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Codependent Poster
Oct 20, 2003




As much as people talk about that scene, I think the follow up is so much better.

"We're leaving!"

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Laughing Zealot
Oct 10, 2012



Codependent Poster posted:

As much as people talk about that scene, I think the follow up is so much better.

"We're leaving!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YObV6i_Yc#t=47s

The way Fishburne delivers it is perfect.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!



Mierenneuker posted:

Hmm...


I have changed my opinion. I guess it is possible to go too far down the rabbit hole.

Ya know what, that can just stay lost.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017



That's definitely something best left to the imagination.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


sounds like what he's going to do to the Monster Hunter franchise AM I RITE

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

They smelled of pubs, and Wormwood Scrubs, and too many right-wing meetings.

So I twatted them with a magic yo-yo. Because, hell, why not?


Somewhere, Eli Roth has the sudden urge to remake Event Horizon.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



Payndz posted:

Somewhere, Eli Roth has the sudden urge to remake Event Horizon.

Randy Pitchford will be somehow to blame when Roth inexplicably includes the scene in his Borderlands movie.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Yams Fan

I really should revisit Event Horizon. I saw it in theaters and didn't like it at the time

On the other hand, I have no desire to ever see The Fifth Element again, and no one will ever convince me it's good.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

Iron Crowned posted:

I really should revisit Event Horizon. I saw it in theaters and didn't like it at the time

On the other hand, I have no desire to ever see The Fifth Element again, and no one will ever convince me it's good.

Agreed and agreed.

Evenet Horizon might just be a trashy Lovecraftian B movie, but it commits and does it well. The Fifth Element seems like the product of a fervid horny teenager and I don't understand the praise it gets, except perhaps for capturing the weird French SF look like Mobius and Bilal.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Yeah, I watched Event Horizon myself for the first time a few months ago. It's definitely got heart and balls, the main problem is that they have been left on the counter with all the other organs so it gets a bit extreme

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Mierenneuker posted:

Hmm...


I have changed my opinion. I guess it is possible to go too far down the rabbit hole.

But for me, it was Tuesday.

I rewatch Event Horizon almost yearly. Fishburne and Neill are MVPs but the rest of the cast is really solid too, and it's a lot of fun how the ghost house atmosphere sets expectations for, well, some ghost poo poo, and then BOOM surprise sex orgy from hell.

Grendels Dad fucked around with this message at 13:00 on May 22, 2020

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


The Saddest Rhino posted:

i watched 6 Underground in the background while doing work but I don't really think you can call it a satire when it actually casts the "white/Western saviours doing CIA tactics in deposing a brown nation leader and installing their own preferred nicer guy" in a good light

If a work ends by straight-up telling you “thing is bad”, then it isn’t a satire. Even something as blandly didactic as 1984 ends with Winston victorious, happy, and full of love. Is ultrastalinism therefore good? How about eating Irish babies?

6 Underground has lots of good jokes at the expense of the premise (which is based on multiple references to Suicide Squad), like that the protagonists don’t really do anything. The population of the country mostly just spontaneously rises up, making the big action setpieces purely gratuitous. Also, the central joke of the film is that Ryan Gosling talks big about giving up their lives in service of the people but is revealed at the end to be a deadbeat dad who faked his death to escape the boredom of fatherhood. Is that good?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

The Fifth Element rules what are you people on.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

Ask me about my dream Frasier episode where Frasier and Bulldog oil their heads and then rub them together. It's definitely not a fetish of mine, I swear!

Event Horizon is the first movie I bought on the amazing futuristic format of DVD. It's good in so many ways and still holds up.

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


BioEnchanted posted:

An amusing anecdote with event horizon was that slowbeef was watching the movie at some point and his daughter walked in, so he paused it, but it happened to be during that scene, which in the final movie only appears in brief flashes so you can barely see anything - however due to the fact that he panic paused it it paused on one of those horrors, and he just kept trying and it just kept showing some new awful thing as he tried to get his daughter out. He mentioned it on a stream.

Are you thinking of James Rolfe? Or did the same thing happen to two people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fcTdHZnVU#t=515s

ALFbrot
Apr 17, 2002


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

If a work ends by straight-up telling you “thing is bad”, then it isn’t a satire. Even something as blandly didactic as 1984 ends with Winston victorious, happy, and full of love. Is ultrastalinism therefore good? How about eating Irish babies?

6 Underground has lots of good jokes at the expense of the premise (which is based on multiple references to Suicide Squad), like that the protagonists don’t really do anything. The population of the country mostly just spontaneously rises up, making the big action setpieces purely gratuitous. Also, the central joke of the film is that Ryan Gosling talks big about giving up their lives in service of the people but is revealed at the end to be a deadbeat dad who faked his death to escape the boredom of fatherhood. Is that good?

SMG watches movies on such a different level than everyone else, he found a previously unknown Ryan Gosling appearance in 6 Underground

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


Must be the electrical infetterence

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



It isn't that shocking that the poster who "watched 6 Underground in the background while doing work" missed the movie deflating its own protagonists. Turns out you need to watch a movie to watch a movie.

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007
no neckbeard, though.



Nap Ghost

ALFbrot posted:

SMG watches movies on such a different level than everyone else, he found a previously unknown Ryan Gosling appearance in 6 Underground

Will SMG:

1) ignore this petty error
2) acknowledge the error in a dismissive way
3) go super saiyan 2 on death of the author and declare "death of the actor", where the actual identity of actors on screen in a film is up to viewer interpretation.

ALFbrot
Apr 17, 2002


the satire of him identifying Ryan Reynolds as Ryan Gosling would not be satire if he acknowledged it

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



Messing up actors' names is a running gag with him. Not a good one, mind you. But it's not an "error," except perhaps in comedic judgment.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Action Jacktion posted:

Are you thinking of James Rolfe? Or did the same thing happen to two people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fcTdHZnVU#t=515s

Yeah, I misremembered the anecdote's source. Whoops. It was James.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017



Sir Kodiak posted:

Messing up actors' names is a running gag with him. Not a good one, mind you. But it's not an "error," except perhaps in comedic judgment.

My favourite is Bateman as Batman, though I do subscribe to the thesis that Bateman is what you get when Bruce Wayne's parents aren't murdered.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


I have never messed up an actor’s name ever in my life, and I sentence SMG to the gulags.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Crook County

Ryan Gosling is my favorite Captain America.

2nd favorite is Dan Stevens.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

ruddiger posted:

Ryan Gosling is my favorite Captain America.

2nd favorite is Dan Stevens.

this guy gets it

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Codependent Poster posted:

As much as people talk about that scene, I think the follow up is so much better.

"We're leaving!"

That scene was ruined for me in a thread here maybe 10+ years ago. Goons were mixing BGM in movie clips around and changed the scene's screams to 'The Little Spanish Tree' just insanely ridiculous and I loved it.

Codependent Poster
Oct 20, 2003




Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

That scene was ruined for me in a thread here maybe 10+ years ago. Goons were mixing BGM in movie clips around and changed the scene's screams to 'The Little Spanish Tree' just insanely ridiculous and I loved it.

The Star Citizen thread produced this gem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AJ9d6A2Yk

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible




nonathlon posted:

Agreed and agreed.
The Fifth Element seems like the product of a fervid horny teenager and I don't understand the praise it gets,

You don't know how close you are; Besson came up with the story when he was a teen.

ChickenMedium
Sep 2, 2001
Forum Veteran And Professor Emeritus of Condiment Studies

Davros1 posted:

You don't know how close you are; Besson came up with the story when he was a teen.

And he was still in teens when he directed it

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007
GW BRAINWORMS CREW OFFICIAL HYPE MAN

College Slice

Something something he's only happy when he's in teens.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
ASK ME ABOUT MY SELF-PUBLISHED WARHAMMER FANFICTION AND MY KNIFE COLLECTION


ChickenMedium posted:

And he was still in teens when he directed it

You should feel bad about this. It's clever, but you should still feel bad.

Come And See
Sep 15, 2008

We're all awash in a sea of blood, and the least we can do is wave to each other.

When Bay's movies expose the gross, seedy underbelly of American culture it's wrong to assume he's condemning it.

Michael Bay isn't a satirist, he's a fetishist.

The Autobots are murderous, imperialist psychopaths. But that's not a bad thing. That's Bay's ideal type of hero. (He loves soldiers and cops.)

Pain And Gain confesses to the accusations of Occupy Wallstreet... and stands firmly with the 1%. The rich deserve to be rich, and the poor deserve to be poor. (Ed Harris, the film's voice of reason, says this much of Tony Shalhoub's character and the film rewrites history so that the latter isn't guilty of scamming Medicare.)

Like a libertarian James Joyce, Michael Bay loves America's farts.

Doctor Zaius
Jul 30, 2010

I say.


If satire only reads as satire to people who are already on board with capitalism being a trash fire then I don't know if it's very useful as satire, intentional or unintentional. Like, obv this is an issue all satire has to deal with to some degree, there are people who think starship troopers is an unironic ooh-ra go military film, but I feel like 'the transformers movies are secretly scathing leftist takedowns of the american military-industrial complex' is a take that is pretty much exclusive to this subforum.

e: like does going 'see, optimus prime is totally a sendup of jingoist warmongers' really accomplish anything except make you feel good?

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019



Come And See posted:

When Bay's movies expose the gross, seedy underbelly of American culture it's wrong to assume he's condemning it.

Michael Bay isn't a satirist, he's a fetishist.

The Autobots are murderous, imperialist psychopaths. But that's not a bad thing. That's Bay's ideal type of hero. (He loves soldiers and cops.)

Pain And Gain confesses to the accusations of Occupy Wallstreet... and stands firmly with the 1%. The rich deserve to be rich, and the poor deserve to be poor. (Ed Harris, the film's voice of reason, says this much of Tony Shalhoub's character and the film rewrites history so that the latter isn't guilty of scamming Medicare.)

Like a libertarian James Joyce, Michael Bay loves America's farts.

Recently watched 6 Underground because why not and yikes. Just amazing fan worship of foreign intervention (it will end well) and slammin’ driving (no one got hurt) and just complete disregard for the human condition. 6/10

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017



Come And See posted:

Pain And Gain confesses to the accusations of Occupy Wallstreet... and stands firmly with the 1%. The rich deserve to be rich, and the poor deserve to be poor. (Ed Harris, the film's voice of reason, says this much of Tony Shalhoub's character and the film rewrites history so that the latter isn't guilty of scamming Medicare.)

This is entirely incorrect and a complete misreading of the entire movie, to the point that it is basically lying about the direct text of the film, regardless of the subtext. Like you have to be directly ignoring the literal words coming out of Mark Wahlberg's mouth in the opening 5 minutes of the film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA64dwSFzic#t=158s
"If you're willing to do work, you can have everything. That's what makes the US of A great." -Marky Mark @ ~3:05, and he doubles down on this more and more as it goes on.

None of the poo poo the main characters were doing had anything to do with Occupy or the 1%. It was entirely for selfish motivations and personal gain, hence why after they rip off Tony's character, they wind up in the wealthy Miami suburbs and are driving fast cars and running self-defense seminars.

The main character, Mark Wahlberg, (antagionist, really) constantly repeats typical American motivational self-improvement idioms, and him and his buddies are completely cartoonish bodybuilder stereotypes that are constantly doing ridiculously evil poo poo for the sole purpose of making money for themselves. There's nothing to do with revolution or overthrowing the man. They are the villains of the movie, hook line and sinker, and it screams it to your face when The Rock is literally grilling the deceased flesh of one of their victims. The whole movie lampoons this ridiculous absurdities they take this rugged individualist mentality, and just because it follows the 3 main villains, does not somehow mean they are the heroes of the film.

They are entirely villainous characters that happen to be the focus of the camera, and the camera constantly ridicules them and their deranged attempts at fame and fortune so they can snort cocaine and live the high life of the American bourgeoisie. Pain & Gain lampoons the entire mentality and reveals it to all be nothing but a complete lie we tell ourselves, with the ideology taken to it's natural end - outright murder, in the "dog eat dog world" that makes the US of A great.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


^^^^^
Pain & Gain also has a ‘meta’ aspect where it satirizes the rubberneck appeal of these “true crime” films, where we live vicariously through the violent acts of these “himbos”, with a fig leaf of morality at the end. Order is restored because they got the death penalty! Lol!

Doctor Zaius posted:

If satire only reads as satire to people who are already on board with capitalism being a trash fire then I don't know if it's very useful as satire, intentional or unintentional.

Again, that’s a misunderstanding of what satire is. As with the previous guy, you’re basically defining satire as a work that successfully triggers epiphanies in “stupid people”. And that’s a bad definition, for a variety of reasons:

1) It’s a definition that, by your own admission, excludes basically every work typically classified as satire.

2) It allows “the stupid people” to determine what art means, ceding truth to them. So, when presented with a work that can be read as satire, you ask “how would the stupidest possible person read this”, and that fantasy overrides your own ability to read. (Which leads back to problem #1).

3) These “stupid people” don’t actually exist. The figure of the orthodox Bay fan who watches 6 Underground and says “hell yeah! I want to abandon my kid!”, or champions Transformers: The Last Knight as a visionary work of neofeudal utopianism, is your imagination.

Anyways, the “point” of satire is precisely what you describe as its failure: these movies are for me. The act of reading films as satire is an act of appropriation. If I take The Dark Knight Rises and call Bat-Man a dumbassed liberal, using his character and the overall narrative as illustrative of the political/ethical/whatever failings of liberal capitalism, it’s very effective.

Like, try pointing out to a Batfan that Bat-Man kills people. He uses deadly force constantly, and there are dozens of instances of him unambiguously killing people across all media, but people will come up with the most incredible rationalizations for it.

The goal is not to change minds, but to put people in the position of having to defend the indefensible - weakening them, opening them up to ridicule. Watchmen got many liberals to express support for the theoretical possibility of a good genocide. What Bay does is not different.

SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 22:48 on May 24, 2020

Doctor Zaius
Jul 30, 2010

I say.


So the entire point of film, both in the watching and interpretation, is for the goal of posting ridiculous takes on the internet so you can 'win' arguments?

e: Also I guarantee you, the unironic bayformers fan exists.

e2: This I think treats media as a sort of immaculate, sovereign object. Media cannot fail, it can only be failed by bad interpretation. If something seems bad on initial viewing, then you simply haven't been creative enough with your reading of it, because bad media is an oxymoron.

e3: If we accept 'enlightenment', changing minds, whatever you want to call it as a fantasy, what's the point of making people defend the indefensible beyond internet victory points?

Doctor Zaius fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 24, 2020

Doctor Zaius
Jul 30, 2010

I say.


Film criticism is the process by which the poster attempts apotheosis.

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Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Taintrunner posted:

completely cartoonish bodybuilder stereotypes that are constantly doing ridiculously evil poo poo for the sole purpose of making money for themselves.

I think this is actually a little bit off the mark.

Each of the Sun Gym Gang (Kershaw and DuBois as well) embody some conception of the American dream. Lugo wants to be the community leader. He wants a big house that he takes care of with his fancy lawnmower. He wants to be the neighborhood's paterfamilias, teaching the boys how to be men and protecting the women from sexual assault. Doorbal wants the domestic life. He uses his money to get married and buy his own house. Doyle represents two types at different times. First he's the recovered criminal, who found salvation through religion. Then he's the hyper-consumer, living in constant, absolute indulgence. They of course target Kerhsaw, the immigrant-made-good, who Lugo presents as having wealth that they (by virtue of their masculinity) properly deserve.

You add to this mix the various impassioned speeches Lugo gives in front of the American flag, and you get that the Sun Gym Gang aren't merely dumb gasheads that are out for themselves, but also specifically representations of an American cult of materialistic masculinity.

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