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OP posted:
Please? ok good DMorbid fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 22:44
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NO SPOILERS ALLOWED WHATSOEVER 
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:05 |
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"you had one job! just the one!" anyway the scale of the Dantooine map really works against it. If these enclaves were scattered around an entire, actually full size planet, it'd make some sense but as it is you basically trip over all sorts of poo poo right out of the gate. Which, you know, I'm willing to buy as a gameplay contrivance. Screenshots don't really sell this, but the amount of time you spend just walking from a to b on Taris is incredible. like I'm pretty sure it'd cut at least a literal, full hour - maybe more - off the clock if you had faster run speed. so Dantooine being oddly compact is kind of goofy since a three minute walk takes you to every POI, including THE EVIL GROVE and all, but the alternative is worse.
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Jan 13, 2020 22:53
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When I played this I definitely killed Juhani here because I didn't realise she was a companion, lol. Very curious to see more of her now!!
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Jan 13, 2020 23:04
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The thing I always took away from Star Wars is that the Jedi philosophy makes people insanely emotionally brittle. They seem to fall and redeem at the drop of a hat outside of the original trilogy.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:33
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Night10194 posted:The thing I always took away from Star Wars is that the Jedi philosophy makes people insanely emotionally brittle. They seem to fall and redeem at the drop of a hat outside of the original trilogy. They really do, which is one reason I particularly like one character we won't meet for a while yet. I won't say anything about them though. Because spoilers which should be removed from that post on the previous page and not just spoilered out.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:55
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Night10194 posted:The thing I always took away from Star Wars is that the Jedi philosophy makes people insanely emotionally brittle. They seem to fall and redeem at the drop of a hat outside of the original trilogy. I’m starting to think that these Jedi guys kind of suck at living up to their overly-strict ideals.  Really, though, it’s not hard to see why they’ve been having so many defections from their ranks, considering they’re basically expected to be emotionless robots who have the power to single-handedly change the battlefield. If anything, it’s a wonder that they haven’t had to contend with a Revan/Malak kind of rebellion any sooner... Though I’ve admittedly never been much of one for SW Legends lore.
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Jan 14, 2020 00:20
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my bad I am not smart!
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Jan 14, 2020 00:22
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Thank you for removing that.  I don't like yelling at folks for posting spoilers.
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Jan 14, 2020 00:34
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Regalingualius posted:I’m starting to think that these Jedi guys kind of suck at living up to their overly-strict ideals. Funnily enough, one such is exactly the subject of the Tales of the Jedi comic to which this game was originally supposed to be the sequel. Calling them robots is overstating it, but the Jedi are supposed to possess a level of detachment and serenity that is rare among humans here in reality, and whose seekers here in reality do not possess the sort of power that the Jedi do, and the temptations that come with it. This is one of the reasons that I'm uncomfortable with the multi-millennia timeline that the expanded universe runs on ... I don't think these societies could last that long without undergoing major disruptions and changes.
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Jan 14, 2020 01:48
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It seems to me a lot of the time the Jedi Order's approach to the dark side regarding their students is not entirely dissimilar to abstinence education.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:09
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Speaking of robots, just what kind of position do droids occupy? Are they sapient beings or not? Because "that lady is really attached to her droid, if you know what I mean  " is something that is presented kind of oddly. Droids appear to have a range of emotions and their own desires, even with the programming and all that, but they're still bought and sold and have their minds erased regularly, so either they're not self-aware and people just anthropomorphize them way too hard, or there's some deeply horrific poo poo going on with droids.To be fair, this is a problem with Star Wars in general, but still.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:27
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Gnome de plume posted:It seems to me a lot of the time the Jedi Order's approach to the dark side regarding their students is not entirely dissimilar to abstinence education. It is pretty close until you read the fine print and see the loophole. You see, the Jedi are specifically against forming emotional attachments with other people/aliens/robots/whatever. But, SEX =! LOVE, so as long as you don't care about the other person, go for it. Also, to give you an idea of how stupid the Jedi are, look at Episode 1. What was the prophecy for Anakin? That he would bring "balance" to the force. Well, what do we have at the time of that movie, three sith (Maul, Dooku and Palpatine)? And how many Jedi? Maybe a hundred? Well, by the end of those movies you're down to 2 and 2, so I guess the prophecy was correct and balance was achieved. Well done, morons.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:05
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Gnome de plume posted:It seems to me a lot of the time the Jedi Order's approach to the dark side regarding their students is not entirely dissimilar to abstinence education. CzarChasm posted:It is pretty close until you read the fine print and see the loophole. You see, the Jedi are specifically against forming emotional attachments with other people/aliens/robots/whatever. But, SEX =! LOVE, so as long as you don't care about the other person, go for it. Though if we want to discuss sex itself, I'd guess the Jedi would say that's also a "path to the dark side" because they always say that all extreme emotions are a path to the dark side (which presumably includes pleasure). So even if you are so coldly detached that it doesn't form any dangerous emotional attachments, the act itself probably would get judged as potentially subversive.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:49
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CzarChasm posted:It is pretty close until you read the fine print and see the loophole. You see, the Jedi are specifically against forming emotional attachments with other people/aliens/robots/whatever. But, SEX =! LOVE, so as long as you don't care about the other person, go for it. Hell, anakin is so into that prophecy he does it like 3 times. He also kills obi wan turning 3:2 into 2:2 and then after he chucks the emperor down the shaft theres a couple of minutes where it goes from 1:2 to 1:1.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:56
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Yeah, it was what MagusofStars said. "The Dark Side is bad, just trust us on that. Little Bobby tried the Dark Side once and look how he turned out. Just try real hard not to think about the Dark Side."
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Jan 14, 2020 05:11
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And as we’ll see later on, the Sith creed (at least on it’s face reading) is all about self-affirmation. Sure, in practice it winds up being used as a justification to be an unrelenting dickhead, but it’s easy to see how it appeals to vulnerable Jedi who think that they’ve committed an unforgivable taboo for not being as arbitrarily perfect at all times as the Order impresses upon them from a young age.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:25
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FoolyCharged posted:Hell, anakin is so into that prophecy he does it like 3 times. He also kills obi wan turning 3:2 into 2:2 and then after he chucks the emperor down the shaft theres a couple of minutes where it goes from 1:2 to 1:1. something is off in your math there. Who are the three in the beginning and what happened to the second between ANH and RotJ? edit: nvm mind, forgot about Yoda
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Jan 14, 2020 06:00
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Gnome de plume posted:It seems to me a lot of the time the Jedi Order's approach to the dark side regarding their students is not entirely dissimilar to abstinence education. Yup, and it works just as well
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Jan 14, 2020 10:28
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I'd like to think the writers were making an intelligent parallel there, but at least in KOTOR's case, the lack of ability to actually have a middle ground thought kind of ruins it.
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Jan 14, 2020 10:35
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MechaCrash posted:Speaking of robots, just what kind of position do droids occupy? Are they sapient beings or not? Because "that lady is really attached to her droid, if you know what I mean The real answer is that droids are as sentient as they need to be for whatever story is being told. It varies wildly. I'm waiting for the Star Wars side story about the great droid revolt. Wait, that's just The Matrix.
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Jan 14, 2020 15:56
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Tater Love 
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zakharov posted:The real answer is that droids are as sentient as they need to be for whatever story is being told. It varies wildly. Sounds like someone hasn't heard about IG-88A
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Jan 14, 2020 17:23
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As I understand it there are multiple levels of drpid brain, each with its type of learning AI. It depends on the tasks the droid was built for. Astromech droids, for example, have a lot of tasks that they are needed for, including astronavigation. So they have complex brains, which over time develop personalities. Some people like those personalities, and others prefer slapping the factory default button. Over time, droids can achieve true sentience. Also keep in mind that all robots are droids.
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Jan 14, 2020 19:29
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Part 13: Family Feud Last time, we completed our third and final Jedi trial by redeeming Juhani, a Jedi Padawan who had fallen to the dark side after striking down her master during training. She has returned to the Council to accept whatever their judgement might be, and we should also return to the Masters so we can officially become a Padawan learner ourselves.  I suppose we'll hear Mission out first.  Understandably, she's been thinking about the Sith's destruction of Taris. She did grow up there, after all, even if the place was kind of a dump to say the least.   I don't really think there's anything you can say. I just have to find some way to deal with it, I guess. It'll take some time. Look, I'm not saying I can't go on or anything like that. It's just... it's a shock, you know? I mean, I knew the Sith were evil and all, but the reality of it kind of slaps you in the face. But I suppose that's why we need to stop Malak, right? The more time I spend dwelling on Taris the more chance some other planet will get wiped out. I guess that's what it comes down to. So don't worry about me; I'll be okay. And if you need my help against Malak or the Sith, I'll be there for you!Mission is shocked and horrified, of course, but she's working her way through it and promises to have our back.  Oh, hey Juhani. How did it go with the Council?  Just like that? That didn't take long.   Okay...   The fierce confrontation between us was nothing more than a part of my training. Quatra wanted me to understand the threat of the dark side, to see how easy it was to fall from the path of light.What? Not only did Juhani in fact not kill her Master, but this Master Quatra planned the whole thing all along just to show how easy it is to fall to the dark side?   After our last battle, Quatra had nothing left to teach me. I needed time alone to explore the turmoil of my own spirit. Only then was I ready to follow a guide - you - back to the light. When I left, Quatra knew her work with me was done. There are other disciples who need training throughout the galaxy, and she could not stay to see if I passed this most difficult trial. With your help, I have passed this difficult trial. The Council now feels I am ready to continue with my training, though they have asked me to wait here for the time being.Jedi Jesus on a swoop, these Masters are complete loving assholes. So, this Master Quatra decides the best way to teach her student about the dangers of the dark side is to have her actually fall to the dark side and sit in some grove for a month, hating herself for seemingly killing her Master and letting her dark side power grow stronger because that is how the dark side works. As this dark side power grows, it starts affecting the wildlife in the area, to the point the feral hogs and mutant bighorns... I mean kath hounds ACTUALLY START KILLING CIVILIANS. Everyone in the Enclave apparently knows about this and just allow it to happen, until we finally show up and the Masters can use this whole thing as our final exam! What is wrong with these people? Holy poo poo!    Why are we just accepting this?  Why are you just accepting this? I genuinely don't know if the writer actually thought this poo poo was completely fine and we should trust in the wisdom of the Jedi because the Jedi are the super cool good guys, or if we were supposed to realize that what they're doing is loving awful. At the risk of seeming slightly cynical, I am going to guess the former and highly doubt anyone involved ever considered the whole "hey, the wild animals are slaughtering settlers as a direct result of the Jedi's actions" angle at all. They probably just thought "Yeah, that's a cool test!" and left it at that.  If we had killed Juhani, Belaya would have a lot more to say here. It is not-so-subtly implied she and Juhani used to be in a relationship, as she talks about all the wonderful nights they spent together beneath the stars. Of course, Belaya will be completely distraught if you kill Juhani and will in fact turn to the dark side herself later on. But as it is, we just get this one line from her.   But though she was saved, do not dismiss what happened to her. Juhani is both dedicated and true to the ideals of the Order, yet she was still vulnerable to the dark side. As are we all. She struck her master in anger during training, and injured her greatly. But it was Quatra's choice to test Juhani this way, and it seems to have made its point.Could you guys maybe have made your point without causing a bunch of civilian casualties?   Well, for whatever it's worth, we are now a full-fledged member of the Jedi Order.  That means we've finally earned our own set of Jedi robes, so let's put those on.  We certainly look the part now.   Your training is now complete, young Padawan. And perhaps now it is time we dealt with the matter of the dream you and Bastila shared. We sent a Jedi to investigate... but he has not returned. Perhaps sending him in the first place was a mistake. The Force is guiding you through your visions; it may be that exploring the ruins is a task tied to your destiny. That is why the Council has now decided you should be the one to investigate this. The secrets to stopping Malak may be hidden within those ruins. You must investigate them and find what Revan and Malak were looking for.  Time to head back out and see if we can learn anything about those ruins.  This time, we have to take Bastila along.  Hey, it's the grumpy old man we saw in one of the guest rooms two weeks ago!     Bah! You Jedi are good for nothing but talk! I shall only wait so long before I take action on my own!As rude as he is, I can't help but feel he's not wrong about the Jedi.  Should you have time, Padawan, you may want to investigate this matter.  Your study and training are important, of course. But the Jedi are not a cloistered Order. Our influence and teachings must spread beyond the walls of our Academies. It is in the real world that we truly prove ourselves worthy of the title Jedi. You would do well to remember this, young Padawan. Bastila, we're over this way.  Bastila levels up and we give her the Force Valor power, a pretty decent buff (+2) to our attributes and saving throws. We also put an extra point to Wisdom, which just might help her face the right camera next time. No modifier increase this time, but since her WIS is somewhat low I thought I'd make an effort to boost it.  Right, off we go. We won't head to the ruins yet and will instead take the path east, past where the first Mandalorian raider was.  The path leads to the Matale family estate.  Ahlan Matale seems convinced his son has been kidnapped by the Sandrals. We weren't given any details, so we should ask Mr. Matale himself for more information.   Wow, that's quite a droid entourage.  Though I think your time would be better spent interrogating the Sandrals as to the whereabouts of my son Shen!  Many years ago I brought my family here to Dantooine to escape the crush of humanity on the Core Worlds. Soon after we settled here, the Sandrals arrived. And they have been a plague upon my house ever since! The injustices the Sandrals have committed against the Matales are far too numerous to name, but the Council is well aware of our many disputes. Recently, I discovered several Sandral droids trespassing on my land.  I have no idea what nefarious purpose lay behind their arrival - my own assassination, perhaps. Destruction of my property. Maybe a simple spy mission. I wasn't about to find out.Maybe check the droids' memory banks or something to figure out what they were doing? No?  Obviously Nurik, the unscrupulous head of the Sandral clan, has abducted my son in retaliation for the destruction of his droids!Obviously.   Why does the Council insist on stalling? The life of my son is at stake! Is it possible... yes, of course. Now I understand. I am a man of the world, Jedi. I know how things are done. I will make a... contribution... of 1,000 credits to the Council in exchange for rescuing Shen from the Sandrals. I will present the credits directly to you, of course. Whether the Council ever learns of this "donation" is completely up to you.Going straight for the bribery option. Mr. Matale definitely is a man of the world.  Of course, we're having none of that.  Eventually I will take whatever action is necessary to rescue my son... including razing the entire Sandral estate! Until you find Shen, Jedi, we have nothing further to discuss. I suggest you hurry south to their estate, lest I take matters into my own hands.We should probably haul him off for making such threats, but that's not an option.  The Matale grounds stretch further to the east. In this area, we encounter a lot of kath hounds.  A lot of kath hounds.  A lot of kath hounds.  After disposing of the kath hounds (I cut out a few encounters because I think I got the point across that there are in fact a lot of kath hounds here), we discover a body of a settler at the edge of the Matale grounds.  He's got some nice stuff on him, including the Echani light armor and the Echani shield (absorbs 50 points of energy, sonic and electrical damage), but the important thing is this diary.  A dead Sandral found at the Matale grounds seems somewhat suspicious, but it appears he was actually killed by kath hounds rather than as a result of foul play. That part about strange ruins seems interesting, though. Let's take a look at that diary of his. Casus' Diary posted:This is the diary of Casus Sandral, amateur archeologist. It details his efforts to discover the source of the ancient ruins found across the surface of Dantooine. Upon reading it, you gather that he had found some correlation between the ruins and something called the 'Rak'. Rak? Rakghouls? Probably not. Let's move on. I'm sure the Sandrals will want to know about this.   Ah, come on. There's got to be times when you've thought about it. Don't be so stuck up - you can tell me. I am not stuck up. I merely have the years of training to give me the wisdom and understanding to see how childish such an act would be. Childish? Is that a crack about my age? You ain't much older than me, miss high and mighty! Just 'cause you're some Jedi doesn't mean you can be a prissy little...   Mission kinda had that one coming, didn't she?  In any case, we need to head on over to the Sandral grounds, which are to the south of the grove.  There's the Sandral estate, which looks a lot like the Matale estate. It's almost like there's only one model for these buildings, but that can't be right! We'll come back to the estate later, but first there's more exploration to do in the area.  The albino kath hound is the strongest of the lot and will gently caress you up. We barely survive this encounter.  To the southeast, we come across more Mandalorian raiders. They meet the same fate as all other Mandalorian raiders we've encountered. They have another Mandalorian datapad (with the same message as one of the datapads we found last time), as well as some mines we'll offload to a merchant at some point, and a pair of Stabilizer Gauntlets (Demolitions +2) which go on Mission.  The eastern edge of the Sandral grounds contains even more kath hounds, including these ones that are attacking a droid.    This must be the droid that lady (Elise, although I don't think her name was mentioned) was looking for.    I'm afraid my owner became a bit too attached to me. Obsessed even. She... she tried to treat me as her dead husband. It was not healthy for her.You don't say.    If you thought Elise seemed a bit too eager to get her droid companion back... well, there you go, you were very much correct.  She was becoming more and more insular... I thought it best that I leave. She may meet other real people this way. In fact, that was the reason I came here and sought out those kath hounds. This situation is beyond hosed up.  Please... will you destroy me? Yeah, I think we'll do the merciful thing. Droids in Star Wars tend to have varying amounts of sentience depending on the requirements of the story, and C8 here is acutely, painfully aware of the complete trainwreck of a situation with his owner so he hopes destroying him would snap Elise back to reality. We don't know if that'll work, but we'll give it a shot.   Sorry, friend.  We also gained a level in all of that. Zila is up to 60 VP (I've been saying HP out of habit but Vitality Points is the actual term), and gets another Persuade rank as well as Energy Resistance. With that out of the way, let's go check out this cave.    The cave is full of creepy spider-crab critters called kinrath. These basic ones aren't much of a threat.  The hive kinrath guarding the hive is much stronger than the basic ones, so we try to use Mission's Improved Sniper Shot to stun it.  The results are somewhat mixed, particularly when Mission decides to join the fray instead of staying back. It'd be quite nice if any of our current party could equip the breath mask accessory which negates poison, but that requires medium armor proficiency. We can eventually get one that also negates Mind-Affecting and can be worn by light armor users, but poison is honestly more of a nuisance than anything else so I don't think I'll be spending 6000 credits on that thing.  Eventually, all the kinrath go down and we're free to ransack their nest.  Each of these crystal formations gives us a couple of lightsaber crystals. We'll take a look at them next time we find a workbench.  If you smash the kinrath eggs, you'll get red lightsaber crystals because   Some unfortunate Mandalorian apparently tried to get his hands on some of these valuable crystals, but didn't fare too well.  Mission has gained a level and learns Sneak Attack V, increasing the damage bonus to 5-30.  That said, there's going to be some computer slicing going on shortly, so we'll put T3 back into the party and give him an extra DEX point.  Here's the full map of the Sandral grounds. These areas are quite compact, but I still keep forgetting where some of the points of interest like the crystal cave actually are.  Well, that's not going to get us inside the Sandral estate. Let's try the front.   We could say we were sent by the Jedi Council and the droid will eventually let us in despite the fact Nurik Sandral doesn't want to see anyone, but mentioning Casus makes things a lot simpler.   In we go.   We could ask about Shen, but he refuses to tell us anything and kicks us out. Instead, we'll inform him of his son's death.   There's another cool edgelord dark side response for you if you want more dark side points. We, of course, will choose the non-rear end in a top hat option.  As Jedi, we sure do love to be serving such pleasant and reasonable people.  Yep, this is one of those feuds.    Nurik can keep his 100 credits. We're not so cruel as to demand payment from a grieving father for his dead son's diary, although of course that is also an option if you're so inclined.   Well, that definitely didn't help us find Shen Matale. This may pose a problem.  After Nurik leaves, a young woman enters the main hall of the Sandral estate.   Let's find out who this is.    What's this about, then?   We can't help you unless you tell us what is going on.   So, Mr. Sandral has in fact kidnapped Shen, just like Mr. Matale thought. There is probably more to this than is immediately obvious, though, so we should see if Rahasia can give us any more information.  Bastila seems to consider the case as good as closed.   I am afraid my father will simply kill Shen out of a mad, misguided lust for vengeance!  Please, find Shen and rescue him before my father does something he will regret forever. I would take you to the prison, but I cannot let my father see me with you. Take this key. It will open an unguarded door at the rear of the estate. You and Shen can make your escape through there. There are many security droids guarding the halls. Please hurry... you are Shen's only hope.  To hear my father tell it, Ahlan is a brute and a bully, but a rich one. He feels his credits give him the right to step all over normal people.That sounds about right.  Please find Shen and free him! You are my only hope! Why do you care about Shen? Shen and I... we... Well, we have been taught by our families to hate each other, just for being related to our fathers.Ah, of course we're doing a Romeo & Juliet thing in space.  ... and Shen was so charming, so sweet. He didn't care at all that I was a Sandral, he just accepted me for who I was, with no reservations. We talked and met again over months and fell in love. My brother Casus met him too and they were beginning to become friends, but then this whole mess had to happen...Well then, we know the story. Let's bust Shen out of here before Ahlan Matale torches the place.  With Rahasia's key, we can enter through the back.  Err, hello there. Nice day we're having.  Droids are immune to Force Push and Stun, but not to T3's flamethrower.  The door with the mine in front seemed important, but there's just an advanced medpac in there.  The room next to it, however, is the security control room. Once we finish with the formal introductions, we'll have T3 slice into that security terminal over there.  The north hallway has another door with a mine out front. That could be important, or maybe it's just another random healing item behind that.  The central security room has more droids in it. We could spend six computer spikes to reprogram their targeting systems and have them blast each other.  That would be a waste because we can do this instead, for only one spike to overload the conduit.  We'll do the same to the droids in the repair room, who are now in need of considerably more repair.  Same goes for the storage room.  Ah, T3, you little murder machine. You're okay in my book. T3 and Bastila level up, so let's see what we've got.  Droids don't have much in the way of feats, so we give T3 the blaster pistol focus. I see you lurking down there, Toughness.   Bastila gets Master Two-Weapon Fighting and Force Whirlwind. The latter is the upgraded version of Force Push, and kinda great. We'll see it in action later on.  We can enter all the rooms at the estate and grab some inconsequential loot, but there are really only two rooms that are important.  Here's the first one. This was the one that had the mine in front of it.  Shen Matale, we presume.   I'll protect you, Shen. Let's go. It is not my own safety I am concerned about. I am worried about the fate of Nurik's daughter, Rahasia. She has been trying to convince her father to release me ever since I was captured. If I escape, Nurik will think Rahasia is to blame. Nurik is insane with grief over the loss of his son Casus. If I leave with you, it is Rahasia who will suffer. I cannot allow that.Hm. Good point. We don't know what Nurik will do in his current state of mind if he finds Shen gone. That said, we can't leave the guy here either.   Who could imagine a Sandral doing such a thing for the sake of a Matale. But if she will not go, then I too shall stay. I would rather face my own death, than have her face her father's wrath because I escaped. My father thinks the Sandrals are thieves and liars who followed him here to Dantooine just to steal what he has earned for himself. My father is an egotist and can be violent at times, but I think he still cares for me. Rahasia's father seems to be falling into the same pattern as mine. They're both too unreasonable to be talked to about the other. I think the only hope Rahasia and I will have is if we can escape both of them...Yeah... it does seem like severing might be the best option for these two, unless we can somehow get their dads to understand. Those two don't seem to be in any mood to understand anything, though.  Okay, let's go find Rahasia.  Rahasia's room is in the west hallway. We could've entered it earlier, but she wouldn't have had much to say.   Shen can be so stubborn sometimes! If one of the security droids sees me wandering the halls Father will get suspicious! I can't risk it!Honestly, I don't think the security droids will be seeing much of anything. Nurik might want to send a repair bill to the Council.   All that's left to do now is to return to Shen and tell him Rahasia is waiting outside.  Yes. She promised she would meet us outside the gates. I pray she is not just telling me what I want to hear. But I will have to take that chance. Hurry, then. We must not keep Rahasia waiting.Let's get out of here.  Bastila, you're kind of in the shot.  It was all thanks to this kind Jedi that we managed to get this far at all. I thank you Jedi, for all that you have done for us. This really isn't the time for any lengthy reunions.  You're right, we should... Aw crap. Too late. Here comes Ahlan with his droids.  And as if on cue, here's Nurik and his droids. This isn't really a position we want to be in right now.  Father! Mr. Matale! Rahasia! Father! Mr. Sandral! Nurik! Ahlan!Brad: "Janet!" Janet: "Brad!" Dr. Frank N. Furter: "Rocky!" Okay, enough of that. I don't know if this scene in the game was an intentional reference, but I'm going to assume it was because it feels so strange and out of place.   I don't want to hear any of your excuses! Now I will get revenge for your transgressions! These two old goats will end up getting each other, and possibly all of us, killed unless we intervene.   My daughter is not a harlot, Matale dog! Seriously, if you idiots want to blast each other, be my guest but at least let your children get out of here first.    Shen is a grown-rear end man and doesn't need to take orders from anyone.    Rahasia is a grown woman and you can't keep her locked up in the Sandral estate forever.   I... I don't know why we fight like this. We got along in the beginning, didn't we Ahlan? I don't know how you can think of that when we have our children trying to go away together.Guys, please.    Finally.  But I don't trust you a centimeter farther, old man. Your daughter may treat Shen well, but you will never see them! They will live with me. These complete and utter idiots! For the love of... There is no emotion. There is peace...  I will not have them set foot in a Sandral household! They shall not live with the Matales!   We should discuss this more... We will praise you to the Council for what you have done and name our children after you. Thank you again. We will remember you always. Somehow, thanks to our silver tongue, we got out of that highly explosive situation without anyone getting killed or anyone even complaining to the Jedi Council at the end. As you can probably assume, this can go south in a variety of ways, but what we got is the best possible ending for the quest.  We're not quite done out here, though. As we return to the grove, to the location of the second Mandalorian group, we find some more Mandalorians and Duros have appeared. We're buffing ourselves with stimulants and the Arkanian energy shield because this is going to be a hell of a fight.    Sherruk is the leader of the Mandalorian raiders and a seriously nasty piece of work. He does a good job resisting our Force powers and has a ton of defense as well. T3's flamethrower is a great help in this encounter.  The two Mandalorians in the background are floating in the air because Bastila used Force Whirlwind on each of them. While that is appreciated, I would prefer she used that on Sherruk instead.  I had to take direct control of Bastila to point her towards Sherruk rather than his henchmen, because Zila just can't take on such a powerful opponent in a straight fight and we need to focus our efforts. Eventually, we manage to topple him.  Sherruk has some very good stuff on him, including his lightsaber collection. We've got more lightsabers now, and you know what that means!  Well, first Zila has to level up again. She gets another point to Repair and learns Force Whirlwind, which she really could've used against Sherruk because he's apparently quite susceptible to that particular power. Well, we have it now, and it'll come in extremely handy for quite some time.  Hell yeah. Some prefer the double-bladed lightsaber, but I'm all about the double saber action.  Next time, we'll turn in these sidequests and then make our way to the ruins to hopefully learn more about whatever Revan and Malak found in there.
DMorbid fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 20:20
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Dang, I never expected to think maybe the Jedi had Order 66 coming until I saw some of the messed up stuff in this game. Not pleasant. I too prefer dual wielding lightsabers. It just looks cool.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:37
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I'm a classic single-blade man myself. Blue, if you please.Doc M posted:Juhani's master is nuts And uh... oof.  I forgot about that part. Like, if nobody else was affected it might be a harsh but educational lesson in a "Yeah go ahead and drink that entire fifth of vodka because you don't trust me when I say hangovers suck" kind of way, but it looks like the writers legit forgot that there were very real consequences that hurt innocent people.
ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 20:46
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Even if you take it as a harsh but educational lesson, as I'm sure the writer intended it to be, that still completely flies against everything our Masters have been saying. They keep telling us how terrible and horrible it is that so many Jedi fall to the dark side, yet they actively let Juhani turn just to teach her a lesson about humility. If we didn't show up when we did, what's there to stop Juhani from developing her dark side powers and eventually... I don't know, leaving Dantooine and joining the loving Sith?
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Jan 14, 2020 20:59
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ninjahedgehog posted:I'm a classic single-blade man myself. Blue, if you please. That's pretty much "lazy Star Wars writing" in a nutshell: Making a questionable situation a lot worse than it was supposed to be by forgetting to include its ramifications in your moral calculations.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:00
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Maybe it's a symptom of having multiple writers? IIRC Bioware was big enough even at this early point to have a writing team. Also, put me down for double-bladed lightsabers, 'cos they're awesome 
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Jan 14, 2020 21:05
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I have never managed to persuade the dads to get along in this quest. Must be one hell of a persuade check. This is also the site of one of the more evil things you can do. If you keep egging them on, and lie about Casus' death, you can get them all to kill each other!
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Jan 14, 2020 21:07
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Carth comes the closest to pointing out how screwed up that is - though even he doesn't go far enough. First the Jedi trick you into becoming an enemy, then they welcome you back as a friend. I can't say I approve of their training methods.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:09
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Doc M posted:Even if you take it as a harsh but educational lesson, as I'm sure the writer intended it to be, that still completely flies against everything our Masters have been saying. They keep telling us how terrible and horrible it is that so many Jedi fall to the dark side, yet they actively let Juhani turn just to teach her a lesson about humility. If we didn't show up when we did, what's there to stop Juhani from developing her dark side powers and eventually... I don't know, leaving Dantooine and joining the loving Sith? Additionally, as you've pointed out we can just kill Juhani as part of our own "training". Who's to say that wouldn't make us leave/fall, as well as Belaya? That's a lot of Jedi to lose for nothing!
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Jan 14, 2020 21:50
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zakharov posted:I have never managed to persuade the dads to get along in this quest. Must be one hell of a persuade check. Yeah, this is one of the few side quests where you can be a real devious bastard if you play your cards right. If you bullshit it just right, you can wind up driving the lovebirds apart, then start a chain reaction of the families killing each other until only the droids are left. Though, yeah, I usually just wound up with the mostly good ending where the lovers hosed off to the Enclave while leaving their fathers to stew in their feud.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:52
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While everyone is (rightly) pointing out how hosed up the Juhani situation is, I want to point at the droid situation again, and the fact that there are only lovely solutions to it. Destroy her only emotional crutch, return her emotional crutch, or cause her to pine forever after something she'll never know she can get back? Those are all pretty hosed. I can understand the "she needs to meet other people, and I am not people" thing (sort of; I am willing to roll with the inconsistent way Star Wars treats AIs for now), but there has to be an easier way to go about weaning her off her emotional support droid, and "that droid you loved so much and fixated on is DEAD" is the kind of thing that you'd think would just make things worse. Also as a side note, the whole "hey the way the Jedi do poo poo is pretty hosed up if you think about it, like, at all" thing is one of the major points of KOTOR2, along with it being "hey Bioware Morality kind of sucks, doesn't it?"
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Jan 14, 2020 21:53
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That is some quality Bioware writing going on with Juhani's backstory. I'm amazed NO ONE went "Wait hold on here" during the development process. Because that is some really terrible motivation to have you do stuff that just gets worse the more you learn and think about it.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:11
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Regalingualius posted:Yeah, this is one of the few side quests where you can be a real devious bastard if you play your cards right. If you bullshit it just right, you can wind up driving the lovebirds apart, then start a chain reaction of the families killing each other until only the droids are left.  THE COUNCIL SUCKS AND THIS IS WHAT I THINK OF THEIR ERRANDS, NO YOU SHUT THE gently caress UP DAD"?edit: I gotta say, I knew the dark side path was poorly written and that there were problems with the writing in general, but I genuinely did not remember how bad some of this stuff was. I guess when you're just playing through the game and skipping through the dialogue a lot because you've seen it a million times, you don't really pay attention, but then you do an LP and have to actually listen to everything and edit the updates together and realize how idiotic it often gets. DMorbid fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 22:18
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Doc M posted:Yeah, that is certainly a thing you can do. It just seems awfully, awfully petty and I don't really see any reason why a dark Jedi would even bother to do such a thing since it's not like that benefits them in any way. I guess they get to laugh at the misery of the peasants like the sociopath they are, but can you imagine any of the established darksiders in the movies doing that for literally no reason whatsoever aside from maybe " To be fair, that is absolutely something kylo ren and anakin would do.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:43
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I don't know. I could maybe see Kylo Ren considering it because he's an idiot and might think it'd make him look like a totally cool Sith Lord, but Vader? I don't think so. Even when he killed literal children, he didn't do it just because he could. I'm not saying he would've helped the families either, of course not, just that this sort of petty bullshit would be beneath him unless he directly benefited from it in some way.
DMorbid fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 22:51
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To be honest, 'The Jedi order as an institution is insanely hosed up and kind of awful' has been an (accidental) staple of Star Wars ever since they moved beyond the Original Trilogy. KOTOR 1 and the prequels are basically a long series of 'no wonder these fuckers eventually screwed everything up and got annihilated'.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:05
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Night10194 posted:To be honest, 'The Jedi order as an institution is insanely hosed up and kind of awful' has been an (accidental) staple of Star Wars ever since they moved beyond the Original Trilogy. KOTOR 1 and the prequels are basically a long series of 'no wonder these fuckers eventually screwed everything up and got annihilated'. Hmmm... this army of VERY convenient soldiers was discovered by tailing an assassin and placed by a dead man on a planet hidden from us because someone deleted all mentions of it from our massive archive. Oh well, let's use it and drop all suspicions after making this call!
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Jan 15, 2020 00:48
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I think the dark side option for the family feud is amazing because it's so ridiculous and over-the-top. All the dark side options in this game are basically "I did it for the lulz" type stuff but this is the pinnacle, and it just loops back around to being absolutely hilarious.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:53
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