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Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002



Does anybody know where saves are stored to transfer them between the EGS and Steam versions?

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NObodyNOWHERE
Apr 24, 2007

Now we are all sons of bitches.


Hell Gem

thebardyspoon posted:

Is there a list of the things you get for giving ambrosia (I think that's what it's called) to people? Only got one from beating the boss of the 3rd area (and then went on to beat the game that go) and it was tough enough that I'm not sure when I'll get another.

Do people care about spoilers for stuff like this?

Ambrosia is used to get legendary keepsakes from a few NPCs after you have their relationship meter very high. There are other requirements to get it done too, but gifting the ambrosia gets the actual prize. So far there's one for Meg, Sisyphus, Thanatos and Skelly. You can also use ambrosia to level up these keepsakes after you get them. Lastly, you can continue to build the relationship meter and get the last parts of each NPC story using ambrosia. Nectar won't cut it after the first ambrosia.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!


thebardyspoon posted:

Is there a list of the things you get for giving ambrosia (I think that's what it's called) to people? Only got one from beating the boss of the 3rd area (and then went on to beat the game that go) and it was tough enough that I'm not sure when I'll get another.

An important point for drops like this: each boss drop is technically a 1-time reward; but every weapon tracks these rewards separately. So after getting the drop from the first boss using a sword, for example, if you clear the first boss using the shield it will get you the drop again, and so on for all five weapons.

As you've beaten the game then you'll have noticed the Pact of Punishment in front of the starting window that also allows you to refresh rewards; if you've got a full run using a weapon, increasing the heat by 1 point by taking on a challenge resets all the rewards. Increasing the heat to 2 total after a heat 1 clear will do the same, and so on. This is also tracked separately for each weapon.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Anyone had any luck with Zeus? His boons seem pretty bad across the board, as they seem to focus on Aoe damage, but most weapons have some sort of better solution for that through their Daedalus upgrades.

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


Broken Cog posted:

Anyone had any luck with Zeus? His boons seem pretty bad across the board, as they seem to focus on Aoe damage, but most weapons have some sort of better solution for that through their Daedalus upgrades.

I just like his Cast, personally. Real good for damaging large amounts of weak enemies. The rest of the stuff is a bit eh. The special can be alright with certain weapons (pretty decent with sword, for instance) but overall not exactly my fave.

Better than Dionysus at least. Poison is just not strong enough even if you stack it real high.

Meiteron
Apr 4, 2008

Whoa! You're gonna be a legend!


One of the lingering issues of run progression I've found is that enemy health goes way up from the third region onwards and way more enemies start with armor as well. Zeus and Dionysus boons can get you up to the third, but then their efficacy drops off a very high cliff. It's fine to make enemies scale, but certain boons just can't keep up even if you invest in them.

You can still make Zeus work sort of through appropriate pom upgrades and buffing the raw attack power but Poison is pretty much a trap as a sole source of damage.

Wahad
May 19, 2011



Everything by design.


Finally got past the bone hydra with Varatha, using Aphrodite's Cast + Doom on Attack and a bunch of buffs to cast and attack damage (+maxed out boiling blood), after a handful of frustrating gameovers against said bone hydra...only to then breeze past the third boss and almost finish the run. Man, I love this drat game.

OutOfPrint
Apr 9, 2009



Fun Shoe

Meiteron posted:

One of the lingering issues of run progression I've found is that enemy health goes way up from the third region onwards and way more enemies start with armor as well. Zeus and Dionysus boons can get you up to the third, but then their efficacy drops off a very high cliff. It's fine to make enemies scale, but certain boons just can't keep up even if you invest in them.

You can still make Zeus work sort of through appropriate pom upgrades and buffing the raw attack power but Poison is pretty much a trap as a sole source of damage.

Zeus's AOE is pretty good once its bumped enough. Jolt makes it a lot more powerful. His lightning bolt on attack blessing seems like it stacks with other attack blessings, like Artemis's arrow blessing, so getting both is a solid damage increase.

Poison works well with the blessing that makes poison do +100% damage in Festive Fog and the hammer upgrade for the rail gun that turns it into a shotgun. Shooting 5 bullets at a time means enemies hit max poison stacks on the first attack.

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

OutOfPrint posted:

Poison works well with the blessing that makes poison do +100% damage in Festive Fog and the hammer upgrade for the rail gun that turns it into a shotgun. Shooting 5 bullets at a time means enemies hit max poison stacks on the first attack.

Imo if you have the bow or the gun and get the right hammer upgrades and get a whole bunch of really specific/high level blessings and boons and and play well real you can win with poison

but in general it doesnt scale enough for act 3 +

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Broken Cog posted:

Anyone had any luck with Zeus? His boons seem pretty bad across the board, as they seem to focus on Aoe damage, but most weapons have some sort of better solution for that through their Daedalus upgrades.

Zeus's upgrades are adders to a hit. Attacks with a single strong hit benefit less from them than attacks with multiple weak hits. Flurry spear is good with Zeus attack, spin spear is bad. He's great in a duo because he just spits out more lightning and you've probably buffed that already.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Missing one character, the second one in the "Others" category. I believe it is Orpheus though I haven't seen anything of him even if some characters have mentioned him at times. Anyone know how to get him to show up/where to find him?

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

Hm...



Broken Cog posted:

Missing one character, the second one in the "Others" category. I believe it is Orpheus though I haven't seen anything of him even if some characters have mentioned him at times. Anyone know how to get him to show up/where to find him?

You have to pay a diamond to the contractor to release him from eternal punishment. It's just one of the random options that can show up.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Is there any way to see the renovations I've already purchased? I've forgotten what the various "receive [run item] when you pick up [upgrade item]" renovations do.

Also, I'm terrible with the Abyss Sword because I generally take enough chip damage in Elysium and the surface that I can't make it through the final boss fight (especially with the huge range on the spin attack).

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Begemot posted:

You have to pay a diamond to the contractor to release him from eternal punishment. It's just one of the random options that can show up.

Ah, perfect. Cheers!

NObodyNOWHERE
Apr 24, 2007

Now we are all sons of bitches.


Hell Gem

Mr.Unique-Name posted:

Does anybody know where saves are stored to transfer them between the EGS and Steam versions?

Look in your Documents folder. Should be in Saved Games.

Stickman posted:

Is there any way to see the renovations I've already purchased? I've forgotten what the various "receive [run item] when you pick up [upgrade item]" renovations do.

I don't think they have a list anywhere, but you should be able to see when you're getting the bonus on a pickup. If you look in the little pop-up box when you're next to the item, it will show both the main item and bonus.

The upgrade item pickups are like so (room and boon rewards only):

Keys give bonus +1 Fated Authority
Nectar gives bonus level +1 to random boon (like a free Pom)
Gemstones give bonus coin (can't remember the amount - maybe +10?)
Darkness gives bonus +5 max health

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012


I have to say I'm pretty impressed with this. I haven't had fun with the actual gameplay of a super giant game since Bastion. All the weapons are fun to use and each one having it's own alt fires works well with the boon system.


The roguelike framing also works well with super giant's style of story telling and world building.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

A lot of stuff to like, great aesthetics and characters as usual, and as a whole the game is decent. All the Isaac inspired abilities/powerups/collection combined with a weapon system is great, they manage to homogenize a lot of stuff without making it boring and samey. Reminds me a lot of Bastion in that regard. It's a shame the defensive aspects of combat were inspired by Gungeon's boring gameplay. I'm fairly convinced at this point that iframe dodges are just inherently a bad idea in 2d games. You can see so many places they tried to do something interesting with the AI, but very little of it winds up being interesting in gameplay because you just iframe your way through everything.

K8.0 fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 18, 2019

Tellaris
Dec 23, 2005


Cat On Rope Entertainment: Random comments since 2004



Zeus gets bonkers good on things that hit fast with low damage since he adds flat damage. His bolts on strong attack make the bow spread go from 10 damage per arrow to 60 damage per arrow, which melts stuff real good. If you get his legendary boon, all bolt attacks add an additional explosion which gets real goofy real fast. The rifle with all the zeus upgrades will literally kill everything short of a boss before it can walk to you. Its nuts.

NObodyNOWHERE
Apr 24, 2007

Now we are all sons of bitches.


Hell Gem

Yeah, it's good stuff. I shied away from Zeus for a while, but I've had consistently amazing runs focused on lightning and jolt when I've gone for it. Have you done a Zeus run with Chiron aspect on the bow? Oh my!

I love that really everything is viable and can feel powerful in this game. I also love how everybody (including me) has a concrete idea of what is definitely and obviously a 100% lock for the best weapons/boons/whatever that somehow is completely different than what other people think.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Jacking Out; Jacking In



Mr.Unique-Name posted:

Does anybody know where saves are stored to transfer them between the EGS and Steam versions?

I was playing a pirated EGS version and bought it on Steam recently and it picked up my save right away. You shouldn't have to transfer anything unless you changed computers/harddrives.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


NObodyNOWHERE posted:

I don't think they have a list anywhere, but you should be able to see when you're getting the bonus on a pickup. If you look in the little pop-up box when you're next to the item, it will show both the main item and bonus.

The upgrade item pickups are like so (room and boon rewards only):

Keys give bonus +1 Fated Authority
Nectar gives bonus level +1 to random boon (like a free Pom)
Gemstones give bonus coin (can't remember the amount - maybe +10?)
Darkness gives bonus +5 max health

Thanks! Keys were the main one I keep forgetting, because I keep forgetting about Fated Authority in general. The few times I've tried it, it seems like it's restricted to swapping to doors of the same type (i.e. resources to resources, boons to boons)?

NObodyNOWHERE posted:

Yeah, it's good stuff. I shied away from Zeus for a while, but I've had consistently amazing runs focused on lightning and jolt when I've gone for it. Have you done a Zeus run with Chiron aspect on the bow? Oh my!

I love that really everything is viable and can feel powerful in this game. I also love how everybody (including me) has a concrete idea of what is definitely and obviously a 100% lock for the best weapons/boons/whatever that somehow is completely different than what other people think.

My current favored "most op" combo is Deflect + Deflect primary/secondary and the duo that lets deflect attacks pop Doom. I picked that up on Zagreus +secondary speed spear run with the bouncing secondary and +range primary Daedalus upgrades, and I think that was my fastest time yet. The rifle + accuracy and attack speed + Artemis' homing arrows was pretty hilarious too, though.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Rail with infinite mag and artemis homing missiles is really good yeah.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


My biggest disappointment was finding out that the Zeus aspect shield's blitz disc doesn't proc homing arrows

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Tellaris posted:

Zeus gets bonkers good on things that hit fast with low damage since he adds flat damage. His bolts on strong attack make the bow spread go from 10 damage per arrow to 60 damage per arrow, which melts stuff real good. If you get his legendary boon, all bolt attacks add an additional explosion which gets real goofy real fast. The rifle with all the zeus upgrades will literally kill everything short of a boss before it can walk to you. Its nuts.

Stickman posted:

My biggest disappointment was finding out that the Zeus aspect shield's blitz disc doesn't proc homing arrows

It does, however, proc Zeus specials. And you can just keep knocking people back into it as it flies! Got a nice clear off of that one.

Stickman posted:

Thanks! Keys were the main one I keep forgetting, because I keep forgetting about Fated Authority in general. The few times I've tried it, it seems like it's restricted to swapping to doors of the same type (i.e. resources to resources, boons to boons)?

Yeah. Blue doors to blue doors (resources), gold doors to gold doors (in-run boons, cash, health, poms). Gold doors can even swap to a trial of the gods!

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


I've finally be able to reach and die at the final boss, and I've found 1 true trap in the early game:

Boss drops are highly limited to 1 per weapon only, and you'll be able to get a max of 5 of them only before you beat the final boss.

This is especially for Titan Hearts, since they are used to upgrade your weapons.
The only other sources are:

1. To trade in the market for a higher level item, for example:
-> 1 Titan Heart for 1 Ambrosia (the 3rd boss drop)

2. 1 Titan Heart can be bought in the final area for 1500 Gold, which is a really huge amount and possibly would gimp your whole run if you try to save for that.

If only I knew about above fact, I would probably spend all 5 of my Titan Hearts to upgrade the base Shield weapon to max (15% damage reduction).

Some of the other smaller traps:

1. Some aspects of the weapons are much more dependent on upgrades than others. For example, Chiron's Bow, gives only additional 1 arrow per upgrade, so they are not really worthwhile before you beat the final boss since you are not able to upgrade it to max.

2. Your game is only saved mid-run if you select Quit from the Esc menu (usually after you clear an encounter). If your app is force-closed due to some reasons while an encounter is not cleared, you'll get thrown all the way back to the Skelly's room.

3. Some of the renovations do have a gameplay effect even when they are marked as Decor. For example, the Fortune thingie.

Also, I've found the dashes when using Bow are very sporadic, and you'll usually dash forward instead instead of in direction of your arrow keys. This is the case even after you've disabled all the "to cursor" gameplay stuff in the Options menu, on M&K. I'll try reporting this as a bug though.

srulz fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Dec 18, 2019

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

once you finish the game you can get extra diamonds/blood/ambrosia/?? by doing challenge-runs. So yeah they're limited and you should use them carefully but there's no use hoarding.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


awesmoe posted:

once you finish the game you can get extra diamonds/blood/ambrosia/?? by doing challenge-runs. So yeah they're limited and you should use them carefully but there's no use hoarding.

I mean, I've just painstakingly fought and defeated the final boss just now only to find out that he apparently has multiple phases so yeah, getting through that "finishing the game" part is actually quite hard.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Managed to flawless the Hydra on the back of the incredibly strong shotgun daedalus mod for the gun, and discovered that there unfortunately doesn't seem to be any unique dialogue for that.

Edit: Is there any way of upgrading the quality of your boons outside of that special room in Asphodel? Other than replacing them at least.

Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Dec 18, 2019

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


So I've got the options between these 3 upgrades for my Rail:

1. Infinite ammo
2. Spread fire
3. Triple bomb

All 3 sounds absolutely delicious. Which one is the best?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010



I don't have a lot of experience with the rail but triple bomb is amazing

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013



y'know, despite how angry and cold he acts due to his feelings of being abandoned, Thanatos still obviously cares a whole lot about Zag, and that made me realize something

his trinket gives you bonuses for clearing rooms without taking damage, which incentivizes a more careful playstyle

even when he's not around, he's doing his best to make sure Zag doesn't get hurt

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


The Hermes plume keepsake could use some tuning. It's fine for the first area, you can get a lot of triggers there, some in the second area even, but after that there are too many enemies and spawns and you'll pretty much never trigger it again.

srulz posted:

So I've got the options between these 3 upgrades for my Rail:

1. Infinite ammo
2. Spread fire
3. Triple bomb

All 3 sounds absolutely delicious. Which one is the best?

Spread Fire carried my last Rail run hard.They're all good though.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


Andrast posted:

I don't have a lot of experience with the rail but triple bomb is amazing

How does the "reloading" work for the bombs? Do you get the throw all 3 after a slight delay each time, or only the first time and you'll have to wait for all the bombs to reaccumulate?

Broken Cog posted:

Spread Fire carried my last Rail run hard.They're all good though.

More questions:
1. How much is the ammo used up per shot?
2. Can you just hold fire, or there'll be slight delay and need to retap?
3. How is each bullet's interaction with Artemis's Support Fire & Zeus's Lightning Bolt? Because I have both of them currently.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


srulz posted:

More questions:
1. How much is the ammo used up per shot?
2. Can you just hold fire, or there'll be slight delay and need to retap?
3. How is each bullet's interaction with Artemis's Support Fire & Zeus's Lightning Bolt? Because I have both of them currently.

I've only really ran it once, so I'm probably not the best authority on it, but from what I remember:
1: It still uses 1 per shot, though I'm actually kinda doubting myself on this now.
2: No, it turns the Rail into more of a semiautomatic shotgun, there is a slight delay between each shot.
3: I'm... not actually sure, I think they count as separate, but I was running a max crit/armor sundering build, so it didn't really play into it.

Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Dec 18, 2019

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




It only uses 1 ammo per shot, but I found it really hard to only fire one shot with the shotgun upgrade. Also I don't think it counts as multiple hits for arrows sadly, or at least if it did I never noticed it.

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare


Finally beat the final boss for the first time

Got an early hammer and an Artemis boon for the spear that made the special into an exploding projectile that crits for some 400 damage, which frankly carried me most of the game. It doesn't sound particularly special compared to some of the other things in the game, but it did it for me. That and deflect on attack and dash, the duo boon that turns deflects into crit chance, and Artemis's free arrows. A significant portion of the run was just Zagreus dashing around wildly while making GBS threads out arrows and things exploding everywhere.

Haven't reproduced the success yet, but now that I have Heat I can at least try some more of the alternate weapons.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Holy hell, some of the duo powers are just nuts. I got the Ares + Athena dual boon that triggers all instances of doom if you do damage with something that deflects, and coupled with doom on attack and deflect on dash I melted Theseus in less than 20 seconds.

Edit: Hades too went down like an absolute chump, had well over half left on the Lambent Plume timer, so 20-25 seconds? Entire run took about 22 minutes, 10 minutes faster than than my last best, and I wasn't exactly rushing.
drat that was a broken combo.

Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Dec 18, 2019

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

srulz posted:

I mean, I've just painstakingly fought and defeated the final boss just now only to find out that he apparently has multiple phases so yeah, getting through that "finishing the game" part is actually quite hard.
yes agreed it is hard to start with (took me 17 runs before I won), but a) you the player gits gud and b) you the character unlocks buffs from the mirror, keepsakes, and weapon buffs, so stuff gets easier pretty quickly. Like, I won once in my first 17 runs and then have won 5 times in my next 10. And I'm dogshit at these games.

Glare Seethe
May 15, 2004

Tenochtitlan, looking east.


Just beat the game for the first time on my 18th try, with the Rail. I had 4 hp left despite going into the final battle with three revives (two from the mirror and one from Skelly that I switched to for the temple). I usually completely forget about my Cast (and Call) but it did a lot of work for me, had like four of them plus a secondary shot, and the Zeus/Artemis Duo boon that turns dropped casts into lightning rods. I could basically focus most of the time on dodging and staying alive, and getting some shots in with the Rail whenever I could.

There is a lot of funny dialogue in this game but I think the biggest laugh it got out of me so far was when I approached the first boss room and Zag muttered "Please be Meg".

Now to go back and read this thread without fear of (too many) spoilers. Although I still have not met everyone, interestingly.

Absolutely loving this game, and it really reminded me of what an amazing studio Supergiant is. I skipped Pyre when it came out (though I have it now and will hopefully get to it soonish) and it'd been enough time since Transistor for me to sort of forget.

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NObodyNOWHERE
Apr 24, 2007

Now we are all sons of bitches.


Hell Gem

A lot of people neglect to use cast initially, including me when I was first starting. This is a big mistake. Not only can your cast do a lot of direct damage on its own, it also gives a big passive damage boost after you've upgraded the mirror modestly.

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