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dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



the one who is a 38 y/o doctor owns

he's probably like 26 but i'm headcanoning this

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dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it's true, only kara/ichi/jyushi should be in the list while the other matsus eat dirt

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it's still a small enough "genre" in terms of representation in all of anime, though the bounds expand/contract based on how much is enough to qualify for subjective inclusion and sometimes other factors like genre (e.g. not pure romance). manga has always seemed like the better avenue to pursue if you're wanting more quality material, since you don't have to hit the overlap in venn diagram of a series being long/big enough to adapt and getting an adaptation. specific to BL, there's studio grizzly but a single, small studio can only do so much. not that a bl-only studio is even guaranteed to always make things the same person would like.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



yeah i was gonna say i had vague memories of love stage being taken to task at time of airing for how it engaged with some BL assault tropes. entirely possible for series to do that stuff and still turn things around but having not seen it i can't speak to that.

Craptacular! posted:

You have to accept that this stuff is made for Japanese women who are often in toxic relationships with men who display misogynistic behaviors. It sucks for actual gays to see all this rape, but the intended audience is so is accustomed to a culture of men raping women, that men raping other men seems logical. If you're okay with things being 'problematic' sometimes, you'll be fine.

this feels like an intensely weird implications to make though

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



i feel like there's room to discuss a personal hangup with genre terms that isn't just immediately jumping to pedophiles in response to a completely innocuous post that just happens to use the term in question, which is widely accepted in the community where it is actually relevant (jon stewart, lol, and normies be damned). though obviously crap is aware of the disconnect since they see fit to highlight it for whatever reason, i guess it can be a knee-jerk reaction to start things off in a combative/defensive position but it seems a pretty bad way to go about discussion. call me the tone police now

personally i've seen BL as both an easy shorthand and something that sheds the impenetrability and negative implications (plotless sex) of yaoi as a term in the west.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



i don't think that post is at all saying people uncomfortable with the term don't exist

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



thanks for clarifying

i think the designation of whether queer is a slur or not is kind of a strange battleground that's ancillary to the emotional affects (positive/negative) the word has on people, but that degree of separation and ambiguity is probably why it would be chosen for poo poo-stirring. especially when simply stating your thoughts on a side of the issue can results in unfavorable implications being read into it.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



even as someone who is very positive on SSY, i dunno how much i'd hold it up for the lgbt aspects, since it's pretty quickly washed away by conphet even if you do have a more generous read on the later parts of the series

all that to say ymmv but I'd temper expectations when it comes to how the show engages with lgbt rep. it's otherwise an excellently made dystopian thriller

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



PhysicsFrenzy posted:

I can't disagree too much, but I do feel Satoru's love of Shun in particular is very real and a major part of his character moving forward, even though he ultimately ends up with Saki. That character's relationships read to me as strong bi representation, which I really appreciate.

also heads up if anyone does try it out, I think the manga leans way more into ecchi poo poo than the anime. I haven't read it so I can't really speak for or against it, though.

this is pretty much my read, i always found it funny how they end up together, united by their feelings for the same guy. i just know people who didn't like how it all was handled so i generally just recommend it on its other merits because seeing expectations with the lgbt rep can backfire. in my vague memories it kinda feels like saki/maria was the more washed out of the two gay pairs but i'd need to rewatch to be sure.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



RottenK posted:

a lot of the discussion and recommendations i've seen are of stories with gay women or trans people, im curious if there's anything good this thread could recommend that has gay men? i've seen Given and Yuri on Ice, and Hoshiai no Sora gets a honorary mention even if it doesn't focus on it and the character in question might not be a man

i tried looking for something that might be for me back when i was a teen and didn't know better than to look at what a bunch of straight teenage fujoshis on my local anime forum liked, but none of the recommendations were good at all, it was all either gross or a dumb pointless tragedy or both

that tragedy thing is an issue for me, i'm fine with character struggling but im tired of having lgbt people killed off for drama, feels like this used to be a constant trope though maybe i just wasn't lucky with what i've seen

ymmv but Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens is a good recent show that isn't gay/romance centric but has a gay couple with a daughter in the ensemble, and the two male leads are heavily shipped by the show. i just found it refreshing to have those characters/elements and otherwise be largely focused on its whole criminal underworld/contract killer plots. and despite the darkness you'd expect from the setting, it ends up a fairly light show (first episode or so are a bit misleading here).

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



RottenK posted:

I actually seen this before and liked it a lot, even recommended it to my friends. can't believe i forgot about that show, but glad to be reminded of it

i still wonder if there's some gender commentary going on with Lin - i know he's not trans but i wonder if having a cis male who's clearly confident in his gender but also happy and comfortable with dressing and looking like a woman is a positive example of a gender nonconfirming person, or if im reading into it too much

i think its def positive. takes on the show are sparse so i haven't really seen what dissent may be out there anyway

the show is very much about chosen familial connections though, and it's a theme that has resonance in lgbt culture even before you include that the family in question has a bi dude and a gay family alongside lin's confident crossdressing.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



oh no i fell into the dichotomy trap

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



oso scans also fell off a cliff about 6 months ago, so...

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Wark Say posted:

Hakata Tonkotsu Ramens is like if Durarara and Killer7 adopted a baby.

and they're both guys

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it was maybe the show that broke me for caring about things being explicit, idr

ultimately i think viktor and yuri are a pretty bad and boring couple at least in the majority of the show so it just transferred my negativity from something unreasonable to that instead. hope the movie manages to exist and be good

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



stan yurio and chris imo

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



coding villains seems way more in the bag of western media ime, at the very least when it's cropping up in anime/manga it's alongside the protagonists or other related characters being coded as well

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



honestly wish i had seen it first run so i didn't spend months having the gayness oversold to me, but hey they at least fully embrace it in the marketing and official merchandise i guess

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



ah, it's easy R's boyfriend

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it's idol related so i'm sure it goes in the weekend idolw@tch

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



what about girly

disclaimer i do not remember it in detail

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Nihilarian posted:

wasnt the girly author a goon or something

no idea tbh, i was following it before i ever knew about sa and i've since fallen off webcomics so i never went to bss or other threads that might bring it up

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



but i guess now I'm going to reread girly in 2020

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it looks more like a newspaper comic to me unless its like, the later style was something people emulated instead

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Wark Say posted:

I think you meant to write "nowadays" or something in that ballpark but I totally understand what you're getting at.

Also, question: Are there any good LGBT manga with horror as the focus?

yuureitou immediately comes to mind

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



there's also that one from syundei that was licensed a yearish ago, total eclipse of the eternal heart

never read it though

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



the coffin stuff specifically just feels like they're all riffing on dragon quest so you can probably discount it

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Carpator Diei posted:

What exactly do you mean? There weren't any issues when I was reading the new chapter just now (not saying that those issues don't exist, I'm just curious because it didn't happen to me yet).

By the way, another new chapter, with extremely important developments!

newer chapters seem to have less of an issue displaying pages than older ones, though it still seems pretty variable

anyway for android users there's also Tachiyomi that you can get hooked into mangadex and download chapters if you want uninterrupted reading after a bit of upfront wait

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



read the edit man

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



well at this point you don't even need examples, people just get convinced they're Bad for woke reasons

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Kuros posted:

Okay, figured my question would fall under this thread as well, but I'll go take a look.

in theory it would, but i think bl having its own thread has siphoned that interest and posting to there

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it feels like a hard sell if you weren't already on the train of watching it weekly, since we've now seen how it just makes new loose ends as it goes along without satisfyingly tying any up by the end

from the lens of it being a troubled production it is still something i mostly like and find interesting and that's about the only angle i can see recommending it from

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dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



well the core staff was small so it seems like a fairly typical case of workload snowballing and then needing to scramble to bring in more freelancers and meet deadlines, and the ensuing stress and struggle that ballooning staff would create

when the series was finally wrapping it was also brought up that even at the base level of scripts and storyboards there had been lag, which would've only been compounding the issues with completing animation. that's the real unknowable stuff but you end up kind of imagining a conflict between aspects of the show like the grounded character work, grand SF overarching plot, what they seem to have wanted to do with Koito etc. there's a lot to handle even if it were a smoothly running 13-ep show...

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