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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Tylana posted:

Well. That's pretty metal. I do like the changes around the eyes and such.

So, bets on Keiji having killed some really bad people, or some really innocent people? I think it's probably more than just failed to save some people, given context.

Didn't he already admit that he'd killed someone by firing a gun and that's why he refused to do it? So almost assuredly that the death's still traumatizing him.

I think Keiji is just a genuinely good person, but his coyness makes him carry the hint of untrustworthiness, unlike Sou (or... Not-Sou) who always seemed to be lying even before it came out he was a filthy liar. The hanging question for me is, given we've seen names on sheets from other participants who either are in hiding, or didn't make it... was Keiji actually alone in his task? And if he wasn't, why does he pretend he is?

As for the game so far... I will admit I don't dig death-game stories. I think the strongest element of the first two Zero Escape games was that ultimately the point of the 'death game' was that everybody got out alive. The fact that so much death just... was inevitable in ZTD along with the forced segregation of the cast preventing interesting dynamics from forming, was largely what makes me consider that game so weak. There being an inevitable "No, people are going to die and there's jack and poo poo that can be done to stop it." Doesn't appeal to me. That said, this is an extremely strong story so I've been following along quite intrigued to how it's going to suss out.

I guess what hinges for me is we don't know how many rounds they have to survive. 2 people are eliminated in each round minimum, the majority vote and the Sacrifice.

So we have 11 People in the main game, technically we could have had more, but that's the question. Do they just keep doing Main Games until there's a single survivor? Going by 2 Minimum each time, we go 11>9>7>5>3>1. This doesn't work. Since the Sacrifice always gets 2 votes, any 3-player scenario ends with the Sacrifice voting for themself twice and winning automatically. We also need to account for the number of people initially placed in the game, which, according to the blackboard in the bar, is 20.

So that makes the initial amount of votes Odd, 21>19>17> repeating. However, not everyone survived their first trial. So here's the question I.E. the rules.

Is it a certain number for victory, or a certain amount of rounds? Technically, we know that 2, minimum, can survive by voting for the Sacrifice, If only 3 people survived the First Trial (Let's say Sara, Jou and Sou) then there couldn't BE a game. So I think that it's a certain amount of rounds, that concludes when the game can no longer be played.

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


This, again, makes me curious if everyone had survived their tests, we'd be at 18 now. That means there'd need to be 180 Star Chips Clear Chips. So, is there always that many chips OR Does the game change depending on survivors.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Assuming a limited number of cards, I think it's less likely that Sou maliciously tried to set Jou up with the sacrifice, so much as he was just getting rid of it himself. Assume this scenario

1. Sou finds the Sacrifice Card, and also at least two commoner cards.
2. He sets Kanna up to find the Sacrifice card to trade her the Commoner card.
3. Sou then discards the sacrifice card.
4. Lacking any other card options, Jou has to take the Sacrifice.

Now, this is interesting because it does imply that the games set up in such a way to account for the surviving players. Otherwise, there's a chance of No Sacrifice, as there are 20 participants, to begin with. And since each round MUST have a sacrifice that would imply the removal of cards until it was guaranteed

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Mystic Mongol posted:

Sou isn't pro spiting Sara, he's con dying to the majority vote. And when nearly every player is in a mono voting bloc controlled by Sara, that means Sara decides who lives and who dies.

So your choices are (A) Trust Sara, or (B) Break up her voting bloc and forming your own. Sou doesn't trust Sara, so he's taking the only other route available to him... influencing the most impressionable players to do what he wants.

It's that or die, really.

There's also a really important point that... Sou isn't personable. Like... he doesn't understand unconditional trust and if his backstory is true (Is a loner job hopper) would basically put him at a pretty low like... 'value' both self-worth and in interaction. How can you make friends and form bonds of trust when you've never done that. And as others have said, the "intro to majority vote" is Sou's figure, so it's like it was his trial to learn how the Main game was going to be played before everyone else. which also means he'd be put way WAY on edge before everyone else.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I don't think there's any reason to doubt it as being a real video. But then again, they could always be using Dolls. Dolls very much complicate the story for figuring out "So did that... happen?" We could easily be seeing Keiji's first trial. Which, from context, was him having the choice to either save another police officer, or to let them die. Rather than the trial Sara got, which was clearly a trial with a logic component, that seemed to be more Saw in its design. "Here's this lady you know and clearly have a connection with. You can hit this button and save her life, or let her get killed."

Since we just got Keiji to confirm that he killed a criminal, and it was someone close to him. The woman could have been responsible for putting him in that situation. Giving him the order to fire, or something. It makes sense that Keiji would let someone die if they'd caused essentially his trauma. Though given he's still suffering hallucinations, it clearly hasn't helped him one iota.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Tylana posted:

Or the person the chained woman is speaking to and is speaking to her might not be Keiji. There was no line about recognizing his voice, right? So maybe he just had to watch as someone did that (and then probably shot and killed that person).

Also an option. Depends on if he just recently shot the criminal. Or if it was an incident in his past. Something we likely wont know because it'd be his personal data. And he's extremely defensive of it.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I'm voting to Push her.

Yeah she's alive and that's what makes this an actual decision but there's no way they'd let two Reko's live. And she's a Doll, we've no idea what her body is built like. She could be forcefully controlled at any time as far as we know. It's harsh, but she's too dangerous to be left alive.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Insertnamehere31 posted:

push her

Why would real Reko punch the Mishima ai? Did he know the kidnapper’s plan to pull a switcheroo and baited her into killing him just so that there would be a mark to prove who the fake was?

Because he knew Nao would want to keep seeing him in spite of her resolve and he wanted to remove the temptation.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Veriun posted:

Push her.

It's awful, and she doesn't deserve it.
But Q-taro has repeatedly proven himself too unreliable to even attempt to take the remaining stingers and hope for the best... and maybe his button doesn't even work anymore now that the first stinger's been fired? I can see that happening.

Don't forget Joe. “Just keep pressing it! The device will be slowed the more you press, and maybe even stop!”

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Also I have a horrid feeling that if we leave this Reko alive, she's going to kill the real Reko to 'Be the real one'. that's how this usually goes.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


differentiating posted:

I feel the need to point out that not killing the fake Reko isn't the same as trusting her blindly. We can keep her alive while still being wary of her. That's basically what we've been doing with Sou all chapter, after all.

No, we can't, because that level of minute decision making isn't how this game works. If this decision kills Reko because the AI Reko goes berserk, which she's already doing confronted with her non-reality, That's not something we can affect outside this decision. Someone is going to die, and if everyone saying Spare, has a better plan that pushing her when Gin's life is on the line, please lay it out. Mostly you're all arguing that "Oh we shouldn't" But you got no solutions to the problem besides "Hoping really hard that 1. Q-taro is willing to press the button and 2. That he can survive it."

This is not Reko, the real Reko is still out there more than likely, anyone arguing that "Killing her could be the same as killing Reko" well you have no proof of that, not killing her could be the catalyst to kill Reko. Q-Taro pushing the button could be the catalyst to kill Reko, It's Fake Reko or Gin right now.


Toalpaz posted:

i would push the fake in for sou

also yes this question would be harder if it literally was a 'difficult' or 'bad' person being sacrificed and not an innocent child person. fortunately it is an innocent child we are choosing to murder through our innaction and sou will be sure to crush us with that knowledge.

Also this. If this was another Sara as a doll, I'd push her. gently caress if it was Joe I'd push him. It's Gin, he's alive, there's no debate or question for him.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Well, will someone please pick up that phone? Because I loving CALLED IT!

Also :sadwave:

Onmi fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 13, 2020

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


PMush Perfect posted:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that the people who're upset right now thought that by making the right choice, they'd be able to keep everyone from dying. You know that's not how this genre works, friends. :allears:

Edit: At least, that's my Doylian smugness. From a Watsonian perspective, Rio absolutely stepped over the line, you're right. Hm. I wonder if anyone's going to punish him in some way for it.

Well, I mean, he got shot in the head... so I think he got pretty punished.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


The fact that Nao doesn't have an AI makes me wonder if she's meant to be in the game to begin with. Like why would her personal info be a dossier and not like the others?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


It's odd that we have repeating trials for Nao, Kanna, and Sara. But no one else did that we've seen so far.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I think the key point is that, regardless of which result, Rio is breaking his programming by doing this. He's not supposed to be killing anyone likely outside of the actual games themselves. This is Rio taking actions he's not meant to, hence getting killed.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


So... Sou shredded the original percentage papers? Which makes me think the percentage papers were in his Trial? If so, that's a pretty big mind gently caress off the bat if he's, as it's likely he is, Shin. "Hey there, it's a death game, your chance of winning is 0%"

Onmi fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 21, 2020

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Heavy neutrino posted:

The winning percentages look pretty strange to me and might be something different entirely. They add up to 100%, but we already know that it's possible for everyone to lose (keymaster selected) and for two people to win (sacrifice selected), and I doubt that these two options are equally likely to happen. You'd expect that the sacrifice tricking everyone is more likely than everyone messing up and voting for the keymaster, in which case the percentages should add up to more than 100%. They should also add up to more than 100% if there are some outlier scenarios where the players outwit the game and survive in larger numbers, but that might not be taken into account by whatever calculations are used.

Well Neutrino, have you considered that it's like when a Fatal Fourway is announced as all competitors having a 25% chance of winning, even though that's NOT how numbers work?

EDIT: More seriously, as Keymaster and Sacrifice aren't set, so they can't be an influencing factor. Yes, Sara COULD become the Sacrifice, however, that's entirely a random circumstance (Except now there's something about being able to trade roles?) basically, for Shin Tsukimi to have a 0% chance means they've gone "It doesn't matter if you have the Keymaster, the Sacrifice, or any other role, there is no chance you can survive. Even if you were the keymaster, everyone would still vote for you and DIE"

Or it could all be bullshit made to gently caress with Shin since this whole thing is apparently an experiment on negative emotions, someone being confronted with "Hey... you're in a death game and you have no chance to survive" is brutal.

That said... I raise a question I asked before. How many participants can 'win'? If it's only a single survivor, then, by all accounts, isn't it better for the Sacrifice to be chosen?

Onmi fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Apr 21, 2020

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Okay, how about it being chance to die instead, and showing Shin/Sou a 0% and letting them come to their own conclusion changes his behaviour sufficiently such that he then dies in this Main Game?

It could be, I hadn't considered it.


Lord_Magmar posted:

Have you considered that it might not be likelihood of winning the death game, but instead chance of surviving it overall?

Basically their calculations are such that Sara has a 15% chance of surviving to the end, whilst poor Shin has 0%. Whether that be because of the main games or the side games.

I had, but like... again we don't know when this game 'ends'... well I guess that doesn't matter.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Wow that trial with the guns is like... that's a bullshit trial from Zero Time Dilemna. Like "Hey, here's two guns, fuckin' pick." "Is there... anything to determine which gun to fire?" "No!"

That's not a trial, that's a coinflip, you might as well just flip a coin when the trial starts and go "Okay and you're dead."

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Hazdoc posted:

yeah, its possible there was a clue to not make it a 50/50, and they just didn't see it. Sara and Joe's trial was basically a 50/50 too except they figured out the trick

I guess, immediately jumping to mind is... I know likely "well if she didn't point it at herself her choker would kill her." But like... her arms don't look locked in place... Shoot... shoot the guns away from you?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Falconer posted:

I'd been wondering about how Gin had never shown his face or neck (not long after Sou made a point to show off his 'necklace' to deter suspicion that he was with the kidnappers, come to think of it). Something else I'm curious about is who was in each of the pairs when this all started. We know that Sara was paired with Joe, Mishima was paired with Nao, Kanna was paired with her (now dead) sister, and Keiji was paired with his (now dead) superior officer. As for the others:

- Q-Taro may have been paired with the boxer. Put the two sporty meatheads with each other then see what happens.
- Sou may have been paired with the businessman who cursed Sara before dying. That could explain why Sou is determined to screw with Sara.
- Alice may have been paired with the lady who lost a game of Russian Roulette. After all, Alice was spooked by the sounds of gunfire from the game that Sara and friends were involved with during the first day.

Reko and Gin I'm not sure on mostly because I don't really remember the other two dead people nor do I remember how they died (I think one was hanging and the other was death by way of multiple blades?). Gin's been unusually durable this whole time though considering everything that has happened so far; Keiji, Q-Taro, Nao, Sara, Sou, Kanna and Alice have shown signs of stress and exhaustion but Gin keeps keeping on.

I don't think pairs in the first trial were guaranteed. I think they're focused on 'drawing out emotion' from the people there, if what Gashu said is correct. Then Keiji's trial makes sense as him being 'confronted' with having the life of the woman who essentially holds sway over him. Now the question is, why DID she protect Keiji? Was it to put him in her pocket, or because she genuinely cared for him? Now that's the question I.E. the button to be asked, "If you think this woman cared for you, press the button and you'll save her life, if you think she was just using you, then leave her to be killed."

Notably, Keiji's trial, apparently, has no way for him to die, he'd pass no matter what from what I can tell. Where would be the purpose of pairing up random people with no connection? Especially when all the paired trials we know about placed people with connections together.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Eeepies posted:

I think it's unlikely its Gin simply because he had a real chance of dying in that trial if Q-taro didn't swap and no one pushed Fake Reko into the pit, but maybe that's the real reason why Gashu executed Ranger?

I think Gashu's reason for killing Ranger has to go to the 'rules of the game'

If the Floor master betrays the rules, the experiment is over, unless the floor master is killed. Ranger broke the rule about floor masters directly killing participants. He killed Alice/Reko when that is NOT within the bounds of his rules, and if he'd lived, then the rules of the organization state that the game is over and they can go home.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Kanna has repeatedly tried to stress that Sou is a good person and useful for the group, I don't think she'd tried to kill him. Likely, she noticed the panic on Sara's face even at the end, and decided then and there to trade it away to her.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


NAME REDACTED posted:

What's Your Time To Shine? Is it, like... Another game from the same studio, or something?

It's a spin-off alt-reality scenario. Everyone is intended to be a playable character, but right now it's just Mishima. It's apparently chock full of backstory for characters who otherwise uh... died

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Nao is missing from the list, If you take the list of participants as the people meant to be in the game, and the 4 people who weren't as extra's, then the transgression is clear. Sara's sacrifice was diverted to Nao. Kanna and Sara are meant to be in the game, where Nao isn't, therefore, killing her would get rid of the last 'foreign element'.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


SITB posted:

Wait a second, if there's no Sacrifice how come there were 9 votes during the previous round?

...There is a sacrifice. It's just not Kanna.

The facts

1. Kanna attempted to trade the Sacrifice to herself.
2. Kanna received the Commoner card instead.
3. There have been 9 votes so there is a Sacrifice.
4. The original participants of the Death Game were 16, not 20.
5. Nao is not meant to be in the Death Game.
6. Gashu in some way violated the rules of the Death Game.
7. Reko doesn't get a vote and cannot be traded to, because if she could, don't you think that Sou would have traded the Sacrifice to Reko who's dead in the first place?
8. Sou isn't Sou, he's Shin Tsukimi
9. The actual Sou Hiyori is dead, he was murdered by Alice.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Goon Boots posted:

I'm not sure this is cut-and-dried since Gashu (and Sou?) has apparently messed with the constraints of the game, so there is uncertainty about what is and is not possible with votes, roles, and trading (at least for the last trade).

Sou literally said he didn't mess with the Role cards, and the thread is waiting for that secret triple reverse bluff where secretly he's done something. But if he'd done something he wouldn't be so desperate to get Kanna votes based on the thought that she was the Sacrifice. Sou's an rear end in a top hat but everything he's done in this main game has been consistent with the thought of keeping Kanna alive, and not even as a pawn, since if she WAS the Sacrifice, the game would conclude if she recieved the majority vote.

The focus right now is what did Gashu do to transgress on the game. Everyone knows if they can solve this, they have another shot at escaping. So there's no reason for anyone to hide anything.

If Gashu is intending to run the experiment, there's no point in removing the Sacrifice from play, especially not when clarifying the rules at the start that as there is an even number of players, a tie between the Sacrifice and the Keymaster would lead to a party wipe. He would simply have let the sacrifice's role be quiet, not only that, but if there was no sacrifice it would be a clear transgression of the rules, rather than an unclear one.

Finally, Reko is not a participant anymore, even if she was counted, which she wouldn't she died way before the game began, the game adjusts if people die, remember, if you don't go to the main game, you are immediately killed. So even if Reko was in play somehow, she'd be discounted for not being present. Sou has no reason to direct all the votes towards Kanna and try to make her seem like dead weight that needs removal if he isn't convinced she has the Sacrifice. Especially as if she didn't, she formed a voting bloc along side him that kept him alive in the game.

Again, let us look at what we know, logically.

Miley gave us the 4 papers, the list of names.
At Prize Exchange, Nao was the only person without an AI, she only had a dossier written for her.
Nao is also absent from the papers.
We know that Kai wasn't intended to be in the game, and Joe was with us on happenstance, so again, a very good chance he was never meant to be here.
Especially considering




Then again...





So... What did Kai mean by 'files'

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


We should vote for Sou. Yes, he's more useful than Kanna, he's also a helluva lot more vindictive than Kanna. It's been clear that this entire round of the game, he's been trying to keep her safe, he manipulated her into the final round because he assumed she had the Sacrifice, but now, here, he knows she doesn't, he's KILLED HER if he isn't voted for. Not only that, but Sara will be the one who killed her in spite of his protests, he said it himself.

Kanna's a kid, she's a dumb kid who assumes that her dying will solve all the problems in the world, I can relate to that, I think a lot of us have at times gone down into a mentally dark place like that. And guess what? It was never the answer and it wouldn't have solved anything.

Sou is volunteering himself, let's honor that.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


So they've been running this game for ages using the AIs, So that makes me think pretty clearly that these are the actual people, because why would you run this over and over with AI only to then run it with Dolls or otherwise fakes? That said.

Gashu just mentioned another thing that implies memory is another big thing here.



With everyone having forgotten Sou Hiyori until seeing him, and Alice being his murderer, and all of them being frightened of him, along with the name of the organization being the name of Qtaro's orphanage.

There's a lot of things to break down and unpack.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Keep in mind that one of the other people with a high rank of victory, the boxer, never made it out of his First Trial (Hit the button before the walls crush you)

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


I assume that Sou Hiyori is how Shin presented himself as, a manipulator, one who laughed and mocked and revelled in the pain he caused, and every attempt at seeming nice was another attempt to stab in the knife. Which must've meant that Sou was a motherfucker and Alice was right to kill him.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


placid saviour posted:

drat. That's dark.

NO poo poo

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Keiji just looks utterly shattered. While it's clear he's protecting Sara and doesn't want her to die, clearly it's not at the expense of everyone else.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Also, seems very clear that Sou will indeed, go berserk if we choose Kanna over him. In the end, even if he was an rear end in a top hat, it seemed he did genuinely come to care about her, even over his own life. It's an interesting thing, Sou entered this game in the worst position of anyone, he was aware that he had no chance of winning, his only way to do so, would be to abandon who he was, and assume another identity, the identity of someone who could manipulate and control the other players to survive. But in the end, I guess Shin Tsukimi won out

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


StillFullyTerrible posted:

All her actions have been sadistic: preying on the mind-wiped Sara, giving Rio a sense of empathy before he died for good, lying about Kanna's execution...
Safalin's gimmick is "being sad." People mistook this for her feeling remorse, instead of just being part of her gimmick.

Yeah, I don't think Safallin is human in a way of being able to be empathetic, she is, as she states, our enemy and always has been. she helped us because that's what she was ordered to do, not out of an empathic desire to understand our situation. If you ordered her to give us all cake she'd still be teary about it.

EDIT: I just had a thought, that was, what if Keiji is working for the villains. It's a long short theory, but when I think about the First Trials we're aware of, Keiji's is one of the only ones that didn't put HIM in any danger. He was instead, given the choice to execute his superior officer. That could have been like a test, to see if he was willing to take on the role as a mole within the players (That we have no reason to believe exists). It might also explain why he cares so deeply for Sara, like it's one thing to elect her leader, but he's beyond anything willing to keep her safe and alive, excluding the Sacrifice moment, then again, I doubt if he was being tested at the start, he wanted to die.

Onmi fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jun 19, 2020

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Tenebrais posted:

Speaking of, isn't the setup of the first trial for Sara and Joe kind of weird? Joe was a tagalong. Of the four tagalongs we're familiar with, three had the same trial, but while Kugie and Nao were the ones that needed to be saved by the actual candidate (who was in little danger), Sara was left at the mercy of Joe being able to solve the puzzle.
Despite the fact that Sara is ostensibly the most important participant, and Joe is a relative unknown? Why risk it?

Perhaps for the same reason Sara's been involved with the Sacrifices, to 'harden' her. Or perhaps to make her work for her 15% victory chance.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Kinda crazy that Sou was able to remove his collar though, he really was a smart guy.


MarquiseMindfang posted:

My read is that there was enough data collected to have a Joe AI (else why was there a doll?) but they never actually bothered putting it together, and Sou did that. Then in the Kanna ending he added his malicious code on top? Or he'd already done that and in this ending his final act was removing the bits he layered over the top of it.

I think he finished the AI and made it either malicious or supportive depending on the route. I doubt he'd done it before then.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Elfface posted:

"If you die your memories will vanish" seems an interesting way of putting it. What're the odds this is actually canon, and the island folks are AIs being tested, with survivors being on monitors?

This might be what was meant by 'Candidates'. But then again, where are the other participants?

EDIT: This could be similar to the death game, the 'Odds of Success' might have been calculated using different scenarios.

Onmi fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jul 3, 2020

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Okay, how about we go a bit crazy and call him Shin?

That works, if Shin is Sou, then Sou is Shin.

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