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Lessail posted:That sounds a lot like what you do in rpgs At least other MMORPGs mix things up in the quests and/or have areas to explore while doing them. FFXIV does not. It is literally the same three quests over and over with different text in bland environments. In fact, the environments get worse after ARR because of flying.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:19
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Harrow posted:I am very excited for Tim Rogers's eventual hour-long video review of this. Dude's a massive FF7 fan and has a series where he plays through the original game in Japanese and sorta re-translates it and talks about differences and themes and stuff. He's also the kind of guy who is very much on board for Grand Artistic Choices so I can't wait to see what he has to say. I'm looking forward to the Tim review equally as much as I'm looking forward to playing it 
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Apr 6, 2020 20:20
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So many reviews I am seeing are calling the game "padded" and "bloated" I wonder what these people want. Do they want it to be a 10-hour long game so they can call it too short?
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Apr 6, 2020 20:25
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BabyRyoga posted:So many reviews I am seeing are calling the game "padded" and "bloated" Eh, for the moment (first 15 hours), every slum you visit (the same ones as in the original) has about 6 short side quests. Only 2 of those were a bit interesting, the rest fetch quests in town or just monster killing, but no cool story. You don't have to do them, but they do give you some rewards. The main story expansion has been pretty interesting, concerning both story and locations. Some elements of the main story worry me a bit, but we'll see how it goes.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:31
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BabyRyoga posted:So many reviews I am seeing are calling the game "padded" and "bloated" If a game is 35 hours but the main story is 10 hours long, and the rest of the game is repetitive "kill 5 pigs" side quests (not proper side quests like in Witcher 3), then it's padded. That doesn't mean the game is bad. It just didn't need to be three or more loving games. e: People who say it's unrealistic to do all of FFVII well in one game have really low standards. Dirt low.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:50
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I think it's more that they added a lot of things like navigational puzzles that slow things down and take a lot of time. The padding the reviews talk about isn't the side quests--it's that some parts of the original game that were previously quick trips now have more fighting, walking, and puzzles/minigames added in that make them take longer. SkillUp, in his review, said he figures the game's about 30ish hours long without side quests. He did all but one side quest and finished in about 35 hours. stev posted:e: People who say it's unrealistic to do all of FFVII well in one game have really low standards. Dirt low. I think you could, but I think there'd be a lot of cuts and it'd still be a really long game (just by virtue of voiced cinematic cutscenes taking a lot longer to play out than the original game's unvoiced text boxes). That might be for the better, depending on who you ask, but for example I doubt there'd be room for much exploration or any type of "okay now you can freely explore for a while before your next objective" stuff if they did it in a single game. It'd be a lot like FFX or FFXIII, I guess, and I think that would piss off a lot of the same people who don't like that it's multiple games now. Harrow fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 21:03
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Question about the combat, somebody has probably asked already. Played the demo, the thing where your party member's ATB bar goes up really really slow unless you switch to them and spam attack for a bit. So you can't have them heal you or whatnot usually unless you switch to them and mash attack for five seconds or so. And also in general this suggests it's balanced around switching between characters a lot, like every 30 seconds. Since you'd always want the bar to go up faster. Is that how it seems? Also, do you get any AI tuning menu options, like have them heal more or heal you automatically etc? And one other question, you should be dodge rolling all the time like the Witcher? Not that that's a bad thing, just checking. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 21:06
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Heavy Metal posted:And one other question, you should be dodge rolling all the time like the Witcher? Not that that's a bad thing, just checking. I can answer this one from just the demo: The dodge roll doesn't have any i-frames, so it's just a mobility tool. Use it to move out of the way faster than your normal movement, but you can't dodge through attacks with it. My guess is blocking will be more important for reducing damage than dodge-rolling.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:07
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Harrow posted:I can answer this one from just the demo: Interesting, thanks. So I wonder if several gun guys are shooting at you, rolling around isn't the answer? Not less likely to get hit or anything? From the demo it seemed like it might help, but it just feels like the thing to do based on other games.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:14
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Heavy Metal posted:Interesting, thanks. So I wonder if several gun guys are shooting at you, rolling around isn't the answer? Not less likely to get hit or anything? From the demo it seemed like it might help, but it just feels like the thing to do based on other games. Not too sure--it's possible it reduces their accuracy/makes fewer bullets hit you? My general tactic was to kill ranged enemies first because they tended to be more fragile, and try to block big attacks I couldn't dodge (like the missile barrage from the Scorpion Sentinel boss in the demo). Blocking reduces damage by a lot so I think using it regularly will be important to avoid getting nuked down.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:23
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It's definitely *possible* to do a full remake in a single streamlined + highly polished package, but not by Square Enix, barring some insanely drastic changes in how they approach development.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:31
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I think the challenge for the developers is to punch up the rest of the game after Midgar more than anything else. There's some great locales and moments in the rest of the game but everyone remembers Midgar well, the rest, bits and pieces. At least for me. This is all without me having played the game yet of course so who knows.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:36
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If you're being aimed at by a bunch of gun guys definitely block, the damage they do is miniscule(at least in the demo), and blocking damage increases your atb bar.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:40
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I wonder how they'll handle in a realistic manner the scene where Dyne just repeatedly unloads his gun into Barret's chest and Barret barely flinches.
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Apr 6, 2020 21:53
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GoGoGadget posted:I wonder how they'll handle in a realistic manner the scene where Dyne just repeatedly unloads his gun into Barret's chest and Barret barely flinches. That one is gonna have to change or it's gonna be real uncomfortable with realistic graphics
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Apr 6, 2020 22:01
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GoGoGadget posted:I wonder how they'll handle in a realistic manner the scene where Dyne just repeatedly unloads his gun into Barret's chest and Barret barely flinches. Wasn’t he just shooting at Barrett’s feet or am I misremembering something about the junkyard scene?
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Apr 6, 2020 22:03
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Or the scene post temple of the ancients with Aeris and Cloud. Or the temple closing with Cait Smith still inside, that’ll be funny to see in HDR
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Apr 6, 2020 22:04
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new kind of cat posted:Wasn’t he just shooting at Barrett’s feet or am I misremembering something about the junkyard scene? Yeah I thought he was unloading around Barret's feet
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Apr 6, 2020 22:06
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Yeah he's just shooting around his feet. Also I'm pretty curious to see how many games they break this into and where they end them. I'm guessing they aren't gonna want to go higher than 3 games, and I guess the next logical climax story-wise is the end of the Cetra temple, but that would make for a drastically longer game. If they're gonna be doing sidequests and stuff throughout it's hard to imagine how they break things up in a way that makes sense length and plot-wise without feeling like a completely different game from the Midgar section.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:15
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I'm still sorta thinking we'll see three parts, with part 1 being Midgar (obviously), part 2 being basically the rest of disc one (possibly with some of the travel cut out--no idea how they'll handle the overworld map or how you get from place to place), and part 3 being roughly analogous to discs two and three. At least that's what makes sense to me from a story pacing perspective. It's also maybe possible to have four parts but there'd need to be a new climax in there somewhere to make for another good break. Maybe a part could end with (original game spoiler, not remake spoiler) Tifa pulling Cloud out of the Lifestream? Related question: are we spoiler tagging things from the original game in here, just in case we have people who haven't played it before? I did it there just to be safe but I dunno what we expect people to know already.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:22
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Or the scene post temple of the ancients with Aeris and Cloud. All he does in the original is push her away and punch the ground. His fists don't even touch her.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:23
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Elephant Ambush posted:All he does in the original is push her away and punch the ground. His fists don't even touch her. we just did this argument a few months ago and it was very funny so let's please have it again Cloud beat the poo poo out of her e: what was it before? oh yeah, that guy said he was punching her feet lmao
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Apr 6, 2020 22:25
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Golden Saucer will be its own episode and it will actually be a Yakuza game where Majima cosplays as Cloud.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:30
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stev posted:e: People who say it's unrealistic to do all of FFVII well in one game have really low standards. Dirt low. Ehh, I think they could've done it well in two, but I think the demo nails the first reactor mission and it takes way longer than the original game because it's teaching you the (new, better, more interesting) combat system, the cutscenes are more cinematic/dynamic/animated when people are just talking which is a good and necessary change for the new art style, and stuff like the Guard Scorpion takes longer because - again - the combat system is better and more balanced and you can't just blow through everything in a couple actions. Doing it to proper fidelity like they're doing things means the game needs more room to breathe than the original. But I agree it doesn't need to be what it will most likely become, which is a laborious 5-10 year cycle of sequel installments, DLC, and some amount of new busywork content and bloat that adds very little narratively or mechanically.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:41
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One thing I don't get is the number of people saying it would necessarily be a boring, pointless game if they don't try to mix things up a lot narratively or thematically. I think that's crazy; you can keep all that stuff the same/intact, polish it up a bit, and focus on making the actual gameplay the thing that's new and engaging. Like I'm sure it'll have new boss fights, but if it didn't and every one of them were as different from the original as the Guard Scorpion, it's not like the game wouldn't be a new game or have a ton of new content even if the plot proceeds exactly the same.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:44
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grieving for Gandalf posted:we just did this argument a few months ago and it was very funny so let's please have it again  It's really obvious you're trying to needle me into a meltdown lol grow up. Go watch a video of it.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:47
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It sounds like the filler sidequests don't really add anything to the game, but assuming you just don't do them then the pacing can still be quite good. I can accept it being episodic if it really is an uncompromising vision of what the original game could ideally have been. Midgar in the original was quite limited, and supposedly the remake takes you up onto the plate which you...never actually visited in the original, which I distinctly remember being disappointed by.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:56
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Elephant Ambush posted:
elephant ambush, living proof that the haughtiest ones are always the dumbest
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Apr 6, 2020 23:10
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Elephant Ambush posted:All he does in the original is push her away and punch the ground. His fists don't even touch her. Oh boy this again How dumb are you
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Apr 6, 2020 23:21
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Actually, if you look closely, you'll see that Cloud doesn't even have hands, and therefore could not have punched her.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:27
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Sapozhnik posted:It sounds like the filler sidequests don't really add anything to the game, but assuming you just don't do them then the pacing can still be quite good. I can accept it being episodic if it really is an uncompromising vision of what the original game could ideally have been. Midgar in the original was quite limited, and supposedly the remake takes you up onto the plate which you...never actually visited in the original, which I distinctly remember being disappointed by. The sidequests are pretty meh but there are really not that many of them, so far they've been a pretty low percentage of the game. Plus you can totally just ignore them if you want.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:28
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I don't think they're gonna do Cloud beating the poo poo out of Aeris in the remake but that's absolutely what's happening in that scene
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Apr 6, 2020 23:29
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GoGoGadget posted:At least other MMORPGs mix things up in the quests and/or have areas to explore while doing them. FFXIV does not. It is literally the same three quests over and over with different text in bland environments. In fact, the environments get worse after ARR because of flying. So you're telling me that you didn't refund Atlas within 2- hours of purchasing it AND you think FFXIV is a bad game? Very interesting.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:29
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Dell_Zincht posted:Oh boy this again Don't bother they've tried this very thing in the FF megathread, among other dumber arguments and takes. Got the game preloading now, demo is insanely good and what FFXV's combat should have been. here's hoping they don't just abandon this good and interesting version of ATB like they have every other interesting evolution of it (LR, X-2). Also Remake Jessie should replace Tifa in the full game, IMO. Imagine her and Aerith just clowning on fools.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:30
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BabyRyoga posted:I wonder what these people want. Do they want it to be a 10-hour long game so they can call it too short? If you have 10 hours of game padded to 35 hours then people notice. The stretch between the first and second reactors, which is all I can currently comment on, is full of backstory and cutscenes for characters that don't matter. They're just there to make a bigger gap between story beats and we know this because we already know what's going to happen. It was hilarious that one of the jokingly hyperbolic predictions the thread had for padding sort of played out. Game is still good and worth grabbing when it's available to you without leaving your house.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:44
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Wolfsheim posted:I don't think they're gonna do Cloud beating the poo poo out of Aeris in the remake but that's absolutely what's happening in that scene I think they keep it. It's the perfect illustration of just how hosed up Cloud is by that point. Being horribly uncomfortable is the point of that scene.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:11
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Elephant Ambush posted:
oh no, are you the same guy? I actually didn't realize, I thought you just also had a weird opinion
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Apr 7, 2020 00:19
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CottonWolf posted:I think they keep it. It's the perfect illustration of just how hosed up Cloud is by that point. There’s a pretty significant separation between that kind of scene performed by LEGO people and hd realistic character renders in 4K. Photorealistic cloud beating the poo poo out of photorealistic aerith sorta crosses a line the original didn’t.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:28
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I mean if you take the sound effects at face value aeris would be in a coma. it's going to require some translation one way or another.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:30
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Whatever happened on the original the remake will not have Cloud repeatedly punching her lol. He'll probably shove her and scream/trash around/punch de ground or whatever
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Apr 7, 2020 00:30
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