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the tubby guy just cranking off tweets all by his lonesome, every day more desperate than the last.
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Dec 2, 2019 12:33
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Who the gently caress is that worthless chode anyway
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Dec 2, 2019 12:34
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Milo and POTUS posted:Who the gently caress is that worthless chode anyway
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Dec 2, 2019 12:40
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they really did find the hottest take
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Dec 2, 2019 13:06
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RFC2324 posted:they really did find the hottest take Stop calling them
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Dec 2, 2019 13:55
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https://twitter.com/TheLastSavage1/status/1200247724471390208 
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Dec 2, 2019 14:33
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https://www.somethingawful.com/news/fiscally-billionaire/ "I'm Socially Liberal, Fiscally a Billionaire"
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Dec 2, 2019 14:35
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lol who the gently caress are they saying were there before beringia was above water
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Dec 2, 2019 14:36
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check your sapian privilege neanderthals are people too
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Dec 2, 2019 14:42
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:check your sapian privilege Neanderthals didn't live in the Americas. FAUXTON posted:lol who the gently caress are they saying were there before beringia was above water There's an idea promoted by certain people that all current Native Americans are descended from a second wave of Asian migration that wiped out all the members of the first wave (and therefore the European genocide of Native Americans is okay). It's like the American version of the Empty Land Myth.
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Dec 2, 2019 14:50
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Stultus Maximus posted:Neanderthals didn't live in the Americas. way to be a birther
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Dec 2, 2019 14:55
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Is that the same savage that used to have that lovely knockoff limbaugh talk show?
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Dec 2, 2019 14:57
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Stultus Maximus posted:Neanderthals didn't live in the Americas.  there's abso fuckin lutely nothing in the archaeological, anthropological, or paleological record that supports such a horseshit mythLike there's tenuous evidence that Polynesians were landing in Chile but not before the (generally accepted iirc) 12-15k bce beringia migration period. And even that hypothesis is considered closer to tinfoil than truth, mainly because of the lack of actual evidence. By tenuous I mean "they have similar words for things" which as you may guess does not really speak directly to the hypothesis. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 15:12
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The current theory is something like at least three major waves of migration in addition to multiple groups of sailors just randomly showing up from all sorts of places. There was a lot more back and forth than the traditional narrative supports. Beringia probably wasn’t even very important in the long run given how many of the migrants probably sailed along it rather than walking it. Source: I read 1491 earlier this year
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Dec 2, 2019 15:16
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FAUXTON posted:
...No The material evidence from sites in southern Chile is roughly contemporaneous to the migrations along northern routes. It's tinfoily because it doesn't suit our old narrative of people coming down the ice free corridor and the peopling of the Americas branching from there littering the ground with Clovis points as they go. There is actually a considerable amount of physical evidence for multiple pathways to the Americas (esp in the fjordlands of Patagonia), even without getting into the actually-tenuous arguments that center on exchange of agricultural plants between S. America and Africa or Oceana. My igneous petrology prof has done a lot of work on identifying obsidian tools by individual sources (lava flow/volcano by time and place) that are found in southern Chile and Argentina. That said, this second wave empty America thing is crazy nonsense that sounds like typical nazi flat Earth conspiracy bullshit
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Dec 2, 2019 15:35
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I wonder if life is easier or harder for people who are stupid enough to believe that kind of stuff sometimes
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Dec 2, 2019 15:38
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Ken Bone Comeback posted:...No Empty America nonsense goes hand-in-hand with overhunting being the primary cause of megafauna extinctions and not, like, massive climate change. Nope, it was actually the Natives’ fault the mammoths died. Somehow.
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Dec 2, 2019 15:43
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Ken Bone Comeback posted:...No poo poo I didn't know there was hard evidence, even contemporaneous with the Beringia timeline - I'd only thought they were basing the idea on something like a similar word for yams.
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Dec 2, 2019 15:43
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Here’s an article-length version of 1491. I got a lot out of the book and would recommend it to anyone else who wants a layman level overview of various myths and misunderstandings about the Americas. I need to get around to reading 1493 when I get time. Disclaimer: I’m not a historian and am only like a semester deep in my anthropology major so if anybody knows of any issues in these I’d like to hear it.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:00
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maffew buildings posted:I wonder if life is easier or harder for people who are stupid enough to believe that kind of stuff sometimes Ignorance is bliss, so these people are probably pretty happy. Then again, if they're angry, ignorant bigots, they can't be that happy.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:00
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FAUXTON posted:poo poo I didn't know there was hard evidence, even contemporaneous with the Beringia timeline - I'd only thought they were basing the idea on something like a similar word for yams. No, not at all. The Monte Verde site in Chile has hearths, wooden posts, and human footprints. Best estimates using carbon isotope place the date at about 15ka, so actually just a bit older than the oldest material markers in North America. The multiple pathways thing absolutely had been regarded as tinfoil in the past, but that was a product of how eurocentric and dogmatic the academic communities studying these questions were, even in the face of mounting evidence from colleagues in the far south of the Americas. Good reading on that topic in particular can be found in Red Earth, White Lies by Vine Deloria, Jr.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:11
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Ken Bone Comeback posted:No, not at all. The Monte Verde site in Chile has hearths, wooden posts, and human footprints. Best estimates using carbon isotope place the date at about 15ka, so actually just a bit older than the oldest material markers in North America. That's rad as hell and thanks for the book rec!
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Dec 2, 2019 16:16
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There's also a loooooot of racist poo poo to unpack in the founding myth that settlers came to north america, found just a few scattered camps of savages that they had some minor fights with and then *poof* there was a country to settle in that the previous inhabitants weren't really using so we didn't do a bad thing. While there is a massive, raging scholarly debate over the numbers that existed prior to their arrival, the actual colonization process took like 150-200-ish years and the "scattered bands of savages" myth seems to come from the invaders spreading diseases that the natives had no defense against that didn't just make a few people sick. Think closer to the range of 50-75% of everyone in the existing civilization dying off. That's the poo poo that our post-apocalypse collapse of civilization movies are built around. So yeah when the next waves of settlers came along over the course of century or so the survivors didn't have a stable civilization because we murdered them all with plagues. What a shock that the remaining communities were traumatized and acting like every hero from a zombie apocalypse movie we celebrate today while condemning them for having done it.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:28
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bird food bathtub posted:There's also a loooooot of racist poo poo to unpack in the founding myth that settlers came to north america, found just a few scattered camps of savages that they had some minor fights with and then *poof* there was a country to settle in that the previous inhabitants weren't really using so we didn't do a bad thing. I cant seem to find the article right now but basically it described the character Squanto as a survivor of a destroyed civilization who was probably PTSD as gently caress as something like 75% of his people died during his and his parents lifetimes. Then these weird loving alien people show up and hey it's Thanksgiving. Main point of the article was detailing just how well organized indian civilizations were in North America, wrt agriculture, forestry etc and how there were semi-organized groves of nuts and fruiting trees / plants everywhere that led to fertile hunting grounds as well and basically the whole Ohio valley was a huge breadbasket for the natives and once they died out in waves of diseases coming up from the initial 1492-1600 euro landings down south it left behind this very useful but now decrepit expanse for the north american colonial waves.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:33
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bird food bathtub posted:There's also a loooooot of racist poo poo to unpack in the founding myth that settlers came to north america, found just a few scattered camps of savages that they had some minor fights with and then *poof* there was a country to settle in that the previous inhabitants weren't really using so we didn't do a bad thing. Wasn't there a passage in 1491 that described settlers happening across whole areas strewn with unburied bones? E: I mean given our modern knowledge of epidemiology it should be very fuckin apparent that the Americas were not only far from empty, but populated with a dense web of complex civilizations who had enough contact with each other to spread smallpox and god knows what else from Mexico to Massachusetts. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 16:46
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Native tribes did no-poo poo land management. They knew what was up and had it figured out.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:50
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EBB posted:Native tribes did no-poo poo land management. They knew what was up and had it figured out. And now dumbass white dudes cant keep their lawn alive
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Dec 2, 2019 16:53
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:And now dumbass white dudes cant keep their lawn alive For the most part they shouldn't be trying to grow that lawn in the first place.
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Dec 2, 2019 16:54
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FAUXTON posted:For the most part they shouldn't be trying to grow that lawn in the first place. Especially not with loving drinking water of all things.
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Dec 2, 2019 17:05
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That Works posted:I cant seem to find the article right now but basically it described the character Squanto as a survivor of a destroyed civilization who was probably PTSD as gently caress as something like 75% of his people died during his and his parents lifetimes. Then these weird loving alien people show up and hey it's Thanksgiving. Pretty sure that’s 1491 since there’s a whole chapter about Squanto’s life
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Dec 2, 2019 17:24
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EBB posted:Native tribes did no-poo poo land management. They knew what was up and had it figured out. That's somewhat true, but gets expanded into this stereotype of the wise Native Americans being in harmony with Earth etc. If you want to point out some tribes that did do decent-for-the-time land management, it's important to note that not all tribes were the same. Indians who farmed were often clearcutting or burning forests along with the best of us to make farmland, which leads to fun stuff like sediment runoff and out of control erosion. This isn't to say colonists weren't awful. Just that humans are, by and large, pretty fuckin' bad for the environment, in large part because of our capacity for modification and our tenacity when poo poo goes sideways, environmentally.
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Dec 2, 2019 17:38
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Nah I'm not going full circle. I'm just echoing the above sentiment about some of them being aware of cause and effect in their actions over seasons. Crop rotation, planting stuff to attracts the right insects and animals, the basics of not loving up a subsistence society.
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Dec 2, 2019 17:55
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Internet Wizard posted:Pretty sure that’s 1491 since there’s a whole chapter about Squanto’s life Coulda been an article describing some of the book then. I hadn't read 1491 but definitely gonna do so at some point now. Seems interesting enough to put on the list.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:06
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Ken Bone Comeback posted:No, not at all. The Monte Verde site in Chile has hearths, wooden posts, and human footprints. Best estimates using carbon isotope place the date at about 15ka, so actually just a bit older than the oldest material markers in North America. I personally think what happened isn't that people crossed the atlantic and south pacific earlier than beringa. Rather, people crossing beringa did so mostly be sailing along the coasts as people have done basically as long as people have been moving around. People settled up and down the entire western coast of the Americas before they penetrated inland.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:07
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Related fact I learned somewhere- by the time the first colonists arrived in North America, disease brought by Conquistadors and other Early Explorers had destroyed an estimated 75-80% of the Native population.
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Dec 2, 2019 18:45
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That Works posted:Coulda been an article describing some of the book then. I hadn't read 1491 but definitely gonna do so at some point now. Seems interesting enough to put on the list. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/03/1491/302445/ The author published an article first before expanding it into a full book, and a sequel book 1493
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Dec 2, 2019 18:55
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Mr. Nice! posted:I personally think what happened isn't that people crossed the atlantic and south pacific earlier than beringa. Rather, people crossing beringa did so mostly be sailing along the coasts as people have done basically as long as people have been moving around. People settled up and down the entire western coast of the Americas before they penetrated inland. Your version is how the Monte Verde evidence is generally interpreted in context of the Bering/ice-free corridor/Clovis man evidence as well (at least in the 1000 level archaeology I took). The biggest problem is that boats made of reed or whatever are about as perishable as material culture gets, so it's hard to say one way or another whether the people popped across the south Pacific or down the west coast of the Americas. Edit: the key point here is that the Americas were settled in much more complex paths than the originally supposed big vector down the middle from Alaska. Either interpretation of the Monte Verde (from the north or the west) leads to this conclusion. US Berder Patrol fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 19:05
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Oh yeah, there was definitely a lot going on. The issue I have with any polynesian type settling is that the polynesians themselves hadn’t even begun exploring the south pacific when the americas were already fully settled. Sailing down the coast seems much more likely than massive ocean voyages tens of thousands of years earlier than currently known.
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Dec 2, 2019 19:57
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https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1201573372980801536?s=19 All the witch hunt fake news poo poo couldn't beat the smoking guns of a flipping wife and a bloated steam library. https://twitter.com/matthewamiller/status/1201574230858620930?s=19 facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 20:06
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facialimpediment posted:https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1201573372980801536?s=19
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Dec 2, 2019 20:10
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