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apropos to nothing posted:which btw that has a lot more to do with why Im antistalinist than anything trotsky or anyone else ever write. Stalin liquidated pretty much everyone responsible for the Bolshevik revolution. well, I’m a Bolshevik right now and I would like to not be murdered or imprisoned after a revolution by other Bolsheviks. that's not true and also you're not a bolshevik. bolsheviks were people 100 years ago in russia. you might as well call yourself a roundhead
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Dec 27, 2019 07:09
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VROOM VROOM posted:How many of you are the bearded middle-aged guy sitting across from me at the library, reading a book about Stalin and occasionally hrmming thoughtfully i brought it to the DSA meetings and keep exclaiming “wow he sucks!! he sucks so bad!!! wow this guy is the worst” at the top of my lungs as I read it
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Dec 27, 2019 08:17
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apropos to nothing posted:well, I’m a Bolshevik right now and I would like to not be murdered or imprisoned after a revolution by other Bolsheviks. that whole post is lmao but this made me hoot
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Dec 27, 2019 09:24
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Ardennes posted:The concept of a highly centralized state (i.e Leninism) may be a slight difference between the two... What I meant is that a theoretical ancom society would fit perfectly into the Marxist definition of a state since it would repress the capital class in favor of the working class. The anarchist definition of a state is more vauge, but usually means a society of top down power. Hilariously, these differences end up with them arguing with each other while also talking about two different things. Side note. I feel stupid, but I just realized I don't know what it means for a state to be centralized. Someone help me out here. BrokenGameboy has issued a correction as of 11:03 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 09:33
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it just means you're investing more authority in one power than several. think feudal states with a weak ruling dynasty corralling lords of various degrees of autonomy, loyalty and inbreeding versus a strong imperial seat delegating it out through governors and other various officials or bureaucrats who answer directly to the crown. in a leftist paradigm this might be a central committee who plans the economy top-down versus less formally affiliated local councils coordinating their member workers' efforts independently
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Dec 27, 2019 10:21
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Would this explanation of council democracy count as centralized then? Since there's a top council that's determined from the lower councils. https://youtu.be/byqOHE-37og
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Dec 27, 2019 10:28
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BrokenGameboy posted:Side note. I feel stupid, but I just realized I don't know what it means for a state to be centralized. Someone help me out here. On the positive side of things, a central authority is useful for subjects that are national (or international) in character. You don't want something like the CDC to exist only at the state (or county) level, asking random local doctors their opinions on extremely rare diseases, you want highly talented people working together dealing with issues and seeing the big picture before an epidemic becomes one. A central state also has the advantage of being able to step in when a local authority starts mistreating segments of its population. I mean, when the central state isn't all for it in the first place.
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Dec 27, 2019 10:54
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greetings. incredibly educated and smart leftist here. somehow i read 50 theory books without picking up on 'hierarchy' not meaning literally any kind of hierarchy at all and instead meaning bougioise or aristocratic plutocracies. anyway im a [shakes closed bag and pulls a slip out] anarchist trotsky sympathizer dual classed with Maoist somehow
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Dec 27, 2019 10:56
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I'm the leftist who didn't do any reading until way later in life so I just hang around going "hell yeah" or faving memes hoping no one asks me if I know what words like stakhanovite mean
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Dec 27, 2019 12:16
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Honest Thief posted:I'm the leftist who didn't do any reading until way later in life so I just hang around going "hell yeah" or faving memes hoping no one asks me if I know what words like stakhanovite mean
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Dec 27, 2019 16:04
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im a stakhanovite
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Dec 27, 2019 17:23
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Call Your Grandma posted:im a stakhanovite
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Dec 27, 2019 17:51
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what are the best books on organizing tactics. nuts and bolts stuff about how to get a union going on the local level
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Dec 27, 2019 20:33
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Clipperton posted:what are the best books on organizing tactics. nuts and bolts stuff about how to get a union going on the local level Alinsky Rules for Radicals and McAlevey's No Shortcuts (arguably McAlevey is more relevant because it's contemporary)
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Dec 27, 2019 21:50
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Gunshow Poophole posted:Alinsky Rules for Radicals and McAlevey's No Shortcuts (arguably McAlevey is more relevant because it's contemporary) cheers! i actually have "raising expectations and raising hell" on my reading list, i'll bump it for no shortcuts
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Dec 27, 2019 22:13
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no shortcuts is critical for identifying do nothing libs
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Dec 27, 2019 22:20
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Clipperton posted:what are the best books on organizing tactics. nuts and bolts stuff about how to get a union going on the local level i tried to make a thread about nuts and bolts organizing but it didn’t take off  PM me if you want help
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Dec 27, 2019 22:35
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Honest Thief posted:I'm the leftist who didn't do any reading until way later in life so I just hang around going "hell yeah" or faving memes hoping no one asks me if I know what words like stakhanovite mean lol
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Dec 28, 2019 00:58
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Autism Sneaks posted:that whole post is lmao but this made me hoot i mean, if youre not looking to the bolsheviks as a blueprint for how to organize a revolutionary party then i dont really know what youre doing. just like the bolsheviks identified as jacobins in their day because they followed the model laid down by the revolutionaries who had succeeded before them
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Dec 28, 2019 02:19
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The kind that uses the Hatch Act to justify doing nothing beyond donations which are also technically against the terms of my employment so I'm actually a hero.
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Dec 28, 2019 02:43
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Having a Bernie sticker in a drawer of my bedroom is a fire able offense and lord help me if I try to buy tickets for a BBQ.
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Dec 28, 2019 02:46
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apropos to nothing posted:i mean, if youre not looking to the bolsheviks as a blueprint for how to organize a revolutionary party then i dont really know what youre doing. just like the bolsheviks identified as jacobins in their day because they followed the model laid down by the revolutionaries who had succeeded before them any actual understanding of how the Bolsheviks thought would teach you that there is no blueprint
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Dec 28, 2019 08:58
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i never feel more leftist than when im hammered and listening to springsteen
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Dec 28, 2019 11:34
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HorseLord posted:any actual understanding of how the Bolsheviks thought would teach you that there is no blueprint lol yeah i mean actually there is for some basic things like making contacts with people, writing and distributing literature, holding meetings, etc.
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Dec 28, 2019 15:28
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lenin also saw the need for strict collective responsibility, outward agreement to the central line, the need for robust internal discussion and complete political ruthlessness including a willingness to lie and oversimplify when necessary. we all long for a slogan like 'bread and peace'. a lot of leninists today are basically cultists, though, and like nothing more than to write thousands of words of esoteric jargon which one must fully comprehend lest one be condemned as a liberal or something. the same set tries to boycott elections etc and are also internally hugely dogmatic. it's a land of contrasts, to be sure V. Illych L. has issued a correction as of 15:43 on Dec 28, 2019 |
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Dec 28, 2019 15:40
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i always just call myself "a Marxist", because the only concepts and critiques I have a full grasp of + faith in as correct are the groundworks Marx laid down in his critique of capital and other economic philosophies. my other favorite left thinkers are Sankara, Rousseau, Fanon, Angela Davis, Lenin, Mao, etc. i admire many things about Lenin's revolution and Mao's revolution and think there's tons of great things to learn from both, but I'd never really call myself a Leninist or a Maoist my biggest concerns are stopping imperialism, white supremacy/anti racism, decolonization, prison abolition, the abolition of private property, wage labor, dismantling patriarchy, the gender binary, nationalism, etc, and obviously at this juncture, addressing climate change in a sane but effective manner that preserves our species and as many other species as possible big broad concepts that help build strong wide platforms for people to engage in direct action on and come together to share their common struggles while viciously stomping out any spooky liberal ideology and especially reactionary rhetoric, give material aide to each other, and be ready for what comes next solidarity, solidarity, solidarity mother fuckers
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Dec 28, 2019 16:41
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BrokenGameboy posted:Would this explanation of council democracy count as centralized then? Since there's a top council that's determined from the lower councils. This was the framework of the USSR government and it was considered a highly centralized state so, yeah
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Dec 28, 2019 21:04
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yeah I just call myself a commie and leave it up to the viewer to decide what, exactly, I mean by that also the terms centralized/decentralized as far as government structure goes is pretty meaningless. the united states is considered highly centralized but we're a federation, which is basically a step above feudalism when it comes to distributed power. among leftists the term seems to frequently just become a synonym for good or bad and isnt actually used descriptively. Larry Parrish has issued a correction as of 10:08 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 10:06
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The us government is considered centralized?
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Dec 30, 2019 07:45
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apropos to nothing posted:don’t worry about what kind of whatever you are, find the people who are doing the work of organizing and join them and do the work and you’re whatever that is.
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Dec 30, 2019 15:48
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how you do that though? finding people doing work I went to a couple of meetings for some groups at a suggestion by friends but they kinda blew, one was for a ER group and it was really bad
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Dec 30, 2019 16:28
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Honest Thief posted:how you do that though? finding people doing work Go to actions/protests/etc and talk to people. After going to a few events you'll see which groups are most active and organized.
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Dec 30, 2019 17:04
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I don't really know or care to put a label on what I am. My goals, and the goals of the american left in general, should be to build class conciousness and working class power. We might not be able to agree on the utopian society that exists in our heads, but I think most leftists can agree on practical steps like "empower unions" or "destroy the bourgeoisie as a political force"
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Dec 30, 2019 19:29
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Honest Thief posted:how you do that though? finding people doing work where are you at? don’t have to say if you don’t want or could give a huge area. the reality is though joining an org or party should be a way to make yourself better at being an organizer. I didn’t live in Seattle when I joined socialist alternative but heard about them through what they did in Seattle back in like 2013. people from all around the country helped me learn how to be an organizer where I live. if you live in Boise Idaho but theres an organization where the closest presence is in in San Diego but there’s people that are willing to talk to you once every week or two over the phone and give you resources to be more involved and active in class struggle then the distance doesn’t matter. ultimately you will need to organize with people physically close to you but sometimes learning from people very far away is how you begin to do it with people close to you, especially if you’re in a place where there isn’t any socialist organization present or doing anything or where there’s little to no active union presence
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Dec 30, 2019 21:26
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Honest Thief posted:how you do that though? finding people doing work read rules for radicals and no shortcuts then watch that german show we are the wave and do everything that blonde kid does
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Dec 31, 2019 08:51
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lol I remember having to watch the movie about that in school as an explanation of how fascism works. but even as a dumbass teen it was obvious that actually you cant get that many people to follow you entirely based on weird court ritual and social pressure. anyway what I'm saying is the wave is some lib brained poo poo but maybe the german TV show is better
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Dec 31, 2019 10:26
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tylersayten posted:The us government is considered centralized? State and municipal governmental entities have a degree of autonomy, but it's only to maintain an internal reactionary bulwark. "State's rights" only exists as means to counter any vaguely leftist policy pursued by the federal government.
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Dec 31, 2019 10:53
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MizPiz posted:State and municipal governmental entities have a degree of autonomy, but it's only to maintain an internal reactionary bulwark. "State's rights" only exists as means to counter any vaguely leftist policy pursued by the federal government.
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Dec 31, 2019 12:48
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it's pretty explicitly why we have a federation. i mean even after the constitution went into effect, theres pretty much never been any states rights legal arguments that havent been used for reactionary insanity
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Dec 31, 2019 12:51
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apropos to nothing posted:where are you at? don’t have to say if you don’t want or could give a huge area. the reality is though joining an org or party should be a way to make yourself better at being an organizer. I didn’t live in Seattle when I joined socialist alternative but heard about them through what they did in Seattle back in like 2013. people from all around the country helped me learn how to be an organizer where I live. This is good advice, but I'm in Europe, Lisbon to be more precise, but it's still useful. My biggest hurdle though was overcoming the stigma of being seen (? lack of a better word) there's a lot of cultural heritage to not make big waves, even today, because of our late dictatorship. People just have the habit of keeping to themselves and not get involved.
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Dec 31, 2019 15:09
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