- predicto
- Jul 22, 2004
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THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON
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I guess I don't understand why people are not more high on Wiseman. He was the consensus top prospect coming into college, and while he only played three games in college, he absolutely owned people in those games on a per minute basis. He is a legit 7-1 with a 7-6 wingspan, very fast and athletic for his size, with a big frame that can fill out. He is only 19 years old and seems to have a huge upside.
He doesn't have much of a post up game but who cares, post up are bad offense in 2020. From day one he would be an effective screen setter, rim runner, offensive rebounder and lob finisher. His shooting form looks good for a big, and I don't see why people assume he wont be able to develop a reliable outside shot. He has at least some ability to handle the ball. And he has the potential to be really good defensively, blocking shots and defending the paint right away and presumably improving with experience. He doesn't look to have slow feet or bad instincts on defense (although like every young big man he is going to get destroyed on switches at first). I guess his passing and ability to read defenses needs improvement, but again, he's only 19.
I see a lot of vague criticism of Wiseman's "leadership" and "intangibles" but I can't find any specifics about where that is coming from. He's just out of high school and he never got in any trouble, and his teams won all the time.
I'm wondering what I am missing. This is a weak draft. The top pick, Anthony Edwards, shot 40% from the field and 29% from 3 on a bad team in a weak SEC. Cole Anthony did the same thing in a tougher league, but still - those are not good numbers. Lamelo Ball can't shoot at all and plays no defense. Deni Avidja scored 10 points per game in a low tier euro league and Killian Hayes wasn't much better. They ain't gonna be the next Luka Doncic. Okongwu and Toppin are going to be solid pros, but probably nothing more. Halliburton looks good but not fantastic, and is physically weak. There are no sure bets in this draft.
I know the center position is devalued in today's game, but it seems crazy to me that Wiseman isn't vying with Edwards for the top choice.
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Aug 30, 2020 08:14
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May 17, 2024 22:28
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- predicto
- Jul 22, 2004
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THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON
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Gonna bullet point this because I am lazy and sleep deprived:
- most of the people who don't like him very much have watched him going back to high school and also disagreed about being the number one prospect coming out of high school. Also "number one high school prospect" is not actually as predictive as you'd think. The list of number 1 RSCI players is littered with guys like Josh Jackson, Jahlil Okafor, Shabazz Muhammad, and OJ Mayo who had nothing NBA careers. The two most recent ones are RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley, neither of whom looks particularly great yet either. Recruiting services are trying to project college production, not NBA.
-3 games is a tiny sample, and two of them were against teams ranked in the 300s on KenPom. Beating up on those guys just proves that you are a high major caliber player. The game against Oregon was fine but hardly dominant. He struggled a lot on defense and didn't overpower the tiny Oregon front court the way you'd want a 7 footer who is supposed to be the best prospect in the world to. You need to look at lower levels and his EYBL numbers are good but hardly dominant.
-no one disputes that he is very large and looks good running the court but I do think there are athletic limitations. He doesn't looks that quick laterally and he has a very long load time on his jump that limits his defensive potential a bit. Compare how quick he is off the ground to someone like Okongwu. I think you're also very wrong about his defensive instincts, they look pretty bad to me. He also needs to get stronger because so far in his career he gets pushed around pretty easily. He's young so he easily could, but it's just one more question mark.
-no one who doesn't like him gives a poo poo that he can't post up. I think most people think he can be a fine rim runner and lob threat (though possibly not an elite one because of the load time issue I mentioned above), but do you need to spend a top 5 pick to get one of those?
-his shot shows some promise but it's still very much theoretical. He had a tendency to take really dumb jumpers at lower levels so it could easily be a Embiid case where it gets just good enough that it hurts him because he tries too many contested jump shots and doesn't make them a great rate.
-i haven't seen anyone be critical of his intangibles. Maybe someone is mad about him getting paid in college high school? I don't give a poo poo about that and no one who I trust that is down on him does either. People are critical of him strictly as a basketball player.
-the position thing matters! Good centers are available for trade or on the scrape heap all the time because it's hard to play them in the playoffs. Unless you're KAT you have to be absurdly good on defense to be worth a heavy investment like a top 5 pick as a center. He looks like he could be an okay defender but probably not great one. This is why I actually dispute the huge upside thing. I think his most likely outcome is solidly above average starting center, but I don't think he's going to be a star. Think someone like Whiteside or Drummond, both guys who teams basically gave away. Edwards, who I don't particularly like but have much higher, theoretically fills a much more valuable and difficult to fill role as a primary perimeter creator.
Anyway all of this is just people on the internet talking mostly, everyone who talks to NBA teams has him as like Top 3 and the only reason no one talks about him as the top pick now is because a team with a good center got the pick. He's almost certainly going like top 5 in the actual draft, the debate is just whether or not he will be worth it.
Ok that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. And thanks to you too Declan
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Aug 30, 2020 18:05
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- predicto
- Jul 22, 2004
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THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON
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Think this is the last one of these I'm gonna do
1. Killian Hayes
2. Onyeka Okongwu
3. LaMelo Ball
4. Aleksei Pokusevki
5. Devin Vassell
6. Kira Lewis
7. Anthony Edwards
8. Cole Anthony
9. Tyrese Maxey
10. Issac Okoro
11. Patrick Williams
12. Obi Toppin
13. Tyrese Haliburton
14. Desmond Bane
15. Deni Avidija
16. Tyrell Terry
17. Grant Riller
18. James Wiseman
I respect the hell out of your knowledge, but Wiseman in Tier 4 is ... wow.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:46
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Aug 30, 2020 08:14
