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GEORGE W BUSHI
Jul 1, 2012



Shingo is from the same generation as Naito. They (and BUSHI) have been friends since they were in high school.

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JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Lid posted:

Part of the reason im all in on Shingo is i think they too have realised its time to move from Okada

hahahaHahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Lid posted:

The era of Okada, Tanahashi and to a lesser extent Naito is over, its time for Shingo, Hiromu, Ibushi and i guess Ospreay.

I know you're not specifically talking about age, but it is amusing that the old guard is Okada at 32 while Shingo at 37 and Ibushi at 38 are the new blood rising.

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


Okada has been taking it easy during the NJ Cup and KOPW. Looking forward to Wrestling God Okada returning.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Shingo is from the same generation as Naito. They (and BUSHI) have been friends since they were in high school.

Dont care Naito looks like he's made of mashed potatoes and Shingo looks like hes made of premium rib eye.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






Seams posted:

Okada has been taking it easy during the NJ Cup and KOPW. Looking forward to Wrestling God Okada returning.

Another cobra clutch Krandy?

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


Imagine the pop when Okada wins the 2020 G1 Climax with the world-famous money clip.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

Lid posted:

Part of the reason im all in on Shingo is i think they too have realised its time to move from Okada and hes one of the best chances for a Japanese torch bearer into the future. Ibushi is there too but i just like believing in new blood rising. The era of Okada, Tanahashi and to a lesser extent Naito is over, its time for Shingo, Hiromu, Ibushi and i guess Ospreay.

I know Jay White exists but gently caress Jay White.

Okada is 32 years old so dude has at least another decade in him, probably two given that he wrestles a relatively safe style. And in general the idea that Gedo would just kill his golden goose is ridiculous. Okada is still a massive draw only losing to Naito, and I strongly suspect that Naito doesn't even have another decade in him.

Also Shingo and Ibushi are five and six years older than him respectively.

GEORGE W BUSHI
Jul 1, 2012



Seams posted:

Imagine the pop when Okada wins the 2020 G1 Climax with the world-famous money clip.

SANADA finally passes out after being in the Money Clip for ten minutes after Okada successfully reverses a ten minute long Skull End

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

Then again Ibushi is an immortal wrestling god who will apparently keep going for another hundred years, so they have plenty of time to make him the face of the company yet.

Neodoomium
Jun 20, 2001

You are now hearing this
noise in your head.





GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

My prediction - Yujiro has generally well received matches with Ishii, Shingo, Ospreay (maybe), Ibushi and Taichi (they are all each of those individuals' least good matches in the tournament but are all watchable at worst) and people start accepting that Okada isn't the same as he was in 2017.

Much like Tanahashi he's been working through a hosed up knee for a while. I assumed this summer was them letting him heal up.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

SANADA finally passes out after being in the Money Clip for ten minutes after Okada successfully reverses a ten minute long Skull End

The finals will end with Okada having EVIL in the Money Clip forever, run ins by every member of the bullet club while red shoes impotently tries to restore order before Yujiro hits the ring, hits Okada with the trophy, and EVIL hits a single Everything Is Evil and wins.

The match is 55 minutes.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Lid posted:

The finals will end with Okada having EVIL in the Money Clip forever, run ins by every member of the bullet club while red shoes impotently tries to restore order before Yujiro hits the ring, hits Okada with the trophy, and EVIL hits a single Everything Is Evil and wins.

The match is 55 minutes.

are you marathoning tna weekly ppvs or something

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






https://mobile.twitter.com/IMPACTWR...192269667442688

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator




Lol at the people believing that Kauzchika freaking Okada of all people is no longer a great wrestler

Neodoomium
Jun 20, 2001

You are now hearing this
noise in your head.





The part about Red Shoes completely failing to do any aspect of his job is accurate

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

I finally had time to finish Summer Struggle. I enjoyed it a lot. Lots of good matches under a beautiful backdrop of a sundown. I also liked the main event; it's simple booking but all the cheating on the recent shows really made it feel good when Naito overcame it.

Aesculus
Mar 22, 2013



Lid posted:

The finals will end with Okada having EVIL in the Money Clip forever, run ins by every member of the bullet club while red shoes impotently tries to restore order before Yujiro hits the ring, hits Okada with the trophy, and EVIL hits a single Everything Is Evil and wins.

The match is 55 minutes.

And then Jado finally hits the entrance ramp, having left the BC locker room at the start of the match

Ziggy Tzardust
Apr 7, 2006


CHaKKaWaKka posted:

I fell into a Tomohiro Ishii sized hole following the posting of his match with Okada and I have somehow found my way back with one of the best 12 minute matches I have ever seen. It features the corn dog/fire hydrant hybrid Big Tom Ishii vs Katsuyori Shibata from the G1 Climax 2013. Before the match even starts the crowd knows these two are about to get stupid. Big Tom was always good. It's only 12 minutes long, you owe it to the Stone Pitbull to watch this match in its entirety. Thank you.

https://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00211_2_5

It legit rules and it's even better when you take Shibatas journey into account. He was still considered a bit of a traitor at this point because he left NJPW in the mid 00s when NJPW were in real trouble

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

I thought the redtext someone dumped on you was in bad taste and a bit much so here's a corgi instead.

Rarity posted:

Lol at the people believing that Kauzchika freaking Okada of all people is no longer a great wrestler

It's not that he's not still great but he's been on top doing a brutal style for almost a decade. He will have a time on top comparative to Misawa and Kobashi more than Sugiura and Mochizuki.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

forkboy84 posted:

It's not that he's not still great but he's been on top doing a brutal style for almost a decade. He will have a time on top comparative to Misawa and Kobashi more than Sugiura and Mochizuki.

What exactly is brutal about his style? Sure, he's taken a bunch of gnarly bumps over the years, but the most risky move he himself does is a freaking elbow drop.

E: Also both Misawa and Kobashi were on top for 20-25 years, so even by your own logic Okada still has a long time left in him.

Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Sep 14, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


In 5-6 years, Okada is gonna reach the START of his prime wrestling years

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

I thought the redtext someone dumped on you was in bad taste and a bit much so here's a corgi instead.

Cerebral Bore posted:

What exactly is brutal about his style? Sure, he's taken a bunch of gnarly bumps over the years, but the most risky move he himself does is a freaking elbow drop.

E: Also both Misawa and Kobashi were on top for 20-25 years, so even by your own logic Okada still has a long time left in him.

It's not quite as simple as that though. Kobashi started training in '87 & first wrestled in '88. He's in his first #1 contender match in 1993 but you can argue he didn't really become a top guy until 1994 where he gets his first Triple Crown shot & also comes in on 17 points in the CC, tying with Taue (he was 5 points back on Taue the previous year). He doesn't win the Triple Crown until 1996 but we'll go from '94. By the NOAH split in 2000 his knees were already ruined. He missed 13 months from December '00, came back in Feb '02 & then needed 5 more months off. Obviously after that he goes on to be the best wrestler in the world with a legendary title run. Even ignoring his cancer as a freak occurrence, he returned in December 2007 after another 18 months on the sidelines, was back for 7 months before needing surgery on his arms that kept out for 6 more months. Another 9 months of wrestling & then he suffered nerve damage in his right arm & that was more or less his career done, though not quite. Clearly when he was healthy Kobashi was still Kenta Kobashi, as shown by that GHC HW title run in the middle of the decade that defines that championship. But he was not healthy a lot. Almost half the 2000s. So his career as a top guy is a lot closer to 15 years than 25.

As for Misawa, think we can all agree his coming as a top star was the June 1990 Budokan win over Jumbo. And he was basically the top guy until his death. So sure, 20 years. But the last 5 years (minimum) Misawa should've been like 90s Giant Baba, opening 6 man tag guy, but couldn't be because Kobashi was out & no one else could carry the company. And he was doing that poo poo even before he quit All Japan. To quote Wikipedia on the '98 CC: "Misawa entered the 1998 Champion Carnival, and proceeded to the finals with eight wins, three draws against Akiyama, Hansen, and Kawada, and one loss to Taue. This was despite various neck and back injuries, a broken finger, and a broken left kneecap, the latter of which was suffered during a match on April 6 against Ace. Despite this, and against a doctor's recommendation to perform surgery and take six weeks off, Misawa continued to work, and won the Champion Carnival for the second and final time". One of the great tragedies is that Misawa knew he was done & was originally planning to retire in 2007 but the Kobashi cancer meant he needed to keep working, especially as the transition of KENTA & Marufuji to Heavyweights just wasn't accepted. God I'm depressed now.

As for what is brutal about his style, well, it is the bumps. As far as taking gnarly bumps go current New Japan has a lot of similarities with late 90s All Japan, only I expect if you crunched the numbers the matches go a little longer now (not that AJPW didn't do their share of 60 minute broadways). Obviously Kaz isn't the biggest offender when it comes to head & neck bumps (hello Tetsuya & Kota), he does his share. Hope I'm wrong but 10 years at the level Okada has been at, doing what he's done, with the consistency he's done it, takes a toll is all I'm saying. Not saying he's done yet either.

forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Sep 14, 2020

Price Check
Oct 9, 2012


Okada was in the best match of the year 8 months ago. Then he carried Naito to a 5 star match the following night. I don't think he's hit the Rainmaker since New Japan came back from the shutdown. When he does it will be glorious - and that's probably by design. The last few times Okada has lost the title they've done a similar wayward Okada storyline. He will be fine.

extradite THIS!
Mar 8, 2010






Balloon-swinging, Scooby Dooby Doo-yelling Weirdokada turned it up in the G1 too and I expect Stuck In Endless Feud With Yujiro and Gedo Okada to do the same

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator




Okada started the year with bangers against Ibushi, Naito and Taichi. It's ridiculous to think 4 months of rest turned him into a poo poo wrestler. Dude has been taking it easy on purpose because his character is in the middle of a months long hissy fit and people are falling for it hook line and sinker.

Schneider Heim
Oct 17, 2012


I think Okada has always bumped extremely well (and safe compared to the worst offenders) in a way that makes his opponent look great. His singles matches are a joy to see because while he might be the best wrestler in the world he doesn't squash his opponent and brings out a great match from them (except Yujiro maybe). I think of all people he could fool around or take it easy while still being leagues above the average worker. I wouldn't mind him winning, but I think keeping him away from the title a bit longer would be good for him and the company.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


Okada's very rarely on the end of a bump where I flinch in real life. Some of Taichi's suplexes to him have made me gasp, but that's probably from their height difference... The angle looks brutal as hell.

Compare to Ibushi, who, near as I can tell, is only alive because of Wile E. Coyote physics. He hasn't noticed his internal decapitation, therefore he's fine until it naturally heals.

GEORGE W BUSHI
Jul 1, 2012



Rarity posted:

Okada started the year with bangers against Ibushi, Naito and Taichi. It's ridiculous to think 4 months of rest turned him into a poo poo wrestler. Dude has been taking it easy on purpose because his character is in the middle of a months long hissy fit and people are falling for it hook line and sinker.

Was he also in the middle of a hissy fit throughout the whole of 2019? Because that was a really rough year for the Rainmaker and I don't know that three great matches with the three best wrestlers on the roster is a sign of a big turnaround.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

forkboy84 posted:

It's not quite as simple as that though. Kobashi started training in '87 & first wrestled in '88. He's in his first #1 contender match in 1993 but you can argue he didn't really become a top guy until 1994 where he gets his first Triple Crown shot & also comes in on 17 points in the CC, tying with Taue (he was 5 points back on Taue the previous year). He doesn't win the Triple Crown until 1996 but we'll go from '94. By the NOAH split in 2000 his knees were already ruined. He missed 13 months from December '00, came back in Feb '02 & then needed 5 more months off. Obviously after that he goes on to be the best wrestler in the world with a legendary title run. Even ignoring his cancer as a freak occurrence, he returned in December 2007 after another 18 months on the sidelines, was back for 7 months before needing surgery on his arms that kept out for 6 more months. Another 9 months of wrestling & then he suffered nerve damage in his right arm & that was more or less his career done, though not quite. Clearly when he was healthy Kobashi was still Kenta Kobashi, as shown by that GHC HW title run in the middle of the decade that defines that championship. But he was not healthy a lot. Almost half the 2000s. So his career as a top guy is a lot closer to 15 years than 25.

As for Misawa, think we can all agree his coming as a top star was the June 1990 Budokan win over Jumbo. And he was basically the top guy until his death. So sure, 20 years. But the last 5 years (minimum) Misawa should've been like 90s Giant Baba, opening 6 man tag guy, but couldn't be because Kobashi was out & no one else could carry the company. And he was doing that poo poo even before he quit All Japan. To quote Wikipedia on the '98 CC: "Misawa entered the 1998 Champion Carnival, and proceeded to the finals with eight wins, three draws against Akiyama, Hansen, and Kawada, and one loss to Taue. This was despite various neck and back injuries, a broken finger, and a broken left kneecap, the latter of which was suffered during a match on April 6 against Ace. Despite this, and against a doctor's recommendation to perform surgery and take six weeks off, Misawa continued to work, and won the Champion Carnival for the second and final time". One of the great tragedies is that Misawa knew he was done & was originally planning to retire in 2007 but the Kobashi cancer meant he needed to keep working, especially as the transition of KENTA & Marufuji to Heavyweights just wasn't accepted. God I'm depressed now.

As for what is brutal about his style, well, it is the bumps. As far as taking gnarly bumps go current New Japan has a lot of similarities with late 90s All Japan, only I expect if you crunched the numbers the matches go a little longer now (not that AJPW didn't do their share of 60 minute broadways). Obviously Kaz isn't the biggest offender when it comes to head & neck bumps (hello Tetsuya & Kota), he does his share. Hope I'm wrong but 10 years at the level Okada has been at, doing what he's done, with the consistency he's done it, takes a toll is all I'm saying. Not saying he's done yet either.

Well this is an interesting history lesson, but New Japan today isn't NOAH in the oughts as they have a roster so ridiculously stacked that Okada could literally take a year off if he had to and other guys could easily carry the promotion in the meantime. So there is no need for him to wreck his body and he's so good that I don't think taking the occasional sick bump will wreck it either, barring some freak accident.

Also Okada seems to have scaled down the risky stuff. Like, when was the last time that Okada took a non-routine bump? Last time I can remember was at WK.

KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008



Greatest wrestler in the world is wrestling a bad and boring style on purpose is a real galaxy brain decision on his part

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

Personally I think Okada has earned the right to take it easy for a while.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



he's probably just very sensitive about acting like the exact same guy without the title like washed up tanahashi

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

I thought the redtext someone dumped on you was in bad taste and a bit much so here's a corgi instead.

Cerebral Bore posted:

Well this is an interesting history lesson
Okada aside, the All Japan/NOAH style was absolutely brutal & just got into a scary cycle of needing to go further & further & there have been times I've got that vibe from New Japan but it's more stuff like Naito Ibushi Dominion last year than anything involving Skipper. I'm real conflicted because I thought NOAH was amazing at that point & 90s All Japan is rightly looked back as a high point in-ring but clearly in hindsight we know it was extremely rough on the body. And hell, I was well into that ludicrous Ibushi Naito match once I got over the fact that "oh my god he must be concussed"

Anyway, I wasn't trying to argue Okada is done today more just that I think it's possible this recent output could be him taking it easy in these unimportant matches because he can feel where his body is, kind of like Naito saves himself and really cruises by outside the big times. Nothing wrong with that, it's smart, knowing your limits.

forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Sep 14, 2020

Spuckuk
Aug 11, 2009

Being a bastard works



CHaKKaWaKka posted:

I fell into a Tomohiro Ishii sized hole following the posting of his match with Okada and I have somehow found my way back with one of the best 12 minute matches I have ever seen. It features the corn dog/fire hydrant hybrid Big Tom Ishii vs Katsuyori Shibata from the G1 Climax 2013. Before the match even starts the crowd knows these two are about to get stupid. Big Tom was always good. It's only 12 minutes long, you owe it to the Stone Pitbull to watch this match in its entirety. Thank you.

https://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00211_2_5

Absolutely amazing short match. Big Tams did and does have some of the best selling and timing in the world.

take the moon
Feb 12, 2011




Rarity posted:

Feeling a lot better about betting the farm on SANADA now

i literally wasnt paying attention to anyone elses picks when i bet half my farm on him. why is he so hype lol. he does a backflip and a bear hug

whatever

extradite THIS!
Mar 8, 2010






take the moon posted:

i literally wasnt paying attention to anyone elses picks when i bet half my farm on him. why is he so hype lol. he does a backflip and a bear hug

whatever

Heís cool and handsome

Unfortunately the former diminishes in my eyes every time he has a formulaic, low-impact match, which is most of the time, which is why Iím nowhere near as high on him as I was a year or two ago.

My pretty pirate boy needs to loving BRING IT at G1 or Iím done with him.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator




SANADA has looked like a huge loser ever since he beat Okada in the last G1 and until his two recent wins over SHO he hadn't beaten a single opponent of note. Again, this is very clearly intentional booking to follow up on the whole 'Okada left him broken and crying in the ring after KOPW 2019' and in the G1 my boy is going to do a YOSHI-HASHI and TURN IT ALL AROUND

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Was he also in the middle of a hissy fit throughout the whole of 2019? Because that was a really rough year for the Rainmaker and I don't know that three great matches with the three best wrestlers on the roster is a sign of a big turnaround.

Lil' Kazu had 12 MOTYCs and 8 HMs in 2019 so I don't know how you can call that a really rough year

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MOX

Rarity I think you're overestimating what's intentional with both Okada and Sanada but I think some of the rest of you are a little quick to bury the guy that had at worst the 3rd and 4th best matches of the year and at best the 1st and 2nd.

I think Okada has just reached the Nakamura-ing around phase of his career. Which is probably fine? You can say he's only 32 but he's been taking a very crowded bump card for close to 10 years now. There's a good reason Omega's last year in New Japan had the least dates of any of them.

Also I agree with GWB that Okada's 2019 wasnt particularly special after MSG.

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Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP

Honestly I think it's as simple as they had a very long story set up for Okada, did it, and have been having trouble figuring out the follow-up. It's hard to tell stories about Okada without him being the number one guy and the focus of attention.

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