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Doc M posted:Which isn't great because it was made by Obsidian I'm aware. Comparitively, I didn't care for pillars of eternity 1, which mistook depression for fun. (Josh don't read this)
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Jan 31, 2020 22:04
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ikanreed posted:Nwn2's main campaign is at or above typical for bioware. The plot goes somewhere, most of the areas have a legitimate sense of place. The writing flows naturally. It even managed to be clever sometimes. I can give NWN2 that it has some good companions but only the first couple of ones as the rest were sorta dire. Also the obligatory romance options were kinda awful too. From what I remember of an old LP of the main campaign it also has some weird plot decisions towards the end but I can't remember what exactly.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:14
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Cooked Auto posted:I can give NWN2 that it has some good companions but only the first couple of ones as the rest were sorta dire. Also the obligatory romance options were kinda awful too. From what I remember of an old LP of the main campaign it also has some weird plot decisions towards the end but I can't remember what exactly. It ends with "rocks fall, everyone dies." literally. No joke, that's actually what they wrote
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Jan 31, 2020 22:30
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And the infamous ending, that the next two expansions had to do a hard retcon because it left such a sour taste in everyone's mouth. The influence system was interesting, just unfortunately in practice you had to pretty much kiss their rear end to get positive results, even if it wouldn't make sense or is actively bad for the character in the long haul - like attempting to get Qara to quit being a loving moron whose first response to anything remotely difficult is setting it on fire is treated like a bad thing, nevermind that's a drat quick way for her to get murdered by less patient archmages. NWN1's HotU was actually fun, but NWN1's strength really was it's ability to act as a sandbox to create modules and campaigns, I know I played a few fun ones that were miles above the default stuff.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:33
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FoolyCharged posted:It ends with "rocks fall, everyone dies." Ah yeah, that I remember from the LP. Good lord was that dumb.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:36
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Question on the sith tomb where everyone gets gassed and knocked out: What happens to your droid companions?
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Jan 31, 2020 23:11
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Seems like without orders they'd probably just stand there and not do anything. Though that seems out of character for Star Wars droids and HK47 especially, it probably works best for game mechanics and But Thou Must!
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Jan 31, 2020 23:23
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ikanreed posted:Never winter nights single player original campaign is a Bad Game. I got the Enhanced Edition when it was on sale because I enjoyed NWN and its expansions back in the day but couldn’t even get through the first chapter this time. Apart from being boring the dialogue is bad and repetitive as gently caress. “Look, hero! These WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES will surely be our salvation!” “Alas, the WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES have escaped! Quickly, venture forth and find the WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES!” “Have you discovered anything about the WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES? You must recover the missing WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES or we are all doomed!” “You have recovered one of the WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES! Keep searching to find the rest of the missing WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES! We need to find all of the WATERDHAVIAN CREATURES if we are to succeed!”
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Jan 31, 2020 23:27
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NWN1 comes across as very bland most of the time. It's very paint-by-numbers D&D, and even if you don't know much about D&D it has exerted enough influence on fantasy fiction culture that you see through it pretty fast unless maybe it's your first experience in the genre. It did take a few modest stabs at creativity, though- if any part of the campaign was memorable in a good way, it was the Charwood sequence.
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Feb 1, 2020 00:15
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Part 27: Something Left of Me to Save Last time, we helped some renegade Sith students escape, and explored two of the ancient Sith tombs in the Valley of the Dark Lords. When last we left our heroes, they had entered the tomb of Ajunta Pall...  We start in this short entryway. Nothing to do but go forward.  Hey, we actually saw the mine again and didn't run into it like idiots. That's not going to last.  Like Tulak Hord's tomb, Ajunta Pall's tomb is also crawling with tuk'ata. Nothing special about these guys.  Hmh. Those are some scary-looking droids. They're not doing anything, though.  Next to the bridge (which we can see is blocked by an obelisk), we come across a severed arm holding a datapad, presumably another Sith student who tried to enter the tomb before. Let's see what it says. Datapad posted:This datapad seems to have once belonged to an enterprising young Sith student who had ventured into the tomb in search of Ajunta Pall's sword. One of his entries is of particular note: Those guard droids don't look very defunct to me. I'm pretty sure that is yet another glitch, because they're certainly supposed to all be inactive at this point. The Sith corpse on the opposite end of this platform has some inconsequential loot, and we can't do anything with the obelisk on that side either.  There was, however, another corpse in the hallway with the tuk'ata. This one has another datapad, so let's see what that says as well... Another Datapad posted:The datapad appears to be the journal of a Sith archaeologist by the name of Veren Gal. Most of it consists of uninteresting notes on the geology of the tomb's caverns, but the final entry is as follows:  As luck would have it, the obelisk blocking our way is made of therangen.  As such, we need to blow it up, and that means entering the Give Item menu and placing a mine or grenade (any grenade except CryoBan) on the obelisk.  That should take care of that.  Oh, the obviously active defense droids are active? Who could've expected such a thing?  The two droids to the left of us were actually inactive, so I'm not sure why the two closest to the entrance were already active because that is not supposed to happen.  Even though the droids look pretty intimidating, they're quite weak and easily dispatched with Force Wave, Throw Lightsaber, or Disable/Destroy Droid.  This lever will instantly blow up the droids, but you don't earn any XP by destroying them that way.  With the droids out of commission, we can proceed deeper into the tomb. While I said last time that this tomb is more elaborate than the others, it really isn't. Well, at least in terms of the size and complexity of the tomb itself.  See, we're already at the sarcophagus. That was quick.  At the back of the burial chamber is this Sith statue that is clearly important, but we can't do anything with it right now.  There's also a corpse with some loot we don't particularly need.  For some reason, Ajunta Pall's sarcophagus is not locked like the others.  Hm? Who's screwing with the lights?  Okay, that's better. We've found three swords in the sarcophagus, and we have heard plenty about the sword of Ajunta Pall. No one said anything about three swords, though. The vibrosword is just a basic vibrosword, but the other two seem a lot flashier so let's take a quick peek at them. Silver Lined Sword posted:This blade is long and straight and sparkles with a silver glow that becomes brighter as the hilt is touched. It is quite warm, and it almost appears that the blade becomes white-hot once it is equipped. Such a fiery weapon would be devastating against an unarmed opponent. A small insignia of a flame is impressed upon the hilt. Notched Steel Sword posted:The blade of this sword is an ebony black and notched along its length to give it a cruel and jagged appearance. There is a strange visual effect upon the sword which makes it seem as if shadows pulse and ebb along its surface. It is very cool to the touch, and upon close inspection a small insignia of a dark circle can be spotted on its hilt. The notched steel sword certainly looks like it might be Ajunta Pall's blade, but who knows for sure? Neither that or the silver lined sword is any good stats-wise, with damage values of 2d12 and 1d12 respectively and no upgrade capabilities.  I guess we'll take all of these swords out of here, maybe the guy out front can tell us which one is Ajunta's sword.  Or maybe we will run into what appears to be a restless spirit blocking our way out.   I know BioWare had only so much to work with in terms of resources, but this "spirit" is very obviously just a Dark Jedi model with an active Echani Dueling Shield and it's very jarring.    In the end we were not so proud. We hid... hid from those we had betrayed. We fell... and knew it would be so... Ancient? Has it been so long that you use the word 'ancient'? I have... been here so long, so lost, I cannot... cannot remember... We were the first. The first to rebel, to betray... to surrender ourselves to the dark side. So strong, we thought... so wrong... What do you mean by 'those we had betrayed'?Everyone they ever loved, they pushed them all away? Well, maybe not.  We were... discovered? Or did we act? I can no longer remember. But here is where we came... to hide, to grow. And here we fell.Despite his generic appearance in the game, Ajunta Pall's voice actor manages to sell the character very well. He sounds exactly as you'd expect a lost, mournful spirit to sound. The writing and acting aren't exactly subtle, but it all works.   We destroyed each other. We desired the secrets of each other, to increase our power... we battled until finally our fortress rained down on top of us. And so here our old secret is buried and none of us hold it any more... is that not right? Our power fled. Oh, what became of us? Do... do the Sith still thrive? Did they ever return?Did they ever.  Maybe we shouldn't say they're currently almost invincible.    My sword... I filled it with my pride. And it is... buried with me, now. A corpse as I am a corpse. I am dead, as my faith... is dead. And I shall remain here... surrounded by blackness in death as in life...  I wish my sword to be... taken away from here. I do not wish it to rot away as I have. I command this of you.  Guess we'll giving that one to Uthar, then. But which of the swords is it?  Ajunta Pall has been dead for about 3,000 years at this point. That is a long time to linger in this tomb, unable to become one with the Force while slowly going mad. I don't think Jorak Uln meant this when he said (well, would've said if we'd picked the right dialogue option) that a true Sith never dies.  And if the sword isn't yours? Then you must... die. This is how it... must be. How will I know which sword it is? I do remember one thing of my sword... listen to me carefully... Go, then... find my sword and place it on the statue...It didn't say that on any of the swords. Still, I think we have a decent idea which sword might be the correct one.   This is a Star Wars game made by BioWare. For better or worse, they're not gonna pull an "actually, the ancient Sith Lord used a humble vibroblade, you idiot" trick on you.  Take it... take it and the other blades, even... take them and go. My darkness awaits me...   Hey, it's worth a shot.    And with that, we have somehow released the spirit of a long-dead Sith Lord from his millennia-long suffering by turning him back to the light side. I think the Jedi Council should give us a medal or something, because at this point we are going well above and beyond the call of duty.  Ajunta Pall's spirit fades away, finally becoming one with the Force. We are finished in this tomb, so now all that's left is to take the swords and go.  Oh no. I'd recognize that dumb face anywhere.  Shaardan has come to confront us because of course he has.     Now that you have it, I just thought I'd relieve you of it. It must be quite a burden, after all.  Especially not for a pathetic excuse for a Sith like yourself. Hand over the sword, worm. You know I'm the superior, here.  So, Shaardan wants a sword, does he?  He'll get what he wants. And no, I'm not talking about our lightsaber through his ribs.  Wouldn't dream of it. Shaardan is much too smart to be tricked by the likes of us, you know.  Actually, Shaardan is a moron, but not quite enough of a moron to fall for it if we try to give him the regular vibroblade. The silver lined sword, on the other hand, looks flashy enough to fool him. There you go, Shaardan. There's your sword.  You're welcome, Shaardan. Thanks for sparing our pitiful lives. You should go show that sword to Master Uthar right now.  I love how even the quest journal dunks on Shaardan. Also, why the hell is the Sandral-Matale Feud quest above this when we're sorting by order received?  I'm glad Galon didn't stop Shaardan and ask about the sword he got, because that would've been awkward.   Are you joking with me? The Sith Lord still lives? No, not exactly. Thank you for the information! I must go and inform my mentor at once of this strange news!You do that. We should also go inform Master Uthar of our various deeds, so let's head right back to the academy.    Fool. All the trouble you went through for your deception, and you did not even make an effort to verify the sword's authenticity?This is gonna be unpleasant for someone.    Master Uthar proceeds to choke Shaardan to death for his idiocy.  Good riddance.  I have the sword of Ajunta Pall. Ahhh, finally, the genuine sword! I knew that this relic would be unearthed in time. I can feel the power flowing through it! Well done! You have impressed me greatly! Go, now... you have done well, but you have not impressed me enough to declare you the victor. I have matters to attend to.Okay, we're almost done here.    What do you mean "lie"? That's the truth! They are in fact gone, just not dead.   It's easier to just give Uthar one of the artifacts instead, but whatever. That worked out.  I would certainly hope so! Two of the other prospects are dead, and the other two have left. We kinda win by default at this point.  I would advise you to be rested and equipped before we leave. Return to your quarters now and seek me out in the morning. Finally.  Yuthura doesn't have a lot to say at this point, and we have no other business left at the academy so we should head back to Master Uthar and get this test started.   I will tell you the details when we are there, young one. You will, however, fight for your life... that is why I suggest you be in sufficient health. I am ready to go.  Here we go, then. I see no one bothered to haul Shaardan's body out of the main hall, that's how much everyone respected him.   Indeed, the final test on Korriban is one of the few sections in KotOR where you actually have to go solo. The only slight worry here is our lack of durability, but our damage output should more than make up for it.  And here come the masters, each of them thinking they're going to betray and kill the other, but only Yuthura knowing what's actually going to happen.   Is that a tone of mischief in your voice, dear Yuthura? You should know by now that no scheme is certain. As should you, my master. But I was only agreeing with you. Should we not get on with the test? You are to follow in their footsteps and reach the ancient Star Map that lies deep within. There you will find a Iightsaber, amongst other things. The Iightsaber is for you: your initiation present. Return to us once you have it, for you the test does not end there.Seems simple enough.  Do you understand what I have told you? Are you ready to begin?  Fine. Let's get this test started.   I'm sure.  Huh, we haven't seen any wraids on Korriban until now.   The regular wraids are easy to stun and go down in a single hit.  The hulak wraids are more dangerous and harder to hit, but still not too much of a worry when we can deal this much damage.  There are also several mines for us to run into in this tomb. Get used to that, because we can't see any of the drat things. We've got three paths we could take here, so let's start with the one to the west.  Hm. A closed door. Let's check out the skeleton next to it before we do anything else.  I wonder what our bony friend's datapad says. Datapad posted:This datapad appears to be the journal of a Sith who quite obviously did not make it past this portion of his final test. Most of the journal consists of the Sith's account of gaining enough prestige with Master Uthar to take this test... only the final entry appears to concern the test, itself: Terentatek beasts? Oh boy. You know what, let's head east instead.  The east corridor leads to this room, which has a locked door at the end and these three pillars in the middle, as well as a computer next to the pillar closest to the locked door.  Hmm. Hmmmm. I think we all know what's coming.  Computer posted:Caution! Some of the systems are very delicate and improper transfer of power can cause an electrical overload! In order to unseal the chamber, all of the following four systems must be transferred to the right pillar:  Yep, it's Tower of Hanoi, BioWare's favorite puzzle. You all know how this works, so let's skip ahead a few minutes.  This puzzle is basically muscle memory by this point.   Before we go through the door, we'll grab the goodies on the skeleton next to it. The Zabrak blaster pistol is quite decent.  More wraids lurk behind the door.  goddammit  That hulak wraid is blocking its friend's path to us, which isn't very smart.  Right then, let's see what we've got inside this chamber.  Some loot that is worth a decent bit of money. Nice.  Apparently, the man himself isn't buried here, but we do find Naga Sadow's blade. Entering the chamber is completely optional so you don't have to waste your time with Towers of Hanoi if you don't want to, but Naga Sadow's Poison Blade is a very good melee weapon that can poison opponents and well worth picking up.  With that detour out of the way, let's return to the west corridor and go through the door at the end... after making sure to save our game.  We find ourselves in a big empty room. This seems ominous.  Well, there's one terentatek. It's not aware of us just yet, which works in our favor because we can set some traps before getting its attention.  The average plasma and flash mines probably won't do much, but every little bit helps.  While it's a bit difficult to see due to the general lack of decent lighting in this place, there is indeed another terentatek in the far corner. While you could aggro both of the creatures and take them on simultaneously, that's probably not going to be very conducive to your health and well-being so you really should take these beasts on one at a time.  Okay, here comes one of them now. The other one is still staring at the wall, so this is working out nicely.  Err... I'm over here.  Apparently, I managed to break this terentatek's AI and it doesn't know what's going on. Hey, I'm not complaining.  Should maybe have buffed ourselves or at least activated the melee shield before engaging these monstrosities. Eh, I'm sure we'll be fine.  A Stun-Attack-Heal pattern seems to work quite well. Stasis would be helpful because it debilitates enemies for longer, but we don't have it yet.  The terentatek gets a couple of shots in, but we're never in any danger of dying here. One down, one to go.  Our mines didn't do much, but that's okay.  Back to the pattern. I'm using Flurry instead of Master Critical Strike for some reason (maybe I figured it'd do more damage, or maybe I was just trying to switch things up a little), which isn't optimal because it's the basic Flurry feat with the hefty penalties to our hit and evade rates. Still, we're doing okay thus far.  Jedi Jesus!  Fortunately, we had plenty of juice left in the tank for healing, so even though the terentatek gets another hit in we manage to topple the beast. I have no clue why I didn't use the melee shield or any stimulants at any point, but we did okay without them so who cares.  With both terentatek dead, we're free to take a look around the room. Over on this side, we find the remains of Shaela Nuur (the journals say Nur, but it's Nuur), the last one of the Jedi sent to hunt the terentatek on Korriban. The Solari crystal is quite nice (Attack +3, Damage +3, Damage +1-8 vs. Dark Side) and can only be found here since it's a legendary crystal bestowed to Shaela by her Jedi Master. Let's find out what Shaela's journal says... Shaela's Journal posted:This data pad is the personal journal of the Jedi Shaela Nur. Her last entry is particularly compelling: Shaela did ultimately end up heading down the dark path, not because she loved Duron (again misspelled as Duran in the text) like Saresh thought but because some idiot decided to leave her and Duron to their own devices, which led to Duron's completely avoidable death and drove Shaela towards the dark side. I'm sure Saresh would say this whole situation could've been avoided if Duron and Shaela hadn't fallen in love in the first place and he did nothing wrong. Guun Han Saresh was the worst and I for one am glad he got eaten by the ritual beast on Kashyyyk.  In any event, the lever in the southwest corner of the room opens the locked door nearby. You can actually get to this lever without killing the terentatek, run through the door and kill the terentatek without them being able to reach you.  For the love of...   Once we finally get through the door, we find two pillars in this chamber. The Pillar of Fire contains the Special Fire Grenade, and the Pillar of Ice has the Special Cold Grenade, as described in the datapad we found earlier.  Only one way we can go now.  And there is the acid pool mentioned in the datapad. Obviously, we can't walk across that, which is why we needed to get past the two terentatek and grab the grenades.  If you're too stupid to live, you can throw the fire grenade into the giant pool of acid. We'd prefer not to die like an idiot, though, so we'll throw the cold grenade instead.  Perfect.  All we have to do now is walk across.  The Star Map must be behind that door, so let's just...  MINES  (also holy poo poo that hurt)  Here we are. The fourth Star Map is ours, hopefully nobody's placed any more mines in this room.   We're getting close to finding the Star Forge. Only one more map remaining.   And there's the lightsaber Uthar wanted us to retrieve.  Let's return to the masters and find out what happens between Yuthura and Uthar.   You took a great risk in acquiring the artifact. You used your mind and your power... no peaceful meditation, no pacifism. Sometimes you must fight in order to achieve. This gives you your passion, this makes you stronger. This is what makes you superior. That is the lesson we teach with that part of the final test. Do you understand?  Did you not feel a moment of excitement in the tomb? Did your passions not flow and make you feel stronger and more alive? What purpose would be served by restricting yourself from such? I would say only the purpose of the Jedi. Through this they would control you and restrict your potential. Killing two terentatek beasts single-handedly, no big deal.    Whatever, let's just get this over with.  All life must compete in order to flourish. Such is the natural way of the universe. To stand still is to know death... one must always be moving forward. So is it the same amongst the Sith. Compete or die. Mercy is irrelevant. So it behooves you in this final test to strike down one you are familiar with, for no other reason than to prove you are superior and without mercy. Alright, here we go.    Sadly, Yuthura, it is you who are mistaken. Your pupil is more ambitious than you realize... isn't that so, young one?Uthar has no idea what we've done. He still thinks we betrayed Yuthura.  You can still change your mind and side with Uthar if you wish, although doing so wouldn't make a lot of sense if you've poisoned him. You can also challenge both if you're so inclined.   The poison has worked its magic and Uthar is weakened.   He's not weakened to any great extent, but having him at 2/3 health at the start of the fight is quite nice.  Let's finish this.  Or not, because he can just spam Death Field to get all his health back. That works too.  Despite Uthar's efforts to postpone his demise, we've managed to stun him and Yuthura can also heal herself with Drain Life. You know what happens to stunned opponents, right?  Yep, Uthar is done and the academy is under new management. The game goes to a cutscene the instant we land the killing blow.  That's what I said.  But of course, we are still dealing with the Sith here. Yuthura thinks we're a threat to her power, so she wants to get rid of us.   Actually, I don't think she wants to, but she feels she has to. This is unfortunate because there is still good in her, but we will do what we must.    Really?    I... was right the first time, back at the cantina, wasn't I? There is something different about you... more so than I even suspected.  So what happens now? Will you show me mercy? Will you... just let me leave?That's one option, but maybe we can come up with something even better.   Sadly, Yuthura will not join the party. There's a mod that allows you to recruit her, of course, and I'm pretty sure there's one for Ajunta Pall as well.  Still, she doesn't have to stay here on Korriban and train Sith for the rest of her life, because that's obviously not what she actually wants to do.  All the things I wanted to do, all the wrongs I wanted to right... I haven't done any of it. They just get farther and farther from my mind. All I've cared about is power and... and myself. This isn't the person I was. There's still time to change that. You're right. Maybe... maybe what I needed most was peace, after all. The Jedi tried to show me that.Based on our earlier conversations, it seemed like the Jedi actively tried to stop Yuthura, a former slave, from helping her fellow slaves and that is what caused her to eventually join the Sith. If the Jedi simply tried to calm Yuthura down a bit and stop her from acting out of anger, that is somewhat more understandable but I'm still a bit wary about giving the Jedi the benefit of the doubt here. I am sure they could've handled the situation without losing a promising Padawan to the Sith.   Yuthura bids us farewell. While it's a shame she can't join us, hopefully she'll find her own path.  Before we leave, we'll just grab Uthar's stuff. He's not going to need it.  And so, we're done on Korriban. Now all that's left is to reunite with Jolee and Juhani and get off this rock.  Err...  Might as well be honest at this point. They wouldn't believe us anyway if we tried to lie.   I'm not sure how Yuthura got out of the Valley without these guys noticing. Maybe they just missed her.    Okay, well, I guess we'll be doing this the hard way then. The male Sith apprentice had the right idea and it would've been a lot smarter for them to just pretend they never saw us, but this lady really wants to avenge Master Uthar.   That goes about as well for her and her crew as you'd expect.  All of the Sith somehow know Uthar and Yuthura are gone and there is no master anymore, and go hostile as soon as we enter.  Jolee apparently was in the middle of a whole bunch of Sith so he got knocked the gently caress out. Also, the Force Wave effect here makes our lightsaber look a bit... questionable.  We also gain a level in all of this, so we get another Persuade point and learn Stasis.  Guys, we really don't need to do this. You could all walk away instead of throwing yourselves at our lightsabers. No?  Fine, have it your way.  And then, all was quiet. I think it's safe to say all lessons at the Sith academy are on an indefinite hiatus.  The guard has no idea what is going on.   Yeah... uh, about that. You guys might want to consider a different career path.  Next time, it'll be the usual post-Star Map roundup of party member conversations and whatever sidequests we'll be able to start. DMorbid fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 03:52
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Mass Effect has the best version of the Hanoi Tower puzzle because you can just use a bunch of omnigel to skip it And if you don't finish Dustil's sidequest before coming back from the star map he becomes hostile along with the rest of the academy. So uh yeah, don't ever forget to do that!
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Feb 1, 2020 04:18
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If you do play the BG games, low level 2nd ed D&D kinda blows
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Feb 1, 2020 04:22
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So much for all that careful infiltration and intrigue.
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Feb 1, 2020 04:40
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Gnome de plume posted:Mass Effect has the best version of the Hanoi Tower puzzle because you can just use a bunch of omnigel to skip it Speaking of dustil: A son with good opinions on his dad: "I'm going to stay here and be a double agent so I can rescue my friends from these evil jerks!" Best dad ever: "sorry son, what was that? We just finished murdering everyone else here."
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Feb 1, 2020 04:42
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The Academy firefight is one of the few tough parts of the game. You're outnumbered, everyone's aggro immediately, and unless you had the foresight to leave your party members by the valley exit before starting your test, there's a good chance they'll get wiped out like Jolee did here. You only get the firefight if both Uthar and Yuthura are dead/departed. Sadly there's no way to make the students believe that you're in charge of the academy now  Fun fact: you can poison both of them, team up on a poisoned Uthar, fight a poisoned Yuthura, and still redeem her! She doesn't hold a grudge! zakharov fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 05:41
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Tater Love 
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Huh. I've never had it be anything but routine. Sandpeople, second Calo fight, and other things not yet seen were always much harder for me.
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Feb 1, 2020 05:49
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Converting the dead? Guess you're a Space Mormon now.
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Feb 1, 2020 12:34
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The Ajunta's sword quest is my favorite side quest in the game so far. I liked the resolutions, both finding the right sword and giving the wrong one to that jerk whose name I forget. I also liked the inclusion of a Dark Jedi spirit who didn't seem all that Dark. [Moment of silence for the Jed in love] Guun Han Saresh was really an idiot. Love is not something that warps you to evil, not when you react to it the right way. It's a source of binding, an enhancement to friendship and strength. As a divorcee who's still friends with his ex, I know this to be true. I too am glad a beast ate that dingbat. Putting mines behind a pool of acid puzzle just seems unnecessarily cruel. And very Sith. Very convenient for the poison on Uthar to kick in just as the fight with him begins. I would have liked Yuthura better as a party member too. Oh well. I still liked her character arc resolution though. FoolyCharged- That is a good dad bit. I also like "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." My favorite TV dad said that one. 
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Feb 1, 2020 16:08
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And now comes the one part that anyone who’s played KOTOR will remember. It’s a shame that on the face reading of their fundamentals, the Sith actually do demonstrate that their philosophy does have some merit, and it offers surprisingly practical insights that the Jedi don’t... And then they decided to build upon those fundamentals to say “and that’s why being Turbo-Hitler is A-okay!”
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Feb 1, 2020 18:00
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It makes sense. The Sith are all about feeling powerful. They want the emotional high of being insanely angry, etc rather than thinking about empathy or compassion. Note what they always talk about: They're always on about how the Dark Side is forbidden because it's powerful, etc. And it's always the Dark Side in the end, not the passions or emotions or feelings themselves, because what they want is the power, not the feelings. Hence why they trend towards anger and hatred and try to get love or compassion out of their pupils like Yuthara. They're as blinkered as the Jedi, and even more destructive, because they love the feeling you get when you throw a tantrum.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:20
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Night10194 posted:They're as blinkered as the Jedi, and even more destructive, because they love the feeling you get when you throw a tantrum. "You got upset, ergo I win" - Sith Lord or alt-right Twitter personality?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:49
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achtungnight posted:Guun Han Saresh was really an idiot. Guuns ruin everything. 
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Feb 1, 2020 20:21
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Part 28: The Leviathan's Prey Last time, we found the Star Map on Korriban, turned both our Sith Master and an ancient Sith spirit back to the light side, and killed almost everyone in the Sith academy. Job well done, then.  Before we can board the Ebon Hawk and leave Korriban, this older gentleman stops us at the docking bay.   Ha! Jolee? Jolee Bindo? Why, you old freak! Last time I saw you, you were still wandering the galaxy in that old tug. I thought you were dead, old man. I crashed somewhere and decided to stay. Heh heh.  Ah, old man conversations. Always a good time.   "We kind of just killed the entire Sith population of Dreshdae, so we're in a bit of a rush."  Sunry is is another old man, presumably.   That's preposterous. I know. Elora is beside herself, as you can imagine. Maybe you could help them? I'm sure Sunry would appreciate a Jedi's assistance right about now. Perhaps I will at that. It's up to my friend, here, actually. I'm just tagging along. Well, we'll be going to Manaan as soon as we finish this next round of party member dialogue and sidequests, so I see no reason not to look into this Sunry case as well.    Alright then. I actually forgot you can trigger the Sunry sidequest before you go to Manaan, not that it matters much because once we get to Manaan Jolee will still act as if he'd never heard about Sunry's murder accusations.  Barring any further sudden ambushes by old men, we'll return to the Ebon Hawk so we can start our traditional post-Star Map party member conversations.  The Qel-Droma robes we found miraculously intact on the skeleton of Duron Qel-Droma are the best light side Jedi robes you can find in KotOR. There's another set we get near the end of the game, but I'm pretty sure it actually has completely identical stats! Appearance-wise, the Qel-Droma robes just look like regular brown Jedi apparel, which is a shame.   Access complete: I have recovered information on my owner previous to the commercial officer, master. Intriguing.Anyway, now that we're able to raise our INT by 5 points and gain a +2 modifier, we can get to 11 Repair and that means we can restore another one of HK-47's memories.   Answer: It does not seem so, master, no. He required a protocol droid only and wanted one as cheaply as possible. I do not know who sold me to him. I do remember that I was very pleased to be the property of a senator. One of his assistants discovered my assassination functions later through questioning.That assassination function was nothing but trouble, I tell you.    I was most proud to have partaken in the political system of the galaxy. During the time my owner possessed me, he gained significant rank. Given time, I believe he could have become Chancellor. I even eliminated a few key opponents that he did not ask for... freebies, if you will.That seems a tad... irregular.  Answer: Certainly. Why not? I am an intelligent droid, you know. I see an opportunity and I take it... and my master was most pleased with my work. Observation: I think he would have done far better had he not allowed his use of me to become personal. He set me on his wife. And why would he do that? Answer: I am unsure. The human was most agitated and angry. I believe his wife had done something that had displeased him greatly.   When I found the wife and her companion, I proceeded to launch my attack... but my master interposed his own body and was destroyed. It was rather a strange meatbag thing to do, do you not agree? Naturally I shut myself down, my master being terminated.Yes, very strange indeed.   Well, it appeared he got a conscience at the end. Observation: I find that unlikely. Perhaps he was more concerned that the death of his wife would be more likely traced back to him. What happened to you then? Statement: I believe the senator's wife was unsure what I was or what to do with me. It was she who sold me to the corporate officer, an acquaintance. Have you recovered any other memories? Answer: As previously, I have found a few more programs which will enhance my performance. A most gratifying discovery, in fact. There is still nothing from previous memories uncovered. You will have to operate again if you desire to find them. With luck, I will discover the stimulus to unlock my core and all this will be unnecessary. I do thank you for the attempt, however, master. Another +2 bonus, this time to defense. Now, unfortunately, this is as far as our repair skills will take us in terms of restoring HK-47's memory, but don't worry. I've got transcripts of the remaining two conversations right here. Let's take a look at them, shall we? (I'll also show whatever responses I'd pick for Zila) Third Conversation (Repair rank 14 or higher): Access complete: I have accessed information on my owner prior to the senator, master. Most… unexpected. What now? Answer: It appears that previous to my ownership by the senator, I was the property of one Bochaba the Hutt on the planet Sleheyron. And what gruesome fate awaited him? Objection: That is unfair, master. While Bochaba may have died gruesomely, I most certainly had nothing to do with it. Well… very little. Hmm. My memory tells me that, for a time, Bochaba was one of the most feared gangsters on Sleheyron. I helped him with this reputation greatly. Over a span of one year, I terminated a grand total of 322 sentient meatbags. These contracts made Bochaba very wealthy. You sound proud of that carnage. Answer: That is correct, master. I do enjoy my work, though my past owners have enjoyed utilizing my functions far more. Strickly speaking, one meatbag is the same as another. Anything I do is in support of my master. It was unfortunate but inevitable that eventually Bochaba would overstep his bounds. I had just cleared two Hutt households when the Exchange retaliated. Statement: I was not even present when my old master was assassinated. I did appreciate the artistry behind his demise upon my return, however. Why? How was he killed? Answer: Allow me to say that I have little doubt that residents of that sector were fishing pieces of Bochaba out of their soup for weeks afterward. At any rate, I quickly shut down upon my master's death. The rival Hutt claimed me along with my master's other possessions. Observation: If that Hutt had only known my true function, he surely would not have sold me to a senator he bribed regularly. You would have preferred to stay on Sleheyron? Observation: It would have suited my character, master. I have enjoyed my existence since, more or less, so I do not miss it. You would have been found out eventually. Observation: No doubt, master. It would have been a glorious battle to end my existence with. I would prefer that to rusting on a junk heap. I should dismantle you! Supplication: Please, master, have I not pleased you? I cannot control the acts I have performed… perhaps that is why memory is erased? At any rate, I act only as you instruct me… even if that means being *gulp* …non-violent. How very self-sacrificing of you. Affirmation: HK-47 exists only to serve, master. Do you remember anything else? Answer: Negative, master. There is still more memory that can be restored, however, if you wish to try. As well, I believe I can restore several programs the Hutt installed to improve my performance. Yesss… they are now active. Contemplative: I wonder how many more dead masters I might have out there. A droid can live for a long time, you know.[Because of your repairs, HK-47 will now regenerate at a rate of 1 vitality point every 6 seconds, in addition to his other abilities.] Fourth Conversation (Repair rank 17 or higher): Access complete: I have recovered the last of my deleted memory, master. Unfortunately, my history is still not complete. What? Why not? Answer: As I did inform you, master, the majority of my memory is still locked within my core. That can only be accessed by the appropriate stimuli. And I have no idea what that stimuli might be, unfortunately. Sadly, it seems my true origins will always be a mystery. Are you sure your core isn't just damaged? Observation: If it was, master, your restorations will certainly have ensured that the proper stimulus restores my core's functions. Sadly, that could have already happened and we missed it, and my core was too damaged to activate. Oh, woe is me. You are eager to find your origins, are you? Query: Wouldn't you be, master? Here I am, surrounded by all these meatbags and all I desire is true perfection. Surely there are more droids like me out there, or is that too much to hope? Well... Objection: Oh, fine. Laugh at me, master. Humiliate your pet droid, go ahead. So tell me about this last owner, then. Correction: That would actually be my first owner, master. The first I can remember. I had completed an assassination in Mandalorian space… though I have no knowledge of what my target was or who sent me. Regardless, my motor function had been damaged and I could not return to wherever I had been sent from. A Mandalorian soldier claimed me as 'booty', I believe. He repaired me… poorly, I might add… and proceeded to use my assassination protocol to raise his rank. Does no one decent ever find you? Observation: *You* found me, master. Perhaps you are simply fortunate that my assassination protocol no longer functions? At any rate, it seems that my Mandalorian owner finally decided to send me against Mandalore, himself. My poorest performance, sadly. Oh? Why is that? Answer: I was captured by this Mandalore during the attempt. He was able to reverse my programming and send me after my own master. It was quite distressing. There was little I could do. Needless to say, I dispatched the Mandalorian soldier efficiently. Once I deactivated, I believe I eventually ended up on the black market and was sold to the Hutt on Sleheyron. *sigh* My darkest day. So you killed *that* master directly. Statement: So I did. I am not very proud of that, master. The soldier seemed very startled, I must say. You are just a travelling piece of bad luck, aren't you? Objection: That is so unfair, master! Have I not brought you a great deal of satisfaction? You don't want to hear the answer to that. Statement: You are a very harsh master, master. I like you. So you couldn't kill Mandalore, hey? Statement: With all due respect, master, he *is* the leader of the Mandalorians. Perhaps my old master was foolish to send me after him. So can you remember anything else? Answer: There are a few Mandalorian implants that I can activate, now. They will improve my performance. Beyond that, master, there is nothing more I can relate to you. With luck, we will discover the stimulus to unlock my core very soon.[Because of your repairs, HK-47 will now regenerate at a rate of 1 vitality point every 3 seconds and has gained an additional +2 bonus to his dexterity.] And there we go. My apologies for the wall of text, but I wanted to show these conversations in some form and this was by far the quickest way to do so. We still have no idea about HK-47's origins, but we did learn the four previous masters of his are all dead and three of them were directly killed by him, albeit not intentionally. I'm sure we've got nothing to worry about. Let's go listen to something less violent, such as Canderous' war stories.   The one where the Jedi Revan beat my people. We started by conquering worlds just outside the Republic. We did it quietly so the Republic wouldn't really know what was going on until too late. When we finally did hit the Republic worlds, they had no idea we were coming. We came in through three invasion corridors in adjacent sectors. Anyone who put up a fight - or wouldn't fight - was crushed. We razed whole worlds trying to provoke the Republic into fighting us. I don't particularly enjoy wiping out worlds for its own sake, but the cowardly tactics the Republic defenders used left us little choice.If the Republic had engaged the Mandalorians as soon as they started attacking worlds on the Outer Rim, they apparently would've avoided a lot of needless slaughter, not to mention the fact the Mandalorians wouldn't have been able to stockpile the resources they did.   They underestimated our resolve and what measures are acceptable in war. Those who cannot defend themselves should not be around those who can in battle. If annihilating a city is the kind of power it takes to overwhelm a Republic shield device, then that‘s what we did. Necessary force to destroy all opposition.I suppose the Republic expected the Mandalorians to fight fair once the wars finally started, and we saw how that turned out.   There was no honor in wiping them out like rats. But some of your forces did redeem the Republic in our eyes... especially later... Later... when Revan had joined the war. But we'll get back to that, we've wasted too much time already.No, we'll talk about it now.   At the start, they were not much of a threat to speak of, but once the Jedi Revan had taken charge, things began to turn against us. The Republic fleets began to use more than just basic tactics. Feints, counterattacks, mass deceptions. Revan was a genius on the field. Revan abandoned worlds of their defenders so that others would be too fortified to strike, and was willing to make sacrifices in order to advance goals. And in the end, Revan proved too much for us.  It's amazing that they could rebuild their fleet so fast. But at the time, it looked like the galaxy was in our grasp! I still remember that final battle in the skies above Malachor V. The two fleets filling the space around it, outshining the stars...You will learn everything there is to know about Malachor V in the sequel.   It was by the actions of one person, the Jedi Revan, that you prevailed. Revan's strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity, the tenacity and the subtlety of Revan's plans. Revan fought us to a standstill and then began pushing back. We didn't really have a chance.  And Revan won. I don't hold a grudge against Revan, and neither do any of my people. It was the greatest moment of my life to be in that battle. If Revan had been a Mandalorian, nothing in the galaxy would have stopped us. But wishing for the past to be different is useless. Better to look to the future. As we should now. We'll talk more later, I think. No, we'll talk more now.    After that last battle, those of us that survived were stripped of our weapons, our armor, and our Basilisks. Revan's forces destroyed them while we were forced to watch. Those who hadn't fled earlier were left with nothing to call their own: no weapons, no armor... only the honor of having fought in the battle we just lost. For many this was not enough. While the rest of us were sent into exile on the Outer Rim, they tried to relive the old days - raiding worlds. They're nothing more than bandits now.So we've noticed. The Mandalorians we've been fighting were nothing but a shadow of what they used to be.   Enforcing for Davik was not... stimulating. The gangs on Taris and Davik's rivals were trash. They give no thrill in battle, no honor or glory in defeating them. It was like stepping on bugs. I sought worthy challenges, but the best that Taris could offer were nothing to me. But I think now - with you - I may finally find opponents worth fighting.  Canderous had a lot to say this time around. I guess we'd gained a few levels since we last chatted with him.  I don't remember if we already saw this line from Mission, so here it is.  Next, we've got Juhani. She clearly has some history with this Dak Vesser guy we met on Korriban, so let's ask about that.   He was a kind man, but... frustrated. He felt the Jedi were too controlling, too limiting... more so than I did. When he decided to leave the Order, he asked me to come with him. He... he said he loved me. No, I didn't. I enjoyed his company, as a friend, but nothing further. I had no idea he felt as he did.It did sound a bit like something like that might have happened.  He reminds me of what I was when you found me in the grove. I... feel sorry for him. But he has chosen his path, hasn't he? If I thought he would accept an offer of help, I would give it. Let us... just move on, please.All right.    In the early days of the Mandalorian war, there had been fighting closer to the Outer Rim worlds.  They sought to test themselves against us, I think... test themselves by bombing our world, slaughtering my people while they slept or while they ran. That they did, as we just learned from Canderous.  We did resist, and in spite of their violent attack we did stave them off for quite a while. But in the end we were doomed...  Our interstellar communications were the first things the Mandalores hit. All other short-range communicators were jammed... we were on our own. We knew what was coming. We had fought the Mandalorians in the first war against Exar Kun and the Sith. We knew there would be no mercy for us. The most we could do was pack the few of our people who survived onto what few ships remained and send them off into space as fast as they could. Most did not make it.I wonder how Juhani feels about Canderous being on our team. I don't think she ever brings that up in any way, and we can't ask either.   They fled as far as they were able, and eventually settled on Taris. They could stand running no further, I think... But Taris was a horrible choice. Dominated by humans, intolerant of other species, it made everyday life unnecessarily hard.  My father... my father turned to stimulants. He spent much of his time in local bars and dives. But we are warriors. It runs through our blood. And when he was on stims he... he... he became foolish... he let his warrior nature get the best of him. So he would get intoxicated, and he would fight, and finally one day he would die.  Oh man. That's awful.  Sorry, but we must.   It was not easy for her.  She worked. She worked as hard as she was able, but over time she began to waste away. I later learned that she was unable to get enough money to feed both of us, and had to start borrowing from the Exchange, a band of cutthroats and smugglers. But even that was not enough... She hid what she was doing from me. She gave most of her food to me, so that I would be strong. But she herself was suffering deeply from it. In the end she could go on no longer, and collapsed at the cantina where she worked one day.Oh no...   I sat by her bed for days as she lay there dying. I never want that to happen to someone I care about ever again... But there was still the money she had borrowed... She had never paid it back, and made no provisions for her death. You must understand: the Exchange is brutal. They care nothing for the life of a sentient being. They are the major suppliers of slaves on Taris.poo poo.   You have no idea what it is like to be bound like a beast and treated as such. It was the worst time of my life.And here we were on Korriban just now, making Juhani pretend to be a slave.  I really wish the game had enough reactivity for us to apologize for that.   But the Jedi soon left to fight their war. And I was left with a dream...I thought the Jedi didn't come to planets to free slaves, or care much about their plight in general.   And we both know what has happened since then.  Someday I may make it up to you, but for now, let us keep on the task at hand. We'll get back to Juhani later, but there's more people to talk to before that. I think Jolee might have had something to say but forgot to talk to him at this point, but Carth definitely has something on his mind.   As for whether or not he'll be my son again... I don't know. He's so full of anger and hate... I wasn't expecting him to be like this. Maybe we can work it out. I hope so. I guess I'll have to wait and see. Thanks, by the way... for all your help.  Yes. What happens afterwards? I... never thought about it. I suppose I always assumed that I would be dead once Saul was.  I'm not in the same situation, now. I wouldn't risk hurting you... or the others. You don't think I would throw away everything we're doing here, do you?  If I saw Saul, however... if I had the chance... I don't know what I would do. I really don't. I mean his death has been my entire focus for so long.  As for what comes afterward... well, let's wait until I know that I'm around to see it.Let's hope so. We'll have time to talk to Jolee later, but as for right now let's just get off this planet. I've seen enough volcanic rock to last a lifetime.   Our next stop is the Yavin station, because we've found some nice stuff Suvam will buy at a high price.  Huh? We were in hyperspace and now we've stopped all of a sudden.  Bastila is very confused about the situation as well, which is of course understandable.  Oh, crap.   Oh, crap. If Saul is there, Darth Malak won't be far behind.   And so, the Ebon Hawk drifts helplessly towards the Leviathan.  When the Sith attacked my home world, the Leviathan - which is Saul Karath's flagship - was at the head of the fleet. My family was destroyed that day and my wife died in the Sith bombardment.As we're being pulled towards the Leviathan, Carth tells the whole crew the situation with him and Saul to get everyone up to speed.    Standing here and waiting to be captured probably isn't going to help.  Of course, we can't really try anything stupid either.   We just have to figure out who has the best chance to avoid capture so that they can come and rescue us later. It's a long shot, but it's our only hope. Yeah, seems like the best plan would be to send someone who can save us as discreetly as possible.  Hmm... let's see now. Discreet... avoiding capture... I think we've got it.  On second thought, let's maybe reconsider.  No one's going to pay attention to an astromech droid, and T3 hasn't done anything in the last 15-20 hours so I figure it's time he gets to shine.   But we can rig a back-up memory chip with a timer. When it kicks in the little fella will be reactivated and he can come find us. You can still back out of your choice at this point if you wish, but we believe in T3-M4. The little guy has got this... we hope.     We found a disabled astromech droid in the back of the ship. Wipe its memory chips and take it to the junk pile. Maybe we can use some of its parts for salvage. And here we are in the Leviathan's detention area. Can't say these accommodations are the best we've ever seen, but at least we're still alive for now.  There's Saul, who has undoubtedly come to gloat.   It was a cowardly act of betrayal! Your fleet bombed a civilian target into oblivion without warning or provocation. And the blood of those innocent people is on your hands! In war even the innocent must die. The Sith would not accept me until I proved I had truly turned my back on the Republic by bombing the planet. My wife died in that attack, Saul. And for that, I swear I'll kill you. You used to be a man of action, not of empty words. Cling to your lust for revenge if you must, but spare me your tired threats. I've heard them all before.What a wonderful individual he is. I guess that's what happens when you're Darth Malak's right-hand man.    Err... what?   The Dark Lord would probably reward me if I just killed you once and for all. But he may want to question you given the trouble you've caused him... and the history between you.We have absolutely no clue what Saul is babbling about. History? Did we work for the Sith at some point, maybe in our smuggling days? Did we work for Revan and Malak themselves during the Mandalorian Wars, perhaps? Surely we'd remember it if that were the case.   The Dark Lord will no doubt torture you for information and for his own twisted pleasure. Eventually you will tell him everything. The Sith can be very persuasive. However, Lord Malak is in another sector. It may be some time before he arrives, so I suppose I will have to fill in for him until then. Activate the torture fields. Lovely, thanks.   I'm sure you won't. However, we both know your friend's loyalties have proven in the past to be somewhat... flexible.  It is time to put your loyalty to the test. I doubt torturing you will gain me your true cooperation. Your will is too strong to be broken that way. However, even the strongest of heroes has trouble watching those they care about suffering. The interrogation will begin now. Each time you refuse to answer or give me a false answer, Carth will suffer.Oh. Oh no. Not Carth. Anything but that.   I guess the writers were assuming a female player character would be romancing Carth, in which case I suppose this might elicit some kind of a reaction. As it is, though... oof. I don't mind Carth that much, but come on. It's Carth. I know I'd care more if Saul tortured Bastila, Zaalbar, Mission, Juhani, or... well, pretty much anyone else, really.   Well, just like the last time a crazy person was asking us a bunch of stupid questions, we'll tell him to pound sand.  Cute callback to the original Dantooine line from A New Hope, there.   I could see many players doing this on purpose just to gently caress with Carth.  This first question was a test. Obviously Malak knew the Academy was on Dantooine, and it has since been destroyed by our fleet! Dantooine is an empty graveyard now. Nothing remains but a smoking ruin and the charred remains of your former Masters!If Saul isn't lying about that, I hope the Sith missed all the people we helped on Dantooine. It'd really suck if the game went "you idiot, you helped all these people and now they're all DEAD" for the second time, and this time it happened offscreen.   Now... tell me your mission. How were the Jedi planning on using you to stop Lord Malak and our Sith armada? Maybe he'll fall for this one.  Perhaps you need a reminder of the consequences of refusing to cooperate.Let me guess, he'll zap Carth again?  So predictable, Saul. The Sith should try some more creative solutions.  Now, I will ask again - on what mission did the Jedi Council send you?  Gotta say one thing for Saul here - he's really happy to be doing his job.   I see I am wasting my time here. When Malak arrives you will learn my interrogation techniques are considered merciful among the Sith. I will leave you here in your cell with a small taste of the horrors you will suffer when Lord Malak arrives.What, is Malak going to try to bore us to death even harder with a bunch of inane bullshit?  Oh. Okay. I suppose that works too. [Some time later...]   The dark side has perverted him, Carth. Once you start down the tainted path it leads you ever further into the depths of evil. I fear he is forever lost.  I suppose I'm taking the news of Dantooine's destruction quite hard. First Taris, now the Academy... is there no end to the killing?  We should have felt a disturbance in the Force when the attack came. The fact that we did not is a bad sign. I fear the dark side is growing stronger, casting shadows our vision cannot pierce. I can only hope that some of the Jedi escaped. Vrook, Vandar, Zhar... I cannot imagine all of them being gone. In any case, we have lost our one place of refuge in the galaxy. None of this will matter if we don't get out of this prison before Saul gets back!   I, uh... I have to confess something. There was a... there was a moment - just a moment - when part of me was hoping that you would tell him what he wanted to know. Just to make the horrible pain stop. This is probably the case, to be honest.  The interrogation was a sham. Saul was toying with us. He didn't care what we told him. I think it was just an excuse to torture us before Malak arrived.  Next time, T3-M4 hopefully busts us out of here before Malak arrives, and doesn't break the game in the process. DMorbid fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 23:23
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"There are too many powerful Jedi for them to ever dare attack Dantooine!" Orbital bombardment doesn't give a poo poo how many people with lightsabers are running around the surface.
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Feb 1, 2020 23:55
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Night10194 posted:"There are too many powerful Jedi for them to ever dare attack Dantooine!"  would be visible to the entire galaxy.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:18
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I always thought that statement was about how the sheer power of the Force wielded by so many Jedi Masters would magically protect the planet and make an attack foolhardy or somesuch handwavium.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:27
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It kind of reminds me of a funny detail in Return of the Jedi. Vader's redemption is one of the single most important (and satisfying) moments in the trilogy, killing the Emperor to save the life of his son. It was also completely irrelevant because Lando and company were about to blow the Death Star either way. The Emperor lost at Endor because of his showboating with the exposed core of the 'fully operational' battle station and desire to show it off even before he got hucked down a shaft.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:27
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Night10194 posted:"There are too many powerful Jedi for them to ever dare attack Dantooine!" The Sith also went in with a ground invasion and occupation force, too, according to the settlers/survivors of the destruction that you can meet in the sequel.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:28
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Night10194 posted:"There are too many powerful Jedi for them to ever dare attack Dantooine!" The extended universe takes "size matters not" really seriously sometimes. There's a story, I don't remember what, where the New Republic's Jedi academy is attacked by a Star Destroyer. All the trainees at the academy team up and use the force throw the Star Destroyer out of orbit.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:32
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Karia posted:The extended universe takes "size matters not" really seriously sometimes. There's a story, I don't remember what, where the New Republic's Jedi academy is attacked by a Star Destroyer. All the trainees at the academy team up and use the force throw the Star Destroyer out of orbit. And that’s amateur hour, compared to what Starkiller got up to in Force Unleashed.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:43
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Really, though, it’s kind of a stumper that it took Malak this long to getting around to attacking Dantooine. Revan had the whole thing about leaving the Republic’s infrastructure intact, sure, but to Malak, it probably should have been the very first target for bombardment, if his goal is all-out domination.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:27
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Night10194 posted:It kind of reminds me of a funny detail in Return of the Jedi. Vader's redemption is one of the single most important (and satisfying) moments in the trilogy, killing the Emperor to save the life of his son. It was also completely irrelevant because Lando and company were about to blow the Death Star either way. The Emperor lost at Endor because of his showboating with the exposed core of the 'fully operational' battle station and desire to show it off even before he got hucked down a shaft. While it is irrelevant to the larger battle, it does serve as an object lesson that the Jedi are wrong in the idea that you must forego personal affection/attachment. Luke avoids the Dark Side because he refuses to kill his own father. Anakin (despite being a genocidal child murderer as we learn later) is redeemed by saving his son's life at the cost of his own. Specifically it's also a rebuke to Obi-Wan and Yoda, who are adamant that Darth Vader must be killed and Anakin cannot be brought back from the dark side of the force. Regalingualius posted:And that’s amateur hour, compared to what Starkiller got up to in Force Unleashed. I mean, yeah pulling a falling Star Destroyer into the planet's surface is cool and all, but Karia is underselling the other story. It wasn't one star destroyer. It was 17 Star Destroyers, and they were hurled out of the Yavin system entirely, end-over-end, because it wasn't crazy enough.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:28
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Oh, I'm not saying it's irrelevant to the story at all; The Emperor losing to Luke and Vader and the power of love is critical. It's just you stop and think about it and on a wider scale, Luke was really correct when he said 'your overconfidence is your weakness' because it kicked Sheev's butt in more ways than his date with a reactor shaft. He basically pissed away a sure win at Endor showboating, because that's the kind of hammy rear end in a top hat he was (and it was great). And yes, it's pretty neat that ROTJ ends with the pessimism and dogmatism of the Jedi being proven completely wrong.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:34
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Angry_Ed posted:While it is irrelevant to the larger battle, it does serve as an object lesson that the Jedi are wrong in the idea that you must forego personal affection/attachment. Luke avoids the Dark Side because he refuses to kill his own father. Anakin (despite being a genocidal child murderer as we learn later) is redeemed by saving his son's life at the cost of his own. Specifically it's also a rebuke to Obi-Wan and Yoda, who are adamant that Darth Vader must be killed and Anakin cannot be brought back from the dark side of the force. He did kill Vader from a certain point of view
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Feb 2, 2020 01:34
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They could also do Force Shield to cover a wide area. I’ve never seen that power outside video games and comics, but I’m pretty sure it’s still canon. I’m intrigued as to the methods other party members use to avoid Sith capture. HK-47’s method is probably similar to the astromech droid’s, but do the non-droids just hide, hope for the best, and then just pull it off? I’m hoping for a solo rescue mission starring our chosen party member to effect the rescue, but I’m guessing the game will just do a cutscene instead. Night10194 posted:It kind of reminds me of a funny detail in Return of the Jedi. Vader's redemption is one of the single most important (and satisfying) moments in the trilogy, killing the Emperor to save the life of his son. It was also completely irrelevant because Lando and company were about to blow the Death Star either way. The Emperor lost at Endor because of his showboating with the exposed core of the 'fully operational' battle station and desire to show it off even before he got hucked down a shaft. Which is of course a callback to Governor Tarkin in Episode IV. “Sir, we’ve analyzed their attack runs and there is a danger. Shall I have your ship stand by?” “Flee now? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!” [A few minutes later]Ka-Boom! Granted, Tarkin wasn’t a Force user or Backup Clone Maker with inexplicable methods of hand waving survival, but you’d think his boss would have learned something! Oh, and let’s not forget that Luke’s confrontation in the throne room was very relevant to the battle. If he wasn’t keeping the Empire’s two Force users busy, they might have done more to thwart the Rebels. Vader in a TIE Interceptor was a huge problem for the good guys in the first Death Star battle. If he had flown his TIE in the second one too, it might have gone quite different. Likewise if the Emperor had used battle meditation. Which he might have, given how much of his power Lucas & co hand wave. achtungnight fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 01:34
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Jolee’s escape plan is by far the best, though Canderous’s is spectacularly badass.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:46
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What's Canderous's again? "Pretend to be dead, get up from my implants, heavy machine gun every fucker in my way?" or something?
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Feb 2, 2020 01:48
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Night10194 posted:What's Canderous's again? "Pretend to be dead, get up from my implants, heavy machine gun every fucker in my way?" or something? Yeah... From setting off a grenade right next to himself.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:53
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Canderous might be a generic proud warrior race guy from a lovely bunch of space warriors, but he pulls it off through sheer 80s action star-ness.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:54
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Juhani's ability to turn invisible is only ever relevant if you pick her here. If you forgot she could do that, don't worry, so did everyone else playing this game.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:58
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