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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



flightless greeb posted:




Berlin Luebecker Gewehr 43. Took a lot of hours and parts to get this old Russian Capture G43 back into firing shape but I done did it by gosh


Oh, wow, glad to hear you finally got it figured out. Sorry if you already told me, but what was the final resolution to that?

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Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

flightless greeb posted:

I also have 2-3 US Mil inspired AR15 clone guns but I'm not posting them here because that seems somehow gauche. But it does beg the question like what is milsurp really??

Milsurp (or posurp) is a firearm that was surplussed by a military (or police) force. This means the gun was used for duty, made obsolescent and no longer issued/stocked, and then sold on the civilian market for us junkies to clamber for. What this critically does not include is commercial reproductions of historical military/police firearms.

My M1c is a gauche mess, but it's all 'surp (minus the mag). It was first surplussed by the US army to Israel after WWII, where it was repurposed by a civilian police force, which then surplussed it again and exported it to the Canadian market for me to pick up.

My AR-15 has a surplussed C8 upper from the Canadian Forces, but the lower is some poverty pony XM177E1 clone I cobbled together. So it's half milsurp, half not.

My vz. 61 is a commercial reproduction of a Czech Army firearm, and I have surplussed holster and magazine pouch for it, but it's not milsurp at all.

(I think this thread is for both surplussed firearms and commercial reproductions of historical firearms.)

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Jehde posted:


(I think this thread is for both surplussed firearms and commercial reproductions of historical firearms.)

Yeah. If you want to get purist about it the surplus definition stands, but the reality is a lot of guns weren't surplussed due to laws and the like. No one is going to get a 100% milsurp M16A2 for example.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Yeah I'm not sure about down south, but up here any sort of surplussed select-fire thing is a no go, even if it's flawlessly converted to be semi-automatic only. So I can get that milsurp C8 upper, but I sure as hell can't get a milsurp C8 lower.

This is partially what lead to the whole CZ 858 kerfuffle up here. The CZ 858 was a semi-automatic only reproduction of the vz. 58 for the civilian market, and was built on receivers made for the civilian market. CZUB got cocky/greedy and realized they had a bunch of surplussed military receivers lying around that they thought they could get away with converting to be semi-automatic only for CZ 858 export sales. They got caught by the RCMP and the CZ 858 became prohibited here, so CZUB decided they just weren't going to deal with that whole mess and ended up donating the remainder of their surplus vz. 58s to the Kurds instead.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



In the end the problem was this piece:



Took a long time to figure it out, but the bottom of the bolt carrier was so worn down it couldn't trip an unmodified hammer. Darrin Weaver sent me a new one and along with new springs and and a new hammer it now works alright (handguard still pops off but what can you do).

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Jehde posted:

Yeah I'm not sure about down south, but up here any sort of surplussed select-fire thing is a no go, even if it's flawlessly converted to be semi-automatic only. So I can get that milsurp C8 upper, but I sure as hell can't get a milsurp C8 lower.

This is partially what lead to the whole CZ 858 kerfuffle up here. The CZ 858 was a semi-automatic only reproduction of the vz. 58 for the civilian market, and was built on receivers made for the civilian market. CZUB got cocky/greedy and realized they had a bunch of surplussed military receivers lying around that they thought they could get away with converting to be semi-automatic only for CZ 858 export sales. They got caught by the RCMP and the CZ 858 became prohibited here, so CZUB decided they just weren't going to deal with that whole mess and ended up donating the remainder of their surplus vz. 58s to the Kurds instead.

Yeah, in the US it's "once a machinegun, always a machinegun." Which means that you can, for example, torch cut the receiver according to ATF specs and turn a gun into a "parts kit" but you need to build it back up with a new, virgin receiver.

So take your typical M16 and cut the receiver up and populate an AR15 receiver with the upper and lower bits and you're OK.

This can get more complex if you're importing poo poo, what with the barrel import ban etc.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Jehde posted:

Yeah I'm not sure about down south, but up here any sort of surplussed select-fire thing is a no go, even if it's flawlessly converted to be semi-automatic only. So I can get that milsurp C8 upper, but I sure as hell can't get a milsurp C8 lower.
For full auto in the US, if it got registered then it's possible. There are lots of USGI machine guns, particularly from WWII that people brought back from the war and registered. But if it isn't registered and began life as a machine gun (talking receiver here) it would need to be demilled before being built back into a semi to be legal.

E: To be really clear, none of the automatic stuff WWII and up was sold as surplus to my knowledge though I don't know about pre 1934 where it could have been sold anywhere.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jan 7, 2020

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009


Theres at least 1 m16 that someone stole from an armory and was registered by someone else because of the immunity period at the closing of the registry. Dont know the model but gun jesus did a vid on one

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Sten Freak posted:

E: To be really clear, none of the automatic stuff WWII and up was sold as surplus to my knowledge though I don't know about pre 1934 where it could have been sold anywhere.

I think some stuff made it out via the po-surp pipeline. Like, surplussed to the cops as a transferable and then sold by the police to buy body armor etc when transferables became big ticket items. For whatever reason I'm having vague memories of Reisings.

You know that market better than me, though, I could be wrong.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



Stravag posted:

Theres at least 1 m16 that someone stole from an armory and was registered by someone else because of the immunity period at the closing of the registry. Dont know the model but gun jesus did a vid on one

Huh, that's really interesting. I wonder if there are any that got taken home in foot lockers in the shuffle of soldiers getting shipped home at the end of Vietnam.

Do you have a link to that video? I watched one yesterday of a suppressed Grease Gun that was dropped to a partisan fighter during WW2 and the US never asked for it back so it's in a private collection now.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

I think some stuff made it out via the po-surp pipeline. Like, surplussed to the cops as a transferable and then sold by the police to buy body armor etc when transferables became big ticket items. For whatever reason I'm having vague memories of Reisings.

You know that market better than me, though, I could be wrong.
You're right! Po-surp Reisings definitely. There are quite a few guns with little brass plates on the stock with department names or prison names. And some other guns you'd not think of having a police presence were registered as fully transferable including M16s and all types of odd stuff. I'd draw a distinction between milsurp and posurp though, but that's just me.

There are some real deal post WWII USGI machine guns that made it into the registry you see here and there but they are uncommon and not sold as surplus so a lot of this is just fine distinctions on how the gun made it "out" into civilian hands E: and the posurp vs milsrup distinction.

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009


22 Eargesplitten posted:

Huh, that's really interesting. I wonder if there are any that got taken home in foot lockers in the shuffle of soldiers getting shipped home at the end of Vietnam.

Do you have a link to that video? I watched one yesterday of a suppressed Grease Gun that was dropped to a partisan fighter during WW2 and the US never asked for it back so it's in a private collection now.

Couldn't find it with a quick search. I may be thinking of something he brought up in a Q&A video. A different search saw about a dozen m16s and a1s listed as transferable on a website for around 16k-21k

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

The video in question is one explaining the amnesty of 1968. I knew about the amnesty but the video is awesome and told me stuff I did not know like the amnesty didn't just cover the weapon but the person so that a complete felon could register an m60 or whatever and boom, they are legally the owner of a legally registered gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnoSbLw_7hA

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



I feel like milsurp vs posurp is kind of a pointless distinction to make given how borderline impossible it is to determine provenance of a lot of stuff from Warsaw pact / third world countries that eventually got surplussed off. It only really works for modern US PoSurp or places with absolutely anal documentation policies Germany

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Jehde posted:

Milsurp (or posurp) is a firearm that was surplussed by a military (or police) force. This means the gun was used for duty, made obsolescent and no longer issued/stocked, and then sold on the civilian market for us junkies to clamber for. What this critically does not include is commercial reproductions of historical military/police firearms.

My M1c is a gauche mess, but it's all 'surp (minus the mag). It was first surplussed by the US army to Israel after WWII, where it was repurposed by a civilian police force, which then surplussed it again and exported it to the Canadian market for me to pick up.

My AR-15 has a surplussed C8 upper from the Canadian Forces, but the lower is some poverty pony XM177E1 clone I cobbled together. So it's half milsurp, half not.

My vz. 61 is a commercial reproduction of a Czech Army firearm, and I have surplussed holster and magazine pouch for it, but it's not milsurp at all.

(I think this thread is for both surplussed firearms and commercial reproductions of historical firearms.)

Were you looking to do an SMLE restoration on your Dad's rifle, or was that someone else? I may have some spare parts to share that are left over from mine.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Fearless posted:

Were you looking to do an SMLE restoration on your Dad's rifle, or was that someone else? I may have some spare parts to share that are left over from mine.

Yes! I still need to order a set of woods, but any spare bits and bobs you might have would be appreciated. Your restoration has been inspiring, but the wood prep sounds daunting.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Jehde posted:

Yes! I still need to order a set of woods, but any spare bits and bobs you might have would be appreciated. Your restoration has been inspiring, but the wood prep sounds daunting.

It's one of those experiences where it pays to slow down so as to speed up. Start with the butt stock, then the lower forestock, then the upper handguards. It's a lot of careful work and inletting, but it is not insurmountable at all. I mean poo poo, I did it and I live in a condo in Fairview. Numrich is your best bet for spare parts I think. I have some extra screws and a spare upper handguard cap that are yours when you are ready.

drizzle
Jul 6, 2004

The world is a fine place and worth the fighting for and I hate very much to leave it.


Finally got my first milsurp like 10 years too late but better late than never I guess. Haven't shot it yet but it cleaned up pretty nice

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



drizzle posted:

Finally got my first milsurp like 10 years too late but better late than never I guess. Haven't shot it yet but it cleaned up pretty nice



Mmmmm new milsurp thread starting off good.

Don't let anyone poo poo talk a Mosin as a first piece of milsurp. They are great pieces of real history that can be had for a reasonable amount and will teach you a lot. I've got four of the drat things sitting around.

Action-Bastard
Jan 1, 2008



drizzle posted:

Finally got my first milsurp like 10 years too late but better late than never I guess. Haven't shot it yet but it cleaned up pretty nice



That looks loving gorgeous I'd say you scored.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


AFewBricksShy posted:

I have a question regarding milsurp.

I have a rc K98 that I restored the stock on. While restoring it back in '03, I kept the original nazi markings on the stock in tact. They are faint, but there.

Obviously this was done before nazis became a real thing again, but am I coming off as some racist douche by keeping them on?

If you don't want to own nazi stuff but like the gun, look around for who else used the same or a similar gun. Personally, I wanted a Mauser that was more likely to have shot at nazis than at jews and Cyrano pointed me toward the Yugo mausers. Now I own an M24/47. Also, all my parts came in to fix my trigger issue with and the finish on the parts is in way better condition than the rest of the gun. I'll post pics after I swap them.

My adventure in Milsurp started with hearing about how easy it is to get old guns shipped straight to me. I also found out that you get a way better price on Garands with the same license. So I paid to be put on a government list that lets me not pay private businesses to transfer old guns. I'm now the proud owner of a late '45 M1 Garand, a greasy chinese SKS, and a slighty wore out M24/47. I hope to add more milsurp to my collection, starting with another M1 that I am in the process of ordering.

Gewehr 43
Aug 25, 2003



ehehehehehehehehehehehe

edit: This actually made me giggle like a schoolgirl. That isn't the Carbine of Woe™ is it?

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009


... why are there pencils in the magazine?

Missing Name
Jan 5, 2013

Here you go. Juicy Fruit. Happy?


Stravag posted:

... why are there pencils in the magazine?

because they fit

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Gewehr 43 posted:

ehehehehehehehehehehehe

edit: This actually made me giggle like a schoolgirl. That isn't the Carbine of Woe™ is it?

Oh god I didn't notice the mag full of pencils.

That is loving beautiful.


Stravag posted:

... why are there pencils in the magazine?

OLD school TFR in joke. Involving someone getting pencils stuck in his M1 carbine barre. Plus a boresnake.

SOmeone who remembers the details better than I do tell the full sotry.

Gewehr 43
Aug 25, 2003


All I remember is wailing on the thing for days to finally clear the barrel.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Gewehr 43 posted:

All I remember is wailing on the thing for days to finally clear the barrel.

OH yeah, I forgot it got sent to you. loving lol.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Wasn't it an oversized or cheap boresnake that got stuck first, then pencils and other crap to try and clear the blockage?

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005




Jehde posted:

This is partially what lead to the whole CZ 858 kerfuffle up here. The CZ 858 was a semi-automatic only reproduction of the vz. 58 for the civilian market, and was built on receivers made for the civilian market. CZUB got cocky/greedy and realized they had a bunch of surplussed military receivers lying around that they thought they could get away with converting to be semi-automatic only for CZ 858 export sales. They got caught by the RCMP and the CZ 858 became prohibited here, so CZUB decided they just weren't going to deal with that whole mess and ended up donating the remainder of their surplus vz. 58s to the Kurds instead.

This is not wholly accurate. CZ was making them this way for the Canadian market from the get go. They were inspected and approved by the RCMP for import this way. The early Marstar rifles (I had one) just had a block installed in the receiver where the FA bits would go. It was the same with the Swiss Arms, despite always being a 550, and the original Type 97s being able to accept FA trigger groups, they were all inspected by the RCMP and approved for import. The mistake was with the RCMP approving them without doing their due diligence and then not realising their mistake until years later.

SimonCat
Aug 12, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo


College Slice

Finally got my CMP 1911.

I was hoping for an A1, got a 1918 production Colt. Pretty nice shape!









Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


wouldn't mind a milsurp 1911 but I seem to keep missing their windows, if they get more could someone post here in the thread?

I have no idea what FFL documents look like, when they say "signed" do they mean a photocopy of whatever the normal ffl thing is, or does it have to be like a special copy with an inked signature, or what?

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

SimonCat posted:

Finally got my CMP 1911.

I was hoping for an A1, got a 1918 production Colt. Pretty nice shape!











Woooooooooowwwwwwwwwww

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Fearless posted:

Wasn't it an oversized or cheap boresnake that got stuck first, then pencils and other crap to try and clear the blockage?

My recollection of the story goes like this:

Goon is cleaning his carbine, decides to put a patch in the loop of the boresnake for extra cleaning power.

It gets stuck real good.

Goon asks advice, another goon completely misunderstands and says "push it out with a pencil," assuming they were talking about a pistol.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


there was an old carbine that swallowed a fly...

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

McNally posted:

My recollection of the story goes like this:

Goon is cleaning his carbine, decides to put a patch in the loop of the boresnake for extra cleaning power.

It gets stuck real good.

Goon asks advice, another goon completely misunderstands and says "push it out with a pencil," assuming they were talking about a pistol.

That was Cyrano, wasn't it? Didn't it get up to five or six pencils stuck in it?

I remember photos with feet in them.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Lol no that wasn’t me.

Arcella
Dec 16, 2013

Shiny and Chrome


Gewehr 43 posted:

ehehehehehehehehehehehe

edit: This actually made me giggle like a schoolgirl. That isn't the Carbine of Woe™ is it?

No it's not the Carbine of Woe. I had forgotten it got sent to you, though.

Was it that Foghorn Cleghorn guy?


Nvm you're right
VVV

Arcella fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 8, 2020

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Pretty sure it was paramemetic

Gewehr 43
Aug 25, 2003


Captain Log posted:

That was Cyrano, wasn't it? Didn't it get up to five or six pencils stuck in it?

I remember photos with feet in them.

I think there was two. Plus a bore snake and other stuff. It was a definite case of acting before thinking.

If I recall, I ended up wrapping a really long drill bit in tape so that it wouldn't damage the bore, then drilled a bunch of garbage out of it, then wailed on the remaining garbage with a big brass drift for a while. Finally, the poor little carbine that couldn't barfed out this big mass of stuff and the bore was clear.

It was like watching a sewer pipe.

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Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


Just remembered my C&R runs out in a few months. If it's anything like the last time, my renewal packet should arrive any day now.

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