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Tifa
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Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





Hair Elf

kaworu posted:

I'm hoping that FF7R does some more interesting things with Cloud's character - they sorta have to - because I felt like they kinda failed to develop what kind of person Cloud was after his memories returned and his personality came back together. We don't really get many scenes (or any, really) that exhibit any sort of meaningful change in him, it felt like. So I am sort of expecting FF7R to do a better job of this, for better or worse.

I think Cloud had a lot of character growth in FFVIIR.

He went from a gruff, stoic tough-guy caricature touched by nothing to the socially awkward, passionate member of a family-by-choice by the end.

As far as his re-integration of his original self, none of the events that precipitate that have occurred yet. So none of major changes he underwent in the original would make a lick of sense if they happened in Midgar.

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kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



Oh, I know, but what I mean is I hope they do a better job of establishing parameters about who he is, and the ways in which he might change. I think they seem to be doing a great job of this so far - I think my favorite moment (from the last hour of playing) might be Cloud's disappointment when he tries to high-five Aerith and she's not paying attention and misses it, after she tried to high-five him and was disappointed when he blew her off. Little, subtle things - sidelong glances and downcast eyes and tiny reactions like that are just packed full of meaning in these games. It's funny, because the FMVs were like little silent films in Final Fantasy games in the PSX days - never any recorded dialogue, so body language and imagery would tell the story. Being built on that sort of style always helped FF games in my opinion..

Um, and I'm not saying that FFVII didn't develop Cloud's character at all. There certainly is development and change. I just mean that I hope they dig a little bit deeper, because there's actually a lot about who Cloud was that went mostly unmentioned and unexplored in the original, or was mostly just implied. It's fertile ground, is all I really mean.

kaworu fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 21, 2020

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

A lot of Clouds growth was when you go to Nibelheim and do that whole section. We got way more in the remake than they did in midgar originally and I think itís just giving themselves a bit of room to dump huge exposition scenes on the player and not have to explain the headaches and visions and Zach and all of it in one big cutscene. I can see all of the choices made in this game as building to the narrative in the rest of it that is supposed to be open world I just canít see how they pull it off. If they keep it as neatly on rails as the first part it will work much better that giving people a huge world to run around in which in the original only serves to be a random battle area. There was nothing served story wise by letting the highwind go anywhere. Choosing a fast travel option between nodes would serve it just as well imo.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

Cloud and Barret keep their iconic starter weapons but I like to use the Sonic Strikers on Tifa, they look really stylish.

Aerith... who cares, she just has various flavors of Stick. Which, outside of battle, she keeps... somewhere. Guess it would look weird to have a staff attached to her back while wandering around.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006



Sapozhnik posted:

Cloud and Barret keep their iconic starter weapons but I like to use the Sonic Strikers on Tifa, they look really stylish.

Aerith... who cares, she just has various flavors of Stick. Which, outside of battle, she keeps... somewhere. Guess it would look weird to have a staff attached to her back while wandering around.

I kept thinking it would have been cool for her staff to be one of those trick staves that pop out and extend to full size.

Moola fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jun 21, 2020

Dell_Zincht
Nov 5, 2003

lEt'S mOsEy





kaworu posted:

holy poo poo they spent ~$100 million on marketing this game in America... Wow. What a freaking genius and bold move, whomever worked for Sony and managed to pull that off, spending $100 million to market FFVII as the killer app for the Playstation when it first came out. I mean that is a LOT of money nobody spends half that much marketing even the most massive games anymore, even adjusting for inflation...,

The most hilarious thing is one of the trailers completely spoils one of the biggest moments in the game. You know which one.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

yeah, I can't believe they spoiled doom house

bubbapook
Jan 14, 2008



Iím finally getting to the end of this (Chapter 17) and despite how much I really wanted to love the game, it feels like all of the great little moments have ultimately been overshadowed by two areas that just really acutely affected my experience:

1) the level of padding just feels off the charts. I donít mean in the broader sense because I really liked some of the deeper dives they did on some characters and areas - but I mean in the moment to moment areas where itís so completely obvious that the design mandate was ďmake this take longer than it needs toĒ. By no means unique to this game, but it feels so consistent through the games DNA that I just felt like I was being taken for a ride a lot of the time.

2) the ďbullshitĒ moments in the combat. Things like the goddamn interrupts. Things like spells hitting scenery geometry. Things like getting stuck in perpetual heal/revive holes. Let me be clear - nearly everything is doable second/third time round if youíre paying attention. But the flaw for me is the level of frustration and ďgently caress that poo pooĒ that occurs when you experience these things, theyíre like little cuts and bruises that add up over the course of the game.

I so hope that they adjust some of these areas for the next parts because there is some absolutely brilliant work here, I just feel like my two biggest takeaways from the entire game are the ones above.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006



Spells and pretty much every ranged attack hitting geometry is cool because you can use it to avoid enemy attacks

One time an enemy spell hit a stop sign instead of hitting me and I laughed

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013



Anytime you get into the perpetual heal cycle just restart the fight. It's never worth continuing and it's the kind of situation that can be totally avoided just by playing a little better in round 2.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008






Interrupts aren't bullshit imo, they're punishment for poorly timed casts.

Marmaduke!
May 19, 2009

Why would it do that!?

It sometimes happens to me right at the end of the fight so at that point I just power through and accept that everyone else is gonna be on 1 hp. Does materia still get the AP if the owner is dead?

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005



Magic is absolutely busted with how much it can increase the stagger gauge and get enemies into Pressured state - the reason you have to charge for seconds to get off a thundaga is because that thundaga is pressuring some of the toughest enemies in the game and leading to a stagger and loads of damage

It helps to look at some no-damage combat videos - not because you should aim for no damage but because it can highlight how quickly you can actually destroy enemies

Moola
Aug 16, 2006



The only time I got stuck on a heal res cycle was fighting some of the tougher VR bosses tbh

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

Moola posted:

The only time I got stuck on a heal res cycle was fighting some of the tougher VR bosses tbh

Cool

bubbapook
Jan 14, 2008



THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

It helps to look at some no-damage combat videos - not because you should aim for no damage but because it can highlight how quickly you can actually destroy enemies

Good tip, will check some out. Iíve tried to play through while avoiding watching too many guides which probably means Iím completely unaware of some far more effective tactics.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


https://twitter.com/SunhiLegend/sta...875475375071232

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

In my day, we crossed burning sand every day -- and liked it!


At first I thought she was beating up Red XIII.

Ace Transmuter
May 19, 2017

I like video games

Chi Trap is loving busted and carried me through Hard Mode more than Counterstance did, honestly.

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003




I'm curious how they had 3 ATB bars and a Limit Break ready to go at the same time in that fight. Gotterdammerung and Refocus would let you grab 3 bars right off the bat, but I don't see how having another limit built up would be possible in the span of that fight. Also, was anyone able to see which spell was used there towards the beginning?

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW

SlimGoodbody posted:

I'm curious how they had 3 ATB bars and a Limit Break ready to go at the same time in that fight. Gotterdammerung and Refocus would let you grab 3 bars right off the bat, but I don't see how having another limit built up would be possible in the span of that fight. Also, was anyone able to see which spell was used there towards the beginning?

Aero is the spell, there's an item that will make damage dealt charge the limit meter, and I'm willing to bet that this was not the first enemy in that fight sequence.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006




this game owns so hard

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003



Moola posted:

this game owns so hard

I would love DLC with more VR solo fights. Maybe even a "build your own combat sim roster" where you can pick from all the enemies from the game.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008






Moola posted:

this game owns so hard

I love how all the characters felt distinct and fun to control, and the combat system actually incentivised a lot of switching unlike when I played Tales of Berseria and I just played as Velvet the whole time.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



SirSamVimes posted:

I love how all the characters felt distinct and fun to control, and the combat system actually incentivised a lot of switching unlike when I played Tales of Berseria and I just played as Velvet the whole time.

Yeah they did a fantastic job of making all the characters distinctive and fun. It probably helps there are only four characters total but still.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


Moola posted:

this game owns so hard

By end of 7R every character can do stuff that makes original 7's level 4 limit breaks look like chump auto-attacks, how much higher can they go in the sequels

Adus
Nov 4, 2009

heck


SirSamVimes posted:

I love how all the characters felt distinct and fun to control, and the combat system actually incentivised a lot of switching unlike when I played Tales of Berseria and I just played as Velvet the whole time.

it would have been cool to have an option for a Tales battle system where i COULD control who i wanted while the rest of my party still had some autonomy. i played Berseria after this and gameplay-wise i had more fun with that. but i think i am worse at games than i used to be.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

By end of 7R every character can do stuff that makes original 7's level 4 limit breaks look like chump auto-attacks, how much higher can they go in the sequels

this is one of the things that concerns me. they went so hard on this one that upping the ante is going to be difficult without becoming completely absurd. but who knows maybe it'll be a good absurd.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.



Dinosaur Gum

So when Cloud does punisher mode attacks and finishes the combo, is that the heavy attack? Sometimes he glows red, is that the berserk status? Also, that Tifa video is crazy, and I tried chi trap a few times in one or two fights and it hit enemies like 2-3 times and they then went elsewhere. In that video the enemy stays in the trap. Did I just pick the worst enemies to use it on or something? Also, why is Tifa dodging in that video sometimes, for no reason?

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

can we talk about how despite there being a decent chunk of brand new excellent music tracks on the OST, the best one by far is a throwaway propaganda song about a little army dog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_MyhQdwd1E&hd=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLbmVu-3fHU&hd=1

I also didn't realize everyone in your party dances to the music if you stand still long enough near a jukebox.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

By end of 7R every character can do stuff that makes original 7's level 4 limit breaks look like chump auto-attacks, how much higher can they go in the sequels
well, tifa's final limit break could be something like

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008






Still love Barret's little bit about how Stamp is a good boy who has been co-opted for propaganda purposes.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Nap Ghost

SirSamVimes posted:

Still love Barret's little bit about how Stamp is a good boy who has been co-opted for propaganda purposes.



Defund the paw patrol

I'll also agree with everyone in enjoying how they made each character feel distinct. I also like how Tifa is there for players who enjoy a higher skill ceiling/higher reward style of play, while they kept Cloud as a more vanilla easy mode kind of style. It's good to have choices

DrakePegasus
Jan 30, 2009

It was Plundersaurus Rex's dream to be the greatest pirate dragon ever.


The CD remixes arenít on the official soundtrack, including Stamp

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003



redreader posted:

So when Cloud does punisher mode attacks and finishes the combo, is that the heavy attack? Sometimes he glows red, is that the berserk status? Also, that Tifa video is crazy, and I tried chi trap a few times in one or two fights and it hit enemies like 2-3 times and they then went elsewhere. In that video the enemy stays in the trap. Did I just pick the worst enemies to use it on or something? Also, why is Tifa dodging in that video sometimes, for no reason?

I think heavy attack is what happens when you hold attack in Operator mode.

Red glow is Berserk, which he sets from holding attack in Punisher mode.

It looked to me like Tifa did an attack that knocked the opponent into the air and did a Chi Trap underneath it before it landed, causing it to bounce on it in a continual juggle.

Tifa is using both the Deadly Dodge and Parry materia. She might be using them for animation canceling purposes, repositioning purposes, or in the case of Deadly Dodge, because dodging allows her to combo into a fantastic spinning kick attack.

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005



SlimGoodbody posted:

I think heavy attack is what happens when you hold attack in Operator mode.

Red glow is Berserk, which he sets from holding attack in Punisher mode.

It looked to me like Tifa did an attack that knocked the opponent into the air and did a Chi Trap underneath it before it landed, causing it to bounce on it in a continual juggle.

Tifa is using both the Deadly Dodge and Parry materia. She might be using them for animation canceling purposes, repositioning purposes, or in the case of Deadly Dodge, because dodging allows her to combo into a fantastic spinning kick attack.

A lot of top-level Tifa players (Awesome that this is a thing honestly) Use Deadly Dodge and Parry - she has some combos that can only be done if you're using those including I believe her crazy infinite ATB loops that spam ATB and then get it back fast enough to basically never stop using ATB commands

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






I wish Aerith's staffs turned into bracelets when she was done with them.

They're magic/Mako channeling magic sticks, I'd believe it.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole


Considering how much care was put into the animations and models, I'm really surprised Aerith's staff just kind of disappears into her leg whenever she puts it away. It would have been nice to have her fold it up and attach it to her dress or something.

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!


DrakePegasus posted:

The CD remixes arenít on the official soundtrack, including Stamp

They were included in the limited edition version as the 8th disc.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

https://youtu.be/VkxpcpC9Ox8

Hard mode is fun and fat chocobo rules.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



I am at chapter 13, and just really slowly dragging out the experience of this game, heh. I ration just a couple hours of play-time per day - I don't want it all to just be over in a single night! It's pretty amazing still, though Cloud/Tifa/Barrett are just running back and forth across the slums at this point. I love some of the graffiti in the tunnel - "If time heals all wounds, then I haven't aged a day in years." Gotta remember that one.

I really liked the way they handled the scene with Barret and Elmyra. I was hoping that they would keep things... subtle and understated, and they did, so I was proud of them for doing that. What always made that scene powerful to me was something that goes unstated - Elmyra tells them the story about how she adopted Aerith, and why she loves Aerith as if she were her own daughter, despite not being biologically related. She has this flashback at the same moment when Barret and Marlene's relationship as father and daughter takes the center emotional stage, and what goes unstated is that Marlene is of course not Barret's biological daughter, either - even though they do not explore this at all, at the time. In fact, you see Barret about to blurt something out right after Elmyra comes clean about Aerith but he stops himself.

I just love that they actually trust the audience to pick up on this stuff on their own, and they don't feel the need to take this moment apart and milk it for everything its worse. It was subtle and powerful in the original, and they kept it that way, so I'm pleased about that.

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a kitten
Aug 5, 2006



Fallen Rib

This is definitely canon

https://twitter.com/nunubirdie/stat...8601635841?s=09

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