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Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Keiji seems like a good dude and has shown to be a good voice of reason so far. Cop, former cop, he hasn't really given us a lot of reason to distrust him.

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Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Nah, I don't buy this. The supposed doll claimed this was a practice vote that didn't mean anything and the evidence provided by the game masters to the contrary was completely unknown until after the vote; the default reading of anyone who cast a vote for someone besides themselves should be being naive, not malicious outside some solid evidence to the contrary. Which, come to think of it, being the first to imply someone else had malicious intent in a total mystery vote is pretty solid evidence for having malicious intent yourself even if it's just after the fact to save your hide later.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Yeah, nobody reasonable would be thinking straight after someone else who wasn't being compliant was seemingly almost immediately killed for it. She may not have said discussion was forbidden but the mood after threatening Joe and then brushing that off as a joke would almost certainly be "let's just do what she says so she doesn't kill someone for real" rather than "maybe we should think about this some" without something else blindingly obvious to point to, like the notice on the door.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



I notice these rules don't address what happens if two people tie, which, since the total number of votes is 12 is entirely possible. It might not actually be a good idea to try this, but maybe...

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Tylana posted:

Miley believes there are 11 living players of which 5 with be picked in the pre-lims, according to the post.

EDIT : I guess two people can still tie. I'm thinking the prize can be shared. The mastermind does not seem to mind extra and early deaths.

11 players, one of whom (Sacrifice) gets 2 votes, therefore 10 + 2 makes 12 votes that could hypothetically go 6-6. Sharing the prize result between the choices would be a clever dodge though.

e: What happens if either the Keymaster or Sacrifice are one of the two choices and the other is a Commoner? Just whatever results in the most deaths?

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Feb 4, 2020

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



A Sacrifice who wants to survive is going to be looking for somebody they can get at least within one vote of to make use of their two votes. With those laptop messages, Sou managed to get three other people hooked as looking suspicious, which if that gets evenly distributed between them and Sou leaves 3/2/2/2 in some order; easy pickings for a Sacrifice to turn into 5/2/2/2 or 3/2/2/4 for their win. Commoners, Sages, and Keymasters don't benefit from ties because they can't be sure to break them, thus there's no reason for them to do what Sou's been doing, but for a Sacrifice ties are excellent.

e: Hell, it's not impossible that he might have voted once for Kanna and once for himself. That comment that anyone who got two votes that round might be the Sacrifice is absolutely going to have effects on people's thoughts going forward, and while everyone else publicly figured she shouldn't be voted for, she's probably not going to vote for anyone but herself. Split the vote 5 ways even a little and those two Sacrifice votes very likely beat whatever else happens.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Feb 14, 2020

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Sou, even though he probably won't get picked he still deserves to get #2 at least.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Goddamn, that was cruel. We got a ways to go but I hope there's some kind of comeuppance at the end of this for the kidnappers.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Those info cards might have attraction related statistics on them so that the best teams can be formed for each attraction. May not be strictly necessary to get them, but based on what we saw available in the shop there's enough face coins to afford everything as long as at least 580 coins are exchanged. 520 coins if they don't have to buy any clear chips.

That being said, we didn't see anything about the ticket to the surface, and that's probably going to be something like 400/500 coins; meaning the group can't afford it and everything else in the shop possibly needed to survive to the next Main Game. Not that it would necessarily be hard to squash any single person who didn't care about screwing over the group for their own gain with vigilance and agreed upon rules by everyone else, but more than that and somebody's going to find a way to beat/trick/pickpocket enough coins together for the ticket. I'm half-expecting this 'ticket to the surface' to just be an ironic death sentence to kick everyone in the pants even more than just being screwed over, though.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



I'm not surprised Sou was aware of the Sacrifice card but intentionally hoarding cards to force it onto Joe bumps his involvement from criminal negligence to premeditated. While beating his rear end into the foundation would be satisfying, the group might also get the same results without having to waste time searching up and down for him by just asking this floor's GMs whether the rule for not revealing your card before the MG was a dummy rule or not because of this breach going unpunished. It'd risk getting Kanna killed too, but then we don't really know whether she's making this up to save herself either, or if somebody else is manipulating her. And, of course, if the dolls just laugh and say that the rule is real from now on but that only Miley could have killed him for breaking the rules on Floor 2, they'll have to search up and down anyway, but at least they'll have tried the easiest way to get the bastard killed first.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Jefepato posted:

The last thing in the world I want is to defend Sou, but...honestly, maybe the guy just didn't want to die.

I mean, if the gun was pointed at you, would you perhaps consider throwing someone else (who you didn't know at all) under the bus to save your rear end?

It's lovely as hell, but in a moment of desperation, you might do the wrong thing.

I probably would just not pick up the Sacrifice card if I already had one, rather than control it and keep two Commoner cards handy to make somebody in my debt and let somebody else pick up the death sentence. I might, might be tempted to exchange the Sacrifice card for a Commoner if I found the Sacrifice first, but I honestly think I'd talk myself out of that; sure, I'll live, maybe I won't even be found out, but what's the point if I can't live with my actions afterwards? I'd end up seeing that person's face in my nightmares for the rest of my life because of my active role in their death. Better to let the rest of the group go on, thanks.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



I guess talk to Alice if we can only make one deal here.

As for Sou, the dolls up to now as far as we know have been happy to largely sit back and let the participants gently caress each other up, so it's not real plausible that either they attacked him or replaced him on Floor 2 for the Main Game (and everyone else seems to have largely accounted for each other's whereabouts on Floor 3). Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Insertnamehere31 posted:

So Keiji's lying about being first on the scene. I'm betting he saw Nao do it and is covering for her.

Yeah, that's almost definitely what happened. Nao's taking this too well to not be involved. Probably healthier for her this way, really.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Great, Reko's either dead or been switched with a doll, and Sara might end up none the wiser if we don't talk to Nao. Bongos might be a stronger way to figure out this Reko isn't the one we went into that attraction with, though, so negotiate with Alice.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Well, uh... that seems kinda like a believable reaction and didn't really clear up anything.

I hope we didn't just screw ourselves.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Keiji hands down. We gotta talk about this with him.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



I don't remember if Sara gave 30 to Keiji, but if she did this is definitely a ploy to get Sara's info and there's no telling if that's going to really be good for her or not with the shady act here. The sole reason I can think of to go through with the trade is to show Sara will trust that Keiji and Q-taro are acting weird about this for a good reason... which is really shaky and would just as likely be seen as just plain being gullible. If there was a way to talk this out instead of just trade/decline, then all three people could get the info at once rather than the misunderstandings we've already had issues with which might be guaranteed. Worst case of them getting it could be Sou stealing the information and misrepresenting everything to turn everyone against Sara. But again, this will implicitly show Sara doesn't trust at least Q-taro, so we might be stuck choosing the lesser of two evils here. No idea what the right answer here is!

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



You know, I think taking Safalin up on her offer might be a good idea right before that last hallucination happened. Or whenever we can reverse time back to so Sara avoids snapping.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Sou is missing from the cards we got. Might not mean anything, or the missing card might have the four actual top survivors with Sou among them. Assuming these stats are about who survives the whole game on average, anyway.

Also, Gin's 1.3% chance. :smith: Probably gonna be Sou turning around that collar thing and Gin refusing to take off his suit...

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Nah, that's bound to end poorly when the target either moves too fast or too slow and Gin/Q-Taro get shot anyway.

That Web of Happiness Sara picked up seems like it should be good for something, figuring out what to do with it might be the key.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



If Sara doesn't push Fakeo and the real Reko comes back to find Gin died so her past personality doll could be spared, she'll never forgive Sara and probably everyone else will be harder pressed to support Sara too in the upcoming Main Game. We can't depend on Q-Taro willingly taking the other four shots either even if he can withstand them all. It sucks that it's her or Gin, but Gin's death will hit everyone harder. Push her.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



It would have been better if Gin had died AND Fakeo killed Reko, would have been a total punch to people who would choose a doll designed to gently caress with the players over a fellow child player instead of ending up a copout on the trolley problem part. But the 'choose the Reko you want to keep around' result was totally predictable, along with Fakeo's reaction.

That said, if the reason Gin survives this is so that the branches have the same number of living players in the Main Game, that means that either Reko or Gin dies in the push branch, which puts me in the "this plot design and choice kinda sucks here" camp.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Veryslightlymad posted:

Not only did we make an ethically correct decision, but we inspired Q-Taro to make an ethically correct decision, which he otherwise wouldn't.

And all we lost was a person without forgiveness in their heart. Probably the best outcome, really.

No, the fake Reko was the one who smashed the bongos. We did the Room of Lies before helping Alice out, remember? So the only person assuredly without forgiveness in their heart was the person people opted to save.

And no, we did not inspire Q-Taro to do anything. Gin's mention of his parents was the only thing that actually got Q-Taro to put something besides keeping himself safe first. Sure, this is good development for him which wouldn't have happened if Sara stepped in, but Gin can't trust her now and the real Reko is dead so Alice can't even know whether he might have been able to reconcile.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Apr 14, 2020

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



The seconds decision in favor of pushing is child > adult (who is a less emotionally developed copy of one of the players) and believing Q-Taro can't be relied on to lift a finger in Gin's favor. I don't think that's really unrealistic either.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



If there's a swerve based on the spike trap weight, it's probably to force the target to switch positions... without taking away Q-Taro's ability to press his button to do the same thing. Which he then does immediately, thereby killing Gin.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Reko also gets the chance to reconcile with her brother and proper closure this way. Plus Gin still believes in Sara. Not positive enough for you?

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Wouldn't it make more sense for her to end up with the Sage role? Give her the Sacrifice role and her bloc could be convinced to vote for her so that at least one of them gets to go home, but if she's the Sage it goes like last time with Kai where she's the safe vote to die. At least if you're going at this like Sou I presume.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



That person seems like she might have been part of the reason he's an ex-detective. Not that this totally excuses just sitting back and watching someone get killed, but I'd bet it wouldn't affect how he's going to deal with anyone else.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



He was probably banking on the laptop to fully implicate Sara, so only part of this would be needed, but when that didn't work he got this set up. I'd bet that if she trades back, she gets the Sage card, assuming she even has the tokens to make one trade.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Junpei posted:

You know, I still don't get why Sou is so (ba-dum-tish) afraid of Sara for.

Is he just paranoid? Is he fundamentally mentally disturbed enough that he thinks that all people are just like him and cruel and callous?

There's been a few implications that he saw (and ripped up) the cards that Gin found and Sara was given in whole later, showing her with a 15+% chance to survive and him (as Shin) with 0%. Seeing some high school girl rated higher than a boxer and ex-detective would definitely shake the hell out of someone who's naturally bad at people and normal social survival.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Gin is such a good kid. :unsmith:

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



No way is it going to be this easy, even besides the meta-knowledge that the devs are still working to finish the game. They might not be caught but that exit's not going to just let them out somewhere in Tokyo or whatever at the very least.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Trust the others.

Nice way for this to go the direction we saw coming. The rule about a 24 hour retry is probably Sara's best bet at this point, though.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



I believe in Keiji, even if this was exactly as bad as it looks. Sou is just being Sou with this bit, Keiji needed to explain himself here eventually anyway. Q-Taro pulling a fast one on claiming the video was faked is the real poo poo behavior here, guess without conclusive peer pressure riding on him he'll always default to looking out for #1.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



That first link is interesting because Safalin made herself bleed to show the salve was safe, so either she's not actually a doll or there are dolls that can bleed.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



tomanton posted:

There was like a ton of new and actually good music in this one.

The new tracks are really good, yeah, though I do generally like the music we've had so far.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



For as much an rear end in a top hat as he's been, and how much I've disliked his way of playing, and how terrible this choice is, Kanna is right. Shin is useful, and he can work together with people and be worth trusting (only after pushing the right buttons, but that's the same boat Q-Taro is in), and he's also driven the hell out of the Main Games so far by playing designated antagonist. Kanna doesn't really have that same level of motivated autonomy for anything other than dying with a purpose, and... as much as this hurts, this is as good a one as any to keep everyone else going. Voting Kanna.

e: I'm changing my vote, because Shin is wanting to die to save Kanna. During the game with Kai, he made the appeal to vote for the Sage because it was the logical choice, because it was safe, and people went with it. Now he's invested at least in Kanna; he's making the emotional appeal that he should die because he's the bad guy, because people hated him. If Kanna dies, all the care he had for trying to help everyone escape this place will probably die with her, whereas she'll still be open to sacrificing herself if nobody finds a way to escape before ending up in the next Main Game. Voting Shin.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 12, 2020

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



wologar posted:

Nao is the real answer here. Just get out of this miserable death game. Shame it's not an option.

It's a real option we'll see next update, just not an option that lets the game continue. I don't really think either Nao or Sara will handle the guilt of basically killing everybody else to save themselves all that well, though.

e: Had a thought about the comment upthread that it feels like nothing was gained from finding out Gashu's meddling with the game because he just killed himself. It's true that the game continued because Safalin jumped in, but what would happen if all the floor masters had provably meddled with the game and there wasn't anyone left to administrate the Main Game after everyone had all shot themselves (or there wasn't anyone left to kill the remaining meddlers)? I bet if anything this is the real way for as many people as possible to get the 24 hour escape chance without having to keep going along with this.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 12, 2020

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



In the end he couldn't escape his better nature. It's tragic and horrible that he gets repaid this way for it, but that's death games for you. :smith:

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Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...



Blaze Dragon posted:

Yeah, going for this, I need to see where these two are going.

Also I'm guessing the "memory curse" scene would be identical if you lost someone but with a lower number, only then the meaning changes drastically. That's really creepy.

Arguably this is equally creepy or creepier if you killed boat girl or didn't give the injured guy enough food. The way Mishima acted in the alt timeline where he killed boat girl seemed odd at the time and this is an excellent explanation of why he acted like nothing just happened and like the girl hadn't been there at all.

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