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Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Zotix posted:

So he 5'd chessed poo poo like weeks in advance?

Yeah that's why when the Roci survived the ambushed Marco was irritated he couldn't deal with it because they were on a schedule (unless I'm remembering the vibe wrong).

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Karma Comedian
Feb 2, 2012

Dr. E/N, PhD




He squints all the time like Rick Grimes when he's been thinkin

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Dalael posted:

Say anything about Holden, but his face when first seing peaches in the last episode was

I like Amos using the past story from season 1 to create a Fait Accompli.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.


CainsDescendant posted:

That one really worked for me, actually. The nature of space combat being tin cans with glocks taped to them means even a little ship can cause a hell of a lot of damage if the people flying it have no sense of self preservation. The political pressure on the warships in orbit to be ready to shoot each other to bits despite them being roughly evenly matched makes even a clumsy threat from a lone rogue gunship worth taking seriously.

Exactly, it's one thing for them to fire off a missile and destroy an unarmed refugee ship, but now that there's a credible threat of someone shooting back - while you're already target locking a huge hostile force and counting out every shot for them - then maybe you just decide to let this one slide.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Zotix posted:

So he 5'd chessed poo poo like weeks in advance?

Yeah, you see it on a map in Inaros' ship an episode or two before then. Orbits are nice and predictable, a ship staying stationary relative to the ring is a very easy target.

The timeline in the show isn't clear but in the book version Marco started launching asteroids at Earth at least a year before the first one hits. He's able to pull off long term plans sometimes.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Lol imagine if Earth had capitulated

Marco would be flipping out sending hulks and boulders and poo poo into intersecting paths to try to soak up the rocks before they hit their targets

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.


Nail Rat posted:

Bunch of blade boys humping shank? What does that even mean?


It seemed like a good place for him to go out IMO. He had no home anymore, and it's not like he would have been particularly useful on the Roci. What could he do? Fly? No. Fix stuff? Hell no. Definitely not weapon operation of anything with battle tactics. And he's not very good with a gun, either. He's just a cop and not good for much else.

One of the best bits of writing in this entire thing is the moment Miller realizes ďoh wait, you didnít give me this case because Iím the cynical experienced guy whoís better than all these other cops and you knew Iíd solve it, you gave me this case because Iím the station joke and Iím nowhere near as hot poo poo as I think I am and you just wanted it to look like you were doing something.Ē Itís an unusual defying of the noir tropes they were starting off with.

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

You're not getting another fucking dime from us, Lowtax

I think it's weird to bag on Holden because he hasn't read enough theory to have some unified ideology beyond "murder is bad." Every one of his actions seems to flow from a very logical place based on the consequences of his previous actions.

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

Phanatic posted:

One of the best bits of writing in this entire thing is the moment Miller realizes ďoh wait, you didnít give me this case because Iím the cynical experienced guy whoís better than all these other cops and you knew Iíd solve it, you gave me this case because Iím the station joke and Iím nowhere near as hot poo poo as I think I am and you just wanted it to look like you were doing something.Ē Itís an unusual defying of the noir tropes they were starting off with.

Yeah, that really fucks him up. I think that is partly what fires him up into the Julie delusions. He was hallucinating her, and before her, his ex-wife was the imaginary tut-tut-ing figure. Seems like he had ghosts haunting him way before our story kicks off.

Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I think it's weird to bag on Holden because he hasn't read enough theory to have some unified ideology beyond "murder is bad." Every one of his actions seems to flow from a very logical place based on the consequences of his previous actions.

He's on such a seesaw.

Murder bad! - Beginning

well, murder bad, murder bad man ok. - Eros

Murder bad man good, murder bad! - Ganymede

Murder bad man bad! - McMurty

Cannon_Fodder fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 26, 2021

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


CainsDescendant posted:

That one really worked for me, actually. The nature of space combat being tin cans with glocks taped to them means even a little ship can cause a hell of a lot of damage if the people flying it have no sense of self preservation. The political pressure on the warships in orbit to be ready to shoot each other to bits despite them being roughly evenly matched makes even a clumsy threat from a lone rogue gunship worth taking seriously.

That's fair. Even the battleships are kinda glass cannons, and there's nothing to really make it worth the risk. The fact that the threat works isn't really what bugs me. Holden's talking like the Roci is some kind of unique super-ship, which would be relatively true if he were addressing a bunch of civilian ships, but is a weird choice when he's calling all the ships that outmatch his.
Mainly, though, something about the phrasing just gives me a strong sounded-better-in-my-head vibe that's hard to get past.

Anita Dickinme
Jan 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Didnít they say in season 1 that the Roci was the most advanced ship in the Martian fleet which in turn would mean the most advanced ship in existence? That would at least give me a pause for thought.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Phanatic posted:

One of the best bits of writing in this entire thing is the moment Miller realizes ďoh wait, you didnít give me this case because Iím the cynical experienced guy whoís better than all these other cops and you knew Iíd solve it, you gave me this case because Iím the station joke and Iím nowhere near as hot poo poo as I think I am and you just wanted it to look like you were doing something.Ē Itís an unusual defying of the noir tropes they were starting off with.

Plus much of season 1 was Miller getting played like when Dawes captures him and then dunks on him.

Miller getting sent on wild goose chase with missing facts and having employer with ulterior motives is a classic film noir setup.

The whole setup showing even at his Space Cop job at Star Helix he was a "Needs Improvement" bucket employee hence the perfect pick to lead a dead end investigation.

etalian fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Feb 26, 2021

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Anita Dickinme posted:

Didnít they say in season 1 that the Roci was the most advanced ship in the Martian fleet which in turn would mean the most advanced ship in existence? That would at least give me a pause for thought.

It's a secret squirrel ship.

It's advanced as hell, but a Donnager would poo poo all over it

Anita Dickinme
Jan 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

BrotherJayne posted:

It's a secret squirrel ship.

It's advanced as hell, but a Donnager would poo poo all over it

Fair enough. Even so with how the ship battles are the Roci could possibly take out a Donnager or two with a great pilot/crew and luck as we saw when the Roci fought the stealth ship in season 1.

Bedshaped
Apr 1, 2010




Soiled Meat

The smooth part of my brain just wants to see James Holden and Marco Inaros having a last stand fighting hand to hand with their shirts off on a mountain top.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Bedshaped posted:

The smooth part of my brain just wants to see James Holden and Marco Inaros having a last stand fighting hand to hand with their shirts off on a mountain top.

Did Peaches or Maneo win the best eye roll face-off?

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


Iirc the roci was designed at the same time as the donnager class as a companion ship, so it definitely is more dangerous than its size would imply.

bou
Aug 3, 2006



Holden's role is perfectly described in the threadtitle. Also, if he were british, he would be Arthur Dent.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Anita Dickinme posted:

Didnít they say in season 1 that the Roci was the most advanced ship in the Martian fleet which in turn would mean the most advanced ship in existence? That would at least give me a pause for thought.

Not that I can recall. Definitely not in the books. It's state-of-the-art for a ship of its size and role at the start of the series, but it's not unique or anything, and it's on the small end of navy ships we've seen.

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

Toast Museum posted:

Not that I can recall. Definitely not in the books. It's state-of-the-art for a ship of its size and role at the start of the series, but it's not unique or anything, and it's on the small end of navy ships we've seen.

It's top notch, but if it isn't a packing stealth tech, I would hesitate to say it's the most advanced anything.

They did add a railgun though, so that's unique.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



The miller hat was amazing especially how they made a small cat sized one for the feline themed season 1 re-cap.

SpaceCommie
Oct 2, 2008

I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by Capitalism ...

SPACE!



Alex literally calls Holden out: "You know, someone's gonna try and test us right?"

And Holden replies: "Nah, they're saving their bullets for each other"

The Roci doesn't have to be a supership for the fleets to just decide it's not worth the hassle of trying to take it out.

The plan is 100% this:

Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

Exactly, it's one thing for them to fire off a missile and destroy an unarmed refugee ship, but now that there's a credible threat of someone shooting back - while you're already target locking a huge hostile force and counting out every shot for them - then maybe you just decide to let this one slide.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I think it's weird to bag on Holden because he hasn't read enough theory to have some unified ideology beyond "murder is bad." Every one of his actions seems to flow from a very logical place based on the consequences of his previous actions.

Ty talked about this a bit on the last podcast, basically Holden's thing is he can't stand unfairness and he does things without thinking them through.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008



Grand Fromage posted:

Ty talked about this a bit on the last podcast, basically Holden's thing is he can't stand unfairness and he does things without thinking them through.

And the early story doesn't give him much time. Everything up to meeting Fred Johnson is 'do the thing that keeps us alive for another five minutes'. Then from Fred to Ceres its 'everyone else will lock you up if they catch you, your only hope is to solve the mystery of the Anubis'.

Only after Ceres does Holden go full Captain Ahab on the protomolecule hunt, and that's kinda understandable given that he just barely escapes a genocide perpetrated by the people using it.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Alchenar posted:

And the early story doesn't give him much time. Everything up to meeting Fred Johnson is 'do the thing that keeps us alive for another five minutes'. Then from Fred to Ceres its 'everyone else will lock you up if they catch you, your only hope is to solve the mystery of the Anubis'.

Only after Ceres does Holden go full Captain Ahab on the protomolecule hunt, and that's kinda understandable given that he just barely escapes a genocide perpetrated by the people using it.

My fav Holden and also comedy scene is when he has that ship all hands meeting just to disclose that he's banging Naomi.

Anita Dickinme
Jan 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

etalian posted:

My fav Holden and also comedy scene is when he has that ship all hands meeting just to disclose that he's banging Naomi.



Just watched this last week and I died laughing. Iím so glad I decided to rewatch this show.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Anita Dickinme posted:

Just watched this last week and I died laughing. Iím so glad I decided to rewatch this show.

Yea i'm going to keep my Amazon Prime another month so I can rewatch the series.

down1nit
Jan 9, 2004

outlive your enemies

It's the best series. Good choice.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


CainsDescendant posted:

That one really worked for me, actually. The nature of space combat being tin cans with glocks taped to them means even a little ship can cause a hell of a lot of damage if the people flying it have no sense of self preservation. The political pressure on the warships in orbit to be ready to shoot each other to bits despite them being roughly evenly matched makes even a clumsy threat from a lone rogue gunship worth taking seriously.

Aside from everything else, if you're captain of one of the other ships and you receive Holden's message, your first thought is probably "this guy is crazy," which is a good encouragement to everyone to let him be somebody else's problem.

It's like two gangs in a stand-off and a kid with a grenade suddenly runs in between them. The likely response is going to be incredulity, following by hoping that if you ignore the kid he'll go away without throwing the grenade, or hoping that the other gang will do something to get him to throw the grenade at them and give you a big advantage when a fight breaks out.

Data Graham posted:

Lol imagine if Earth had capitulated

Marco would be flipping out sending hulks and boulders and poo poo into intersecting paths to try to soak up the rocks before they hit their targets

Hardly. He sends Earth complete trajectory information on the remaining rocks. None of the impacts had any effect on the orbiting defenses, they just couldn't see the incoming rocks to target them.

If he really trusts Earth and Mars, he also warns them to move their ships on station outside the Ring. Problem solved with minimal effort on his part. Aside from stealth coating rocks, it's war on the cheap.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Pretty sure Marco would still kill a lot of Inners because that's what his ego demands and the legend he is trying to build needs.

Okay, decided to start my rewatch tonight. Have to admit they do a real effective job at setting up this world in like 3 minutes.

EDIT: I forgot the black keys were over the blurried nipples scene. Also I remember when first watching it wondering if Jonathan Banks was going to be a bigger part of the show, and also the ceremony Holden has with coffee was going to be a character trait. No, he just likes coffee is all that survives.

Also afte rseason 5, Rip all those people living in the super cool sci-fi Manhatten.

twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 28, 2021

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know


twistedmentat posted:

Pretty sure Marco would still kill a lot of Inners because that's what his ego demands and the legend he is trying to build needs.

Okay, decided to start my rewatch tonight. Have to admit they do a real effective job at setting up this world in like 3 minutes.

EDIT: I forgot the black keys were over the blurried nipples scene. Also I remember when first watching it wondering if Jonathan Banks was going to be a bigger part of the show, and also the ceremony Holden has with coffee was going to be a character trait. No, he just likes coffee is all that survives.

Also afte rseason 5, Rip all those people living in the super cool sci-fi Manhatten.

Yeah, I think the idea is that Holden loves coffee, but there is no good coffee in space, but Martian Navy vessels have the real deal, so it was setting up that if for no other reason, Holden is happy because he has his coffee.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



swickles posted:

Yeah, I think the idea is that Holden loves coffee, but there is no good coffee in space, but Martian Navy vessels have the real deal, so it was setting up that if for no other reason, Holden is happy because he has his coffee.

Yea when he looks into the fridge and sees like a dozen bags of good coffee he looks so happy.

Also ugh having your shower shut off when you have that much soap on you, poor Miller.

It was funny when playing Ghost of Tsushima when Francois Chau shows up, it was when I realized the character models were based on the voice actors.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008



Oh poo poo I just looked up Chau on wikipedia and he was Vagabond! That's where he looked familiar from!

Dr. Clockwork
Sep 9, 2011

I'LL PUT MY SCIENCE IN ALL OF YOU!

It took me a few episodes of scratching my head before I realized heís the guy in the Dharma Initiative instructional videos on Lost.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



He makes a very good looking Samurai
https://youtu.be/MqDOI6B6B08?t=168

Heh I like Space Tindr, and Julie Mao's username is Delightingale.

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

He's also the Chinese ambassador in Stargate

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Captain Splendid posted:

He's also the Chinese ambassador in Stargate

Oh yea, that's probably the first place I saw him.

I love how everything about when they're brought about the Donnager says "these are the bad guys"; everything is stark, black and reds, the marines and officers all look like they serve Palpatine, they treat the crew like they're one second away from blowing their brains out, but nope.

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

Stargate did always seem a bit too far-fetched for me

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



twistedmentat posted:

Heh I like Space Tindr, and Julie Mao's username is Delightingale.

Imagine all the right swiping she got on Space Tindr before getting turned into a human proto-molecule.

My interests include space racing and OPA activism !

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Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






etalian posted:

Imagine all the right swiping she got on Space Tindr before getting turned into a human proto-molecule.

My interests include space racing and OPA activism !

Iím imagining that as the tagline for an obvious Space FBI honeypot.

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