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Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


Sword_of_Dusk posted:

If Sara does go through with it, it opens up the possibility that someone could use her choice as a reason to spread distrust about her goals. "Oh, Sara's willing to take a life so easily. How do you know she won't turn on you?"

Yeah, Sou would be more than willing to point out that Sara killed Faeko under the assumption that it would save both Gin and Q-taro while also suggesting that Sara did it to save Gin more than to save Q-Taro. Gin, after all, has been fiercely loyal to Sara while Q-Taro hasn't been. Sou could also note that if Sara is willing to kill a fake human then what's to stop her from killing a real human the next time that the stakes get this high?

Among others, if Alice wasn't already in Sou's corner then watching Sara kill someone that is basically Alice's sister from a little under three years ago would definitely get him in said corner. Q-Taro would probably buy the whole, "Sara did it to save Gin and saving you just happened to be a part of the result." bit too.

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Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Congrats, you let a less emotionally developed version of someone encounter the real one, and they did the obvious thing of trying to kill the real one. Guess the spare crowd's reasoning of Q-taro and Gin can work things out between themselves was right though. A shame about the other, very obvious, downsides of keeping the doll Reko alive.

Eh, I dunno. Ranger, the doll that it turns out has a massive hate/jealousy boner for humans, clearly would have a contingency plan in place just in case the right solution was chosen (Q-taro pressing the button). Hell, that's mostly why Ranger has a third eyehole now; Q-Taro managed to find his spine and pressed the button so Ranger decided to set up the situation that led to the deaths of both the real Reko and himself.

Going back to the spare/push choice, suppose that Sara decides to push Faeko. Faeko falls to her death via impalement but the game doesn't end since Q-Taro hasn't pressed the button. The events still unfold much the same way they do in the current path (Q-taro presses the button after hearing Gin's pleas) except Faeko isn't around to kill Reko. No humans are dead so Ranger cooks up a scenario out of the blue which leads to someone other than the real Reko dying, again in a way that is out of Sara's (the player's) control and which leads to the Father of Negative Emotions intervening and ending Ranger's existence.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


PMush Perfect posted:

I appreciate the potential foreshadowing/puzzle hint if you saw Gin's info, then you'd know the 35.5 kg thing without needing to guess.

Also worth noting is that Reko weighs more than Gin so, assuming that Faeko weighs about the same as Reko, shoving Faeko wouldn't balance the scales when she lands on the spikes. Did Ranger mention what happens if the amount on the LED is overshot?

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


It could also be a way of seeing how much trust there is between the intended target and whoever got kidnapped along with them. Joe and Sara did their damnedest to work together given the bond between them but at least one of the other involuntary pairs didn't fare as well.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


NeoRonTheNeuron posted:

Gashu also said that the monitors contain AIs of all those who cleared the First Trial, but there are only 9 monitors for the 11 clearers. One was broken from the start, so perhaps the remaining 8 were for everyone but Joe+Kai+Nao.

I'm thinking that the first broken monitor may have been for Sou. After re-reading earlier updates:

- Sara checks the monitors a bit before Sarafin and Ranger first show up, hoping that since there's one for Mishima then maybe there's one for Joe as well. She finds pictures on the back of the monitors but none of the pictures are of Joe. All nine monitors are intact at this point.
- Sarafin and Ranger show up and explain the rules of floor 3. Everyone except for Sou has shown up at this point and Ranger herds people off to the Prize Exchange.
- When Sara and friends head back to the Monitor Room the leftmost monitor is damaged. Upon further investigation it turns out that the picture on the back of the monitor has been ripped off but no there's nothing that states who it was a picture of.
- Nao takes a moment to do something other than talk to MishimaBot and notes that she hasn't seen Sou this whole time.
- The search for Sou begins and his beanie is found. Before the search can resume though it's time for games!
- One game later, Reko finds Sou in his room face down after being attacked (again). There is a plank of wood on the bed and the description for it implies it'd be sturdy enough to hit something with.
- When MishimaBot's monitor is broken it's noted that there were bits of wood around the first broken monitor but not the second monitor. Something else of note is that breaking a monitor prevents access to that particular AI, meaning that both MishimaBot and MysteryBot are now offline.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


So at the time of the trade three people weren't present: Sou, Gin and Nao. Unless he had a change of heart and started trading tokens with people then there's no way that Gin had the Sacrifice since you can't use your own tokens to force a trade. If Gin still hasn't made any trades then he can only be either the Sage or a Commoner since the Sacrifice was someone else and Sara was the Keymaster at the time of the trade. That leaves either Sou or Nao as the former owner of the Sacrifice.

Sou is the obvious choice because, well, it's SOU... but that seems a little too convenient. Nao however could work as the former owner of the Sacrifice, especially if this new Mishima AI isn't on the up and up. MishimaBot v2 wouldn't have too much trouble convincing Nao that the best course of action is to trade away the Sacrifice.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


PlasticAutomaton posted:

Okay so Sara's tokens got stolen right after someone pushed the Sacrifice on her. ...This is either Sou or Nao's doing and I don't really know which possibility is worse. At least we have Gin, who is a really good kid.

Yeah, Nao has been a little off ever since Reko's death and I suspect the new Mishima AI has something to do with it. It seems like Nao's been performing tasks (assignments?) that MishimaBot v2 has given her. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the tasks was taking Reko's tokens. It would take some convincing but I could see MishimaBot v2 finding a way to convince Nao to force the Sacrifice onto Sara as well. As for Sou, I still don't think he's the one who made the third trade but I do think he found a way into Sara's room in order to swipe her tokens. Sara would then be unable to make any more trades unless she can convince someone to either give her tokens (possible) or to make a trade with her (unlikely, at this point I don't think Sara would voluntarily stick someone with the Sacrifice, not even Sou).

If someone in Sou's group has the Sage card though then he would know that Sara had the Keymaster after the first and second trades then lost it after the third trade. Even if more trades are made Sou's group has more than enough tokens between them for additional trades thanks mostly to Q-Taro. In short, Sou can guard against the Sacrifice being traded into the group and also be able to trade away the Sage before the Main Game starts. About the only way it could backfire (that I can think of off the top of my head) is if more trades are made, Sou waits until the last moment to force the Sage onto Sara, and none of the trades between now and then involved Sara meaning that Sou just traded the Sacrifice into his group.

I don't see Sou being the one stuck with the Sacrifice in such a case since he has to survive in order to keep antagonizing Sara but that still leaves Q-Taro, Alice or maybe Kanna as someone Sou throws under the bus in order to survive.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


Yeah, I'm thinking that Sou hasn't been behind anything recently but not for a lack of trying. I suspect Sou wanted to steal Sara's tokens but found that they were already gone thanks to Nao fulfilling one of the requests of Mishima v2. No worries though since Sou still had the laptop... except Nao just pilfered THAT as well.

As for the Sacrifice, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the second trade was between someone in Sou's group and Nao with the end result being that Nao got stuck with the Sacrifice. Sou, being who he is, would expect Nao to respond by trading with someone in his group. No problem there since between Q-taro, Alice, Kanna and Sou himself there are more than enough tokens for additional trades. Sou can set up Nao the same way he set up Joe and ideally get rid of another one of Sara's allies.

This new Mishima AI however wouldn't be above coercing Nao into trading the Sacrifice onto Sara so now Sou has no idea where the Sacrifice is and it's on the last person he'd expect Nao to trade it to. Time will tell if Sou gets a chance to gauge Sara's reaction after another trade occurs but right now he's lost the chance at Sara's tokens, the knowledge of where the Sacrifice is for use during the Main Game, and possession of Kai's laptop.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


I'd been wondering about how Gin had never shown his face or neck (not long after Sou made a point to show off his 'necklace' to deter suspicion that he was with the kidnappers, come to think of it). Something else I'm curious about is who was in each of the pairs when this all started. We know that Sara was paired with Joe, Mishima was paired with Nao, Kanna was paired with her (now dead) sister, and Keiji was paired with his (now dead) superior officer. As for the others:

- Q-Taro may have been paired with the boxer. Put the two sporty meatheads with each other then see what happens.
- Sou may have been paired with the businessman who cursed Sara before dying. That could explain why Sou is determined to screw with Sara.
- Alice may have been paired with the lady who lost a game of Russian Roulette. After all, Alice was spooked by the sounds of gunfire from the game that Sara and friends were involved with during the first day.

Reko and Gin I'm not sure on mostly because I don't really remember the other two dead people nor do I remember how they died (I think one was hanging and the other was death by way of multiple blades?). Gin's been unusually durable this whole time though considering everything that has happened so far; Keiji, Q-Taro, Nao, Sara, Sou, Kanna and Alice have shown signs of stress and exhaustion but Gin keeps keeping on.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


I'm thinking that part of getting the good ending will hinge on how often that Sara (the player) votes for Sou Shin during the Main Games. Too many votes for Shin, perhaps a majority of Sara's/your votes, locks out the good ending.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


Nao's going to die if we don't vote for her but everyone except for Nao and whoever she picks (if she picks anyone) will die if we DO vote for her. Voting for Kanna will firmly put Alice and Q-Taro against Sara, will likely traumatize Shin if he really is being genuine in wanting us to spare Kanna, and might be enough to convince Gin to not blindly trust Sara. Keiji was the first to vote for Kanna so at this point I doubt anything short of Sara stating that she intends to throw Keiji under the bus during the next Main Game will shake his trust in her.

So, that leaves Sou/Shin as my choice.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


wologar posted:

Why would Sara have such a high chance of victory? If she wasn't player-controlled, I would bet more on Keiji (and Reko) because they seem to be a better mix of cutthroat and friendly.

Keiji has so far done his damnedest to protect Sara come hell or high water (arranged for Sara to receive the Keymaster as part of the first tablet trade, supported Sara when she first started having hallucinations, etc). I'm guessing that during the AI tests Keiji's first priority was keeping Sara safe, only moving onto his own survival after Sara is killed. Whatever the case, it seems like Keiji knows more about Sara than he's letting on and whatever he knows ties into why he's highly interested in Sara's safety.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


...yup, that sure was a bad ending.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


Onmi posted:

Keiji just looks utterly shattered. While it's clear he's protecting Sara and doesn't want her to die, clearly it's not at the expense of everyone else.

Q-Taro is a wreck too what with the look of resignation along with the black bags under his eyes... and then there's the look on Gin's face after what he saw Sara do. Sara just voted for the death of everyone except for herself and Nao scant moments after assuring Gin that it would be OK for him to vote for Kanna. :smith:

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


Mindblast posted:

I'll have to go over this entire trial once again to confirm for sure, but did Nao try to steer towarda this outcome? It didn't seem like it. Once the final situation arrived she tried to use it out of desperation but before then she quietly carried her cross.

Yeah, I think that Nao was resigned to her fate once she was outed as the Sacrifice and Gashu did cranial surgery on himself rather than allow everyone a do-over. Nao had no way of knowing that Kanna and Shin would end up with three votes each but the moment that Nao did realize as much is when she decided she'd ask Sara to vote for her in order to guarantee a three-way tie. Without that initial 3/3 split Nao is done like dinner since she can only get three votes at the most by that point (her two votes plus Sara's vote) and Shin or Kanna would have at least four votes.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


So we're 2 for 3 on floor masters having Sara participate in executions (Sue gave Sara the impossible task of saving Joe, Safalin gave Sara a button that would immediately kill Nao but it never got pressed, Safalin did all of the work in the Massacre ending). Sue might've made Sara a part of Kai's execution if he hadn't spoiled Sue's fun and committed suicide.

Gonna hazard a guess that Shin's day is going to get worse when Safalin gets Sara involved with Kanna's execution as well.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


...well, it looks like we have our new primary antagonist.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


B sounds like the best idea to me.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


WarpDogs posted:

If Sou is alive is he the one we have to hunt? And then maybe we get Kanna's sister as a doll?

Based on the update Sou would act in Kanna's place (so he'd be an option to light the monster on fire) just like Reko would act in Alice's place. Also, based on what Hinako said in that same update the only candidates for puppets would be people who didn't know any of the survivors of the First Trial (Mishima, Nao, Sara, Joe, Shin, Kanna, Keiji, Kai, Q-taro, Gin, Alice, Reko).

So, Kanna's sister is out because she knew Kanna and I guess Megumi was the one who used to be Keiji's boss so she's out as well.

Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


I'm wondering if the final Obstructor challenge will require keeping the targets of all of the previous challenges alive in order to get the ideal 'No One's Turn To Die' solution. Like, failing to save Hayasaka here doesn't immediately result in something bad but during the final challenge Gin ends up dying because his 'partner' isn't there to perform a necessary action.

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Falconer
Dec 7, 2003

Did you know, I was THE MOON once!

Yes! You see, one night it turned out the moon had been STOLEN!

The animal people asked ME to take its place as I am so WISE and BRILLIANT!!


So Komaeda threw down a gun and we don't actually see Keiji pick up, we just get his reaction upon seeing it. Meanwhile there's one doll who isn't sold on this trust and friendship deal who just happens to be paired with Keiji and would survive if he were to die by way of, say, a gunshot.

I guess it's time to see if it's Keiji's Turn To Die.

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