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Darth Brooks
Jan 15, 2005

I do not wear this mask to protect me. I wear it to protect you from me.

Wholigan

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Jodie has confirmed she’s in another season after this one.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT

Davros1 posted:

Now the Time Lords have gone too far ... They've called up Susan Foreman to fight in the Time War:

https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/ca...tm_content=news

I'm legit excited about this


The_Doctor posted:

Jodie has confirmed she’s in another season after this one.

And this. I think even people who don't like Chibnall can agree she's a good Doctor.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017

The_Doctor posted:

Jodie has confirmed she’s in another season after this one.

3 Series has been the norm since 2006, so I'm curious if they'll keep to that or break the mold a little more

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

CommonShore posted:

I've literally told people to shut up when they've called me a "Whovian."

What if we called them "People who enjoy watching Doctor Who"

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

Cojawfee posted:

What if we called them "People who enjoy watching Doctor Who"

There are no such people

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

HD DAD posted:

There are no such people

Not in this thread, anyway :haw:

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

The_Doctor posted:

Jodie has confirmed she’s in another season after this one.

big of her to assume there'll still be a BBC in 2023

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Chokes McGee posted:

Not in this thread, anyway :haw:

I'm a people :smith:

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

And this. I think even people who don't like Chibnall can agree she's a good Doctor.

Not the people who've decided she's the worst ever Doctor and who keep spreading rumors that she will be/is being/has been fired along with Chibnall.

Really, I have no idea why this trend kicked up around specifically Jodie Whittaker, and not any other Doctor. Truly, it'a a total mystery why some people are treating her so differently.

Sudden Loud Noise
Feb 18, 2007

Cleretic posted:

Not the people who've decided she's the worst ever Doctor and who keep spreading rumors that she will be/is being/has been fired along with Chibnall.

Really, I have no idea why this trend kicked up around specifically Jodie Whittaker, and not any other Doctor. Truly, it'a a total mystery why some people are treating her so differently.

It's her accent. It's like... Higher than all the previous doctors. And it's her hair. It's like longer and more feminine. And she like, wears makeup. No other doctor wore makeup! And there hasn't been one joke about how the sonic screwdriver is analogous to her penis. I mean it's basically not even Doctor Who with those changes!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Sudden Loud Noise posted:

No other doctor wore makeup!

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Tennant wore eyeliner.

during Casanova but he dressed like a Doctor so it totally counts

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Sudden Loud Noise posted:

And it's her hair. It's like longer and more feminine.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

As always, any excuse etc:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

I'm a people :smith:

it was a joke :ssh:

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



https://twitter.com/Lou_Jameson/status/1220628947093925888?s=20

https://twitter.com/Lou_Jameson/status/1220775867888152577?s=20

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Haha less than a day to track it down, amazing.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: The 7th Doctor meets the bird(s) with the word(s).

Long Synopsis: In 1950s Kenya, a group of upper class British women are holed up in their jungle home during the Mau Mau uprising. The 7th Doctor arrives at the same time as the discovery of an odd humanoid-shaped being that cannot speak. Together with old rival Elizabeth Klein he attempts to prevent the outbreak of a deadly plague and impart a lesson about the value of all lives.

What's Good:
  • The setting. This is a period that I do not recall EVER seeing covered in Doctor Who, and the backdrop of The Mau Mau Uprising is used to great effect. The mixture of paranoia, dread and the infamous British "stiff upper lip" made for a heady combination, aided by the obvious deliberate choice to make the British holed up in the house all female and specifically upper class. These are sheltered people who have been used to having everything their own way, and the uprising scares them less than it outrages them. This is Colonialist Britain, these are people who consider themselves the best of the best and the people of Kenya (always pronounced "Keen-ya") to be little more than savages at worst and children at best. They're insufferably smug in spite of their predicament, but not cartoonishly so. These are people of their time, and the way the Doctor gently but mercilessly pokes at their mindset is a real treat. The audio nicely gets across not only the heat/humidity of the jungle but the simultaneous isolation/claustrophobia. Of being miles from anywhere but also feeling vulnerable from some ever encroaching "other".

  • The ALIEN aliens. When the women find "Abraham" in the jungle, they are utterly flummoxed by what he is. At first they think he might have been tortured, then they presume he may have birth defects. What they all struggle with is just how alien he is. While humanoid, his joints bend the wrong way, he has too many thumbs, he shows no ability to speak. Is he an animal or a man? Even the Doctor can't translate his language, and the reason why is an extremely well-realized moment that ties in beautifully with the overt racism of the British towards the Kenyans. The Doctor mentions that avian-based intelligent spacefaring races are rare due to the difficulty they have with tool use. Abraham IS that tool, a perching post/body that tiny alien birds settle onto, using their collective mind to force him to do their bidding. Even their base is off-putting, the large spaces used by Abraham are understandable but the walls and roofs are riddled with tiny tunnels where the ACTUAL occupants live and move and rest in when not using Abraham. The birds are the same as the British women, they believe themselves "naturally" superior to Abraham, that he exists purely to be used to make their lives easier. Abraham's every waking moment is a misery, artificially kept suppressed and treated as a disposable tool. The parallel with the Kenyans is (painfully) obvious, and Abraham's rebellion proves the death knell for the alien birds, much like the uprising - despite being defeated - eventually resulted in Kenya declaring independence and becoming self-governing instead of treated as just another asset for exploitation by their "betters".

What's Not:

  • THE DEADBIRD SPEAK(S)! The little birds are wonderfully alien and the nature of how they accomplish things is horrifying. This is all handled extremely effectively... until the story "requires" exposition. In a failure of imagination, the writing reverts to having the birds explain their evil plot to the Doctor via Abraham. Their collective voice is underwhelming and their goading is cartoonishly supervillainish. After leaning in so hard to the alien nature of the birds, having them engage in conversation really undermines what made them so effective in the first place.

  • The road to Damocles moment. The overt racism on display throughout the entire audio eventually leads to a moment where the Doctor and Klein return and find a sole survivor, who has had a Road to Damocles moment due to their exposure to all the death and grasped that there is no difference between people regardless of race or class or any other social standing. Except this is COMPLETELY unearned. Her reaction comes out of nowhere, and if anything the actions that lead to her being the sole survivor would seem to fall completely in line with and reinforce her prejudices/mindset. That she is effectively "rewarded" by the Doctor with a charge to guard the alien base and make sure it is never reopened feels particularly off given the suggestions she made in the story to Klein about wanting to establish fascism in the United Kingdom. Which brings me to...

  • gently caress Nazis. I heard a lot of good things about this story for many years and was really looking forward to watching it. Unfortunately it's very much a product of its time, and unfortunately 10 years after it was first produced I listened to it in an extremely different climate to the one it was made in. Nazis are bad is not a new philosophy, but in 2010 there was multiple decades of them being a joke, a spent force and a failure of philosophy. So when Klein from the story Colditz was left as a hanging plot-thread, there was interest in seeing her come back as a recurring character. In a strange deviation of My Fair Lady, instead of the Doctor trying to make a "commoner" into a "lady", he's trying to turn a Nazi into a better human being. The entire idea is that the Doctor will show Klein that her philosophy is wrong, that Nazis/Fascism were wrong and bad. Klein, of course, comes from an alternate reality where the Nazis won, so she argues the opposite: that the Nazis were a good thing. She's wrong, there is never any doubt about that, and the entire conceit of the Doctor taking her on as a companion is so he can prove that to her. But it's 2020 when I listened to this and... I just can't stand it. Hearing the Doctor sit there and calmly and even cheerfully debate the merits of fascist ideology is just revolting, even if I know his intent is to set Klein to rights. But she's a monster, a murderer, a torturer and a racial supremacist who at best agrees that Dr. Mengele was "misguided" in his "enthusiasm". With actual Nazi assholes running around in the real world proclaiming their bullshit all over again and getting plenty of platforms to do so, this dynamic just doesn't work for me. This is no way an indictment on Tracey Childs, who does a fine job, but the character just makes me sick.

Final Thoughts:

A Thousand Tiny Wings is a great concept well-executed right up until the climax when it falls sadly into clumsy exposition. It covers an area of British Colonial History sadly most well-known for the various racist "Mau Mau!" jokes it inspired. The monstrous sense of superiority felt by the British is quite rightly not treated as an extreme thing but just something that was accepted as a matter of course at the time. They hypocrisy of the British treating the natives of their colonies so poorly in spite of their opposition to the Nazis in World War II is a good touch too. Sure the parallel between the British and the alien birds is far from subtle, but it is effective nonetheless. Clumsy exposition aside, the writing does a great job of really showcasing how truly alien the aliens are, properly using the audio format without having to be restricted by what could be visually shown on-screen in a television program. But where the story has most usually been praised is where it falls apart from me: Klein is an interesting and complex character but listening to this audio in 2020 adds enormous baggage that for me at least she can't get clear from. Having the Doctor take a Nazi who has no issue with torture, murder and literally believes in Aryan supremacy as a regular companion is extremely distasteful, even if the intention is clearly to show her the error of her ways. Is everybody worthy of being given a second chance? The Doctor of course would say yes, but I'm nowhere near as enlightened.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jan 26, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

:rip: Old woman's knitting.

:rip: Old woman.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Well, gently caress me I wasnt expecting that...

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Oh my GODDDD! :lol:

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Well, gently caress me I wasnt expecting that... Again.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
This is a loving rollercoaster. :tviv:

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


I think I speak for all of us when I say :tviv:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

That was a supremely weird episode and I have no idea what to make of it at all. I really don't like what it looks like it is doing but I really can't make a judgment because it feels like a ton of misdirection, but if they're going to try and "explain" Time Lord history or Gallifrey or introduce alternate history versions of the Doctor I'm really not on board.

Also I'm assuming this was one of those weird episodes in the production run where they have to film around actor availability, since the companions spent most of it standing in a room with Captain Jack (which was fun).

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

I like that they've abandoned gratuitous arc-words in favour of absolute batshit wing-nuttery. Long may it continue.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Jerusalem posted:

That was a supremely weird episode and I have no idea what to make of it at all. I really don't like what it looks like it is doing but I really can't make a judgment because it feels like a ton of misdirection, but if they're going to try and "explain" Time Lord history or Gallifrey or introduce alternate history versions of the Doctor I'm really not on board.

Also I'm assuming this was one of those weird episodes in the production run where they have to film around actor availability, since the companions spent most of it standing in a room with Captain Jack (which was fun).

I mean, between Dancing on Ice and the Masked Singer, John's pretty busy at the moment.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Bitterly disappointed that Jodie Whittaker didn't speak in Judoon at any point :smith:

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?
That was definitely a mad one, I thought Ruth was going to be the Master but I guess in retrospect that would have been too obvious?!

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
"Judoon platoon near that… lagoon?"
"It's more of a canal."

Also, any excuse for this song to make a comeback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shJRm4sNuhE

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.
I like the simple aspect of the First Doctor's origin - alien born into a society with advanced tech, gets bored of the stuffiness and explores space and time with a stolen time machine. It works!

I'm hoping it's a misdirection/parallel universe thing, because there being secret pre-Hartnell Doctors isn't an appealing idea. The War Doctor worked because it made narrative sense, and John Hurt was a legendary actor.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah I'll reserve judgment until I actually see where they're going, but if this turns out to be a parallel universe thing I'm probably not gonna be happy.

I bet Big Finish have been calling Jo Martin every second since the episode ended though :allears:

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Yeah, this is one of those episodes which wasnt a two parter, but I'm going to judge as a two parter anyway; I need to see if they stick the landing. As a stand alone episode... It was basically okay, but really the episode plot played second fiddle to the metaplot stuff. Those were so front and centre that I cant say much more than "This episode was an okay way of introducing whatever the gently caress is going on here. I'll let you know if that turns out to be a good thing or a bad thing".

ookiimarukochan
Apr 4, 2011

OldMemes posted:

I'm hoping it's a misdirection/parallel universe thing, because there being secret pre-Hartnell Doctors isn't an appealing idea.

Not a Brain of Morbius fan?
Not an Andrew Cartmel fan?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

ookiimarukochan posted:

Not a Brain of Morbius fan?
Not an Andrew Cartmel fan?

I'm a fan of both of those! I just dislike the dumb "there were other Doctors before!" nonsense each wanted to include or at least imply. To my dying day I'll insist those other faces in Morbius were Morbius' own prior regenerations as his dominance in the psychic battle started to get rattled. :colbert:

I don't think Jo Martin is intended as pre-Hartnell, the intention is clearly that she's some form of divergent Doctor split off at some point, the question is whether she's a fake (by the Master, just to be a dick?) or from a parallel universe (which I won't like) or if Gallifrey is pulling some spectacular bullshit. I imagine the Timeless Child or whatever it was called will be tied up in it in some way, and while I don't want to pre-judge I have to say given what Chibnall said earlier about not wanting to do big giant season-arc/mystery box stuff I'm really not keen on the whole thing at the moment. It all depends on how it wraps up, of course.

Edit: I will say this, I absolutely loved at the end when the companions question her, the Doctor just straight up tells them exactly what happened and why she's confused. I really dislike when characters refuse to talk about <major thing> to each other and how it artificially generates tension, and I appreciate that they bookended the episode by starting with the companions not happy that she's hiding things from them and ending with the Doctor being as open as she possibly can be with them.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 26, 2020

ookiimarukochan
Apr 4, 2011

Jerusalem posted:

I don't think Jo Martin is intended as pre-Hartnell, the intention is clearly that she's some form of divergent Doctor split off at some point

But she said she was The Doctor, not The Valeyard?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I should have specified, I mean divergent as in alternate timeline as opposed to something like the Valeyard. Alternate timeline versions is something I've always felt shouldn't apply to the Doctor (or any Time Lord) even if they can access alternate timelines ala Inferno with alternate humans etc, which is one of the reasons I've never listened to any of those David Warner Big Finish stories. But again, there simply isn't enough info to really know where this is going right now.

Emerson Cod
Apr 14, 2004

by Pragmatica
I think that whatever the whole Timeless Child thing is, it's messing with the Doctor's personal timeline. She's definitely post Hartnell because we saw him steal the TARDIS in it's default setting.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

She also didn't recognize the Sonic Screwdriver, which is something that's been a thing since at least the Second Doctor.

Edit: Her boyfriend that died was a Time Lord/Gallifreyan too it seems, and involved in some kind of war since he had a medal he'd kept. These Time Lords seemed particularly martial, including the Ruth-ter.. gently caress, maybe they ARE from the Inferno universe :allears:

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