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Barudak
May 7, 2007



Ok watched all the kung fu panda films, what the heck changed between 2 and 3. Its the same director, in theory, but 2 is a massively better use of its cast, more fights, props in fights, more kung fu storytelling, fights arent just squashes. Seriously, what the hell, that is an absurd drop in quality across the board between films.

Barudak fucked around with this message at 11:43 on May 17, 2020

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017



I'm gonna guess 2 still had some creative ideas left over and 3 is where they checked out

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!


Buglord

Shneak posted:

Yeah no Scoob is awful.

The animation and voice acting itself wasn’t bad, but it was completed ruined by the plot and forced modernization of the characters. It has the most convoluted non-mystery plot with some of the weirdest bad choices. Also yeah making a point to use Simon Cowell of all people somehow back-dated the film to the early 2000s.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Barudak posted:

Ok watched all the kung fu panda films, what the heck changed between 2 and 3. Its the same director, in theory, but 2 is a massively better use of its cast, more fights, props in fights, more kung fu storytelling, fights arent just squashes. Seriously, what the hell, that is an absurd drop in quality across the board between films.

I thought 3 had some interesting ideas like the interplay between Po's dads and the fact that the main villain's chains were timed to his background music were both fun. It was overall less memorable though. Also the Jade Zombies were decently creepy.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm gonna guess 2 still had some creative ideas left over and 3 is where they checked out

Its not just being out of ideas, because rehashing stuff would be a massive improvement. Like its beyond just the furious 5 do absolutely nothing in Kung Fu Panda 3, its that there are like 4 times as many fights in KFP2 and even the most throwaway fight is more interestingly setup, shot, and choreographed.

I just really hate Squashes and KFP 3 is nothing but that.

BioEnchanted posted:

I thought 3 had some interesting ideas like the interplay between Po's dads and the fact that the main villain's chains were timed to his background music were both fun. It was overall less memorable though. Also the Jade Zombies were decently creepy.

There are two separate fights with diegetic music/the fight making part of the song in KFP2. I liked the chains in 3, but again the fights are so short and only 3 of them (of 4! In the film) that you never get to build it to anything.

Barudak fucked around with this message at 12:05 on May 17, 2020

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011



Ultra Carp

My younger daughter just discovered Dora The Explorer, which I never watched when I was a kid. The format of the show is so strange - does she live in that computer? Is the animation intentionally bad to replicate a 90's educational computer game?

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Found my answer for why KFP3 is such a huge drop in fight quality:

Rudolphe Guenoden was the fight choreographer for KFP 1 and 2, but only did story art for the other films.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I think a good summary is this - the joke fight with a Radish in 2 has more interesting choreography and camera work than the Panda Village Siege in 3.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008

DON'T DOUBLE DOWN ON YOUR STUPID SHIT JUST CAUSE YOU THINK IT'S FUNNY. YOU MAKE STUPID FUCKING DECISIONS ALL THE TIME THEN DOUBLE DOWN LIKE A PETULANT CHILD. GOD I FUCKING HATE YOU SO MUCH SOMETIMES.

The villain guy was treated as a joke the whole time too, that didn’t help much.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

Furgiven, but not furgotten


I really liked KFP3, it has one of my favourite animated villains of all time

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008

DON'T DOUBLE DOWN ON YOUR STUPID SHIT JUST CAUSE YOU THINK IT'S FUNNY. YOU MAKE STUPID FUCKING DECISIONS ALL THE TIME THEN DOUBLE DOWN LIKE A PETULANT CHILD. GOD I FUCKING HATE YOU SO MUCH SOMETIMES.

I think the problem for me was he was never really shown as a credible threat. Not like the first two movies anyways.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Part of that is that the big instigating moment is him destroying part of the temple to show off, but a much worse story did that aspect better - Xiaolin Chronicles opens with the same gambit, but the villains go out to destroy the entire temple, not just one building, leaving the heroes homeless, and the destruction is directly caused partially by the heroes fighting back and being thrown through walls, so it's less "a villain showing off by beating up a statue" and more "the heroes and villains are fighting so hard it's literally earth-shattering" which is far more impressive.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


Barudak posted:

Ok watched all the kung fu panda films, what the heck changed between 2 and 3. Its the same director, in theory, but 2 is a massively better use of its cast, more fights, props in fights, more kung fu storytelling, fights arent just squashes. Seriously, what the hell, that is an absurd drop in quality across the board between films.

I haven't sat down and watched the full thing yet, but I've watched all the clips YouTube has. The big problem I have with what I saw is that they seem to undercut every. single. thing with a joke. And I know the series has always had comedy to break up the seriousness, like Po setting his hand on fire during the big finale of 2. But it feels like every scene I watched every single serious moment or fight scene would immediately be deflated by a joke of some kind. It really killed the tone of all of them

Barudak
May 7, 2007



In addition to jokes undermining every fight, there are only five of them in the film, seven if you are extremely extremely charitable regarding the boat scene and the setup to the final fight. In none of them except the final battle is there any seeming sense of urgency, and even there its purely because the villain has a technique that has no explanation or counter except as plot demands. Worse, the chi power is never really demonstrated and po never really practices it so when we roll to the final fight it doesnt really feel like that has any connection to his journey.

You have:

  • an opening fight where the villain does... something while being mocked he'll lose
  • the first fight with the jade warriors where po cant stop talking about how cool they are and is despite theoretically fighting master warriors in 0 palpable danger whatsoever
    the boat thing where seth rogen and david cross cashed paychecks for about 2 lines of dialog each in the entire film
  • the fight at the temple which has a cool setup but lasts about five seconds and carries no emotional weight whatsoever because Po isnt there and never really discusses it. Lucy Liu collects her paycheck for even less work than seth rogen and david cross
  • the panda seige where the jade soldiers who, remember, have had one whole fight prior to this where they were soundly trounced, are beaten by various random villagers and a master warrior we've seen kick rear end in two previous films beaten by a professional chef
  • Our second "fight" where Po chumps our villain basically instantly after learning his sneak attack wont work although why he doesnt even attempt to just fight the villain is a mystery since its not like they establish hes particularly strong or deadly compared to po
  • The final fight where villain beats up Po until the story demands he get an upgrade he did absolutely not a goddamn thing to learn, attempt to learn, or even set a ground rule for how it might work and then he instantly destroys the villain because gently caress it, the thing the villain wants is bad now with no explanation

Barudak fucked around with this message at 14:40 on May 17, 2020

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I thought there were some dramatic moments that were kind of interesting like when Po's adoptive dad is comforting his bio-dad after Po finds out he lied to him and he's just like "Your sons mad at you, huh? I've been there." "But, I lied to him!" "I lied to Po for 20 years, you'll be fine."

I also liked Po's side of that where he builds the training dummy after giving up on the chi thing and basically stonewalls Tigress because he's too focused on how much poo poo he's going to be in due to feeling unprepared.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Hedrigall posted:

From this I assumed the cop in question would be some dadbodded chonky male cop character, which says a lot about the kind of twitter accounts I follow

Sounds like we follow similar ones, as a few have mine have been all about Barley Lightfoot recently.

World Famous W
May 25, 2007

BAAAAAAAAAAAA



Grimey Drawer

I really like the dad scenes in KFP3 but can't remember poo poo outside that

SomeJazzyRat
Nov 2, 2012

Hmmm...


I also assumed that part of the problem may have been that Kung Fu Panda 2 was a full American Dreamworks production, while 3 was a co-production between the American studio and Dreamworks' newly founded 'Oriental Dreamworks Studio'-nee-Pearl Studios (which Chinese investors have invested a lot of money into). I assume at that point, notes went from American execs trying to mold it into something western audience pleasing, to international money men giving multiple notes that probably ruined a lot of creative choices. Not to mention the logistic hiccups that come from two studios, across the world, working on the same film.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

SomeJazzyRat posted:

I also assumed that part of the problem may have been that Kung Fu Panda 2 was a full American Dreamworks production, while 3 was a co-production between the American studio and Dreamworks' newly founded 'Oriental Dreamworks Studio'-nee-Pearl Studios (which Chinese investors have invested a lot of money into). I assume at that point, notes went from American execs trying to mold it into something western audience pleasing, to international money men giving multiple notes that probably ruined a lot of creative choices. Not to mention the logistic hiccups that come from two studios, across the world, working on the same film.

I think a big factor is that since it was now actually made in China, the censors were also probably a lot more strict with the film. Even if the censors weren't directly telling them what to cut, I imagine the Chinese studio was trying hard not to piss off Winnie the Pooh.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Yeah. Kung-Fu Panda was a massive hit in China, and despite having all the things Chinese audiences love, it was not a film that would've been made in China due to the censorship boards.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



flashy_mcflash posted:

My younger daughter just discovered Dora The Explorer, which I never watched when I was a kid. The format of the show is so strange - does she live in that computer? Is the animation intentionally bad to replicate a 90's educational computer game?
Dora and her friends are just NPCs in a procedurally generated SCUMM-style edutainment game for kinderkids. In addition to teaching them basic school poo poo and biliteracy, it also covers basic computer skills (clicking, dragging, mouse use).

There's different versions for various languages, as she crosses over with her Chinese-language counterpart at one point.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

A DAILY DOSE
OF OLD SHOOTERS


PLAY NOW MY LORD



Shneak posted:

Simon Cowell (in TYOOL 2020)

I keep seeing this gripe about Scoob and it's making me really wonder if some people just woke up from a 2004 coma, because Simon Cowell had a comeback as one of the America's Got Talent judges a few years ago and that show is loving gargantuan

Like, unless it's specifically an American Idol reference (and even then, that show was supposed to come back semi-recently), that's not nearly as dated as people are trying to claim

Barudak
May 7, 2007



It being a chinese co-production doesn't really explain why the action choreography tanked so much unless swapping between studios mean all motion had to he reduced, which, actually I kind of buy.

For censorship, the KFP films are ridiculously safe movies in regards to what the CCP opposes and the 8 million Wuxia shows/movies with tons of acrobatic violence tells me thats not why the writing and other quality degraded so badly.

Im gonna have to watch the direct to tv ones now to see if the pattern holds, arent I?

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011



Ultra Carp

FilthyImp posted:

Dora and her friends are just NPCs in a procedurally generated SCUMM-style edutainment game for kinderkids. In addition to teaching them basic school poo poo and biliteracy, it also covers basic computer skills (clicking, dragging, mouse use).

There's different versions for various languages, as she crosses over with her Chinese-language counterpart at one point.

I never even thought of it that way but it totally does. My kids have never known a world without touchscreens so I forget sometimes how things like mouse use might not be intuitive.

As a learning tool I can't argue with its effectiveness. My 2.5 year old wanted me to open the gate yesterday she shouted 'abre!'

Pick
Jul 19, 2009


Nap Ghost

Barudak posted:

It being a chinese co-production doesn't really explain why the action choreography tanked so much unless swapping between studios mean all motion had to he reduced, which, actually I kind of buy.

For censorship, the KFP films are ridiculously safe movies in regards to what the CCP opposes and the 8 million Wuxia shows/movies with tons of acrobatic violence tells me thats not why the writing and other quality degraded so badly.

Im gonna have to watch the direct to tv ones now to see if the pattern holds, arent I?

I actually liked the DVD extra "Secrets of the Furious Five".

The original Kung Fu Panda is one of my favorite films, 2 is okay, and I own three but have never managed to watch the whole thing which is pretty unusual for me. Like, it's not BAD, I just don't care about what's happening.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I appreciate KFP2 a lot, its very inventive even if its mostly "just" a kungfu story and lacks the same heart as the first film, especially as James Hong duck disappears after the first act. It does an incredibly good job of integrating the films technique throughout the story and in a way that pays off in the finale, and gives the cast stuff to do. Importantly, it introduces multi-opponent fights and more movement between areas/prop usage which is a step up over the first film which is more like a western building up to two boss encounters.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

The rain drop inner peace scene in KFP2 is easily the peak of the franchise, and one of the best scenes from an animated film in general (imo). I get goosebumps just thinking about how good that whole bit was—the flashbacks in traditional 2D were great, the music, and I loved Po's costume design with the bandages and stuff there. Super good movie; I'll watch it sometime this week now I think, hah.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I'll always have trouble with that one gag in Kung Fu Panda 2 when Shifu's talking about enlightenment through suffering and he claims that Po arriving was the worst day of his life. Really? Driving a tiger cub criminally insane through being the worlds worst teacher didn't rank higher? He's just lucky that Po was stable enough due to his father's influence that Shifu couldn't gently caress him up like he did Tigress and Tai Lung

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


The Saddest Rhino posted:

Didn't one of the first 3d scooby movies use scrappy as a villain before? Why do they still do this

I think it's the result of the joke being taken too far. Scrappy is apparently disliked a lot, so the people who used to watch him growing up now always make him the bad guy. (I liked Scrappy)

It's like how after Hasbro bought Gobots most writers has the Transformers beat up the Gobots somewhere in the corner or throw away shots.



BioEnchanted posted:

I thought there were some dramatic moments that were kind of interesting like when Po's adoptive dad is comforting his bio-dad after Po finds out he lied to him and he's just like "Your sons mad at you, huh? I've been there." "But, I lied to him!" "I lied to Po for 20 years, you'll be fine."

I also liked Po's side of that where he builds the training dummy after giving up on the chi thing and basically stonewalls Tigress because he's too focused on how much poo poo he's going to be in due to feeling unprepared.

Having not seen KFP3, I really love all scenes with the dad in the previous 2 movies. They're depicted as just a healthy family despite being different. The adopted joke from KFP1 coming back up in later movies as not actually being a joke also never stops being funny to me.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


I liked 2 more than one. A lot of that is Shen is such a good villain, but I also think the rain drop scene, the fight on the boats, and the cannonball scene are just insanely good compared to anything in the first movie (which I'm not saying is bad of course, the first movie is also really good).

One aspect of the series that I do really like is how Po thinks Tigress is cool as hell. Like, he's the legendary dragon warrior! He's immune to Tai Lung's paralyzing attack, he found inner peace (at such a young age)! And yet anytime Tigress does or says something badass he think it's super cool and I love that.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

KFP1 is great, but I have an irrationally strong dislike of the villain's voice casting. It just feels way off. KFP2 definitely wins in that regard.

Edit: to clarify, not knocking the performance per se. I just don't like that voice coming out of that character.

Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 18, 2020

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I like moments of Iain McShane's performance, like the bewildered whisper on "But...but you're a panda.. he's a panda!?" I just like that he just kind of tosses the second line quietly off to Shifu really rapidly like he's expecting some kind of clarification from him. It's kind of like when someone's trying to speak after running really hard where they can only get their words out in short bursts on the exhales. It's like he can't decide whether this is really happening or whether Po and Shifu are gaslighting him for a laugh.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 13:04 on May 18, 2020

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

BioEnchanted posted:

I like moments of Iain McShane's performance, like the bewildered whisper on "But...but you're a panda.. he's a panda!?" I just like that he just kind of tosses the second line quietly off to Shifu really rapidly like he's expecting some kind of clarification from him. It's kind of like when someone's trying to speak after running really hard where they can only get their words out in short bursts on the exhales. It's like he can't decide whether this is really happening or whether Po and Shifu are gaslighting him for a laugh.
yeah, the incredulity is really well done. the whole scene and fight is fantastic. just a sec, gonna watch it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL-UE7Et9OM&hd=1

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

I also love the wolf in the second movie, where he just has so many reactions that are completely purely canine, like when calling out Shen for loving up the timing on the Year of the Peacock he's nervously licking his face like a dog would. Also his reactions to fighting Po, like during their initial fight where he's like "Wow, your so soft! It's like punching a fluffy cloud!" and when describing him to Shen just "He fought like a demon, powerful and wild, but kinda... plush... and cuddly..."

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


"Buddy, I am the dragon warrior" is such a well delivered line

MinionOfCthulhu
Oct 28, 2005

I got this title for free due to my proximity to an idiot who wanted to save $5 on an avatar by having someone else spend $9.95 instead.


I would like to take a moment to discuss a cartoon with a rather bleak and troubling backstory. The actual work does not delve too deeply into this, but it is there.

I am talking, of course, about TOTS, or Tiny Ones Transport Service.

If you are unaware of what this is, it is a cartoon on Disney Junior about a penguin and flamingo who join the all-stork TOTS, who deliver babies all over the world from their floating island. The service is lead by a Captain, with dozens of workers. Baby animals of all kinds come to TOTS to be delivered out to their "moms and pops", wherein they are taken care of by a kindly koala, and then sent on a mechanized conveyor belt in order to be processed, diapered, given a pacifier, and finally set into a crate, to be delivered by the aforementioned storks. Or, in the show's case, the flamingo and penguin. The penguin can't fly, but has a good sense of direction, and the flamingo can't navigate worth anything, but he does have wings. The two of them are probably paid as much as one stork is, but the Captain felt like taking a chance on them.

Paid? Oh, yeah. There's money in this. This is all for-profit! There is an episode where a peacock inventor comes to their island with a robot stork. He says he wants to show off his invention to the captain because he hopes she'll fire the storks and buy his robots. That has to mean money is changing hands at some point in this baby delivery service, right?? I mean, why would you buy these robot storks unless you're paying the flesh and blood ones! Presumably babies are purchased before the delivery, because the show never shows money changing hands (or paws, or flippers or whatever).

There has to be other baby delivery companies too, because in one day, they're delivering their first baby blue whale, and the next, they're about to celebrate their millionth delivery. Well either that's the first blue whale baby ever, or someone else is covering those deliveries. Which is probably a good idea, because the storks needed to all team up to deliver this whale, and there can't be much profit if you have six deliverers on one assignment.

Why yes, I am cooped up in a house with a 16-month old, why do you ask

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??


I don't know much about TOTS but I do know it's made by Titmouse of all studios

MinionOfCthulhu
Oct 28, 2005

I got this title for free due to my proximity to an idiot who wanted to save $5 on an avatar by having someone else spend $9.95 instead.


I will say that terrifying implications aside, it's kind of a cute show, and they stealth had a baby delivered to a lesbian couple, so that's nice. They got more screentime then the cyclops lady from Onward or whatever.

AMA about my opinions on Disney Junior shows

Digamma-F-Wau posted:

I don't know much about TOTS but I do know it's made by Titmouse of all studios

It has a lot in common with The Venture Bros.

Okay, maybe not really, but the presentation of the show shows that they actually care about how it looks and is animated, unlike those slapdash Puppy Dog Pals. drat you, Bingo and Rolly.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007





I still need to watch Onward but I also don't want to bawl my eyes out right now.

MinionOfCthulhu posted:

drat you, Bingo and Rolly.

Rolly is the best Dalmatian and I will hear none of this.

To be honest, the best high school memory I have was sitting on the phone and watching Sesame Street with a friend of mine. We caught SO many adult jokes in that weird Elmo's World skit.

Preschool shows kind of rule.

Llama Llama is a cute Netflix show too.

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Pick
Jul 19, 2009


Nap Ghost

Onward was the saddest thing I've ever seen. A man took an incredibly touching, unbelievably personal experience of having two words of his dead father's voice to remember him by, and made a totally forgettable movie out of it. Imagine taking the most profound experience of your life and cashing it out to produce something where people go like, yeah, I think I saw that, had elves or some poo poo right

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