Plug your barrel with fat and cap with wax before browning.

Oh and look another new TFR thread icon.

edit: ironically an LP tag on the first actual "no seriously, look, it has a box and it's kinda neat" box thread we've had in loving forever.

Oh I have like four to six more box threads to knock out. It's been an expensive year of trying to capitalize on depressed market prices.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Cyrano4747 posted:

edit: ironically an LP tag on the first actual "no seriously, look, it has a box and it's kinda neat" box thread we've had in loving forever.
bitch please, my keltec was pretty neat.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


If your goal is to have it be useful hunting in the PNW duracoat/Cerakote/nitride/Teflon coat everything you can.

I drat near rusted out my blued modern muzzleloader in 36 hours of rain elk hunting Colorado this year and then the thing gets thrown in a case for a day or two while you drive home. Thatís with no corrosive Blackhorn 209 powder not even pyrodex or real black powder.

The historical muzzleloading guns can do whatever they think is period correct but they likely wonít even shoot on a rainy day let alone drive halfway across the country into a typhoon with their cosplay toys.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Flatland Crusoe posted:

l muzzleloading guns can do whatever they think is period correct but they likely wonít even shoot on a rainy day let alone drive halfway across the country into a typhoon with their cosplay toys.

My dad is way deep into trying to stay period-correct-ish. He's not exactly out there in buckskin (although frankly all it would take is a divorce and a bottle of whisky) but he likes to keep his guns pretty authentic. He's had good luck with rubbing the exposed metal down with lanolin.

He hunts in the PacNW, same general geographical area as Miso lives in, so his rifles see their fair share of rain, fog, mist, and 100 foot overcasts gently pissing on you all day.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Flatland Crusoe posted:

If your goal is to have it be useful hunting in the PNW duracoat/Cerakote/nitride/Teflon coat everything you can.

I drat near rusted out my blued modern muzzleloader in 36 hours of rain elk hunting Colorado this year and then the thing gets thrown in a case for a day or two while you drive home. Thatís with no corrosive Blackhorn 209 powder not even pyrodex or real black powder.

The historical muzzleloading guns can do whatever they think is period correct but they likely wonít even shoot on a rainy day let alone drive halfway across the country into a typhoon with their cosplay toys.

My goal is for a gun that looks reasonably traditional while being actually useful, which is why I'm leaning towards nitride. I'm also curious to see if I get any performance boost from a nitrided bore. I just *hate* how modern muzzle loaders look.

Cyrano4747 posted:

My dad is way deep into trying to stay period-correct-ish. He's not exactly out there in buckskin (although frankly all it would take is a divorce and a bottle of whisky) but he likes to keep his guns pretty authentic. He's had good luck with rubbing the exposed metal down with lanolin.

He hunts in the PacNW, same general geographical area as Miso lives in, so his rifles see their fair share of rain, fog, mist, and 100 foot overcasts gently pissing on you all day.

FWIW my primary hunting rifle is stainless because a lot of rust can happen in a 72 hour stumble around the Olympic Peninsula.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Cyrano4747 posted:

My dad is way deep into trying to stay period-correct-ish. He's not exactly out there in buckskin (although frankly all it would take is a divorce and a bottle of whisky) but he likes to keep his guns pretty authentic. He's had good luck with rubbing the exposed metal down with lanolin.

He hunts in the PacNW, same general geographical area as Miso lives in, so his rifles see their fair share of rain, fog, mist, and 100 foot overcasts gently pissing on you all day.

There is also a pretty big difference in how someone hunts versus purely their environment. A lot of my issues come back to going on out of state trips and camping for multiple consecutive days out of backpack tent versus coming back to a heated house/cabin everyday.

Itís a whole different set of issues when driving home is 20 hours not 20 minutes. Similarly how someone hunts whether that be bushwhacking thru young aspens or staying on a logging road has a pretty huge impact on how wet their gear gets.

At the end of that day I know I can keep blued/wood stocked guns in decent condition after years of waterfowling with them, but now I want something I can hunt with soaking wet until the last minute, roll home at 2 am when I need to be at work by 7 am and sort out my wet gear the following weekend if need be.

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS



Put a fishing reel on the bottom side of the stock, Couple of the fishing pole eyelets on the fore stock and the top half of a fishing pole in in the space for the ram rod. I did it with a Red Ryder bbgun and it rules. I got a pic somewhere but I cant find it atm.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Applesnots posted:

Put a fishing reel on the bottom side of the stock, Couple of the fishing pole eyelets on the fore stock and the top half of a fishing pole in in the space for the ram rod. I did it with a Red Ryder bbgun and it rules. I got a pic somewhere but I cant find it atm.

Oh I love and hate that idea. I wonder if j can do it in a way that doesn't look like rear end.

Also, I've decided to go the nitride route. I have a few days off this coming week due to Jesus so I'll try to use that time to get things going.

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS



Miso Beno posted:

Oh I love and hate that idea. I wonder if j can do it in a way that doesn't look like rear end.

Also, I've decided to go the nitride route. I have a few days off this coming week due to Jesus so I'll try to use that time to get things going.

I bet if you inlayed all the metal bits into the wood it could look pretty snazzy. Good choice on the nitride, will be following this thread.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE




There are ways to chemically age brass if you want your fittings to have a bit of patina on them. Different solutions will produce different results (though this is also dependent on the alloy content in the brass too).

Here's my T/C Hawken, which is pretty similar in layout:

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



So what was the original use of shorter flintlocks like that hawken? Horseback?

I ask because I just bought my own not a firearm and now Iím getting curious.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE




Cyrano4747 posted:

So what was the original use of shorter flintlocks like that hawken? Horseback?

I ask because I just bought my own not a firearm and now Iím getting curious.

Shorter rifles are handier in wooded environments generally and are easier to carry around than a great dirty long rifle. Somewhat easier to load too.

But long rifles are absolutely gorgeous. Like poetry written in iron, brass and walnut.

E: Hawkens with a flint lock are quite possibly anachronistic. The type is named after the gunsmiths that originated it and it seems like they produced exclusively percussion cap guns as I recall.

Fearless fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jan 24, 2020

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.


Cyrano4747 posted:

So what was the original use of shorter flintlocks like that hawken? Horseback?

I ask because I just bought my own not a firearm and now Iím getting curious.

Hawkens began to be a thing in the early 19th century. As more and more people began to go west, they wanted a larger bore (and thus a thicker barrel) to deal with bigger animals such as grizzly bears and bison, so the barrel was shortened to keep the weight the same as the longer, but slimmer, long rifles. And also they were handier on horseback.

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Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE




Beardless posted:

Hawkens began to be a thing in the early 19th century. As more and more people began to go west, they wanted a larger bore (and thus a thicker barrel) to deal with bigger animals such as grizzly bears and bison, so the barrel was shortened to keep the weight the same as the longer, but slimmer, long rifles. And also they were handier on horseback.

There's a scene in Jeremiah Johnson that addresses this-- the title character heads into the mountains with a .36 cal rifle that is basically good for squirrels and rabbits but not much else. He nearly starves before peeling a .50 cal Hawken out of the cold, dead hands of a mountaineer that died fighting a bear.

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