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Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
So Soul was pretty good! The movie actually spends quite a bit of time in the real world. The visuals for the afterlife locations are REALLY good. Especially the desert of lost souls and ESPECIALLY the scene at the end when Joe gets trapped in 22's sad lost soul storm. Those visuals were pretty intense and felt like what they might have made hell look like if they had gone there during the movie.

I'm not totally sure how I feel about the ending though. I figured Joe would opt to become a mentor. The afterlife worker letting him have a second chance felt kind of cop outty to me, but maybe I'm putting more thought into the rules into the way the afterlife works than Pixar wanted me to.

There's one other thing I want to bring up. There was some discourse when the trailers for this movie were first shown about how black characters always get transformed into other creatures, and that this is doing that again. I'm a white dude so I'm curious how black people feel about Joe not only ending up as a soul pretty early on, but eventually ends up in a cat while Tina Fey ends up in Joe's body for a large percentage of the movie. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me and some of the most emotional moments in the movie happens there, but I'm a white guy and I'm going to view those things in a different light

The movie will also really make you want pizza

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Ignis
Mar 31, 2011

I take it you don't want my autograph, then.


Macaluso posted:

There's one other thing I want to bring up. There was some discourse when the trailers for this movie were first shown about how black characters always get transformed into other creatures, and that this is doing that again. I'm a white dude so I'm curious how black people feel about Joe not only ending up as a soul pretty early on, but eventually ends up in a cat while Tina Fey ends up in Joe's body for a large percentage of the movie. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me and some of the most emotional moments in the movie happens there, but I'm a white guy and I'm going to view those things in a different light

I generally liked the movie, but I have to admit that part didn't really sit well with me and it felt like they could've avoided it somewhat by recasting Tina Fey's character. Joe grows as a person only after the middle-aged white woman speaks on his behalf, her actions reminding him about the good things in life he'd forgotten about. The movie intends to show that they're both learning from each other, but I feel it focused a bit too much on Fey's character on the second act, making Joe a sidekick on the movie he's supposed to be starring in. I think Fey had an okay performance, but she never quite owns the character and they could've safely casted a bipoc person instead.

It's better than Onward, at least. Movie looks great and the soundtrack is probably one of the best Pixar soundtracks I've heard in some time. Also Tina Fey earned that guest writing credit for that jab at the basketball team, no way in hell she didn't write that one.

E: the ending was a bit of a cop out, I'd bet they didn't want to commit to having the main character die after the miserable hell of a year we've all had.

Ignis fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 25, 2020

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Animation-adjacent, but I got Disney+, it contains less than I expected but whatever. However before I let it run out due to lack of applicable content, I watched one of the things I was super excited for, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. (Sorry to whoever works at Disney who has to eventually put the data point of "the millennial who watched 20000 leagues and an old special about alligators and then cancelled.) anyway.

Super good movie, absolutely loved it. Its fabulous. My only question is, Nemo is so clearly the good guy that... was he viewed differently at the time? How? Why? He's explicitly sinking war profiteers who benefit from slave labor. I'm with him 100%. That guy is a hero!

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
Liking Soul so far, the design for the Jerries are really fun and creative.

First movie I see with my new soundbar and it’s a good one for it. Soundtrack is terrific!

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Ignis posted:

It's better than Onward, at least. Movie looks great and the soundtrack is probably one of the best Pixar soundtracks I've heard in some time. Also Tina Fey earned that guest writing credit for that jab at the basketball team, no way in hell she didn't write that one.

Is the basketball thing a reference I'm not getting?

Ignis posted:

E: the ending was a bit of a cop out, I'd bet they didn't want to commit to having the main character die after the miserable hell of a year we've all had.

I liked it. I'm way too tired of seeing stories where the dead person needs to accept that they're dead and move on. I ain't having any of that poo poo when I become a ghost! But also, narratively, it makes sense for him to get another chance, because the movie is about learning what life is about, not about dying and death.

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

Argue posted:

Is the basketball thing a reference I'm not getting?


The Knicks are a bad team, and now we know why

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Overall I liked Soul but I've just got a stubborn attitude about it because I'm a middle school band director so obviously the moral of the story should have been Joe realizing that being a middle school band director was the ultimate meaning of life lol

Ignis posted:

I generally liked the movie, but I have to admit that part didn't really sit well with me and it felt like they could've avoided it somewhat by recasting Tina Fey's character. Joe grows as a person only after the middle-aged white woman speaks on his behalf, her actions reminding him about the good things in life he'd forgotten about. The movie intends to show that they're both learning from each other, but I feel it focused a bit too much on Fey's character on the second act, making Joe a sidekick on the movie he's supposed to be starring in. I think Fey had an okay performance, but she never quite owns the character and they could've safely casted a bipoc person instead.

Yeah, same. I felt really weird about knowing that Black people not getting to be themselves in animated movies is a thing, and seeing a white person driving around a Black person's body. It came off as a well-intentioned white person attempt to improve the situation that actually ended up coming off worse. But I'm not Black so who really cares what I think about it

quote:

It's better than Onward, at least. Movie looks great and the soundtrack is probably one of the best Pixar soundtracks I've heard in some time. Also Tina Fey earned that guest writing credit for that jab at the basketball team, no way in hell she didn't write that one.

Agreed, and yeah that was the best joke of the entire movie

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
Having seen Soul fully now, I will say I like it quite a bit! I do wonder how well children will like it tho.

One gripe I had with it, which is a very shallow one to be fair:

The design of the cat wasn't very good IMO. It reminded me too much of those "Pet's life" movies or whatever they're called. I realize that they needed it to emote and talk and all that, but I just remember the photorealistic cat in Toy Story 4 and think that this is a massive step back, considering all the other, frankly fantastic, designs they had going for them in this movie. I loved the design of all the Jerries and Terry. Very unique and fun!

[edit] A plus with this being on Disney+ is that you can easily go back and rewatch some stuff. I have to say, the sequence of him falling from the stairway to the beyond into the before, is pretty fantastic. The black and white animation is very very well done.

BigglesSWE fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Dec 26, 2020

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
i also just watched klaus for the first time. it looks incredible and the comedic bits land really well (when they're not too wrapped up in explaining santa lore), but the movie seemed weirdly averse to showing serious moments in a fulfilling way. you get klaus' backstory but everything else is either off screen or just glossed over, and i was surprised by how relatively little interaction jesper and klaus end up having. also the sami being santa's elves was a little... weird

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

I thought Soul was pretty good, but was just missing a final “spark,” you could say that really could have brought it together for me. I get the message they were going for, but it wasn’t really clearly stated by the characters directly and felt a bit vague and/or trite. I also thought the lesson was that the main character was going to realize that his “life” has been helping shape students lives and maybe he’d hear some inspirational messages from them and he’d realize his purpose was what he’d been doing already, but nah, just kinda ended on “live every moment to the fullest,” which is like... ehhh?

If there was a movie that needed a little sweet post-finale credits montage of the main character’s immediate future, it was this one.
I liked the moral of Over the Moon better.

On another note, watch the Burrow short that launched alongside this, it has a clearer message in 6 minutes and has some gorgeous 2D animation.

JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 26, 2020

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, I always got the impression he is supposed to be sympathetic and a tragic character that has been broken by the horrors of war, refusing to allow scientific discoveries concerning submarines and marine life to be released because he does not trust humanity.

I remember Whale of a Tale being on a Disney Sing-a-long tape (with other nautical-related songs and hosted by Von Drake instead of the school house of birds like most of those)

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
he is right

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Oh especially when Disney changed the power source of the Nautilus to Atomic Energy.

Neon Noodle
Nov 11, 2016

there's nothing wrong here in montana
Have you watched The Black Hole? Not animation but kind of interesting and a horrible mess.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
I own it on dvd because I bought it with money!!!!!

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Pick posted:

Animation-adjacent, but I got Disney+, it contains less than I expected but whatever. However before I let it run out due to lack of applicable content, I watched one of the things I was super excited for, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. (Sorry to whoever works at Disney who has to eventually put the data point of "the millennial who watched 20000 leagues and an old special about alligators and then cancelled.) anyway.

Super good movie, absolutely loved it. Its fabulous. My only question is, Nemo is so clearly the good guy that... was he viewed differently at the time? How? Why? He's explicitly sinking war profiteers who benefit from slave labor. I'm with him 100%. That guy is a hero!

So a) 20,000 leagues under the sea rules and is a huge part of Tokyo Sea Disney and b) the film cleans him up a little to be slightly less deranged.

That said he's supposed to be a deeply disturbed tragic figure who while having noble qualities is ultimately a danger to himself and others. Pitiable but not someone you'd want to hang out with when he decides its suicide mission time.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
I'd read the book ages ago but I meant in the context of the film. (Though admittedly I don't recall the book specifics, though the plot progression was immediately familiar so I think it tracks fairly closely?) anyway time to go to Tokyo Sea Disney :hmmyes:

Pick fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Dec 26, 2020

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin

Barudak posted:

So a) 20,000 leagues under the sea rules and is a huge part of Tokyo Sea Disney

I went there in Feb, the Jules Verne themed section of the park and the couple of rides housed there were excellent (as was everything else in the park, maybe my favourite theme park I’ve been to)

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

If I remember right the order of some events changes, and some things are cut to get to the action sooner I am recalling as a kid that I thought Kirk Douglas' character was kind of a jackass.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Anyway Soul's very Pixar-by-the-book, if you like their stuff that's more of it.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Actually, more and more there's one thing that troubled me about Soul, and it was that Soul 22 was berated by all of these famous people--most of them famously good people, like Ghandi and Abraham Lincoln. And that this was something they just could not stop cutting back to. It felt, for one, totally unnecessary to the story structure, and also weirdly contemptuous and mean-spirited. In some cases I didn't really get what the joke "was" other than that someone historical was actually poo poo as a human being. Like, we can take Lincoln for example: he's shown to be a hot-headed man with a temper because Jackson's on the $20 bill and he's only on the penny. Huh? Lincoln is actually someone I'm rather passionate about, and to be honest this joke wasn't even making a point that's relevant to Lincoln like history trivia or anything. Or like an Easter egg for people who know more about Lincoln, or really to anything resembling Lincoln at all. It was basically making the joke "yeah, but you know Lincoln was probably a real rear end in a top hat haha" except... that bears no resemblance to the historical Lincoln either. Actually, he'd have had trouble talking with Soul 22 using her middle-aged woman voice because he was so afraid of women if he was left alone with one he'd get so anxious he'd stare at his feet and couldn't really talk.

Anyway, it reminded me of the Iranian commentator earlier this year who said, with response to the assassination of their general: "In your opinion, if anyone around the world wants to take their revenge on the assassination of Soleimani and intends to do it proportionately in the way they suggest — that we take one of theirs now that they've got one of ours — who should we consider to take out in the context of America? Think about it. Are we supposed to take out Spider-Man and SpongeBob? They don't have any heroes. We have a country in front of us with a large population and a large landmass, but it doesn't have any heroes. All of their heroes are cartoon characters — they're all fictional."

But it's beyond that, it seems gauche to actually consider a "real person" capable of heroism or rectitude or good character.

madey
Sep 17, 2007

I saved the Olympics singlehandedly
Soul was pretty great but having watched Coco earlier in the day, that movie's ending really put a bow on things and resonated emotionally whereas the ending to Soul didn't quite work for me. It felt like the whole movie was about a tension between Joe's teaching/mentoring and Jazz but the ending kinda sidesteps any specific resolution to make a general point about living life. Also there was some looming peril missing in the real world at the end to parallel the scenes in the great beyond/before where Joe's soul should be heading towards the light. I know sudden brain aneurysms are a thing but from going from playing piano at home to potentially shuffling off the mortal coil is unsatisfactory imo

The animation, art design (particularly the black and white stuff in the great beyond), voice acting and music were A+ though. I wonder if this movie will be in best picture contention due to the circumstances this year?

We turned the movie off during the credits, was there a post credits scene with 22's reaction to being born a uighur after previewing life on earth in NYC?

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of :frog:


madey posted:

Soul was pretty great but having watched Coco earlier in the day, that movie's ending really put a bow on things and resonated emotionally whereas the ending to Soul didn't quite work for me. It felt like the whole movie was about a tension between Joe's teaching/mentoring and Jazz but the ending kinda sidesteps any specific resolution to make a general point about living life. Also there was some looming peril missing in the real world at the end to parallel the scenes in the great beyond/before where Joe's soul should be heading towards the light. I know sudden brain aneurysms are a thing but from going from playing piano at home to potentially shuffling off the mortal coil is unsatisfactory imo

The ending is great. The point is that living life is about living life. It's not about changing the world, or even finding some particular fulfilling purpose. The key to Joe's happiness was never finding the right labor, it was about connecting to his every day and taking joy in it. There's visual storytelling done there, but it's sorta quick; when they're going through the Hall of You early on, Joe eating a piece of pie alone is shown as an example of what a sadsack he is. Later on, when he's having his big emotional breakthrough, they cut back and Joe is able to recontextualize it. The diner was cozy and the pie was delicious. His spark was never pie, the choice between teaching and being a pro pianist wasn't what was making him sad. It was his all consuming drive on a goal, then the realization that maybe there isn't a magical key to happiness that made him sad. A slightly different way of plotting the same themes probably would have explicitly made him a lost soul - they're described as people who "can't let go of their anxieties and obsessions, leaving them lost and disconnected from life." Joe was so obsessed with getting that big break, he was disconnected from the joys of life...like eating a piece of good pie in a warm cafe.

Cutting away before he "resolves" the tension is key to driving that point home. Joe's happy the second he walks out that door and takes a breath. Does it matter where he hands in his two week notice and where he is in a year? No; your job isn't your spark, the process of living is.

As a cog in a giant bureaucratic machine who never comes close to seeing the people I serve, this resonates with me. Some of my best friends get real meaning from their jobs. Growing up, how often did you hear poo poo like "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life?" Stories about job and the meaning of life really frequently focus on that magical match. Sometimes I think "is there something wrong with me, that I'm happy with my life even though I don't have a grand purpose?" Soul says - "no! Just live life. That's the point."

Also, I like to think that if the Jerris hadn't worked things out to get Joe back, he would've just been in a coma.


I think the movie was solid. Not one of their best, but that's a hard bar to clear. I think it got caught up in its own metaphor in a way that Inside Out managed to dodge, and some of the body swap humor felt...below Pixar, if that makes sense? But the lesson is lovely, the visuals were nice and varied, and the score was great. Joe talking about what music means to him was reminiscent of Remy talking about cooking, which was inspiring. One thing that Pixar remains consistently good at is letting their enthusiasm for the content shine through. Like, even Cars wasn't great, but you really got a solid handle on how much car/road trip/Route 66 culture meant to Lasseter.

Boxman fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 26, 2020

galenanorth
May 19, 2016

Boxman posted:

The ending is great.

seconding this on the ambiguous ending. I've seen people say that Disney doesn't get to be selling this "enjoy life" message because so many involved are probably comfortable and had much more financial backing in achieving their dreams than most and didn't have to settle, but they're right anyway. I'd seen the line "a life doesn't have to have a purpose to be meaningful" in Kino's Journey. It also reminds me of how in Trollz, the Bergens think that unless they eat a troll, they'll never be happy, except it's broader than just talking about materialism.

I liked all the afterlife/beforelife animation except for the blue people designs.

I agree that all 22's mentors being historically famous people with a joke of "even they couldn't put up with her" and the way in which that happened didn't sit right with me, either

galenanorth fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 26, 2020

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Pick posted:

Actually, more and more there's one thing that troubled me about Soul, and it was that Soul 22 was berated by all of these famous people--most of them famously good people, like Ghandi and Abraham Lincoln. And that this was something they just could not stop cutting back to. It felt, for one, totally unnecessary to the story structure, and also weirdly contemptuous and mean-spirited. In some cases I didn't really get what the joke "was" other than that someone historical was actually poo poo as a human being. Like, we can take Lincoln for example: he's shown to be a hot-headed man with a temper because Jackson's on the $20 bill and he's only on the penny. Huh? Lincoln is actually someone I'm rather passionate about, and to be honest this joke wasn't even making a point that's relevant to Lincoln like history trivia or anything. Or like an Easter egg for people who know more about Lincoln, or really to anything resembling Lincoln at all. It was basically making the joke "yeah, but you know Lincoln was probably a real rear end in a top hat haha" except... that bears no resemblance to the historical Lincoln either. Actually, he'd have had trouble talking with Soul 22 using her middle-aged woman voice because he was so afraid of women if he was left alone with one he'd get so anxious he'd stare at his feet and couldn't really talk.

Anyway, it reminded me of the Iranian commentator earlier this year who said, with response to the assassination of their general: "In your opinion, if anyone around the world wants to take their revenge on the assassination of Soleimani and intends to do it proportionately in the way they suggest — that we take one of theirs now that they've got one of ours — who should we consider to take out in the context of America? Think about it. Are we supposed to take out Spider-Man and SpongeBob? They don't have any heroes. We have a country in front of us with a large population and a large landmass, but it doesn't have any heroes. All of their heroes are cartoon characters — they're all fictional."

But it's beyond that, it seems gauche to actually consider a "real person" capable of heroism or rectitude or good character.


I super agree with this. It's really weird to do this in general but even if they wanted to do some winky 'haha here's a flaw in this person you likely only know as a heroic figure' thing there's...actually things to do as quick little aside jokes to make fun of historical figures? Making it generic 'I bet they'd just be bullies and yell about minor slights all day' poo poo is just really cheap and boring. Like, yea, if you wanna have a Lincoln joke in your story just make him the weird awkward nerd he was, that's a funny joke because most Americans just know him as a great orator and all!

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
I have a short animation, that I made, ready for view this Boxing Day.

https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/775794

One week only! May the Force Be With You.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
20k Leagues was my favorite movie as a child and I was devastated when the ride at Disney World closed. I have been to DisneySeas and the whole Nemo-land is amazing.

Anyway, Nemo is a very complicated character which is why he is still in the public consciousness 150 years after Verne created him. You can see him in different ways... right, wrong, somewhere in between... and adaptations of his story have all those and more.

For the Disney version I would say he is mixed. Clearly the movie ends with the loss of the Nautilus being tragic and even Ned seems to regret being responsible for bringing the Navy to destroy the island (especially after they shoot at him instead of trying to save him).

But while Nemo was right about the Nautilus's power being used for war he also had the bloodlust and made himself judge, jury, and executioner of many sailors who didn't deserve it.

In conclusion it's a really good movie.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
With Soul, I read that historical figure joke less as "Haha they are secretly assholes irl" and more as 22 was being such a pain in the rear end that even mother theresa couldn't deal

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Yeah, (more Soul stuff) it's pretty subtle, especially for a kids' movie, but I read it as "just because you're skilled at something, doesn't mean you can teach for crap" which is true lol. I do kind of wish that and some of the other themes in the movie had been a little more spelled out.

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
Hoping Soul gets its own thread because there's a lot to pick apart there.

I was absolutely digging the opening moments. It didn't feel like Pixar at all, just basically played completely straight and down to earth. It's not that I don't love Pixar, but at this point their shtick has become recognizable and approaching manipulative and was nice to see a fresh take. Then he turned into a blue blob. I actually didn't know this was part of the film because I didn't look up too much about it. I was immediately annoyed by this because, of course, once again the main black character doesn't get to be themselves in their movie. Second, it launched the film straight back into familiar Pixar territory in tone and humor. But, as more time was spent in the "soul dimension" or whatever it was, I really appreciated the art direction, music, and abstract concept of it all. Actually, I felt that it was a bit too abstract - the rules of this soul world aren't exactly made clear.

So right as I had begun to accept the direction taken to this soul dimension, Joe and 22 find themselves hurling back to the real world. I had a brief sigh of relief here, only to quickly retract it when I realized what was going to happen with the cat. So, great, we're back in the real world, but now we're going to deal with the cliche body swap dynamic and "only this one human can understand the animal" antics. Thankfully, these were kept relatively restrained, Yet, with the heavy subject matter that is strongly targeted at adults, and the abstract, high-concept setup, the body-swap/brain-in-animal dynamic felt at odds with everything else.


It seems clear to me, and has for a while, that Pixar wants to branch out into more mature films, and by that I don't mean rated R, but without the caveat of needing to also appeal to kids. There are so many other ways they could have explored Joe's internal struggle while still having him return to his own body and without a talking animal.

This definitely needs another watch for me. When it finished, my initial reaction was to place it just under Inside Out, which I adore. But, after sitting on it a bit, I feel it lacks the emotional gut punch and tight narrative to put it in the same league. Inside Out's "brain world" has a very clear and consistent logic to it which was absent here, and it has a very clear message: being sad is a normal and necessary part of the human experience, and recognizing this is beneficial to coping with depression." In Soul, there doesn't seem to be a clear message. It was going for a somewhat bold statement that we don't have *A* specific purpose, but that felt more like a conclusion they came up with after the fact rather than writing and structuring the film around it.

Oh, I also thought it would have a heavier emphasis on jazz and soul music and was a bit disappointed that it's really only present in the beginning and end of the film.
I did not enjoy Tina Fey as 22. It was one of the rare times where it felt like Pixar chose the voice for name recognition rather than what they can bring to the character.


Overall though it's still very good and worth watching. Great art direction, great music, a few excellent jokes, solid performances. It demonstrates how Pixar remains on a much higher level than basically all other animated films.

SweetMercifulCrap! fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 26, 2020

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



FunkyAl posted:

I have a short animation, that I made, ready for view this Boxing Day.

https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/775794

One week only! May the Force Be With You.

This is rad

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Hawkperson posted:

Yeah, (more Soul stuff) it's pretty subtle, especially for a kids' movie, but I read it as "just because you're skilled at something, doesn't mean you can teach for crap" which is true lol. I do kind of wish that and some of the other themes in the movie had been a little more spelled out.

One of the people they used was Carl Jung, who did teach. I think I saw a few others who definitely were, so if this is the interpretation it's a slam on them for the thing they did do. (One, for example, was Plato.)

e: If someone can grab either of these in HD, for some reason my PC isn't pulling it up in high-quality.





29:17 and 1:12:10 respectively.

Pick fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Dec 26, 2020

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
Any recommendations for Soul like movies

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

madey posted:


We turned the movie off during the credits, was there a post credits scene with 22's reaction to being born a uighur after previewing life on earth in NYC?

yah it's Mulan 2 she machine guns a bunch of PLA it's absolutely insane

BioEnchanted posted:

With Soul, I read that historical figure joke less as "Haha they are secretly assholes irl" and more as 22 was being such a pain in the rear end that even mother theresa couldn't deal

that was literally how they wanted you to read it

also MT sucks rear end

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy

Alan Smithee posted:

Any recommendations for Soul like movies

Inside Out. It’s similarly abstract but better made overall IMO.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
I didn't like Inside Out whatsoever but it's the better version of Soul. They're also extremely similar movies.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

Macaluso posted:

So Soul was pretty good! The movie actually spends quite a bit of time in the real world. The visuals for the afterlife locations are REALLY good. Especially the desert of lost souls and ESPECIALLY the scene at the end when Joe gets trapped in 22's sad lost soul storm. Those visuals were pretty intense and felt like what they might have made hell look like if they had gone there during the movie.

I'm not totally sure how I feel about the ending though. I figured Joe would opt to become a mentor. The afterlife worker letting him have a second chance felt kind of cop outty to me, but maybe I'm putting more thought into the rules into the way the afterlife works than Pixar wanted me to.


The rules seem pretty clear to me. Keep Terry distracted and you can be immortal.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe
First viewing of Soul

I like it. It's not the best, but I'd say it's in the upper half of Pixar films.

The art, music and voices were great (especially the synth-y music as well as the jazz music.... I loved the great before synths).

My biggest qualms have mostly been touched on.
It felt a little... too loosely structured and didn't quite build up to a solid resolution at the end. I totally get the ending sentiment of "love every moment of life" but it felt like they were VERY strongly hinting at the teacher/mentor angle - especially with the trombone student and then.... it felt like a misdirect almost. Not a deal breaker, but just not a neat bow on everything. But like I mention below, it doesn't stop me from maybe placing it above Inside Out. Because while I feel IO is the much more expertly crafted movie... I just like the risks this one takes sometimes.

The art and style of the great before and the transition times (as well as accompanying music) are loving stellar and I wish it leaned on these more. They are *so good.*

The cat body swap poo poo is bad. Like goddamnit. I love Tina Fey with a passion, but what this movie didn't need was a goddamn white savior and this STILL tried to do it. I feel like this segment, which feels incredibly out of place, was some executive bullshit problem solving of a problem that didn't exist late in the game. It just feels tacked on almost and kind of betrays the tone of the rest of the movie.

The music, jazz and great beyond synths were amazing, sound design was fantastic (loved the "make a trade" creepiness) and the physicality and rendering was spot on. I loved the touches of realism given to the musical movements during the Dorothy scenes. Those didn't feel caricatured. They felt real and fast and sweaty like good jazz.

Onward was bad. Like... real bad (I love the sentiment at the end of the moral being the brother needed to really say goodbye but the rest of the movie was terrible). And this one had me, despite my grievances, immediately wanting to watch it again and re-experience things as well as feel like I needed to get a handle on other things. So I think that definitely makes it successful in my book. Almost my entire family stayed attentive the whole time so it clearly had *something* going for it.

Hopefully we get a full exploration of a POC story soon (that doesn't rely on stereotype or cultural mythos).



Alan Smithee posted:


that was literally how they wanted you to read it


Yeah it's just a literal timeline (that is relatable to the viewer) so people can get a sense of how long they'll be there. Anything else is just a bit of projection.

I mean I do think the jokes could have been written better... but it's not a commentary on the historical figures themselves.

Pick posted:

I didn't like Inside Out whatsoever but it's the better version of Soul. They're also extremely similar movies.

I love Inside Out... and it's the better made version of Soul... it's more concise and structured. But I think I might like Soul better. I'll see after the second watch.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

BonoMan posted:


Onward was bad. Like... real bad (I love the sentiment at the end of the moral being the brother needed to really say goodbye but the rest of the movie was terrible). And this one had me, despite my grievances, immediately wanting to watch it again and re-experience things as well as feel like I needed to get a handle on other things. So I think that definitely makes it successful in my book. Almost my entire family stayed attentive the whole time so it clearly had *something* going for it.


I agree, Soul is a big step up from Onward. I'd put it below Inside Out, which frankly I didn't like, but well above Onward, which is a profoundly "Secret Life of Pets 2" level forgettable film with no sense of scale. I was about to say that Onward was a "Sony-esque" film, but Sony's now done some really good film (their visuals have always been stellar, back to Surf's Up, but I tend to think of them as perfunctory in the story department).

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galenanorth
May 19, 2016

one of the things that annoyed me most about Onward was directly repeating the premise of the movie three times (I think) in the beginning, middle, and end. We get it, in the beginning there was magic, and then there were a lot of Flintstones/Jetsons style jokes but with fantasy during an otherwise standard road trip movie

galenanorth fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 27, 2020

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