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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Sou is a mess, but I don't think he's actually a bad guy. He's probably just the most terrified of dying out of all of them. I have a much lower opinion of Q-taro, since he ostensibly aligns himself with the good guys but doesn't... do anything? At least Sou actively protects himself.

Elfface posted:

It's to torture Sara. At some point she'll have to bring up the possibility that the phone was tampered with, and reveal to Kanna that she knows the message is fake AND what the original was.

I wouldn't call it torture, rather, just leverage during the Main Game. Creating doubt and sowing some mistrust towards Sara, while doing an apparent good deed could push votes away from him and towards her, particularly from Kanna, Alice and Q-taro. Reko's probably going to be stuck focusing on Alice, while Keiji, Gin and Nao remain loyal. Even ignoring other questions at hand, Main Game already looks like it's gonna be quite interesting.

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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Mystic Mongol posted:

So? They're all dolls, probably, given that we have win rates for dead players and perfect simulated AI. You gonna kill a doll to save a different doll?

Reko pre-Room of Lies bled, which is something that we assume dolls can't do. Presumably, the AIs played against eachother in the past?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




We have to kill Doll Reko. There are two Rekos, and only one Gin. She might be basically human, but there's still a great chance the actual human is alive. The floor masters don't seem to arbitrarily kill without making it in some way our fault, so I wouldn't be surprised if Nao ends up tackling her down into the pit. Which means the vote is probably between keeping Nao or Original Reko. I also don't foresee Doll Reko surviving either way.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Neddy Seagoon posted:

I think that's the trap though; they go on about trusting a Doll of Reko, made by their captors, because it looks and acts relatively like her. What are the odds they have a remote override, or she has secondary programming that will backstab the group later BECAUSE they trusted the doll made by their captors?

Exactly. It's a bloody hard choice, because it's both moral dilemma and potential trap, as well as the danger to others. I'd make the decision relatively quickly in the moment, but actually having time to think on it makes it quite rough. Regardless, I think they're going to be pushing morality plays and paranoia with dolls even further. Lets hope that unlike Battlestar Galactica, this sticks the landing.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Toalpaz posted:

I cannot believe that through our inaction we are dooming a small child to a painful death and possibly the death of the real reko.

But you see, the doll is indistinguishable from a human, and the bad guys are surely going to respect that as well as allowing the real Reko to live.

Lets also not forget that the tell that she was a robot was "is still lovely to Alice"

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




NeoRonTheNeuron posted:

Why is it assumed that Sara is the only one with the agency to save Gin by pushing fake Reko?

because it is a videogame and this is a player choice

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




NeoRonTheNeuron posted:

Right, and if you assume this, the moral debate evaporates, so voting either way is acceptable.

Well, if the moral debate evaporates, then the argument becomes simpler. We unlock the ability to kill doll Reko by being able to reveal that she is a doll. Sparing her is equal to failing to do that. This means sparing her is equal to the failure state of the argument section. Ergo, to spare is to fail.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Blaze Dragon posted:

Yeah, uh...I don't feel my choice mattered here if choosing to save someone means that someone dies anyways, and takes someone with her too. Feels kind of cheap in all honesty.

Congrats, you let a less emotionally developed version of someone encounter the real one, and they did the obvious thing of trying to kill the real one. Guess the spare crowd's reasoning of Q-taro and Gin can work things out between themselves was right though. A shame about the other, very obvious, downsides of keeping the doll Reko alive.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Oh yeah, somebody else definitely dies. But it's probably going to be Alice. If this route is there to twist the knife into Alice, the other one will twist the knife into Reko.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Falconer posted:

Also worth noting is that Reko weighs more than Gin so, assuming that Faeko weighs about the same as Reko, shoving Faeko wouldn't balance the scales when she lands on the spikes. Did Ranger mention what happens if the amount on the LED is overshot?

They're big into tricking or distracting rather than setting up impossible games like, exactly match the weight of somebody with no means of removing weight from the scale. They'dve totally thrown in a few props if Q-Taro was the loser, to keep it at a one "death" requirement, weight wise.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Onmi posted:

It's odd that we have repeating trials for Nao, Kanna, and Sara. But no one else did that we've seen so far.

I guess they're the ones who brought/were +1s. Kanna's sister, Joe and Nao weren't on the four card sheet things with the percentages.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Tylana posted:

Do we know if the +1s were always the ones that were released with the unscraped key? Seems weird to bias the test in favour of the person you didn't plan on taking.

Kanna's on the cards, therefore, no.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Okay, how about it being chance to die instead, and showing Shin/Sou a 0% and letting them come to their own conclusion changes his behaviour sufficiently such that he then dies in this Main Game?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




PMush Perfect posted:

Is there a pun in Gashu's name?

Gashu, he's got you?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Goon Boots posted:

I think she is just doing whatever she is told. She seems at least a little genuinely remorseful about her actions, hence she is the crying doll.

I'm not sure what we can make of non-canon bad ends in regards to character actions. We have the same issue with Qburger, since in one instance he is willing to kill literally everyone, including Gin, but then in our route is willing to risk his life for Gin.

Isn't it already a decently well established bit of psychology that people are more willing to push a button that causes suffering/death in the abstract, rather than having to view said suffering/death themselves?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Kanna did a hacking guys, case closed.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




My money's on Gin. The Gin doll is him decades ago when he was a kid, and now old Gin is straight up Blofeld.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Hypocrisy posted:

So that's pretty much confirmation that Sou made the Joe AI.

My read of it is that there were two Joe AIs prepped, like there were multiple Mishimas. All Sou did was turn one on rather than the other. Alternatively, Joe AI might've legit just been utterly disgusted by Sara killing Kanna.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Okay, how about we go a bit crazy and call him Shin?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Onmi posted:

That works, if Shin is Sou, then Sou is Shin.

Rio Ranger would be proud.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




professor metis posted:

Please, if we name this guy Shin I'm going to get so confused about Sou-Shin and Shin-Sou.

I'm voting for Midori, because I like green.

Ok, so, Shin was Sou but was really Shin using the identity of Sou, while Sou gave his identity to Shin and is now no longer Sou, but we can still make him Shin in honour of Sou.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Him spitefully activating an evil Joe AI also is in line with him actually being an alright guy. If he really was the sociopathic rear end in a top hat he tried to be, he wouldíve used that to get Sara on side, rather than to hurt her for killing Kanna.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Heck yeah, actually learning a bit about Keiji!

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Just imagine how confusing that conversation is if you named the bad guy Shin.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Well, we're all believing that Sou Hiyori is a real actual person.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




I'm taking it to be a misdirect to make you not think it's Sara.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Iím very excited, itís felt like far too long. Do we know if the Japanese fans enjoyed it?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Tax Evasion posted:

That doesn't seem all that likely, considering that Sara apparently has an 85% chance of dying. I would definitely believe that some people in the organization are trying for that result (most likely Sara's father) but the game itself seems to be neutral as to who should win.

Why not both training her, and also simultaneously testing her?

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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




ok but what if sara is a doll and its the humans that don't bleed

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