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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





If I want my fists to have a nuke on Q, I take Demeter. I haven't touched Gilgamesh since I got it, and haven't used Zag fists since I started to understand attack patterns better and stopped needing to lean on dodge stacking.

ManMythLegend posted:

I'm not a huge fan of the bow, but everytime I end up with rapid fire on the Chiron Aspect I know I'm going to have a good time. I just got my first deathless complete with it and I was just trying to finish out the legendary boon prophecy, not make a functional/broken build.

I really wish you could spend rerolls on hammer upgrades because I would blow them for that every run.

I find that rapid fire makes me reckless. Since I don't have to stop to charge my shot, I end up rushing into bad positions and getting wacked. Now, the +4 shots on my special is with Chiron. Tagging the baddie and firing Q in the opposite direction to watch 12 arrows circle around like guided anime missiles never gets old.

I think my three favorite builds are Zeus/Demeter/Dionysus with Chiron, Dionysus/Aphrodite/Ares with Demeter fists (Ares is for faster Dio ticks), and Ares/Artemis/Poseidon with Achilles/Hades/Guan Yu spear in order of how meme I want the build to be.

Because throwing out 12 blade rifts (Artemis legendary + Chaos boon + Mirage Shot), Guan Yu's spin, and then Ares call yourself is loving maximum spin.

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AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Warmachine posted:

I find that rapid fire makes me reckless. Since I don't have to stop to charge my shot, I end up rushing into bad positions and getting wacked. Now, the +4 shots on my special is with Chiron. Tagging the baddie and firing Q in the opposite direction to watch 12 arrows circle around like guided anime missiles never gets old.

My favorite support boon is probably Supporting Fire because it makes the railgun and chiron bow turn you into a Macross fighter.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

AlternateNu posted:

My favorite support boon is probably Supporting Fire because it makes the railgun and chiron bow turn you into a Macross fighter.

I picked up Support Fire on Fists once too and it was dope.

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

Skeleton War 2020


It's not efficient but I get a kick out of stacking up Doom on the Gilgamesh special.

As they said in ancient Greece, "Omae wa mou shindeiru."

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





Iím still not understanding Ambrosia. I have like 20, and I have lots of relationships where I can no longer give Nectar and their next ďheartĒ is locked. What do I need to do?

ManMythLegend
Aug 18, 2003

I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.


Yorkshire Pudding posted:

I’m still not understanding Ambrosia. I have like 20, and I have lots of relationships where I can no longer give Nectar and their next “heart” is locked. What do I need to do?

Mostly keep talking to people unfortunately. The Gods have specific things you need to do (like finish romancing Meg, Dusa, and Thanatos for Aphrodite) but the other characters depend on conversations and the RNG.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





ManMythLegend posted:

Mostly keep talking to people unfortunately. The Gods have specific things you need to do (like finish romancing Meg, Dusa, and Thanatos for Aphrodite) but the other characters depend on conversations and the RNG.

I figured it was something like that. Iím waaay past the credits though so I didnít know if I had just missed something to unlock it. Thanks!

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



There are romances in this game?? Wtf. Can I turn into a swan and hook up with mortals

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case




a fatguy baldspot posted:

There are romances in this game?? Wtf. Can I turn into a swan and hook up with mortals

there's a sweet golden shower minigame

Dyz
Dec 10, 2010


DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

there's a sweet golden shower minigame

Are you talking about the one where you get paddled repeatedly?

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





Dear God. As always. Complaining about something on the internet fixes it. On my next run I got a Zeus boon and it opened up his next level of relationships.

Neitherman
Sep 25, 2006

He will die without safety brief.



I'm one of those people that hated Coronacht UNTIL I unlocked Aspect of Chiron and got the Daedalus Hammer upgrade to add more bolts to the special attack. Now, I cannot get enough of those heart-seeking missiles. Every weapon is viable and fun to use and your preferences are bound to change as you unlock more abilities and aspects for each of them.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here


Yorkshire Pudding posted:

Iím still not understanding Ambrosia. I have like 20, and I have lots of relationships where I can no longer give Nectar and their next ďheartĒ is locked. What do I need to do?

Most of the folks who hang out around the House or that you'll meet on your journey have a task of some sort that you'll need to complete, plus you have to engage them in conversation enough for them to give you the task. There's often a prophecy attached to them.

Thanatos's is pretty simple, you just have to keep outscoring him in the fight rooms. His ambrosia keepsake is pretty good, too.

Sanctum
Feb 14, 2005

Heilige Tod


Bananasaurus Rex posted:

lol oh i meant achilles

You get a buff when you throw and warp to your spear. Buffed casts do a lotta damage when you build for it.
You are right that the achilles spear is better for cast builds than the poseidon sword. I find the achilles spear actions are too involved for my taste. Something about alternating between the spear rush and casts/attacks messes me up. I need to pay attention where I'm aiming the special so I don't spear rush into an attack/trap, then I'm watching myself as I attack/cast so I can dodge, then I'm aiming the next special so my eyes should be following where I'm going next but whoops that enemy I was attacking is about to hit me. So I spear rush through them and into an exploding inferno bomb.

Like with a bow you are either dodging or shooting, that's the tempo.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



Is there any way to restore the game to a previous cloud save or something, I lost all my progres INCLUDING MY WIN!!! because I switch between my desktop and laptop and I played on my laptop for a bit yesterday before I realized it had loaded a save from before the win - even tho I still have the achievements from winning. Very frustrating, Iím about to cry

On steam btw

a fatguy baldspot fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Feb 20, 2021

Lemony
Jul 27, 2010

Now With Fresh Citrus Scent!


So I'm fairly far in progress wise, main plot basically wrapped up. Go to talk to Sisyphus but get the angle wrong.

Apparently you can talk to Bouldy? How the hell long have I been able to do that? This is like me missing Zag's biggest fan in the arena the first few times, but apparently much more frequently.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


Lemony posted:

So I'm fairly far in progress wise, main plot basically wrapped up. Go to talk to Sisyphus but get the angle wrong.

Apparently you can talk to Bouldy? How the hell long have I been able to do that? This is like me missing Zag's biggest fan in the arena the first few times, but apparently much more frequently.

I think itís after he says something along the lines of ďyou should try talking to Bouldy sometime, heís a great listener. You can even give him nectars (donít more than once tho, it just gives a tiny buff for the run).

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!



Last Celebration posted:

(don’t more than once tho, it just gives a tiny buff for the run).

Mods?
You're giving your friend a nectar, that's the only reward you should need.
(And you kinda need a lot of nectars on bouldy to advance Sisyphus storyline)

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


Omobono posted:

Mods?
You're giving your friend a nectar, that's the only reward you should need.
(And you kinda need a lot of nectars on bouldy to advance Sisyphus storyline)

I was speaking from personal experience of dumping a lot on him and thinking I wasted a bunch, glad Iím wrong and I can dump All The Nectars on my friend that I believe in (because he believes in me) on my Hell Mode run.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Omobono posted:

Mods?
You're giving your friend a nectar, that's the only reward you should need.
(And you kinda need a lot of nectars on bouldy to advance Sisyphus storyline)

You don't actually need to give Bouldy any Nectar at all, just talk to it once and eventually dialogue with Thanatos/Meg/Nyx will progress it.

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side


Finally got my first win! Used the bow and aspect of Chiron. Had a pretty strong Doom effect on the special that did really nice damage

Obviously the game isn't over now, but how much of it is left in terms of the main plot? Also, I've given nectar to everyone for their keepsake except for whoever the very last one is. I guess it's probably Persephone. Should I now just start giving out more to everyone, or focus it on certain people?

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010


You need like seven more wins to see the credits and end of the ďstoryĒ but a lot more to finish the epilogue (which itself is meatier than the normal story by a fair amount depending on how good you are). For nectars theres about a half dozen people who give summon items once youíve progressed enough with them to start getting the option to use Ambrosia, if you consider who a spoiler Megaera, Thanatos, Dusa, Skelly, Achilles/Patroclus, and Sisyphus.

Iíd just recommend dumping Nectars on who you like the most though and not sweat it

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

a fatguy baldspot posted:

Is there any way to restore the game to a previous cloud save or something, I lost all my progres INCLUDING MY WIN!!! because I switch between my desktop and laptop and I played on my laptop for a bit yesterday before I realized it had loaded a save from before the win - even tho I still have the achievements from winning. Very frustrating, Iím about to cry

On steam btw
Have you checked the computer that you had the most progress on to make sure that it was actually over-ridden? I'm not completely sure, but your saves should/might be in C:\Users\user\Documents\Saved Games\Hades\*.sav and they shouldn't actually transfer from PC to PC even through the same Steam account.

Hello Sailor
May 3, 2006

we're all mad here


BrianWilly posted:

Have you checked the computer that you had the most progress on to make sure that it was actually over-ridden? I'm not completely sure, but your saves should/might be in C:\Users\user\Documents\Saved Games\Hades\*.sav and they shouldn't actually transfer from PC to PC even through the same Steam account.

Sounds like they were using some sort of homebrewed cloud sharing to get around the usual save-game behavior and got bit by it.

Flea Bargain
Dec 9, 2008

'Twas brillig




Wow, something in my brain finally clicked and now I can actually kill Hades!



This game took me a little while to get into, but drat if I'm not enjoying stomping all over hell.

Solenna
Jun 5, 2003

I'd say it was your manifest destiny not to.



Flea Bargain posted:

Wow, something in my brain finally clicked and now I can actually kill Hades!



This game took me a little while to get into, but drat if I'm not enjoying stomping all over hell.
time to start cranking up the heat!


Related oh my god hard labor kicked my rear end I need to get better at dodging.

Bananasaurus Rex
Mar 19, 2009


Once you get used to the last two bosses and styx then you can get a decent streak going

that is until EM4

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side


Got my second clear of the day (and in total)! Kind of felt like a good one too because I wasn't really doing all that much damage, but I managed to get through to Hades with three death defiances and then had enough life/dodged well enough to take it slowly

a few observations/questions:

Athena's boons seem pretty bad outside of her dash and cast, or am I just not imagining how useful they might be?

Criticals/Doom/casts seem to be the big damage dealers in the game, or am I missing something else? It feels like usually even a buffed up attack/special doesn't really hit for that much at the end without getting criticals and adding statuses

Is Tiny Vermin a one time fight? I am pretty sure I haven't had that fight since I won it but every time I get to Styx I'm praying I can avoid it, which I have done

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





Okay so I understand Guan Yu now. Just buff up the special, get the 200% special damage hammer, and only use the spin attack to heal when you only have a few enemies left. I canít believe how much damage I poo poo out from far away.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Paperhouse posted:

Is Tiny Vermin a one time fight? I am pretty sure I haven't had that fight since I won it but every time I get to Styx I'm praying I can avoid it, which I have done

Nope, it's just rare

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018


This is all one big thing.


Paperhouse posted:

Got my second clear of the day (and in total)! Kind of felt like a good one too because I wasn't really doing all that much damage, but I managed to get through to Hades with three death defiances and then had enough life/dodged well enough to take it slowly

a few observations/questions:

Athena's boons seem pretty bad outside of her dash and cast, or am I just not imagining how useful they might be?

Criticals/Doom/casts seem to be the big damage dealers in the game, or am I missing something else? It feels like usually even a buffed up attack/special doesn't really hit for that much at the end without getting criticals and adding statuses

Is Tiny Vermin a one time fight? I am pretty sure I haven't had that fight since I won it but every time I get to Styx I'm praying I can avoid it, which I have done

Athena's attack and special boons are pretty underwhelming, though I enjoy putting her special on non-Chiron bows as an anti-witch measure. Her legendary boon is a lot of fun though.

Damage depends on the build. Criticals work well for slow, strong attacks like the bow or the spear. Boons with on-hit effects (Zeus, Dionysus, Demeter) work well for quick attacks like the gun or the fists. Doom is sort of weird, in that it works best if applied and then given a second to activate. I like it on things like the gun's special where I can hit a bunch of enemies while running around the room and then forget about them. Cast is a big damage dealer if you build for it, most gods require the investment of a couple of boons to make their special really shine. The Athena one is almost always a good addition to a build though.

Tiny Vermin, like the other Styx minibosses, can reappear every run but you do not need to fight a Styx miniboss every run. They are in the rooms with the skull by the reward, which is 2 out of the 5 options, so odds are most of the time you won't have to fight them.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


I always fight the minibosses preferentially because

a) bigger reward
b) faster
c) easier

Give me one big Satyr rather than 6 small ones any day

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



yeah i know speedrunners pick the minibosses in Styx basically every single time, the chance of getting Tiny Vermin (and then getting bad luck with its patterns that result in a really slow fight) is not high enough to overcome how much faster the miniboss rooms are on average compared to regular rooms

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you







Alright, so that was embarrasing.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


Paperhouse posted:

Got my second clear of the day (and in total)! Kind of felt like a good one too because I wasn't really doing all that much damage, but I managed to get through to Hades with three death defiances and then had enough life/dodged well enough to take it slowly

a few observations/questions:

Athena's boons seem pretty bad outside of her dash and cast, or am I just not imagining how useful they might be?

Criticals/Doom/casts seem to be the big damage dealers in the game, or am I missing something else? It feels like usually even a buffed up attack/special doesn't really hit for that much at the end without getting criticals and adding statuses

Is Tiny Vermin a one time fight? I am pretty sure I haven't had that fight since I won it but every time I get to Styx I'm praying I can avoid it, which I have done

Athena's boons are very powerful, if not very flashy, but the problem is that you don't really notice them working when they do work. Deflect is the single best defensive anything in the game, swatting away incoming attacks and projectiles, and turn fast weapons like the Shield and Fist particularly into walls the enemies have to slip past or brute force through to hit you while letting even slower weapons like the Spear play far more ignorantly. Exposed is also one of the biggest damage modifiers you can unlock in a run, amplifying already-amplified back attack damage, although some weapons play better to backstab then others and since Backstabs already do bonus damage it isn't as instantly-visual as a crit unless your damage numbers are already huge. Starting with Call charge in a fight can speed up trash rooms with a good call like Poseidon or add a lot of safety with good defensive ones like Ares or Athena's own. And getting back a Death's Defiance can be a run-saver.

Crits are big spikes but consistent damage is consistent and getting Aphro, Demeter, Poseidon, or Athena on an attack or special on top of a hammer that improves them can be massive. Remember that you only get the bonus crit damage when you, y'know, crit. Without any outside bonus crit, Artemis' attack boon applies a 15% critical hit chance to Attack with a 20% damage boost at common level 1, meaning she does 120% damage 85% of the time and 360% damage 15% of the time for an average damage increase of 56%. Versus Aphro's max of 50% at Common level 1... while also applying Weak. And as you get to higher boon levels and rarities, the multiplier to the bonus damage continues to apply to the entirely to Aphro's large base bonus damage upgrade... but only increases the base bonus damage for Artemis, NOT the crit rate or bonus crit damage. So as you level up the boon with Poms or increase it's rarity, Aphrodite quickly pulls ahead in terms of damage over time while still applying her Weak curse.

Of course, things can change that can make one or the other more valuable- Crit gets much better as crit percentage are stacked- whether through weapons, charms, or other boons- and Artemis has boons that further increase critical damage, while Aphro also has boons that cause enemies under Weak to take additional damage as well as causing a Curse to work towards applying the damage bonus from the Privileged Status mirror perk. That said, both of these are kinda bad news for Doom, who applies a flat amount of damage per rank after a period of time that doesn't scale off anything and locks out the ability to apply more Doom damage until it triggers without one specific Ares boon. Cast builds ARE powerful and fairly easy to build because they're one of the easiest builds to target for- you want as many extra Blood Stones as you can get so Artemis and Chaos are your best friends and the already-powerful Bone Hourglass goes from being the best keepsake in the game to The Best Keepsake In The Game and otherwise you just want to shove as many Poms into whatever cast you're running as possible and focus the rest of your build around defense, but good Attack or Special-focused builds can utterly paste the DPS of cast builds unless they get super lucky with the Blood Stone count- the strength of Cast builds are how stable and safe they are versus other build paths since you get to devote almost all your boon picks to utility and safety and having your DPS largely existing in burst windows naturally due to stone regeneration/extraction.

Tiny Vermin can show up again but there's a number of miniboss fights that can appear in Styx and not all will be present in one run, especially if you don't actively take the boss gates every time and leave Styx with 0 or 1 miniboss.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Mr. Locke posted:

Cast builds ARE powerful and fairly easy to build because they're one of the easiest builds to target for- you want as many extra Blood Stones as you can get so Artemis and Chaos are your best friends and the already-powerful Bone Hourglass goes from being the best keepsake in the game to The Best Keepsake In The Game

I find this funny because I've used Chiron's keepsake all of once because why spend coins for temp boosts that, by the end of the game won't help me against Hades.

I'm not arguing with you because, again, I've used it all of once. But it's super unintuitive this would be the case.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012

I came here to laugh at you





Mr. Locke posted:

Athena's boons are very powerful, if not very flashy, but the problem is that you don't really notice them working when they do work. Deflect is the single best defensive anything in the game, swatting away incoming attacks and projectiles, and turn fast weapons like the Shield and Fist particularly into walls the enemies have to slip past or brute force through to hit you while letting even slower weapons like the Spear play far more ignorantly. Exposed is also one of the biggest damage modifiers you can unlock in a run, amplifying already-amplified back attack damage, although some weapons play better to backstab then others and since Backstabs already do bonus damage it isn't as instantly-visual as a crit unless your damage numbers are already huge. Starting with Call charge in a fight can speed up trash rooms with a good call like Poseidon or add a lot of safety with good defensive ones like Ares or Athena's own. And getting back a Death's Defiance can be a run-saver.

Crits are big spikes but consistent damage is consistent and getting Aphro, Demeter, Poseidon, or Athena on an attack or special on top of a hammer that improves them can be massive. Remember that you only get the bonus crit damage when you, y'know, crit. Without any outside bonus crit, Artemis' attack boon applies a 15% critical hit chance to Attack with a 20% damage boost at common level 1, meaning she does 120% damage 85% of the time and 360% damage 15% of the time for an average damage increase of 56%. Versus Aphro's max of 50% at Common level 1... while also applying Weak. And as you get to higher boon levels and rarities, the multiplier to the bonus damage continues to apply to the entirely to Aphro's large base bonus damage upgrade... but only increases the base bonus damage for Artemis, NOT the crit rate or bonus crit damage. So as you level up the boon with Poms or increase it's rarity, Aphrodite quickly pulls ahead in terms of damage over time while still applying her Weak curse.

Of course, things can change that can make one or the other more valuable- Crit gets much better as crit percentage are stacked- whether through weapons, charms, or other boons- and Artemis has boons that further increase critical damage, while Aphro also has boons that cause enemies under Weak to take additional damage as well as causing a Curse to work towards applying the damage bonus from the Privileged Status mirror perk. That said, both of these are kinda bad news for Doom, who applies a flat amount of damage per rank after a period of time that doesn't scale off anything and locks out the ability to apply more Doom damage until it triggers without one specific Ares boon. Cast builds ARE powerful and fairly easy to build because they're one of the easiest builds to target for- you want as many extra Blood Stones as you can get so Artemis and Chaos are your best friends and the already-powerful Bone Hourglass goes from being the best keepsake in the game to The Best Keepsake In The Game and otherwise you just want to shove as many Poms into whatever cast you're running as possible and focus the rest of your build around defense, but good Attack or Special-focused builds can utterly paste the DPS of cast builds unless they get super lucky with the Blood Stone count- the strength of Cast builds are how stable and safe they are versus other build paths since you get to devote almost all your boon picks to utility and safety and having your DPS largely existing in burst windows naturally due to stone regeneration/extraction.

Tiny Vermin can show up again but there's a number of miniboss fights that can appear in Styx and not all will be present in one run, especially if you don't actively take the boss gates every time and leave Styx with 0 or 1 miniboss.

I'd like to actually do the math on an ares/artemis/posiedon cast build vs some of the optimal weapon DPS builds. I suspect it's pretty close if not in ares cast's favor if you can get all the legendaries and duos you need. The problem is how legendary/duo dependent it is: you need Vicious Cycle, Hunting Blades, Mirage Shot, and Fully Loaded to get the full effect. But that works out to 5 full damage blade rifts and 5 30% blade rifts all ramping up on one enemy.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


AlternateNu posted:

I find this funny because I've used Chiron's keepsake all of once because why spend coins for temp boosts that, by the end of the game won't help me against Hades.

I'm not arguing with you because, again, I've used it all of once. But it's super unintuitive this would be the case.

The temp boosts are insanely powerful for the price- often doing larger increases then most similar common boons at a fraction of the cost- and at max rank the Hourglass increases the number of encounters you get to keep a boost by 8. This makes most boosts last for multiple blocks, which is really powerful for cast builds in particular since you can buy temporary Blood Stones out of the Well for 50 obel and Braid of Atlas is one of the few cast damage modifiers in the game in any form.

If you're really uncomfortable with fishing in Styx for a Well to buy some boosts from before Hades you can always swap off it before starting Styx, but it's bar none the single strongest keepsake on average for the other three zones. By a lot.

JayMax
Jun 14, 2007

Hard-nosed gentleman


Mr. Locke posted:

The temp boosts are insanely powerful for the price- often doing larger increases then most similar common boons at a fraction of the cost- and at max rank the Hourglass increases the number of encounters you get to keep a boost by 8. This makes most boosts last for multiple blocks, which is really powerful for cast builds in particular since you can buy temporary Blood Stones out of the Well for 50 obel and Braid of Atlas is one of the few cast damage modifiers in the game in any form.

Oh yeah, one of the big mistakes I made early on was undervaluing those temporary buffs. Even the conditional ones (backstab, first strike) are great. And the move speed buff is basically free.

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f#a#
Sep 6, 2004

I can't promise it will live up to the hype, but I tried my best.


it's me, I'm the guy who switches between different god keepsakes every block except when I feel like using the feather the entire run or the tooth in styx

But I did have an extremely fun run for 7 heat shield while finishing my duo boon prophecy. I call it the Umbrella Build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2VdMUOdfiU



Stand in the shield to prevent almost all incoming damage, attack and get a ton of doom procs. The trick is just finding the shield and not catching it.

Solenna posted:

Related oh my god hard labor kicked my rear end I need to get better at dodging

lol try Forced Overtime, you're going to have to get used to it eventually

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