Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Real dedicated attention to lighting and color temperature is what sells the cartoon. There are observed, moving light sources in the footage in roger that are drawn into the cartoon and referenced in the painting. The cinematography in space jam one, at least/especially when they're in the real world, is as good or better technically than roger rabbit despite being a dumber movie. It had the same cinematographer as raging bull!


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Isn't Oz only like the size of a country, and is also apparently rectangular and surrounded by impassable desert?

Yes! Many wheelers died.

The main detail is the poppyseeds on the oz, I think

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


The swinging light in the hideout room is the biggest flex in the world

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





YggiDee posted:

I listened to a podcast about Who Framed Roger Rabbit like two days ago so that's where all that came from.

What podcast was this?

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

It's the Blank Check podcast, they did the Robert Zameckis miniseries back in September. Actually, they did Hayao Miyazaki's movies last year, and just wrapped up John Musker and Ron Clemens, so there's probably something worth a listen in there too.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Didn't Roger Rabbit also lead to the Classic Animation resurgence that eventually led to Space Jam?

I remember Looney Tunes getting a big bump from the characters being in the film, leading to them being a staple of SatAM reruns for years, renewed interest in the shorts, etc.

Like it's pretty wild that this moonshot movie was a cataclysmic shakeup that breathed new life into the sector.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





FilthyImp posted:

Didn't Roger Rabbit also lead to the Classic Animation resurgence that eventually led to Space Jam?

I remember Looney Tunes getting a big bump from the characters being in the film, leading to them being a staple of SatAM reruns for years, renewed interest in the shorts, etc.

Like it's pretty wild that this moonshot movie was a cataclysmic shakeup that breathed new life into the sector.

Well certainly on the Disney side the next thing to come out was The Little Mermaid, which made everyone go wait what the gently caress was THAT

FunkyAl posted:

Real dedicated attention to lighting and color temperature is what sells the cartoon. There are observed, moving light sources in the footage in roger that are drawn into the cartoon and referenced in the painting. The cinematography in space jam one, at least/especially when they're in the real world, is as good or better technically than roger rabbit despite being a dumber movie. It had the same cinematographer as raging bull!

Yeah, this is zeroing in on what I was alluding to. There's something about the quality of lighting and fuzziness of line that makes the Roger Rabbit animation bits fit perfectly into the real-world setting. And all these environmental lighting details are probably a huge part of it, whereas a lot of the latter-day CGI stuff just doesn't bother because who would even think of it? There isn't a joke to be had in having your cartoon character bashing plates over his own head in a film where you're not driving yourself crazy with the demarcation between the two universes, so you're not even going to think of putting it in the script, let alone building a robot to grab and bash the stack of plates.

Sivart13
May 18, 2003
I have neglected to come up with a clever title

r u ready to WALK posted:

Roger Rabbit is a goddamn masterpiece and a lot of the reason is thanks to how much of it was bleeding edge practical effects at the time to connect the animation to the real world
watching clips of this makes me long for a "Roger without Roger" version of the movie that has all the live action stuff before they painted over it, just to see how these people were flinging themselves around and whatnot

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Roger Rabbit is pretty much an absolute miracle from a lot of perspectives, from WB and Disney playing nice to the giants of animation that apparently got involved along with extensive practical effects to sell it. And that it actually works quite well as a story and a movie from multiple angles, with the human characters having as much going on as the toons, and a setting that's obviously absurd but manages to be fairly internally consistent and makes sense, with a lot of subtle clues and context that they don't try to beat you around the head with.

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012
Hello I am a person doing a thing via buttons. It's amazing what electronic singnals traveling through space can accomplish.

Makes ya think.

Purple m&ms are the best.

the internet is a weird place. the person who made the best fanvideo i've ever seen (which happens to be a mlp amv of a florence + the machine song) deleted it from youtube years ago and now all that remains is a reupload with polish subtitles. thank you, random polish my little pony fan

bitterandtwisted
Sep 4, 2006






r u ready to WALK posted:

Roger Rabbit is a goddamn masterpiece and a lot of the reason is thanks to how much of it was bleeding edge practical effects at the time to connect the animation to the real world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Cx4h2ieyA


I can't get over Eddie Valiant talking in Hoskins' natural English accent

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




ungulateman posted:

the internet is a weird place. the person who made the best fanvideo i've ever seen (which happens to be a mlp amv of a florence + the machine song) deleted it from youtube years ago and now all that remains is a reupload with polish subtitles. thank you, random polish my little pony fan

You aren't going to link it?

perepelki
Dec 11, 2020

know before Whom you stand

bob hoskins was such an interesting guy who was taken far too young

wikipedia posted:

Hoskins was born in Bury St. Edmunds, West Suffolk, on 26 October 1942 to Robert Hoskins, a bookkeeper and a lorry driver, and Elsie (née Hopkins) Hoskins, a cook and nursery school teacher. His grandmother was Romani.

quote:

He attended Stroud Green Secondary School where he was written off as stupid on account of his dyslexia. He left school at 15 with a single O-Level and worked as a porter, lorry driver, plumber and window cleaner. He spent half a year in Israel on a kibbutz, and two years in Syria tending the camels of a Bedouin tribe.
it's not animation, but my favourite role of his was badger in wind in the willows

perepelki
Dec 11, 2020

know before Whom you stand

he growled like a dog and it was inexpressibly sexy

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


r u ready to WALK posted:

Roger Rabbit is a goddamn masterpiece and a lot of the reason is thanks to how much of it was bleeding edge practical effects at the time to connect the animation to the real world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Cx4h2ieyA



I love practical effects. You can always spot them, but done well they’re just good. This was a fun watch.

Even if I can’t watch practical special effects without thinking of StarWars and some of shortcomings for the second trilogy compared o the originals.

Here’s a thing though, for whatever reason well done stop motion/practical still freak me out significantly more than some CG monster.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Ghost Leviathan posted:

Isn't Oz only like the size of a country, and is also apparently rectangular and surrounded by impassable desert?

Also the country is literally the same shape and color scheme as its flag.

God those books are psycho.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




I finally saw Soul. I enjoyed the parts in the real world. Wasn't a big fan of all the afterlife/pre-life sections, despite the cool visual design and fun voice acting. It comes back to "everything is a bureaucracy" and "lets figure out ways to break the rule we just made up". A story about Joe and his band class and the struggle between teaching and stability and the life of a musician is more than enough meat for a story. As it is, his class got sidelined and we had to run around with an annoying blue thing voiced by Tina Fey for most of the runtime.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

Huh I mean I feel like that would be a totally different movie; I felt like it was explicitly kinda not about balancing between teaching and the life of a musician. Like the whole twist is about how he realizes that's not what's important in life. I can get feeling tired of the "everything is a bureaucracy" thing (although I still love the concept and would be happy to see more of these movies) but I felt like the supernatural stuff was a pretty core part of the whole thing.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Yeah I just would prefer if it didn't have a supernatural element. But it's an animated film, they're not gonna just stick with something they could do in live action.

Maybe if the supernatural element was handled differently, I dunno. Those sections were my least favorite parts of the film.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


https://twitter.com/allisonsmithart/status/1378795383212580867

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005

I've spent decades reading Covid-19 articles, far more than you have. That makes me more of an expert than you ever can dream of.

Buglord

Ccs posted:

A story about Joe and his band class and the struggle between teaching and stability and the life of a musician is more than enough meat for a story. As it is, his class got sidelined and we had to run around with an annoying blue thing voiced by Tina Fey for most of the runtime.

Honestly it feels like soul did an actual unique story with a nearly unheard of moral in media and right or wrong it's funny how many reviews come down to "well, I wish they had just done the normal moral I'm used to"

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!



Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Honestly it feels like soul did an actual unique story with a nearly unheard of moral in media and right or wrong it's funny how many reviews come down to "well, I wish they had just done the normal moral I'm used to"
LOL, I dunno about that, I think Soul's moral was super muddled and/or Hallmark card-level trite. Didn't it pretty much just boil down to "stop and smell the roses?"
Maybe if you're generous, the moral is "life is what happens when you're making other plans," but I don't think it stuck that landing if so.

I think it was a big misstep at the end.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



JazzFlight posted:

I think it was a big misstep at the end.
Guy achieves goal and realizes it's not really his passion... or something.

Like buddy, did you think you'd play a set every month and roll in dough?

mycot
Oct 23, 2014


Hell Gem

FilthyImp posted:

Guy achieves goal and realizes it's not really his passion... or something.

I haven't seen Soul but "big sentimental goals are actually not that satisfying" is kind of the moral of Up.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

JazzFlight posted:

LOL, I dunno about that, I think Soul's moral was super muddled and/or Hallmark card-level trite. Didn't it pretty much just boil down to "stop and smell the roses?"
Maybe if you're generous, the moral is "life is what happens when you're making other plans," but I don't think it stuck that landing if so.

I think it was a big misstep at the end.

What ending do you see it having if it hadn't, then? I feel like equating it to a Hallmark card to negate it somehow is kind of a meaningless criticism; there's nothing inherently trite about the concept of "life isn't only about the big things," even if culturally we've decided to present it that way most of the time.

I dunno, I guess I just found the movie resonated with me a lot.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!



Koramei posted:

What ending do you see it having if it hadn't, then? I feel like equating it to a Hallmark card to negate it somehow is kind of a meaningless criticism; there's nothing inherently trite about the concept of "life isn't only about the big things," even if culturally we've decided to present it that way most of the time.

I dunno, I guess I just found the movie resonated with me a lot.
I guess what I was hoping based on the story signals the movie was setting up:

I thought we were leading to Joe appreciating where he was in life regardless of what he thought his dream or spark really was (aka the "life is what happens when you're making other plans" moral). This was backed up by his interactions with his two students and almost most importantly, the offense the barber took when Joe insulted his profession. I thought that was foreshadowing to a character realizing that his life has been fulfilling if he would just get out of his head a bit more. Instead, we dial in more on appreciating spinning leaves or eating a piece of pie, more superficial "I'm glad I'm not dead because I can experience walking on a beach" messaging.

The very end seemed to just have Joe learn "oh, I'm not dead, I can't wait to smell a rose!" which seemed very... bleh.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


The final minute of Soul is sort of ruinous in how badly it bobbles the ending.

The problem boils down to the fact that the entire thematic arc of the movie boils down to Joe realizing that the thing he had built his entire life around was this hollow, self-destructive and ultimately kind of quixotic quest to validate a life that was made around a singular goal, a singular focus that once he achieves he ultimately ends up rejecting. Further, he realizes that the people and things he has sacrificed at the altar of his own personal validation has made him into kind of a lovely dude and thus the final act of the film is him realizing that he, one, has to redeem himself, which he does, and to come to the realization that what he truly enjoyed being was a teacher and to lift up and validate others.

So then we come to the final minute of the film, where Joe has completed his redemption arc and is now more or less where he started, but with the knowledge that what actually intellectually satisfies and validates him is teaching and guiding others. The obvious conclusion to this is to turn Joe into one of the pre-life teachers or at least a mentor.

The problem with having that ending is that it backhandedly argues that suicide is, in fact, the solution to your problems, so they have to give Joe his life back because otherwise it has some Bad Implications. This despite the fact that giving Joe his life back sort of invalidates his redemption arc in the first place and as a ending to the movie as written doesn’t make any sense.

That’s the fundamental issue with Soul. It is a movie with an ending that doesn’t make logical, thematic, or narrative sense as written but is quite literally the only solution they could realistically go with that doesn’t end up subtextually arguing to commit suicide.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

NieR Occomata posted:

The final minute of Soul is sort of ruinous in how badly it bobbles the ending.

The problem boils down to the fact that the entire thematic arc of the movie boils down to Joe realizing that the thing he had built his entire life around was this hollow, self-destructive and ultimately kind of quixotic quest to validate a life that was made around a singular goal, a singular focus that once he achieves he ultimately ends up rejecting. Further, he realizes that the people and things he has sacrificed at the altar of his own personal validation has made him into kind of a lovely dude and thus the final act of the film is him realizing that he, one, has to redeem himself, which he does, and to come to the realization that what he truly enjoyed being was a teacher and to lift up and validate others.

So then we come to the final minute of the film, where Joe has completed his redemption arc and is now more or less where he started, but with the knowledge that what actually intellectually satisfies and validates him is teaching and guiding others. The obvious conclusion to this is to turn Joe into one of the pre-life teachers or at least a mentor.

The problem with having that ending is that it backhandedly argues that suicide is, in fact, the solution to your problems, so they have to give Joe his life back because otherwise it has some Bad Implications. This despite the fact that giving Joe his life back sort of invalidates his redemption arc in the first place and as a ending to the movie as written doesn’t make any sense.

That’s the fundamental issue with Soul. It is a movie with an ending that doesn’t make logical, thematic, or narrative sense as written but is quite literally the only solution they could realistically go with that doesn’t end up subtextually arguing to commit suicide.

I don't think Joe's take-away was supposed to be he truly enjoys being a teacher and mentor. That merely swaps one goal/purpose for another. It was just that life was made up of millions of small moments (some of those involved his teaching and mentorship, others involved watching fireworks and writing a bike). And that it's ok to just enjoy life and not grind yourself to salt in pursuit of a purpose you're made to feel is important to you.

It's interesting to see all these takes on Soul because, merits of the film aside, I thought it's moral was very crystal clearly that you didn't have to have a purpose to just enjoy life. I'm not trying to be condescending, but it just seemed really spelled out. But obviously I guess it isn't.

I do think your suicide angle is a real stretch here though.

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Jesus Died for Your Songs



I think they also realized it was a very bad look to have their first Black main character’s arc to be “gave up his life so a middle aged white lady could enjoy hers”

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



I think if they recast so 22 wasn't voiced by a white woman they could've avoided a lot of issues.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Hawkperson posted:

I think they also realized it was a very bad look to have their first Black main character’s arc to be “gave up his life so a middle aged white lady could enjoy hers”

Oh that's a HUGE misstep (and I only left it out because we discussed it a bunch in this thread back when the movie first aired).

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Robindaybird posted:

I think if they recast so 22 wasn't voiced by a white woman they could've avoided a lot of issues.

Yeah someone at Pixar is clearly a big fan of Tina Fey and didn't think of (Dennis Reynolds voice) the implications.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


big Infinity Train clip!

https://twitter.com/hbomax/status/1380196236989509634

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Found this interview with Bakshi about toys and cartoons and wanted to share.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwcTm-vSR6Y

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

My horny on mane posting got the deviantart thread shut down

Im watching jungle book 2, it took 14 minutes for any talking animals to show up, loving unforgivable making me sit through scenes in the human village

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

My horny on mane posting got the deviantart thread shut down

but I do love bofa deez cats, bagheera and shere khan

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


A person is a talking animal.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

My horny on mane posting got the deviantart thread shut down

FunkyAl posted:

A person is a talking animal.

Two legs bad
Four legs good

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Hedrigall posted:

Two legs bad
Four legs good

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


Hedrigall posted:

Two legs bad
Four legs good

Only a bipedal, human or baboon or thumbed primate or octopus could draw an animated movie. Baloo the bear could too but again he'd have to be using his mitts like hands and not legs

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pyrotoad
Oct 24, 2010






Illegal Hen

Hedrigall posted:

Two legs bad
Four legs good



Behold, I have brought you a man!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply