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Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

LegoMan posted:

The stealth ship fight was pretty awesome

that bit where the round plows through Naomi's HUD and misses her head by inches was p. harrowing

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TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


I loving love PDCs, could watch them all day long.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


The battle at Thoth Station is easily the best fight in the entire series because it's one of the few opportunities where you're fighting at whites of their eyes range. That means the shot can get foregrounded or backgrounded by the station, loud flashy PDCs are useful, and you instantly see the battle damage pop up as the ships rake each other.

And it reinforces that the best way to win a fight is to start with the initiative, you barrel in while the enemy is unprepared and not even suited up. RIP Donnager.

WilWheaton
Oct 11, 2006

Oh my god it's Hitler's dog!



I kinda wish the fight where the roci saves the razorback wasn't spread out over the whole episode

There used to be a good compacted edit of it on youtube, its a great fight with some intelligent thinking

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


I haven't seen all of s4 yet (working on it) but I've read all the books and so far, I've been honestly the most disappointed by the battles. The books really captured this feeling of insane scale that the show doesn't. That contrast is everywhere between the twk, but shows most strongly in the space battles, I think.

They're still a lot of fun and some drat good sci-fi, but the sheer scale of things is missing a bit.

E: the description of each BSG episode being great but the whole thing being a disjointed mess is spot on. So gently caress yeah they have some gorgeous space fights.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


The best part of the Stealth Ship fight is that Alex went into it knowing that he shouldn't win, he won, then he kept repeating the sims because he couldn't accept that he was either incredibly lucky or the opponent screwed up and it was entirely out of his control

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS



How can you post this and not include the following shot of the bullets penetrating through the Roci's compartment, leaving trails of superheated metal particles? That was pretty good for pushing home that military ships in the expanse are not armored space tanks, but tin cans with guns strapped on.

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

my favorite Rocinante scene is when Naomi activates the remote PDCs when they're on the surface and it's like, oh, these may look and sound like popguns in space battles but they're are actually humongous murder cannons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRz-gfTGWec

edit: lol I'm reading now it's a 40mm cannon, that's why

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS


That's my second favorite showcase of the Roci too. That and the torpedo launch in season 4 really hammers home that our plucky independent heroes are flying around with an arsenal that, while normal for space combat, is the kind of stuff that only present-day superpowers could field.

Slashrat fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Oct 18, 2020

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Slashrat posted:

That's my second favorite showcase of the Roci too. That and the torpedo launch in season 4 really hammers home that our plucky independent heroes are flying around with an arsenal that, while normal for space combat, is the kind of stuff that only present-day superpowers could field.

The Gang Acquires An Arleigh Burke-Class Destroyer

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




Pattonesque posted:

The Gang Acquires An Arleigh Burke-Class Destroyer

That's basically what they did, steal a bleeding edge warship from the system's premier naval power. All the pirates and militias don't have PDCs and torpedo tubes, everyone not a professional navy is stuck with random poo poo they bolted to a freighter.

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009
DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL



They didn't steal anything, it was legitimate salvage.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

It says so right on the plaque

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Crazycryodude posted:

That's basically what they did, steal a bleeding edge warship from the system's premier naval power. All the pirates and militias don't have PDCs and torpedo tubes, everyone not a professional navy is stuck with random poo poo they bolted to a freighter.

I also like how this means they have to really pick their battles because they can't just pull into drydock and refill on PDC rounds and torpedos

SpaceCommie
Oct 2, 2008

I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by Capitalism ...

SPACE!



OK, I'd forgotten how good the space battles looked in BSG so I might need to just rewatch the whole thing again now ...

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


BSG changed VFX studios between Seasons 2 and 3, and honestly the later seasons aren't as impressive in the same way. Resurrection Ship Part 2 is the highlight because of the lighting and its set against the pitch black of space. The models just never looked quite as good as they did then imo. The battle in the neubla is cool but by Daybreak it feels like they're cutting corners on some of the CGI models.

The Expanse has to dump a lot more money into more sets and Avasarala's wardrobe so I think that probably cuts into the CGI budget some. I thought everything took a step up last season though.

If you are hankering for watching BSG space battles, there's a decent game BSG Deadlock that's set during the First Cylon War. They just finished adding DLC to the game and the last ship pack includes both modern battlestars (Mercury and Valkyrie).

CommanderApaul
Aug 30, 2003

It's amazing their hands can support such awesome.


SpaceCommie posted:

OK, I'd forgotten how good the space battles looked in BSG so I might need to just rewatch the whole thing again now ...

It holds up quite well, both effects wise and story wise. The back half of S3 still feels like a bit of a mess (looking at you The Woman King), but everything mostly fits together. I think the holes in the story and the sometimes wild swings in character motivations and how they behave towards each other were less noticeable when you were waiting a week between episodes though.

My wife and I have been going through it the last couple months after a double birthday happenstance*, and have been quite enjoying it. Until she got pissed when Kara showed back up at the end of season 3 (again). And I've been listening to the Galacticast Podcast that Tricia Helfer has been doing and that has been fun after I listened to RDMs commentary when they originally aired.

I still can't get her into The Expanse. Maybe I'll try again after we're done with BSG, we just started S4.

*Happenstance: Our birthdays are 12 days apart, and we, independent of each other, got Cameos from each other's favorite actors for the others birthday this year.

gfarrell80
Aug 31, 2006


Nail Rat posted:

Realtalk the Adama Maneuver is something the Expanse hasn't come close to matching even though the Expanse is my favorite sci fi show.

As others have said... IMHO the Adama Manuver was poo poo compared to the Thoth Station stealth frigate vs. Rocinante battle. Several of the smaller-scale person to person gunbattle scenes have had the same level of intensity throughout the seasons, but for space ship to ship combat they haven't quite hit that same high note again. Looks like season 5 might have some ship-to-ship action, hopefully they can ratchet it up again.

Just finished a re-watch of season 4. 2nding how cool it was seeing the Rocci using its cannons while landed in atmosphere. Also, the visual effects team did a freakin' superb job with pretty much all the Illus outdoor environments.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


I would sacrifice every space battle if Avasarala got an even bigger wardrobe tbh, everything she wears is amazing

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Eej posted:

I would sacrifice every space battle if Avasarala got an even bigger wardrobe tbh, everything she wears is amazing

They should have a making of special that just covers her wardrobe selections

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

You're not getting another fucking dime from us, Lowtax

For shame that this discussion got this far without the Maneo Manuver

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Crazycryodude posted:

That's basically what they did, steal a bleeding edge warship from the system's premier naval power. All the pirates and militias don't have PDCs and torpedo tubes, everyone not a professional navy is stuck with random poo poo they bolted to a freighter.

The belt is a bunch of Toyotas with 50cals strapped to the bed, while Holden and Co basically stole a Coast Guard Cutter and then found some blackmarket shells for the big gun.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord


I'm really glad about this, and other shows ought to start doing this too.

It's honestly kind of hosed up how much the concept of "binging" has permeated pop culture as a good thing, when you think about it.

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know


I thought the big gun was courtesy of Earth for their mission through the rings.

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



According to the books the railgun happened because the crew was flush with cash and Amos and Alex though "man a railgun would be wicked sweet." Plus rounds for it were cheaper and easier to come by than torpedoes.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


As always Alex and Amos were right.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Ya. They can just make more railgun rounds in the machine shop as long as they got the metal.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

Space bullets are probably pretty easy to make anyway, since you don't have to worry about aerodynamics.

Krazyface
Jul 15, 2011

A: to get those sweet first-place bonus points



Hair Elf

Does making a space-bullet pointy affect its ballistic properties in any way? Or is the amount of energy involved so enormous that it doesn't matter?

Slashrat
Jun 6, 2011

YOSPOS


It might affect its ability to penetrate material upon impact, but I get the impression that armor penetration isn't a significant concern in 99.99% of scenarios you will use a railgun in; it's going to punch a hole regardless of how it is shaped.

The only other area where the shape is a factor is if you're planning to fire down through an atmosphere. Out in the vacuum of space there's no aerodynamics to worry about, so it could be any silly shape you care to make it, as long as it physically fits within the railgun itself and has sensible center-of-mass (being symmetrical along the firing axis is the obvious way to achieve this).

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.



Projectile shape isn't gonna matter a lick when accelerated it to a reasonable percentage of C
Although it would matter wrt lithobraking

sir issac newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

MA-Horus posted:

Projectile shape isn't gonna matter a lick when accelerated it to a reasonable percentage of C
Although it would matter wrt lithobraking

sir issac newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space

They still make them aerodynamic on Earth, but in space I think they'd just be a sphere or whatever is easiest to fit in the launcher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QqOvFMG_A

As you can see, however, the projectile sits in a "plug" so that it doesn't move out of position in the barrel.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Fister Roboto posted:

Space bullets are probably pretty easy to make anyway, since you don't have to worry about aerodynamics.

Railgun rounds in the Expanse are unguided so it's literally just a hunk of metal that fits in the barrel and is affected by magnets. Definitely the easiest thing to get more ammo for. The PDC rounds are more complex since they're bullets, you need to have the materials for casings, the explosives, etc. Doable but you'd have to have a bunch of equipment and supplies. And torpedoes are big complex machines that wouldn't be practical to make on the ship.

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.



Yeah it's just tungsten or some other similarly magnetic dense material. Probably not tungsten carbide though, too brittle.
Or, you make the penetrator tungsten and core it with tungsten carbide so you get some spalling + shrapnel on penetration.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Right there could be some complex engineering to maximize damage on impact, even if it's just inert metal. But if you needed to you could just run slugs of tungsten through it.

Of course when you really look into it there's the fact that if impact velocity is over IIRC 4 km/s, it no longer matters because whatever you're hitting it with just explodes into a plasma immediately. At those speeds you just want to throw as much mass as you can. The railgun round punching a neat hole right through the ship is cool, but it wouldn't actually do that.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




I think PDC rounds are actually little micro rockets instead of bullets so you don't have to deal with recoil, Gyrojet style, that's why there's that flash coming out the back of the gun. So they're presumably even harder to get than 40mm autocannon rounds would be.

CommanderApaul
Aug 30, 2003

It's amazing their hands can support such awesome.


Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

For shame that this discussion got this far without the Maneo Manuver

Love that Belter Twitch is called "Showxating"

GuardianOfAsgaard
Feb 1, 2012

Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods


Crazycryodude posted:

I think PDC rounds are actually little micro rockets instead of bullets so you don't have to deal with recoil, Gyrojet style, that's why there's that flash coming out the back of the gun. So they're presumably even harder to get than 40mm autocannon rounds would be.

I thought I read somewhere that they are traditional autocannons, but with a little thruster on the back of the gun that fires in the opposite direction to the recoil to counter it.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




Ah yeah maybe, that would make sense too, I assumed the bullets were glowing because they each had a tiny rocket motor. Then the question is "why are all your bullets tracers, nobody is using their eyeballs to aim" but whatever it looks cool

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Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011





It's possible they're also using depleted uranium and one of the reasons for depressurizing for combat is to avoid the pyrophoric properties of uranium dust.

(For those who haven't heard of this, uranium is pyrophoric, meaning that it rather rapidly burns in contact with air. Depleted uranium projectiles that penetrate armour fragment and release a bunch of dust with a bunch of heat due to said impact. You then have a very angry, fast-moving, self-igniting cloud of uranium dust inside your cabin.)

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