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tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Yeah the logic checks out.

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tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

This is a bit metagamey but the right answer is probably way more nuanced than the binary we're given. Maybe he was a cop before but not anymore? So technically lying

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

The Cask of Amontginado

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Wait, isn't 'Keiji' just another word for policeman? Is he the Japanese equivalent of Constable Constable?

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Thanks for the further translation info, and wow, now this has gotten good. Exploring the murder house was kind of a gong show so I wasn't expecting this to turn into 12 Angry Men on drugs.

E: I guess we're all in agreement that Sou is a turd but his Kai/Sara hate campaign is working because it has some basis in fact. I would also think he was mostly truthful about the contents of the e-mails, especially the bit about how Kai said Sara was eager for the game, obviously itself not true, but in line with how stalkers can project extreme desires onto objects of their attraction (and Keiji said he seemed pretty hosed up). Being obsessed with/determined to protect Sara would also explain his urgency to recover the laptop before his ramblings hurt her, and if we take his complicity in the game to extremes, he could possibly have led Sara to find the keymaster card on purpose. That would also explain someone in the thread's observation that Kai objected to Sou's self-declaration too fast.

Either way it's all word-against-word right now, but like how they talked out the truth-ish behind the Mishima vote, I'm sure all the words will eventually get to a crystal-clear read. :munch:

tomanton fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 13, 2020

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Maybe Kai is the sage? The Keymaster card said "Let no one else know about this card or die" and, despite claiming Sara was the Keymaster he had nothing else to add. But if he is, that safe vote would be kissing any info he had on his former collaborators goodbye.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Since we'll probably never know from the man himself, I wonder if Kai wasn't just insane and Ryoko had something to do with this

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Yeah it was easy to assume something was going on with Kai behind the scenes after that, Q-Taro seems like a totally different person though so who knows.

Kai's monologue there reminded me of a dressing-down of The Hunger Games that I read years ago that was mostly 6,000 words of rambling (cw:rape mention) but had some relevance to the genre and in particular his speech:

:bahgawd: posted:

From the very beginning of the Game it was immediately true that everyone but one got killed. From the very beginning, before anyone dies, you are guilty of everyone's death.

That's the Game. It's not like they went in there thinking, "I'm not going to kill anyone because I am planning to escape this Game." No one backed up their pacifism with suicide. Katniss's thinking is basically, "I'm not butcher, but I am going to try and survive." The movie elevates her passivity into a moral act, which it isn't, that's the trick. This is a closed system. Whether she shoots them down herself or waits for the psychopath in the group to do it for her, it's the same.

Just because the system tells you, "the other tributes are your enemy," doesn't mean it's a factual statement, you have to answer the Thin Red Line question: "who's doing this? Who's killing us?"

The Game is rigged to prevent all choice but allow the illusion of choice. It looks like Katniss is free to make personal decisions, but no matter what her free brain decides, everyone around her dies as planned, huh, that's odd. The only "free" choice, the only way to beat the Game, is not to play. If you really wanted to be a moral agent in such a terrible environment, you'd have to convince the other tributes to all agree not to fight each other, knowing full well that the soldiers will therefore come-- that is the point of the maneuver, to expose the evil of the system instead of allowing them their deniability, "oh, we don't kill anyone, the kids kill each other!" You have to sit there and Prisoner's Dilemna the hell out of this and hope none of the other tributes breaks ranks and opens fire. It is the only anti-system choice short of revolution.
Battle Royale came out in 2000 (i'm old :( ) and THG/Danganronpa 2010ish so we've had plenty of time to dissect the genre, and Kai's bit makes me hopeful that YTTD has more subversion to come.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I don't think Miley's as high on the villain food chain as she makes out to be, and if push comes to shove she might even be disposable or replaceable for whoever's running this nightmare.
Yeah probably. There's been a whole lot of mentions of people we haven't met yet (bar instructions, torn note etc) so while they might be right around the corner, I can't help but wonder if life is at a premium because enough people are already dead.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I bet he just lost his partner to some SAW crap like this and then shot the culprit. A know-it-all told me once that the PTSD batting average for causing someone's death was like 80% so the two-for-one (or one-for-one) probably dunked him.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Had we ever seen Kanna without massive garbage bags under her eyes?

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

The art is creeping up in quality, but what's with the numbers here?:



I know it's fairly common that if a work busts out some kanji that may be new to readers they run a little bit of hiragana alongside so people can tell how to read the letters. Is there a significance? It looks like some of the numbers are partial matches to the sounds, am I imagining something that isn't there

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Thank you for the Japanese lessons everyone. I'm assuming that anyone who got to peep Sara's profile would :yikes: and turn on her

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Tylana posted:

So, the boy cheering Kanna up sure looked like Joe, huh?

Oddly glad you didn't put looking at the item up for a vote. Even though my instincts were screaming to just let it be.
Computer, enhance--



:tinfoil:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Is it pronounced Gin like the liquor or Jean like the pant?

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

What if Not-Reko doesn't understand the significance of the bongos, which Alice would then confirmation bias as fact? Is the beaten-to-death misunderstanding trope about to turn on its head and haunt us? :munch:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

'All your investment was pointless' endings are bad no matter how much lipstick is on the pig

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

The first problem with Kanna came out of well-meaning dishonesty and Sara didn't learn from her mistake.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Gin and maybe we can do something about that doll's creepy gently caress rear end eyes.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I'm assuming Q-Taro was going to pour Sara's me-tokens directly into Sou's gaping mouth or something, which is understandable since Keiji callously cut him from the squad.

In a naming coincidence it reminds me of the opening chapters of Kaiji, where Kaiji forgives a similar betrayal, reasoning "this is a life-or-death game and we're in it for the long haul, i need allies who trust me and they won't do that if i turn my back on people the moment they become a hindrance". We'll see how Keiji's gamesmanship shakes out :munch:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

tomanton posted:

This is a bit metagamey but the right answer is probably way more nuanced than the binary we're given. Maybe he was a cop before but not anymore? So technically lying
My satisfaction at this development was extremely short-lived :ohdear:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I wonder what hot takes Sou is forcing on Kanna and Keiji while they can't go anywhere

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

This game is exactly interesting enough that I await every update but not quite enough where I go looking for spoilers. :munch:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Spare her, I'm metagaming again but push/not push aren't ethical or moral choices, the only way not to play the game is to back up your pacifism with suicide (ie Kai). Sara clearly won't, so it'll be interesting to see if not-Reko jumps, or Nao pushes her instead, or she herself jumps, or nothing happens. The only chance someone else might not play if we don't, so watch and wait.

Also good on the writing to make me catch on that the red text = facts right before they made it explicit.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Oh no doubt not pushing her is 99 percent likely to be a horrible idea; pushing her is 100.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Are we sure Q-Taro and Gin aren't actually dead? That was way too many anime sparkles for people who just got poisoned or something

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Wow, Sara could have just been brain broken and not like... whatever the hell that was, I guess future Safalin choices will be easier now that we have metagame knowledge that she's a weird sex predator or whatever.

I could make my own :words: about the state of the game but that hate-on for THG I am obsessed with from earlier is relevant again:

tomanton posted:

some dude who really hates thg posted:

From the very beginning of the Game it was immediately true that everyone but one got killed. From the very beginning, before anyone dies, you are guilty of everyone's death. This is a closed system. Whether she shoots them down herself or waits for the psychopath in the group to do it for her, it's the same.

It looks like Katniss is free to make personal decisions, but no matter what her free brain decides, everyone around her dies as planned, huh, that's odd. The only "free" choice, the only way to beat the Game, is not to play. If you really wanted to be a moral agent in such a terrible environment, you'd have to convince the other tributes to all agree not to fight each other, knowing full well that the soldiers will therefore come-- that is the point of the maneuver, to expose the evil of the system instead of allowing them their deniability, "oh, we don't kill anyone, the kids kill each other!" You have to sit there and Prisoner's Dilemna the hell out of this and hope none of the other tributes breaks ranks and opens fire. It is the only anti-system choice short of revolution.

The response that this maneuver puts the individual Districts in danger, too, is, unfortunately, part of the deal. The genius of the system is that it never puts everyone at risk, it presents them with a lie: only these Tributes are at risk. If the Districts themselves don't want blowback, "we don't want trouble", if they "want" to maintain the status quo, they have to send people to participate. You don't send a Theseus, you send a Katniss, which they did, hence another round of Hunger Games. She'll look heroic, she'll perform badassly, and nothing will change, which it didn't, which is why even though she won the first movie there was a second movie.
The first bolding is the Q-Taro escape, which while horrible is no worse than the game running its course to a similar result. The second bolding predicted the consequences of not pushing the fake, to the letter, exposing Rio as too evil for even his creator.

I left out the third paragraph the last time I fawned over this but now I can't help but wonder if the parallels continue. Districts = families? We know the Satou and Chidouin clans are neck-deep in whatever this is, the organization knew exactly which screwballs they were sending because they've been following them for years, and thanks to Keiji we know this isn't the first death game. :munch:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I bet it kills Q-Taro for some reason solely because IIRC his body position was different in the chapter teaser. Metagaming so what :colbert:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I assumed Receptionist Dad's button there said 'pa' for the obvious joke, instead it says 'po' apparently. Fluent goons what is the meaning of this, hello???

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

So Ranger is hosed either way because:

Fake spared -> he contrives a situation to force the fake's death anyways but also hands out a knife for some reason -> a human dies through his negligence
Fake killed -> he... has a spare severed head prop we've been told are extremely time-consuming to make and blows it up? -> a human dies through his unauthorized cruelty

The closure for the dumb bongos thing isn't a point in this outcome's favor because a player might not have pursued that, but Ranger's mention the floor masters being tested too is interesting. If Keiji's inside-man theory is correct could it possibly be Sue? We know she's 1) human 2) probably not a weird pervert 3) didn't kill anyone for attacking her more than once 4) gave Sara that paper. If doing her floor earned her the trust it took to pull that off, I hope it and Alice's continued survival count towards eventually figuring Sou out.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Good placings of the names to faces, it's nice they went to the trouble of making designs for everyone, and in a way the office dude looking normal and boring was perfect.

I wanna know why he knew about Sara and nobody else did, but that she's connected to the game shouldn't be news to Keiji, who absolutely used this to get away with vigilante killing. Maybe Nao will read the lips somehow since it's been foreshadowed she's super attentive to details.

Also wondering who's on the other side of that glass. Sue Miley? Kai?

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Why doesn't she hang back with Q-Taro, who hasn't consented to wherever he's about to be taken? Worst-case the sacrifice's chance of survival is 100% with 2 players

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

tomanton posted:

Keiji, who absolutely used this to get away with vigilante killing.
Keiji my man this is your time. Burn X minutes off the plot clock discussing your motives in a first trial of no relevance to the current game. Or maybe that's something he can use to his advantage? Be like 'yep next question' and move on

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

quote:


Is this too obvious? :tinfoil:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I want the speculation that this all is someone's grief processing re-enactment to be true, as all the other stories I've seen of that (Liar Game and As The Death God Dictates) have handled it pretty badly and my hope would be YTTD does it better.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

There was like a ton of new and actually good music in this one.

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

They really needed to make her reaction to being voted into the final selection not identical to Joe's. Hopefully this scans :confuoot:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

I assume that the correct anti-system choice at this point would be for everyone to put their lives on the line and vote Sacrifice. That the floor masters have let this game go on despite the 'transgression' must mean it doesn't necessarily matter. If the gang reasons out the identity of the sacrifice to avoid them then it's business as usual, but if they figure out the identity of the Sacrifice because of the transgression and then voted for them because it would be a middle finger to the floor master who set them up to die, I imagine that would close the circuit and encourage postponement.

Of course the game could pull some arbitrary nonsense like the poison dart thing but it'd be cool to see some real guts :black101:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Don't suppose there's a way to ask Nao to save Gin instead is there :supaburn:

tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

differentiating posted:

Gashu's clue makes me feel even more strongly that being a candidate is related to parentage - with both Kanna and Q-Taro being orphans, and Sara and Gin's fathers not being their biological fathers, we already have a good number of people whose background is set up for a big twist. Who knows how many of the others are in similar boats?

If they were all half-siblings and this was for the inheritance it would be extremely messed up, particularly for the collateral damage. Somehow I doubt there's a way out for Nao regardless of the ending

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tomanton
May 22, 2006

beam me up, tomato

Carry the dolls and save battery or something!!! I'm amazed how Keiji continues to be alive in spite of how useful he is. Maybe the loss of Joe is currency in the faithful ally bank

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