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Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Well, this is one hell of a ride we're on. This revelation about Kai is distressing, but we have another problem as well. If Alice is to be believed, Sou stole some dead man's identity.

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Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


. . . .Sou, you SON OF A-!

UGH! gently caress the Main Game, kill that rear end in a top hat now!

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Talk to Alice. Seems good to learn all we can.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


I like Gin, so let's go with him.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Are we capable of doing that bonus attraction now? If so, it makes me wonder how long it will remain open for us.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Ignatius basically said what I was going to. Let's roll with Alice.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Trade with Nao. It wouldn't hurt to gain a few extra tokens.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Most people would've simply pocketed the drat phone, but not Sara. She had to put it back. And of course it comes back to bite her in the rear end, because why wouldn't it?

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


I wonder how much worse the hallucinations get before Sara can't handle it anymore.

Anyway, talk to Keiji.

Sword_of_Dusk fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 27, 2020

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


This decision kinda reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, where there was a trial to determine if the android Data had the rights that a human had. Here we see a similar situation, if far more deadly. Does Doll Reko have the right to live? She's basically human after all.

I don't want to let Gin die, as he doesn't deserve it, but can I vote to sacrifice Doll Reko? Gonna hafta go with No. She's got the right to decide for herself what she wants to do. I'm hoping she can sacrifice herself, as I feel like the real Reko might be capable of doing.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Jesus, I keep wanting to change my answer. This moral quandary is really getting to me.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Well, if the moral debate evaporates, then the argument becomes simpler. We unlock the ability to kill doll Reko by being able to reveal that she is a doll. Sparing her is equal to failing to do that. This means sparing her is equal to the failure state of the argument section. Ergo, to spare is to fail.

There's still something unaccounted for though: everyone else's reactions. We have no idea just what everyone else will think of Sara's actions after this, and that's kind of important. And while Sara choosing to not push Faeko might cause some to hate her for possibly not saving Gin, it can't be ignored that even if she doesn't do the deed, it can still be done by another. If Sara does go through with it, it opens up the possibility that someone could use her choice as a reason to spread distrust about her goals. "Oh, Sara's willing to take a life so easily. How do you know she won't turn on you?"

I really like this decision point though. Until you happen to learn what long term repercussions come about from both choices, you can't call either one good or bad. And even when you do, it may never be that clear cut.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Lord_Magmar posted:

Also frankly as people have noted there is explicitly someone more capable of saving Gin than anyone else, and any death of Gin is based on Q-Taro not pressing that button. He even now knows that it would take all 5 to kill a full grown man and he's significantly larger than the average adult man.

Gin's death in the case of inaction here is as much if not more Q-Taro's fault than Sara, who has no promise anything she does can save Gin given the full rules of this game have not been explained.

Speaking of this, it spawns an interesting question: Why set it up in such a fashion? If you set up a trap like this, why not use a stronger substance that's fatal with just one injection? Why draw it out? I mean, sure, there's spectacle and torture involved, but this entire thing seems set up to have the participants produce the tension and drama.

Additionally, trust and trade have been key components of this little side game. Trade seems apparent given we're currently figuring out if one life should be traded for another, but the nature of this poison needed to be injected up to five times to kill a grown man makes me wonder. Faeko is a product of the Room of Lies, so to speak. While her status as a fake appears to be the lie surrounding her, what if it goes deeper? What if the key trade here is between the two people currently facing the stinger, and not whether to take a sentient life? What if this is all about those two figuring out a fair trade?

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Lord_Magmar posted:

I mean they spell it out, in theory the person who gets the most tokens is the person everyone trusts the most (this isn't what happens because Q-Taro just does a lot of trading) and the person who has the least tokens is the least trusted (nope, Gin is just bad at trading tokens around). Thus the conundrum for them is does the most trusted person feel the least trusted is worth saving, will you trade the person everyone likes for the person nobody likes. As noted though, Q-Taro is immensely selfish and a bit of a coward. The reason it requires all 5 to kill someone is absolutely to pressure the person with the button into choosing to save or not save the other player whilst having a clear countdown to guaranteed death for them.

As you can see, this hasn't happened because the nature of the tokens was hidden from every player, and what would happen with this particular game. I think the real chance to have no deaths came and went when we had clear levels of token swapping trust, much like the test that killed the Professor the way everyone survives this game is that everyone trades tokens equally so there is no most/least trusted to put up on the rotating target in the first place.

I'm well aware of what Ranger told them, and what they haven't been told. My point here is that this entire Death Game has made trust a key thing, and yet, in a situation originally stated to be able to be cleared without loss of life, we find ourselves at a point in which a life (of sorts) has to be traded to save another. But there's another trade possible, which none of the characters have considered since learning the pertinent info.

To better visualize it, imagine that Gin was replaced by literally anyone else here. The two at the mercy of the poison can speak to each other. They can barter. They can actually establish a trade right then and there, once they've learned that one injection isn't fatal. Is it possible that that's the true solution to all this?

That's just a question born from me considering everything we've seen up to now. I've already cast my vote, so I might as well speculate elsewhere while we wait to see what happens.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


My curiosity about the other path was too strong, so I looked into it. Can't talk about it until it gets shown off, but I've some words about the whole situation.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Goon Boots posted:

Are the words going to be :piss:

Not quite, but that's not that far off.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


So, Sara's gonna get the Sacrifice card, right? I mean, whatever she gets will likely get traded, and unless the last portion of the game is wildly different from this, it's too early for her to actually keep the Sacrifice role.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Hazdoc posted:

Were we told the timing of the Sage knowing who the Keymaster was?

I thought the Sage was made aware of the possessor of the Keymaster card the moment the cards came into play.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Card trades are suddenly happening in rapid succession. I wonder what got traded this time.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


Trust. No way to proceed but to believe in the others.

Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


The vote has to go to Sou/Shin. Not because of any lingering ill will, but he's proven to be a crafty mofo, and if we piss him off here by killing Kanna, he may very likely become the most dangerous dude there. Besides, this is something he wants to do. Hell, he went into this Main Game trying to ensure Kanna's safety. We ought to honor his wishes on this.

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Sword_of_Dusk
Sep 30, 2018

Legendary Luminary


I'm honestly surprised we had people vote to kill Kanna. And after seeing the results of the path we chose, I'm very glad that most worked out the logic. Now Sara's gotten what she really needed from Joe, and she can be stronger for the trials to come.

But I have to note that I really wish we could've saved Nao. Though I suppose she's happy where she's at now.

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