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PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Julet Esqu posted:



She was a pretty non-character anyway. Only added so Greg could say there was a lesbian in there. But since we never saw her dating or met her girlfriend or anything (it only came up when she was keeping her orientation a secret from Les for grifting purposes) it really didn't matter.

But I guess even one LGBT+ character, even if they never do anything, is one LGBT+ too many for this strip to handle.
Who leaves mid-semester like this? She's already on the hook for the tuition.

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PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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You know, I like Curtis and I like Billingsley.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Green Intern posted:

God I hope this ends with the housemaster getting shitcanned for wasting all this time and money.
I do feel a bit bad for him being traumatically kidnapped as a child, but geez man.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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BigDave posted:

I think what bugs me about Zelda the most is that everyone looks like they're wearing lipstick.

And good to see gay penguins in M again!
I'm p sure some of the hipster dudes are wearing lipstick (and that's okay), it's just that's who Zelda is hanging out with. I don't think her dad had lips like that.

Also Nova is totally crushing on Zelda. Nova, you can do better.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

Yeah, it's an endless and appalling rabbit-hole. I'd be curious to see how other comics with some degree of topicality (like Bloom County or Doonesbury) treated it at the time, since in DtWoF it mostly lingers in the background.
Certainly helps contextualize Mo's constant anger!*

* As in, the problem is never that she's 'too angry' at things, but that she doesn't know how to turn it off.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

No problem, I love that DtWOF gives me an excuse to yammer on about queer history as much as it does!
I feel like I'm learning my own history! I'm in a lot of queer spaces but they skew younger (~30 or younger) so there's a ton of this stuff I'm not as aware of as I feel like I should be.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Zerilan posted:

How much I love Beastars just makes Kevin and Kell all the more unbearable.
Beastars sounds like Feast For A King crossed with Kevin and Kell.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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StrixNebulosa posted:

Overboard has featured wolf concerts for years. Yes, it's ripping it off.
See, I'm unsure if it's ripping it off or two people having the same idea. Overboard is way more established on the gag, though, for sure.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

I think Clarice and Toni are two of the more interesting DtWOF characters but I always thought Clarice is acting like a huge prick in this strip. I suppose if I were to theoretically suggest a right time to cheat on your partner, when they're out of town for their grandma's funeral would not be it. Somebody get Mary Worth on the line, stat.
Oof, yeah, at least Ginger is trying to feel out if Clarice and Toni are exclusive before she makes a move, although I'm also seeing a strong sense of ignoring the red flags in Clarice's response because Ginger wants the answer to be 'no' so much.

Unrelated, but I'm excited for the Heart of the City reboot! I used to like that comic a lot as a kid, but it's been fairly mediocre okay since I've seen it in this thread.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Are we sure Welch and Rick aren't an item?

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Parahexavoctal posted:

I'm drawing a blank on who Welch and Rick are.
The two apartment 3g dudes now. 'let's retire to my farm in ohio together' seems very, uh, homoerotic.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Good Listener posted:

Having not read it before, I'm glad they added the backdrop and mentioned Heart was in middle school. With the char designs, I thought they were all 20 something age characters. I don't mind the designs but newspaper comics have this problem a lot I've noticed.
Yeah I read them as having the proportions and pudginess of middle schoolers, but comics are so stylized that without more familiarity with an artist's style it can be hard to read.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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NRVNQSR posted:

It really feels like this was the moment when John Allison was suddenly told by an editor "BTW, your comic is ending in a week. Figure it out." Except that's obviously not what happened because he was self-published at the time.
Yeah I'm starting to remember why I forgot the end of the Great Unboxing. I see why he took it out of canon.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Mister Olympus posted:

I still don't get it
This is pretty much the end. There's like a week left. The end is that the tunnel gets opened (and all the drama set-up for the unboxing day is offscreen and skipped over) and then Things Change. You can tell he completely ran out of writing steam.

It's a real shame, because I love the Mystery Tweens. The characters are solid, but it seems like this wasn't the story he wanted to tell with them. Maybe someday he'll find the right story for them! I hope so!

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

I used to work primarily with Julliard students c. 2011-2013 and I now completely understand why everyone in 9CL is the way they are.
I also imagine things went downhill once the dude got sexually attracted to Edda, because boy is everything in Modern Chickweed flashing back to kid!Edda uncomfortable.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Mikl posted:

Oh, this hit a bit too close to home :smith:

(In the past on several occasions I was basically the two ladies on the left, making someone feel bad about themselves. I know better now, but it doesn't change the fact that I was a poo poo to some good people.)
It's one of those things where as a fat person who doesn't intend to have kids, I think it's normal and okay to feel weird about such big dramatic changes to your body and to vent and joke about that with friends but part of the issue is being aware of public vs private spaces and who is overhearing. Like in the comic it's clear they haven't even noticed the other woman and aren't intending to make her feel bad, but they should also be a lot more aware of where they are.

(like obviously there's issues with big = ugly, unsexy, pig-like and unintentionally reinforcing that for each other, but it's also okay to talk about feeling ugly and unsexy and to have that linked in part to the physical changes of pregnancy. Just, you know.)

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

Dykes to Watch Out For #51 (1989)

We'll see a few more poets in the 90s but I don't think this character ever comes back or gets a name.
LMAO there are definitely two people tangoing here.

We know Lois doesn't approve of out-and-out cheating, so I'm wondering if the implication is that her lust is overwhelming that or if she doesn't consider it cheating if she's a lesbian still married to a man or what?

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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How Wonderful! posted:

Lois is ok with open relationships and I think in these strips is testing the waters by being flirtatious. The issue with Toni and Clarice for her was that it was totally one-sided-- Toni thought she was in a monogamous relationship and so there was a bond of trust being broken. Although yeah, she's also really horny and not really thinking it through in the moment, which kind of comes to a head at the end of this little arc.
That's what I meant with cheating - the breaking of a bond of trust. Obviously if the husband thinks they're exclusive then that'd be a problem, but nobody's talked about that around Lois yet.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Medenmath posted:

Vintage Valiant (Mar. 12, 1939)


LMAO Claris' response isn't quite what I expected but I love her being like 'holy poo poo I have miscalculated what meatheads these two are'. I hope she and alfred are very happy together.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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I like that Nova and Zelda are now stressed-out angry feminist friends.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Sailor Cat posted:

To be fair, the comic also skips over the horrible things that happen to your body as it starts shutting down, so I can give it a pass on skipping fights and breakdowns, too
To be even more fair, i defnitely wouldn't want to hear about Lisa's terrible graphic digestive issues or whatever, not because it's not important to acknowledge the stuff that happens, but because a newspaper comic isn't really the format for that. I think Batuik actually did a decent job showing her physical degeneration in a tasteful and non-graphic manner, even if the result might seem too clean and sanitized for someone who has actually taken care of a terminally ill loved one.

Ironically the worst part about Lisa's Story is everything after as the comic never ever lets it go. Les' obsession with sharing it and the acclaim given to what is in-universe a pretty clean and sanitized cancer story feels like an unwitting meta-commentary on the comic author chasing the praise he got for the storyline. And instead of getting a story about recovering from grief and loving your late wife but also living your life, we get a story where Les never shuts up about how his wife died of cancer and it was so hard on him and his PoC second-wife only shows up to either get brushed off by him or to praise Lisa.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Julet Esqu posted:

Same. And I would think the deep relationship that she and Willie have would have taken way more than six years to develop.
It's my favorite part of Modesty Blaise lore that she started the Network when she was like, 17, then retired less than a decade later, because god forbid we have a sexy protagonist that's in her 30s. You wouldn't even have to change her design at all!

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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One thing I've noticed in classic Val is that Foster draws people like people, even non-white people. This shouldn't be surprising, but vintage comics have, hmmm... greatly disappointed me. Meanwhile this looks like he actually looked at reference pictures of mongolian people and picked some faces from there instead of going to grotesque caricature.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

sweeperbravo posted:

This is a dumb question, I'm sure.

I've seen this very, very often in media aimed at teens/preteens, where the middle school/high school hierarchy is like *officially* and explicitly set, like a caste system, and students knowingly oblige by it and are hyper aware of their place in the hierarchy and relative "rank" to other cliques.

In my experience, there were absolutely cliques, but they were mostly based on interests and socioeconomic poo poo, I don't think our popular group called themselves "the popular group." It was more like they were just the rich privileged kids whose parents let them drink alcohol. There was definitely bullying, but it wasn't based on your social rank as a label, more just if you looked funny or seemed gay or poor or fat or any other myriad things kids pick on each other for. (For those outside the group anyway; there was definitely a lot of funny looking/gay/fat rich kids). And yeah, I woudln't go sit with "the popular girls," and would have got made fun of for trying, but it was more just because we were like- so clearly different, and also not friends, than anything to do with my social caste level or something.

It all definitely mattered way more in middle school than in high school, as well.

Granted I also had a small-ish class/school (150 in my graduating class and ~600 in the school, extrapolating), so maybe that "need" for stratification wasn't there.

Does the explicit stratification ring true to any of you all or was it something outcasts self-generated as a way to rationalize our exclusion? Like i just don't remember "popular" people actually caring how popular they were. Like, Mean Girls was the only movie I remember feeling actually realistic about the way the clique system worked.

I apologize in advance if this leads toa huge loving derail
Not exactly the stratification, but it existed WITHIN sub-cliques. Heart's a theatre kid, it makes sense she wants to popular to theatre kids, so I'm taking the actor >>>>> techie thing as being something specifically within the theatre kid group at her school. Dana's said to be super popular, but the implication I got wasn't that that's bc she's an actress, exactly, just that she's charismatic and a lot of people like her across the different groups.

I definitely remember lunch table anxiety, though it was more about having a solid friend group than anything else. In middle school I was in an experimental gifted and talented track for the first two years, we were separated from all the mainstream classes so we only knew each other. When I started to get bullied by the other girls I was stuck still trying to sit with them at lunch because there was nobody else, and they were stuck trying to pile bags on the empty seat to try to stop me. It was extremely awkward and tense all around and I started failing all my classes.

I've never been a 'theatre kid' so I have no idea if the techie bias is a thing or not. I was in choir and vaguely remember doing backstage work was considered less prestigious than being on stage, but there were a whole group of kids that did tech work and set building so it's not like there was, like, a single isolated lighting tech. That said, I imagine the new author doesn't want to flood us with characters and is massively simplifying.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Val's first battle he didn't enjoy. Well, enjoy much.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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The best part is, if you look at the last page, if they'd held out for one more night the siege would have melted away, so they valiantly killed themselves for nothing.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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amigolupus posted:

Just like with the poachers, Holbrook doesn't get what adding this means for Hellworld. You gotta love the thought of having people out there willing to pay to have people skinned or have their bones cut off.
Well, the concept of people being hunted for their body parts is... unfortunately not completely unprecedented in reality, it's definitely treated weirdly lightly by Holbrook. At least the food thing can be justified by 'people need to eat'.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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It's also a p lovely timing to have that discussion right when Tove is happy about it, even if Zelda was the right person to make those points (as a straight gal, she ain't).

She strikes me as the kind of person who read a bunch of queer theory when Tove came out and then decided now she's the expert on lesbianism and queer representation, what do you mean it's not her place?

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Call your dad, Zelda

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

The new title is really good, that line immediately stuck out to me. I, too, often feel like a little green onions, but onions are awfully nice.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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There's at least a little bit of villanous queercoding going on with Piscaro's foppishness, sadism, cowardice, and general presentation. Note how he's presented in contrast to Valiant being a 'real man' with perfumes, guards for protection, enjoying hurting people but only brave enough to do it when they're helpless, flowery language and dress.

From our modern point of view Val himself is extremely homoerotic and it's very easy to read him as a bisexual murder hobo, but that was hardly the intention at the time. THESE beautiful youthful warriors wrestling shirtless and complimenting each others beautiful bodies are GOOD and HETEROSEXUAL, while THIS gilded coward complimenting the body of his torture victim is STRANGELY QUEER, HOW SINISTER.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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My Lovely Horse posted:

All those times Valiant and his manly knight friends held their gay celebrations.
I gotta say, I know that's not what Foster meant, but in my heart Val is as bisexual as the day is long.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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StrixNebulosa posted:

:sigh:

Knock Out is still beloved by the fandom though, and the IDW comics have canonically shown him married to his partner and in a loving relationship, so that was nice.
That comic series also went all in on the gay and even trans transformers by the end, which was nice, and I haven't kept current with the new IDW continuity but they start out from a position of having gay characters to start with. Arcee and Greenlight are married or what passes for it, and it's notable they both were in wlw relationships (with other people) in the previous continuity.

It's just nice to have queer characters accepted as a thing that doesn't need to be explained or overly commented on.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Kavak posted:

I don't mean disrespect to anyone but Rae doesn't feel like it has anything going for it besides "Our cast is all LGBT!" There needs to be substance to representation.
IMO it's bc it's still in the introduction phase - hi, my name is Rae, I'm a doe, here's my punk girlfriend, here are my friends, they eat garbage. There's no actual plot yet but it's just trying to establish who everyone is. There are smoother ways to handle the introduction phase - Bad Machinery gives everyone their own page and a look at their family life - but there's gonna be an introduction phase.

Full disclosure, I'm not sold on it yet either, but I'm waiting for things to actually happen to pass judgement.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Julet Esqu posted:



It is seeming more and more probable that the Evans-approved grown-up way to deal with an abuser is to try to be nice and go-along-to-get-along. So gross.

And I understand fully that there are situations where you can't get away from your abuser and the safest thing to do really is to be meek and quiet and play nice with them until you are able to get away. This ain't that. Not at all.
Actually, I'm reading it the opposite way - the Evans suck, but Anne is very clearly meant to suck, and the fact that she's just doubling down after Tiffany decided to give her another chance is a deliberate writing decision they're making. I'm unsure if they realize quite how abusive what they're writing is, but the point seems to be that even when Tiff is trying to 'be the grown up', Anne is going to keep moving the goalposts and trampling her boundaries whenever dear old dad is out of the room.

I could be wrong. I don't have faith in the writing. Anne is gross. But if they were really going to play the 'just get along' card, I'd expect Anne to suddenly and uncharacteristically be tolerable to deal with now that Tiffany has backed down, thus validating that the problem all along was Tiffany. This ain't that.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Medenmath posted:

Vintage Valiant (Jan. 01, 1940)



Foster was doing pretty good there for a while with his depictions of Asian people, but uh, I'm not very pleased with the little stamps in this one. Mr. Lemon Yellow in the top left is particularly bad.
Yeah I was just thinking Foster was surprisingly neutral on race (although not great) until the stamps recently and the whole 'yeah the Huns just want to gently caress these Good Civilized people up' when the problem was the sadistic noble.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Schwarzwald posted:

There've been so many comics about the parents passing the baby off between them that I just assumed they were divorced.
They are.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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curtadams posted:

TBF Attila's Huns (probably no substantial connection to the Hungarians, name and location notwithstanding) were pretty awful. Hopefully we'll see at least somewhat better treatment of other non-European ethnicities.
Yeah I'm not super miffed about that but I'm keeping an eye on Foster now.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

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Gnoman posted:

A Gutenberg Bible is not a specific translation of the Bible, but one actually printed by Gutenberg in the mid-1400s. As only 49 copies are known to exist, this makes it an incredibly rare artifact, akin to having a Stradivarius violin or original Donatello painting just sitting there.



Not that this excuses the "joke", because it is a really crappy punchline to a really stupid storyline, but that would be suspicious.
Isn't it normal for people to use fake zoom backgrounds for fun, anyway?

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PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Stultus Maximus posted:

Stuart's right here. If you think that being convicted of a crime should bar someone for life from any job even a lovely no skill temporary retail position you are a bad person. Ban the box, Marla.
The exception is like, jobs closely related to their crimes if they committed the crime on the job, but honestly it's a low wage temporary retail position. It's not exactly like you're hiring an embezzler to keep your books, even if they hypothetically admit to having shoplifted before or whatever. Meet them and give them a chance.

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