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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Sir Lemming posted:

Same. What's the opposite of vindication? Where you were unequivocally, factually correct about something for years, but then the facts changed to match the misconception?

Can just say 'Wasn't actually made by Disney'. And you can save face and be more like a human being by appending 'But they sure as hell tried to make it look like it was.'

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Invalid Validation posted:

That surprisingly looks like the movies.

Peter Jackson was open about being inspired by these films, iirc.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I can't believe anyone hasn't seen that before, it's a meme classic. And also probably the most sympathetic and fleshed out treatment LotR media has given the Orcs til maybe Shadows of Mordor.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




nankeen posted:

omg it's a eurasian smaug

i never had much interest in the rankin-bass hobbit, but they're the people who did the last unicorn and ended up forming studio ghibli? i might have to watch it

tolkien adaptations are going to go down in history as being a wellspring of weirdness. i almost went into a rant in gbs about how bakshi (and his friends) were the perfect people to adapt lotr because it's a book about the world war and the descent of a whole world into surrealist red-skied warfare hell, but in the end i thought the information was all better stored safely in my heart. those eastern european hellscapes are going to stick with me though. i really wish he'd been given the money he needed, the character animation would have been just as bizarre but we would have got the full beautiful orc apocalypse of everybody's nightmares

Smaug having visual Asian dragon influence is fitting iirc, since he originally incorporated ideas from them with being intelligent and conversational, where most Western dragons had been depicted as monstrous, brutish animals.

The Jackson movies I remember being massive events that are still pretty influential, aside from being one of the universally recognised meme sources even now it seems like in the long run it got high fantasy adaptations as a popular genre again, with Game of Thrones and now The Witcher. A bit funny how influence goes; it turns out high fantasy works well for prestige television rather than movies, while Harry Potter didn't kick off kids fantasy so much as YA fiction in general, which has more trended towards urban fantasy or post-apocalyptic.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Speaking of 70s sex weird related to animation, R. Crumb is apparently still alive.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Schwarzwald posted:

One point H-Boy makes that I felt was very astute was that Optimus Prime is mostly another forgettable 80s cartoon hero except for the fact that he gets killed in the film. Lion-O, Quicksilver and most of their kind have largely fallen by the wayside, but Optimus Prime sets himself apart from them by having a memorable death.

Funny thing is that it's also set a precedent for Optimus dying (and coming back to life) in almost every Transformers incarnation since. Though I think he was super popular beforehand in any case; he's basically Superman as a giant robot truck, and an unusual case in being a cartoon protagonist who isn't meant to be a kid identification character but a mature and principled leader- basically the perfect dad figure for generations of audiences.


Pick posted:

I actually think the Transformers animated film is a fun, creative ride and succeeds entirely at what it seeks to do.

I thought you meant Transformers Animated for a bit, which is funny because in retrospect it's like a gender swapped Steven Universe, with a little girl and her giant robot dads.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Darth TNT posted:

That pipe is either high as a kite, really smug or giving me a bedroom look.

At least 1 and 3 seem on brand

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Pick posted:

Remember in Toy Story 3 where he's been "re-set" most of the film for lazy Hispanic jokes? And then you're like "oh yeah" because that wasn't memorable really at all, and it just... consumed runtime on purpose... while shelving Buzz because they didn't know what to do with him? And you're like, wow, that's definitely the peak of not knowing what to do with Buzz Lightyear. ... cue Toy Story 4!

Buzz getting reset into thinking he's an action hero toy is a running gag now, also last I checked Hispanic audiences thought it was hilarious. It's basically him going from one culture's action hero stereotype to another.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The_Doctor posted:

I think so, yeah. Because why have your fun kid character when you can have another dour teenage character?

That sounds more like they're trying to make the character more like their Young Justice incarnation, which was pretty popular. (And thus an order of magnitude more popular than anything modern comics do)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The_Doctor posted:

Does Connor not exist anymore?

In comics, who loving knows, and if you don't like the answer check back in six months because DC has a hardon for reboots.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




doomrider7 posted:

We were discussing the idea of a Mighty Max revival on another thread, but this is another show that would be awesome for that.

The fun part is how much the show would lend itself to it.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




doomrider7 posted:

Which of the two? But yeah agree in either case.

I meant Mighty Max.

I had both a Mighty Max (the shark playset) and Polly Pocket as a kid. I'm pretty sure they were compatible.

Reminds me of those Micro Machines playsets that were basically self-contained stories on their own. I think it's out of fashion to make toys on such an easily lost/swallowed scale nowadays though, Lego aside.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I'm sure some CN suit looks at the cost-return ratio for Jonny Test and got dollar signs despite basically any ratings it got was because it was literally 90% of what Cartoon Network showed for years. (Similar to Teen Titans Go now)

It's basically a lovely knockoff of Dexter's Lab, yeah, and pretty much everything people hate about cheap Flash animated cartoons.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Also for some reason they keep on remaking Ben 10. Apparently it sells toys. I suppose it's basically the new generation's Transformers.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The planeteers finally stopped loving around

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




There's kind of a theme with older animation especially, and perhaps Disney in general, that the protagonists get really boring and generic designs while all the creativity (and probably budget) goes into the villains. I'm not sure if it's a marketing thing where the protagonists are supposed to look generic to have broad appeal/not offend anyone, or a budget thing where a less detailed and exaggerated design is cheaper to animate for the character who'll have the most screentime. Or maybe both.

It's a bit like in anime, where the main characters tend to have relatively subdued designs while the villains they go nuts with, though obviously that's not a hard and fast rule. (Is pretty common though that even in shows with a variety of character designs, characters that are meant to be attractive tend to all look pretty much the same, and closest to what the creators think will be most merchandisable)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Macaluso posted:

Balto looks like an off brand Don Bluth movie

Goddamn, I can't unsee it now.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I like that idea, and I can see how it ends up diluted; the protagonists in those shorts still have their own distinct and interesting designs, being more realistic in a world of cartoon critters is its own kind of standing out, while the later examples are just less interesting cartoon critters, since they've lost track of what the point was.

Bone comes to mind, as a work where the protagonists are in a world with a massively different art style from their own- in that case, extremely abstracted comic strip critters in an elaborately illustrated high fantasy world. It's an interesting aesthetic when you do it right, with different character designs contrasted against each other, reflecting an alien nature and their roles. Steven Universe comes to mind, with characters introduced later being of noticeably different designs that reflect their nature in various ways. The different styles make their differences stand out.

It's a pretty common problem that comes to mind from TVtropes threads; people used to conventions forget what they actually do and what they're for. With Balto being the topic the whole Sparkledog fad comes to mind; say what you will, but all those people are generally earnestly trying to make a character design that's unique and memorable, even if they suck at it.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




BioEnchanted posted:

I also find Facilier interesting because every voodoo thing in TV and movies makes the same mistake of evoking the wrong Loa - they always evoke Baron Samedi as the villain/guy who the people look like, and they commonly are making zombies, when Samedi is the complete opposite of that. He's a psychopomp who makes sure the dead STAY dead, all these wannabes that try to ape his design would just piss him off because they are interrupting the rest of his charges. He'd probably be more likely to be on the hero's side (as long as he gets to play with the tosser who's making him look bad, who would be severely punished by him), they'd just need to offer a cigar and rum and he'd be on board.

I got curious and looked up the Loa a couple of years ago. There's also a neat thing with Princess and the Frog in Lottie, aka Charlotte - she is the only important white character and she is named after the loa who represents the idea of the caucasian aristocrat, although the loa Lady Charlotte is 100% french.

Apparently they did quite a bit of research into voodoo, and made sure that they didn't use any authentic symbols or glyphs in the movie, as to not evoke anything unnecessarily. Also, one of the dancing dolls is Lilo's.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The new DuckTales is pretty good too, but Disney's only recently started to actually put effort into TV animation for more than one show at a time again.

I worked at a video store briefly and one think the manager talked about was how stingy Disney always was with video and DVD releases- making their back catalogue so hard to get has been a problem in the long run because their TV cartoons basically vanish into the ether never to be seen again. I suppose they seem to definitely be low priority for Disney, but I think that's a mistake; kids loving LOVE TV cartoons, and when the media refused to age with them they all turned on to anime instead, and now pretty much all the new cartoons are made by huge anime fans.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Pyrotoad posted:

If you watch the Balto cartoon you also have to watch the sequels.

I think I've seen part of one of those, with a lady fox hitting on Balto.

And yes, this franchise has produced a lot of porn.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Acebuckeye13 posted:

Hell there were people openly lusting for the antagonist dude husky in this thread like, three iterations ago.

I mostly blame the voice acting. Same with Renamon.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Ccs posted:

I also remember it being a lot of fun. Many of those shows dealt with adult topics. I remember I learned about the concept of credit card debt from a Disney cartoon episode.

It's also got Patrick Warburton as Buzz.

A surprisingly nuanced drug addiction ep too.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Just have Simon team up with his good friend Isabelle.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Sir Lemming posted:

Just watched Toy Story 4 on Disney+. First impression is, there's always been an undercurrent of existential dread in the series, but they really laid it on thick this time, huh? Kind of a drag. I'm not sure I'll bother showing this one to the kids for a while, even though I'm sure they'll eventually realize it exists.

Existential dread is pretty much the central theme of the entire series, if anything it's impressive that they actually manage to stick to it through the whole thing.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




If Smash Bros is any indication, Wolf is almost canonically a leather daddy.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Literally the only places that still care about furries are SA and 4chan, and the latter is barely concealed hatred of queer people.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I mean, it was pretty clear from the very first impressions that it's basically the standard family movie script of the wacky special creature dropped into the mundane world, going back to ET at the very least.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Captain Invictus posted:

Not the dumb blue sonic-sized metal sonic, but the giant bare metal, covered in rivets one

That ones Silver Sonic. I like in the comics where Sonic uses it as makeshift armour to fight an amped up Robotnik.

Thought the movie was actually pretty good- unambitious, sure, but probably better for it. Also the closest thing to an origin story Sonic has ever gotten. As expected, Robotnik is the best part.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Funny thing is that the whole alliance predictably falls apart, because it's Eggman who is the proper sociopath of the duo.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




BioEnchanted posted:

Not surprising, Wily wants world domination, a relatively sensible goal. Eggman's always had ridiculous bullshit that he tries to do like awakening lovecraftian monsters to use their power to build a murderous theme park to kill a magic hedgehog. Wily wants something he can have and rule over, Eggman wants something dead. Wily's evil is constructive and in some ways occasionally subtle (like that one game where he frames Dr Light for building the evil robots) Eggman is purely destructive.

In that specific case, it's also that the comics take on Wily is basically him wanting to prove himself superior to Dr Light and still having a twisted sort of friendship with him, just he considers world domination to be the stakes of their game, while Eggman just legit doesn't care what anyone thinks of him- in that they have any ability to think at all- and him trying to toss a captive Dr Light out the airlock is the last straw for Wily.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Also, Sonic is basically just Dewey Duck.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Yeah, Sonic being impulsive and immature feels like a workable and natural take on the character. Whenever he's allowed to have a personality he's generally an entertaining jerk, and sometimes basically Bugs Bunny (plus Road Runner) but they actually lean into how he's canonically supposed to be a teenager. You can kinda see this take on Sonic growing into the carefree wanderer who makes friends wherever he goes and has a sense of responsibility even though he usually avoids it whenever possible.

Interestingly they seem to be leaning into an occasionally implied idea in some material that humans in the Sonic-verse are technologically advanced but almost entirely lacking in magic, which other species take for granted (like the rings they use as portals) and Robotnik is uniquely talented but working off probably the most advanced active technological base in the setting. Sonic the Comic has a full on alien invasion where the aliens are humans.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The Sonic movie's weird in that it's actually a relatively new thing for the franchise, out of long-forgotten non-canon comics: an origin story for both Sonic and Robotnik. Even the fairly cursory details about their childhood and backgrounds are a lot more than pretty much any previous material, and inform their characterisation startlingly well. Sonic is a very social being who's been heavily isolated, and Robotnik a near-sociopathic genius with a terminal case of Smartest Person In The Room syndrome who is barely tolerated as a US government asset because anything you point him at tends to stop being a problem very quickly.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




BioEnchanted posted:

Amusingly in my showing the thing that got the biggest audience reaction was Robotnik shaving his head with a sharp rock, the whole audience audibly winced at that.

I think that's supposed to be a piece of metal from his aircraft.

The_Doctor posted:

I actually thought the ‘The next planet will be all mushrooms, but mushrooms suck’ was a fun dig at Mario.

The drawing on the world map (just realised, ha, it has a world map) kinda clearly indicates it's meant to be a reference to Mushroom Hill Zone.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




BioEnchanted posted:

The whole thing kind of reminded me of Norse mythology to be honest. Sonic ended up in Midgard after fleeing Alfheim, and Robotnik ended up in what he will make into Jotunheim.

I was getting some vibes it was doing Yggdrasil better than the Thor movies. And some interesting implications that compared to other worlds, Earth is mystically deficient but technologically advanced.

Does anyone have a screenshot of Sonic's map?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Pick posted:

He's goddamn 69 years old, and will be 70 by the time he's done with 2021. He's probably just loving retiring, man.

People don't seem to do that anymore.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Even early on the Scooby Doo movies and spinoffs tend to do whatever the gently caress they want, and there's even a theme of them encountering the genuine supernatural, sometimes with some fake outs. There's at least one case where the genuine supernatural creatures are actually friendly while the fake ones are dangerous.

Not even counting the crossover with Supernatural. (Which may surprise some people as a major point is that Mystery Inc are completely surprised by encountering the genuine supernatural, as well as cartoon physics becoming more realistic, but makes sense when you realise the episode has the Supernatural characters literally dropped into a first series episode)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I'm p sure the only people interested in becoming animators who aren't into anime are boomer brained millennial nazis who aspire to be clones of John K

Also, since when the hell is 'characters with basic personality traits instead of personalities' something exclusive to anime

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I mean it's either that or the Newgrounds flash cartoon people, but I think Adult Swim already went through that phase.

And the alternative that's just coming into fashion is full blown furries.

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