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Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

The meaning of Po:

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Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020





CountryMatters posted:

Don't know if I missed something but is there a reason there would have to be an even number of participants?

I thought it was because each victim started the first trial paired with someone else, but maybe this is just an assumption I made subconsciously.

Do we have confirmation that every person had a beginning trial paired with someone else?

Edit: Also I just had a thought, but maybe somebody already said this.

If some people aren't intended to be in the game, perhaps that's the reason they might not appear on one of the percentage cards?




Goon Boots fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 16, 2020

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Goon Boots posted:

Do we have confirmation that every person had a beginning trial paired with someone else?
Every card we've got has four names. If there are any more cards, and if they also have four names, then the number would be even. There's no guarantee that they actually do, though, there could just as easily be just one or three names on it/them.

Or five! Or seven! Or nine! Or-

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 16, 2020

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


It's odd that we have repeating trials for Nao, Kanna, and Sara. But no one else did that we've seen so far.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Onmi posted:

It's odd that we have repeating trials for Nao, Kanna, and Sara. But no one else did that we've seen so far.

I guess they're the ones who brought/were +1s. Kanna's sister, Joe and Nao weren't on the four card sheet things with the percentages.

Tylana
May 5, 2011



Pillbug

Do we know if the +1s were always the ones that were released with the unscraped key? Seems weird to bias the test in favour of the person you didn't plan on taking.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Tylana posted:

Do we know if the +1s were always the ones that were released with the unscraped key? Seems weird to bias the test in favour of the person you didn't plan on taking.

Not if the test is intended to be “fair” by the arbitrary definition of the term. Unexpected/unplanned competitors might need the edge over those who have been selected properly for this thing.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


It could also be a way of seeing how much trust there is between the intended target and whoever got kidnapped along with them. Joe and Sara did their damnedest to work together given the bond between them but at least one of the other involuntary pairs didn't fare as well.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Tylana posted:

Do we know if the +1s were always the ones that were released with the unscraped key? Seems weird to bias the test in favour of the person you didn't plan on taking.

Kanna's on the cards, therefore, no.

HydroSphere
Feb 11, 2014








I've pushed her to the edge. The next one will be the last.





“N... Nao...”

“Whew... phew...”

“No more...”



“............”







“I'll get it now!! Just wait, Gin! Hang on!”

“Hey!! Ranger!!”

“Was... Was that Reko really, definitely a fake...?!”

“You're not lying, are you?!”





I looked down at the fallen Reko.



In terms of appearance, she looks absolutely real. A human killed by impalement... An ally who just wanted to live.



“Huh...?!”

“...Yes... I see... Sure enough.. she was a doll...”

“But then... Where is the real Reko...?”

“Ranger! Where's the real...”

Ranger and Safalin had already vanished.



Alice took off running. Finally, the Impression Room sank back into place.

“Gin!! Stay with us! Gin!!”





(I shouldn't shake him...! It might make the poison spread more... Then... What can I do...?)

“Gin! Open your eyes...!”

(All I can do is keep shouting...)

Gin...! Gin!!”

“Sara... Let's go find Reko. Gin will be fine with the antidote.”

“I mean...!”



“She's right, Sara... You get goin'!!”

“...!! I... understand...”

Music stops.




“Pant... pant... Alice...! Please, calm down!”

“Whoa, you're in a real hurry, huh?”

“H-How did you get here first?!”

“You wanna met Reko that badly, ya bastard?”

“...!!”



“...Ehh?”

“Ahaha... Fine... I'll let you meet her.”

“R-Really...?!”

“But first, I got a quiz for ya!”



“...H... Huh... W... What are you talking about...?!”





Huh...? What is he saying...?

“Don't be ridiculous...!”

“Stop it, stop it!! I can't believe that... I can't!!”



“Humans are all so fragile, y'know? Aren't I right, Safalin?”



With that, Safalin appeared. In her hands... was...




“...Are you kidding me...? Inconceivable... Such blatant lies...”





“Ahaha! You're scarin' me, Alice!”






“Reko...!!”




An intense... sound. A loud one... like something popping...



“Hmm... You okay?”




“Alice!!”



“Don't joke with me!! This... this...!!”





“Help...!! Please, treat him!! Safalin...!!”

“..........”




“Alice...”

Why... did this happen... As my mind went blank, I heard footsteps approach.



“R... Reko...?”






“Open your eyes!! Bro!! It's me!! It's Reko!!”

“I'm... alive...!! B... Bro...!!!”



(Don't tell me... Reko was in there from the start?!)

“Well? This is the Room of Lies!”




“Ahahahaha!!”

“That's underhanded...”

“...Eh?”

“The moment it exploded... The trap should've been over with.”

“If you'd released me right away... I could've at least told him I was alive...!!”




Music stops.




“Huhhh?”






“You think I give a poo poo?!”

Reko started running at Ranger.

“Well... That's only if you beat me anyhow...”








“What... the hell is going on...?!”

At that moment... I'm certain I couldn't have heard anything, yet... I felt like... I heard a voice calling for someone.





“Bro...!! Bro!! Can you hear me?! It's me!!”



“I'm alive!! I'm not dead!! Bro...”





“............”

A miracle... He was able to live... for just a little longer.



“I'm sure... Alice is...”

“...Yeah...”

  • If we hadn't given the Alice the tokens to buy Reko's bongos, he dies before Reko is released.







  • From here, it more or less plays out exactly the same way as in the “spare” path, the only difference is, in the scene with Gin and Q-taro, Gin calls Q-taro a chicken for not pushing the switch. Q-taro apologises, and Gin tells him it's fine, he's still alive.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






That... huh, you know, that just feels like a cheap shock death. "Whoops you died from the doll's collar exploded from me tossing the head. Not from the drop onto spikes, the head being cut off of the body, or any point between then and now."

Hell, I was expecting Nao to be pushed in with the fake doll when I saw the shot of her right in front of us, or for the fake doll to pull her in with her.

Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.



So in the end Ranger still pulls some poo poo that's against the rules, kills a player arbitrarily, and gets shot for it. Can't complain - we saved who were intending to save, and Reko and Alice got some proper closure this time, so I'd definitely call this the better of the two paths. I assume since not pushing won we're going with that as the "canon" path?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


huh

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


It's almost like we were punished for being willing to let a child die.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

So Ranger is hosed either way because:

Fake spared -> he contrives a situation to force the fake's death anyways but also hands out a knife for some reason -> a human dies through his negligence
Fake killed -> he... has a spare severed head prop we've been told are extremely time-consuming to make and blows it up? -> a human dies through his unauthorized cruelty

The closure for the dumb bongos thing isn't a point in this outcome's favor because a player might not have pursued that, but Ranger's mention the floor masters being tested too is interesting. If Keiji's inside-man theory is correct could it possibly be Sue? We know she's 1) human 2) probably not a weird pervert 3) didn't kill anyone for attacking her more than once 4) gave Sara that paper. If doing her floor earned her the trust it took to pull that off, I hope it and Alice's continued survival count towards eventually figuring Sou out.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


Both of your choices wind up in a meaningless, unrelated death. Cool. Coolcoolcool.

This is a stumble in a game with otherwise really solid writing. Although, to be extremely charitable, the point of the whole situation is "sociopaths torture innocent people in a variety of arbitrary ways, both psychologically and physically". Expecting a fair situation from a cabal of Saw types is probably asking a bit much.

EDIT
As far as actual resolutions, I like not-push better. "Q-Taro mans up and does the right thing" is better than "Alice feels loved for a few seconds" as far as lasting positive consequences.

Sailor Dave
Sep 19, 2013


tomanton posted:

So Ranger is hosed either way because:

Fake spared -> he contrives a situation to force the fake's death anyways but also hands out a knife for some reason -> a human dies through his negligence
Fake killed -> he... has a spare severed head prop we've been told are extremely time-consuming to make and blows it up? -> a human dies through his unauthorized cruelty

The closure for the dumb bongos thing isn't a point in this outcome's favor because a player might not have pursued that, but Ranger's mention the floor masters being tested too is interesting. If Keiji's inside-man theory is correct could it possibly be Sue? We know she's 1) human 2) probably not a weird pervert 3) didn't kill anyone for attacking her more than once 4) gave Sara that paper. If doing her floor earned her the trust it took to pull that off, I hope it and Alice's continued survival count towards eventually figuring Sou out.

Sue was pretty sadistic for someone acting as an inside man, even if she might have been putting on a show. Doesn't feel like she's the one.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Reko also gets the chance to reconcile with her brother and proper closure this way. Plus Gin still believes in Sara. Not positive enough for you?

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020





PMush Perfect posted:

It's almost like we were punished for being willing to let a child die.

We were?

Ghost Car
Sep 14, 2009


tomanton posted:

So Ranger is hosed either way because:

Fake spared -> he contrives a situation to force the fake's death anyways but also hands out a knife for some reason -> a human dies through his negligence
Fake killed -> he... has a spare severed head prop we've been told are extremely time-consuming to make and blows it up? -> a human dies through his unauthorized cruelty

The whole point of the scene in either route is that Ranger resents humans and at this point he's overstepped what he's supposed to do as a Floor Master and started killing humans just because he hates them and wants to see them suffer (which fucks up whatever research Gashu thinks he's doing, I guess). He knew the likely outcome when he gave the fake the knife and that was presumably what he hoped would happen--it wasn't negligence, and destroying the fake was not so much the point of the exercise as it was the excuse for it.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



In both cases Sara doesn't actually do anything - it's other characters that take action to save Gin, either Nao or Q-taro. Perhaps this is poor scenario design, since the decision you make is immediately irrelevant; you just chose which leg of the trousers of time you incidentally go down.

I feel like the not-push path is more of a direct consequence, since the Rekos squaring off against each other is a predictable outcome of letting the doll live. Alice being distressed enough by the sight of the doll dying to fall for a trap is less so, since the trap goes against the rest of the game's setup of "cruel, but technically fair". I don't think it would feel like bad writing if it wasn't tied to a choice, though.

A Bystander
Oct 10, 2012


Whoa, the people who are actively trying to kill us in terrible, awful, undignified ways aren't willing to play fair. That's hosed up.

Capfalcon
Apr 6, 2012

No Boots on the Ground,
Puny Mortals!



A Bystander posted:

Whoa, the people who are actively trying to kill us in terrible, awful, undignified ways aren't willing to play fair. That's hosed up.

Yeah, but they keep saying they're playing fair. It's worth pointing out that they're full of poo poo.

Sum Gai
Mar 23, 2013


I think the issue here is that the deaths make a lot more sense if you know that a) there's a purpose to this thing beyond pure sadism and b) Ranger hates humans and thus is ignoring that purpose. Also, c) the receptionist doll is actually important. We don't find out any of these things until Ranger gets shot in the head. So a lot of this comes out of left field, and it would've helped a lot if we'd known that Ranger envied/hated people earlier. If we'd known about that, well, this wouldn't have been a natural consequence of the choice, but it would've hung together better if it was clear Ranger was off the rails and didn't care about fair play (which the masterminds do, at least nominally).

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!


Capfalcon posted:

Yeah, but they keep saying they're playing fair. It's worth pointing out that they're full of poo poo.

Consider: the person explicitly not playing fair by creating punishments unrelated to the choices made by the players in the "game" was, themselves, punished for not "playing fair".

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

REAL TOP DOG SHIT
We Have Unlocked Woke Junpei Mode
Fuck Up Cops 2020
Beloved Forums Poster
Evolved Heightened Level Junpei
Junpei Is Not Ironic And That Is Why He Is Good

Is Safalin going to stay around?

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Sum Gai posted:

I think the issue here is that the deaths make a lot more sense if you know that a) there's a purpose to this thing beyond pure sadism and b) Ranger hates humans and thus is ignoring that purpose. Also, c) the receptionist doll is actually important. We don't find out any of these things until Ranger gets shot in the head. So a lot of this comes out of left field, and it would've helped a lot if we'd known that Ranger envied/hated people earlier. If we'd known about that, well, this wouldn't have been a natural consequence of the choice, but it would've hung together better if it was clear Ranger was off the rails and didn't care about fair play (which the masterminds do, at least nominally).

I think Ranger being particularly deranged is well enough shown with his design being that he's clearly stolen a lot of dead people's stuff. His general demeanour is a lot more vicious than Sue Miley or Salafin. He's taking delight in ways that they were more nuanced about.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I think the key point is that, regardless of which result, Rio is breaking his programming by doing this. He's not supposed to be killing anyone likely outside of the actual games themselves. This is Rio taking actions he's not meant to, hence getting killed.

Fumbles
Mar 21, 2013

Can I get a reroll?



Yeah. Pushing really does feel like it was the better route, even if there's a bullshit death that literally can't be predicted. At least with the Reko-Reko double-kill it's to be expected that trusting the fake Reko could lead to a "we don't need both" scenario so if you push the only blood actually on your hands didn't have blood. Plus one half of this family unit seems determinalistically dead, at least if you push they get some reconciliation.

wologar
Feb 11, 2014


From a story standpoint, it may be better to have Alice survive, as he claimed a while back that he had killed someone with Sou's name.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013


wologar posted:

From a story standpoint, it may be better to have Alice survive, as he claimed a while back that he had killed someone with Sou's name.

Yeah Alice is definitely one of the people I want to hear more out of. And we can't get his tokens, so.

HydroSphere
Feb 11, 2014







“Sit up straight and listen!”





“Without having a clue what was what, their First Trial began, and they cleared lots more...”




“His ex-student Nao Egokoro went into this hilarious panic over it, see. So the self-described homemaker Kai Satou made use of that to instigate her...”



“The laptop concealed proof that Kai was colluding with the organization.”




Music stops.








“And so did a fake doll that looked just like Reko! It was one huge calamity.”




“Lured by tokens, he handed the laptop over to Sou. Man, ain't double-crossing just the best?”




  • If you start 2-2 using the chapter select, you get to choose between Alice or Reko.



“Man... You guys are seriously stupid.”

“Having feelings when you're killing each other... It'll only hurt you, y'know?”

Music stops.




“Now, everyone. If your memories are all in order, allow me to invite you once again.”


NeoRonTheNeuron
Oct 14, 2012


Meta: The fact they had a selection screen like that makes it more likely that the survivor of Alice/Reko will die in Part 2. Chapter Three would be hard to pull off if there wasn't some convergence, but who knows?

I hope role swapping is explained further and is implemented well.

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020





Assuming things don't go off the rails here, and we have the main game outcome with 2 people dying, 6 people would be an awfully small cast going forward right? That is unless there's some trick with the role swapping so the sacrifice or sage doesn't come into play normally.

Considering role swapping, I am wondering how it addresses the sage and keymaster. If a someone becomes the new sage, will they know only who is currently the keymaster when the change occurred, or everyone who had the keymaster role at some point? Will be interesting to see.

Also, I wonder if the game is going to follow a pattern of 1 pre-game death and 2 main game deaths every round, assuming things stay the same going forward.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Goon Boots posted:

Assuming things don't go off the rails here, and we have the main game outcome with 2 people dying, 6 people would be an awfully small cast going forward right? That is unless there's some trick with the role swapping so the sacrifice or sage doesn't come into play normally.

Considering role swapping, I am wondering how it addresses the sage and keymaster. If a someone becomes the new sage, will they know only who is currently the keymaster when the change occurred, or everyone who had the keymaster role at some point? Will be interesting to see.

Also, I wonder if the game is going to follow a pattern of 1 pre-game death and 2 main game deaths every round, assuming things stay the same going forward.

Well, this is chapter 2 of a 3-chapter game, so it doesn't need to go that much further forward than this.

HydroSphere
Feb 11, 2014
















“Ahaha, are you mad?”

“Well, keep it up, and vote for who you hate.”

“Kill decisively so you can survive.”

“Kill the people who get in your way.”







Investigate the board.

I need to tear these all off and throw them out.

Investigate the shredder.

I need to dispose of all the documents in the shredder.





“So gloomy...”




Investigate Sou.

I'm collapsed on the floor.

Investigate laptop.

An important laptop.

(This... I remember. It's Kai's laptop that I found on the first floor.)



(It was stolen... By Miss Nao, when she...)



Investigate Sou.



“I see. That time Miss Nao attacked me...”

“Every remaining trace... all of it...”





Investigate the frying pan.

“What's this...?”






“So gloomy...”




Music stops.
















“Urgh...”

“Kanna...”

(This is... my room...)

“Don't startle me all of a sudden...!”

“Y-You're all I have left, Sou...”

“Please... don't suddenly collapse...”



“...Sorry.”



“...”

“Kanna.”

“Don't you betray me.”

“...............”

“...Okay.”

Music stops.




“................”

“Hahaha... This is getting to be fun.”

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut




Welp, the battle lines have been drawn here. Sara, Nao, and Gin are definitely a block with Keiji probably joining them VS Sou, Kanna, and Q-Taro, with Alice still on the fence. Also gently caress Q-Taro, you backstabbing piece of poo poo.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



That shredder room is familiar!




Sou is quite the mystery. But if there's one thing we can draw from that weird fever dream, he is legitimately scared of Sara.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013


Kind of want to play the whole game from Sou's (clearly paranoid and/or extremely anxious) perspective now. Where Sara is a hideous monster who friendship-no-jutsus everyone into being her pawns.

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Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020





Oh, boy. Another perspective change, and at this point?

I know the writer wouldn't do it, but it would be funny to have this turn out like Heavy Rain.

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