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Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Presumably, Mishima's three votes were himself, Nao, and Joe.

The way Joe got angry at the others and demanded to know who voted for Mishima back then is arguably a bit suspicious in light of this -- it certainly carried the implication that he wasn't one of them, after all.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything, though. Probably Joe was just dealing with the guilt by being a dick. Or, y'know, Sou is lying now.

Joe does seem to like casting shade on others without a lot of justification though. ("Do you think Keiji's really a cop?" "I'm pretty sure someone in that group is working with the kidnappers..." etc.)

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Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Ignatius M. Meen posted:

Nah, I don't buy this. The supposed doll claimed this was a practice vote that didn't mean anything and the evidence provided by the game masters to the contrary was completely unknown until after the vote; the default reading of anyone who cast a vote for someone besides themselves should be being naive, not malicious outside some solid evidence to the contrary. Which, come to think of it, being the first to imply someone else had malicious intent in a total mystery vote is pretty solid evidence for having malicious intent yourself even if it's just after the fact to save your hide later.

Miley never once claimed that the vote didn't mean anything.

She said "as a test, try voting for whoever!" after explaining that voting would have dire consequences. "Let us test the functionality with some actual use."

She really never claimed or even actually implied the vote meant nothing. Everyone assumed. Hiding the rules on the back of the door was a horrid thing to do, but everyone could have just stopped and talked to each other for like ten seconds instead of immediately voting. Or just asked Miley for details (she might have told the truth, since the kidnappers are making a show of following rules).

She's still evil as hell for being involved in any of this manipulative murder poo poo, but she didn't lie or even strongly hint at an untruth. Nobody asked a single question before voting, after being handed the tablet.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Joe actually might not be the Sage.

It's entirely possible he was just thinking that "if Sara dies, there won't be anyone left that most of us trust, and then we're all hosed eventually," rather than knowing "she's the Keymaster."

It's a bit of a stretch but not a huge one -- Sara really did build up a lot of trust early on without especially trying to (i.e. by being the protagonist).

(Either way, calling him out as the Sage ICly would be a terrible move by all logic. What the game expects from its players is...less obvious. It might not be a sensible course of action, but there might still be a bad ending for not doing it because gently caress if I know.)

As for Sou...I dunno. It's one idea, but if I were the Sacrifice, I wouldn't claim Keymaster. There are better lies to tell if you want negative attention focused your way -- if you need everyone to vote you dead, you can't risk them thinking "crap, if he's really the Keymaster we're all hosed."

But then, maybe if he genuinely anticipated everyone (besides Alice I guess) mistrusting him, he thought he could thread that needle. It's not exactly a great plan, but 1) people make mistakes frequently, and 2) this is essentially an anime game, and that would be nowhere near the most complicated thing a "smart" anime character anticipated somehow.

I am not sure what the deal is, but I can't expect an rear end in a top hat like him will snuff it so quickly. Although it would be nice.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Vote Kai because if he lives and starts giving out "information" he might actually gently caress this group harder than Sou is already loving it.

I admit I will take more satisfaction in Sou's death, though, which is just as well given how this thread is going.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


God. I wanted to yell when Sara started clicking the button, because it was obvious what was going on, but of course Sara wouldn't think straight while she's panicking and watching her best friend die.

Out of curiosity, does anything different happen if you announce out loud that Joe is the Sage back when Sara mistakenly concludes that he is? I'm assuming not (I imagine Sou would still come up with the whole distraction where he asks what the Keymaster card looks like etc.), but it would be amusing if you could make the "dumb" decision and end the game right there.

...Not that it would be a good ending. Sara and Joe are the kind of people who would feel wretched for the rest of their lives if they actually did manage to surf to freedom on the blood of everyone else in the room.

I do hope we get to find out who decided to vote Sou for being a dick instead of voting Kai for a certain survival.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Kai may be a creep and god only knows what other involvement he had with the kidnappers, but the further we get into this nightmarish poo poo the more I will always respect him for smacking Miley with the frying pan.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


They really made the creepy stalker hard to dislike, didn't they?

...Also, it's kind of interesting how Miley doesn't actually punish people for using violence against her. Neither Kai nor Q-taro suffered any consequences. But I guess creepy death games are more entertaining to the villain than just offing people for breaking the rules.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


The last thing in the world I want is to defend Sou, but...honestly, maybe the guy just didn't want to die.

I mean, if the gun was pointed at you, would you perhaps consider throwing someone else (who you didn't know at all) under the bus to save your rear end?

It's lovely as hell, but in a moment of desperation, you might do the wrong thing.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


I'm sort of amazed that Kanna's bucket hat...actually is a bucket that's she's apparently wearing as a memento. Girl's got issues.

...I mean, so does everyone else here. I guess she's no worse off than Gin.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


I realize that Sara is not in the best mental state right now, but how could she possibly think that what's on that phone is actually a sincere message from Kanna's sister?

Even if she was angry enough to say that kind of poo poo just before she died, I hardly think she'd have had time to type it all out (and change the background of her Notes app to an inexplicable dark red color) while she was stuck in a deathtrap.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Blaze Dragon posted:

No reason not to trust in Nao here. I doubt we'll get much out of Q-Taro.

Also I'm genuinely worried but also curious about what Safalin was talking about, what can the dolls do that would help Sara's mental state?

Based on context and phrasing, it sounds like the "device" she was talking about is something other than the dolls.

It's probably something even more disturbing and creepy. I mean, the very notion of a device that can "heal mental wounds" is pretty creepy even if the thing somehow works properly and was made by a well-intentioned person (which Safalin almost certainly isn't).

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Jadecore posted:

I mean, Sue Miley sneaking into Sara's room and handing her secret bonus info could also easily be seen as unfair. As could, like, putting a 12 year old in a death game to compete with a pro baseball player. Or hiding a rules explanation somewhere anyone is unlikely to look, then when explaining things in person failing to mention a key loophole.

The general gist of this game has never really been "things are going to be fair", even beyond the knowledge gap aspect. It's more... trying to combat the unfairness as much as possible and potentially subvert it. Just in this update, if you believe Rio Ranger, he didn't actually expect the entire cast to survive the attraction and clear chip subgame to get to this point.

The closest thing this game is getting to fairness is that "victory is technically possible." (At least outside the Main Game, where at least two people die no matter what.)

Hide the instructions, hide the minigame needed for everyone to bank 10 Clear Chips, but the possibility seems to always exist for everyone to survive until the Main Game. That's not any normal person's definition of "fairness," but the kind of rear end in a top hat who operates a death game probably thinks it's hilarious.


Junpei posted:

I do remember that Ranger straight up said that, if all goes well, everyone can survive this Main Game.

Did he*? I thought what he said what that, if everyone does well, they can all survive until the Main Game.

"Unlike in the Main Game, if you do well, then no one will have to die!"

I'm pretty sure the Main Game is still gonna be the Main Game.

*I only just noticed, looking back through his intro, that Ranger is apparently a guy. It's a bit hard to tell. That's anime for you.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Reko pre-Room of Lies bled, which is something that we assume dolls can't do. Presumably, the AIs played against eachother in the past?

What evidence do we have that dolls can't bleed? I mean, Miley and Safalin certainly did.

Given the insane technology level we've already seen with AIs and such, "dolls" could well just be flesh-and-blood clones with implanted memories and personalities.

Or have we seen anyone actually get injured and not bleed when they should have?


PMush Perfect posted:

“SARA IS UP THERE WITH A SLINGSHOT TAKING POTSHOTS AT GIN AND ALSO I SAW HER CARD SHE’S THE SACRIFICE.”

I don't think Sou would want to convince the others that Sara was the Sacrifice unless it was true. Assuming, that is, that he actually wants her to die. (At this point, I am extremely reluctant to draw conclusions about what Sou really wants. His behavior is bizarre enough that we must be missing something.)

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


PlasticAutomaton posted:

Okay NOW we can throw the doll Reko in.

I cannot imagine that Sara and Nao, of all people, would have it in them to push someone that looks and sounds just like Reko (even if they're confident it's a fake) into a spiked pit.

I doubt those two could push someone they genuinely hated (e.g. Sou).

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Spare her. Fake Reko is still a person in every sense that matters.

Frankly, I'm shocked that Sara of all people can actually choose to push her.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


The part I find odd is...why does Safalin try so hard to convince Sara not to keep using the machine, if she's so happy to have Sara become her hopeless machine addict minion?

I guess maybe the Floor Masters are required to warn the "players" about certain types of danger? We definitely don't know all of the rules they're following yet, aside from "can't outright lie about important stuff" and possibly "can only kill the 'players' under certain circumstances" (Miley would almost certainly have killed Kai and Q-taro for mishandling her if she could have).

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


PlasticAutomaton posted:

Oh hell with all the tokens Q-Taro got on his attempt to escape, this is probably the worst possible case scenario now that he's working with Sou. That pretty much lets the little poo poo dictate the entire main game before it even starts.

He doesn't have perfect information. He can still gently caress up, or someone who saves their tokens until the last minute could screw him after he's spent his tokens arranging things.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


It's a lot like One Night Werewolf. No matter what you think you know, there could always have been one more swap that changes everything. (The one big difference is that everyone does at least know their own final role.)

I mean, aside from Q-Taro with 200 and Gin with nothing, do we even know who has how many tokens? Any chance someone (I.e. Sou) looted Reko's body? (Or is that against the rules?)

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Lord_Magmar posted:

He could have been the Sage or otherwise known the identity of the Keymaster and guessed that Sara had the Commoner role. But yeah he seems to be a good lad so far.

Wait. Does the current Sage's tablet constantly tell them the current Keymaster even during the trading phase? I had been thinking the Sage wouldn't get their "divination" until the trading phase was over and all the roles were locked in, but it would certainly be an interesting twist if they had the current info all along.

Of course, since this group seems to have gotten the idea in their heads that the Sage is the safest person to axe, maybe nobody would want to hold onto that card even so.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Yeah, I have trouble imagining a group of six people who are decent, trusting, trustworthy, and well-adjusted enough to all work together...all agreeing that the other two people in the room should be killed.

Imagine someone actually suggesting to you "Hey, let's form a voting bloc and make sure those two assholes die instead of us."

It seems pretty implausible, especially for a group of people who barely know each other.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


So, Gashu made a point of clarifying what happens if there's a tie and the Keymaster and/or Sacrifice are in the "winning" pair, but what if there's a tie and neither is among them? Is there just a bonus death (i.e. both first place "winners" plus the Sacrifice)?

Anyway, I'm guessing the "lost" tablet is Sou's -- maybe he damaged his original in the process of whatever unrealistic hacking he did. Or something like that.

Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


MarquiseMindfang posted:

Oh god if Kanna betrayed Sou like that... I don't think she has it in her, though, she'd trade for her own card if anyone's. Kanna wouldn't kill someone.

I'd tend to agree, but I didn't think Kanna had it in her to do what she's already done either.

And if she gets herself killed, she won't be able to protect her big sister anymore.

(At this rate, I'm expecting to see Gin outsmart everyone in the third Main Game. Everyone's just full of surprises.)

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Jefepato
Mar 11, 2009

This?! This is a glorious dance! That has been passed down! In my family for generations!


Tenebrais posted:

Jeez Nao, she saved your life, she didn't propose!

Honestly, killing half a dozen other people just to save one person's life seems like a far deeper commitment than the average marriage proposal.

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