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Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Blaze Dragon posted:

Spiting Sara is absolutely not something Sou is against though.

Sou isn't pro spiting Sara, he's con dying to the majority vote. And when nearly every player is in a mono voting bloc controlled by Sara, that means Sara decides who lives and who dies.

So your choices are (A) Trust Sara, or (B) Break up her voting bloc and forming your own. Sou doesn't trust Sara, so he's taking the only other route available to him... influencing the most impressionable players to do what he wants.

It's that or die, really.

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Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Regallion posted:

Well, at least the solution to this one is super-easy, you just push Reko down on the spikes, because SHE IS A DOLL YOU ABSOLUTE DUMMIES.

So? They're all dolls, probably, given that we have win rates for dead players and perfect simulated AI. You gonna kill a doll to save a different doll?

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

wologar posted:

They're all dolls, aren't they?

Given that they're all dolls and they've been doing this for centuries, probably, Spare her. I still think those win rates are descriptive and not predictive.

But even if they're not all dolls, unless you've somehow solved the Chinese room argument, she has asserted that she is alive and has feelings, and we've got no reason to believe otherwise.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Oblivion4568238 posted:

The thread seems pretty set on this, but... what's your proof? Your actual, solid evidence? Ranger just confirmed that the Reko here is a doll, who was a replacement from the Room of Lies, but under your current theory, wouldn't that mean she just... replaced another doll, who did have the proper personality tweaks from Alice's murder? It just doesn't line up, if they already had an up-to-date Reko AI, they would have simply used it again for the new body.

The proof is that they have the technology to completely reproduce humans, and the resources to build the hell tower. If you can do that, why bother running tests with the originals? Combined with the win rates, it just feels more likely they're all fake, not just a few of them.

Torture twenty humans to death, nine of which didn't make it out of the first room? What a waste. The kidnappers obviously cared about Sara specifically, and she could have easily died in the first room before they learned or taught her or whatever they're up to. The whole scheme makes more sense if they're being tested repeatedly, over and over, to learn as much as possible about... I dunno. How humans act under extreme stress. Under which conditions people ally with their enemies. Where the yakuza hid all their pirate gold.

They have mental health resources available so the subjects complete as many tests as possible, if the contestants weren't replaceable the first room wouldn't have killed so many of them.

Oblivion4568238 posted:

Unless you'd like to accuse Ranger of lying about not being able to lie.

Who's unable to lie? About "important stuff"? C'mon.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

LawrenceFriday posted:

<<<Some hot nonsense>>>

Aww, c'mon.

None of that, please.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Congrats, you let a less emotionally developed version of someone encounter the real one, and they did the obvious thing of trying to kill the real one. Guess the spare crowd's reasoning of Q-taro and Gin can work things out between themselves was right though. A shame about the other, very obvious, downsides of keeping the doll Reko alive.

Yes, the very real, inescapable downside of the murder doll promptly forcing another murder minutes after the first one, and then being killed by their father, a researcher into negative emotions who is also a doll. I mean, who couldn't see that coming? I learned that poo poo in introduction to professional ethics in engineering, and am ashamed that I forgot about it.

Tenebrais posted:

Well, I guess that puts to bed the idea that the main characters are dolls. At least dolls in the same form that the established dolls are.

I'm tripling down. Even the people running the scenario are dolls.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

HydroSphere posted:

=


Nao Egokoro,
Age: 19
Gender: Female
Height: 162cm (5'4") Weight: 55kg (121lb)
Has little experience in sports and the like, limited to P.E. classes in compulsory education. Even so, her reflexes are poor. Perhaps due to her inclination toward art, she has very good eyesight. Her ability to remember a scene for a long time or recognize the individual flaps of a birdís wings is within reason, yet superb. Since much of this comes from practice, about the only thing that can be called a born talent, it is thought, is her passionate love for art. No other notable characteristics, although she has a large bust.

(That's just flat-out sexual harassment...)

Tore out the last line and threw it away.

(Seems that's it.)



Born to a middle-class, extremely average family. Both parents are in good health. Having good relations with them, her situation is common yet happy. The father has been an office worker for 20 years. The mother has carried various jobs. No siblings. The father is under his wifeís thumb. When they fight, it appears Nao Egokoro often defends her father to resolve the conflict.

This is the first thing I've seen that makes me think they might not all be robots.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Trust, because it would be wild if it actually killed you and I kind of hope it goes that far.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

If Sou's the sacrifice, he's gonna use his two votes on Sara.

He told everyone not to vote for Sara, so if she gets two votes, he'll have successfully painted her as the sacrifice. All this assumes he'll get two votes anyway, but that seems likely--he's very hatable.

I think the best defense against this attack is to have Sara Vote for Herself. This would mean she gets three votes if Sou's the sacrifice, and only one if he's not. This would prove that someone besides Sara voted for her--after Sou instructed everyone not to, then unless someone else claims they voted for Sara the three votes for her is proof that Sou was lying when he instructed everyone not to vote for her.

Course, deep strategy isn't really something you can pull off in a narrative game? But nevertheless.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Magic Fanatic posted:

If Sou's point was to paint her as the Sacrifice, then... He succeeds and gets her into the last four, and... Then what? No one will vote for her, so she'll be in the safest position imaginable - a Commoner with guaranteed no votes.

By role claiming himself as the Sacrifice at the start, that means he's trying to divert votes away from himself as well, so there's one of two explanations here. Either 1) he's trying to protect everyone else from the effects of it (extremely unlikely, given what we know of how he behaves), or 2) it was an outright lie to protect himself from being voted for. So what I'd like to purpose here is that neither Q-Taro nor Sou are the Sacrifice, meaning that Sou's a safe vote for who to kill at the end. As for who's the Sage... No one's spoken up yet, so it's hard to say aside from those two also definitely not being the Sage, as if they were, then they would have already lied while being the Sage.

By claiming the role of sacrifice immediately, and then pinning it on Sara, he'd paint himself as a treacherous dirtbag while also trying to trick everyone else into not voting for him. Then in the final round, he can collect a few random votes from people upset at him for constantly screwing with everyone, and two votes when he votes for himself, and survive as the sacrifice. A plan that came together after his attempt to escape physically ended in earthslide.

With a small group of people almost all of which have incentive to tell the truth, it's very hard to hide who the sacrifice is. If he can paint Sara as the sacrifice by voting for her after getting everyone else not to, so she has exactly two votes, then it's his word against hers as to which of the two the sacrifice is, and all the sage and keymaster stuff stops mattering. Then he just needs to get people to hate him and vote to kill him--maybe by leading investigations into children and betraying his allies during the discussion period?

Sou's dirtbaggery, combined with his insistence that no one vote for Sara, makes sense if he's trying to separate her from the others to conceal his own role card.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Kanna, because I don't want to respond to Sou finally being honest with us by killing him.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

B seems sensible, and it fits in the bbcode nicely.

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Haifisch posted:

If they did do that, it's a lot of work for no good reason. Oh no, a normal phase also happens to be a meme phase that nobody will think about a year or two from now. :ohdear:

The majority of their audience is going to read it now, not a year or two from now. Art isn't pure and making minor changes to keep people from tittering during your extremely serious murder game is a good call.

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Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Blaze Dragon posted:

I kind of want to see the simulation with the completely heartless Sara, not gonna lie. If only to see the sheer contrast with our heroine here.

You see this a lot in real world simulations of human behavior, too. Especially economic ones... the researchers can't see how their own biases creep into their work, and wind up saying that the models are correct, but the people failing to match those models are behaving irrationally.

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