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Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


I forgot to ask, are M1 Carbine mags designed to be stored loaded? I have no idea how long the ammo was in those mags before I got them.

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Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Rodenthar Drothman posted:

I'll watch it closely, then. Good enough for a mod, good enough for me.

e: It kinda looks like, in pic 16, that the front sight is offset to the right like it would be if it were an infantry gun. Maybe not as hilariously offset, but still offset to the right side.


The thing that gets me the most is how the etching on the scope mount is literally worse than etching I do at work with tooling poo poo that the client never sees.

Come on, guys.
Both of mine have front sights like that and have all the qualities of genuine snipers, qualities that basically guarantee the rifles themselves were produced as snipers.

When I bought an 80s import in 2003 or so I did a lot of research on it and there was nothing about the zero as an indicator of a sniper or not. I canít say whether or not itís a real thing but Im skeptical.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



That scope mount etching is totally typical soviet refurb depot electro pencil. Iíve seen it on eve thing from sniper mosins to RC k98ks to SVT40s and SKSs. Itís how they force matched parts when they were rearsenalinh guns.

And yes itís always that sloppy.

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

A while back I posted my mildly Bubba'd Jungle Carbine. I took it out for the second time yesterday and it literally cannot hit a door at 50m. Months ago I thought the sights were off, but a boresight confirmed they're adequate. So something else is going on with the barrel. What resources should I read for checking the barrel myself? It was a cheap gun that I don't want to spend gunsmith money on, but I also don't want it to be completely useless.

Roundboy
Oct 21, 2008


Amature opinion it's all about the crown. If it's bubba'ed to hell already it might be worth a gunsmith to cut a new one or get the tool to do it yourself, depends on cost

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Yeah, crown is the likely culprit. Can you throw up a pic? We likely can't diagnose much ,but if there's something obvious someone here might catch it.
What ammo where you using too?

If you're not on paper at 50yd pull the target way back so you can see what's going on with it. If you're grouping acceptably at, say, 10 yards but the groups are way off to one side or something it could be as simple as the sights being a little wonky. Boresighting irons is always a bit tricky.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

What's the usual cause of crown damage? Dropping the gun muzzle first on a hard surface? Or do they just like wear out eventually?

I've seen people warn against cleaning from the muzzle with a steel cleaning rod but it seems like you'd have to be going pretty crazy to actually damage it that way.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


Can we just appreciate the irony of a British weapon being hosed by the crown

Roundboy
Oct 21, 2008


my kinda ape posted:

What's the usual cause of crown damage? Dropping the gun muzzle first on a hard surface? Or do they just like wear out eventually?

I've seen people warn against cleaning from the muzzle with a steel cleaning rod but it seems like you'd have to be going pretty crazy to actually damage it that way.

In theory the barrel rifling itself will take a lot of abuse. so long there is enough to impart the spin it needs.

When it hits the crown, a burr, nick, stub, etc anything that will 'grab' the round and affect that spin, or push it off the original trajectory.

I'm missing probably other obvious things, but i know of a few goons that had a new crown cut and like magic, the gun shoots great.

You can also have a problem with barrel wobble. as the recoil impulse hits, the barrel is moving like a wave form and you will group for poo poo because the rounds are moving x degrees of center as they leave the barrel. This is pretty evident on pencil thin barrels that group different after many rounds vs the first few shots, or non free floated barrels that you use a rest that presses against the handguard and barrel.

can you slide a dollar bill or similar paper all the way between the guard and barrel? how are you resting the gun to shoot groups? if you got a really large piece of butcher paper, or stapled many targets into one LARGE target, is it grouping -somewhere- just not where you expected?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



my kinda ape posted:

What's the usual cause of crown damage? Dropping the gun muzzle first on a hard surface? Or do they just like wear out eventually?

I've seen people warn against cleaning from the muzzle with a steel cleaning rod but it seems like you'd have to be going pretty crazy to actually damage it that way.

Yeah, basically any impact to the crown can gently caress it up. It's a big part of why muzzle devices are so great on modern guns. Even if you give zero fucks about flash suppression, having a brake, etc. just having a removable piece of metal extend up in a cup around your crown can prevent a lot of unfortunate poo poo.

Whether or not steel cleaning rods gently caress crowns has been a debate for as long as I've been around guns. The GCA did a test a bunch of years back where they did something like 50k strokes on a crown and didn't see anything, but I seem to remember their methodology was called into question. What would concern me far more than a single piece steel rod would be any kind of jointed rod (brass or otherwise) that could allow grit to collect in the joints and act as an abrasive.

Either way, militaries were apparently concerned enough to issue muzzle guides. gently caress, mosins come with them.

Crowns getting hosed was a known enough issue that a lot of different countries would eventually re-crown their guns by counter-boring the muzzles. Just drill down into the bore a few inches, essentially creating a barrel that's an inch or two shorter but with what amounts to a permanently attached muzzle shroud over the last bits. This gives you a nice new crown, although I'm sure it fucks with the ballistics a bit, basically turning your 20 inch barrel into an 18.5 or whatever. They're also a royal pain in the dick to clean if you're shooting corrosive because your patch dosen't scrub the inside of the counter-bored part as tightly as it does the rest of the barrel.

Edit: Oh, rust is easily the #1 crown killer. Get a nasty rust spot and pit on your crown and you're just fuuucked. Time to re-crown it. When you're talking surplus rifles that saw a bunch of corrosive ammo, it's a real possibility.

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

I'll have a better opportunity to shoot at proper targets in the future to try and pinpoint the pattern (if any) of its insane inaccuracy. For now, have a collection of pictures that made me go






Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Mambo No. 5 posted:

I forgot to ask, are M1 Carbine mags designed to be stored loaded? I have no idea how long the ammo was in those mags before I got them.

Yeah, they were designed to be ready to use for the war, and designed to be disposable like a STANAG.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

N17R4M posted:


Enough chatter; more stenposting;





It has the early cocking lever, and lacks the safety upgrade, so it did miss a late/post war refurbishment. The others at the store all had the upgrade.
Hey, do you own Peter Laider's book? It's awesome. If you don't and have any questions let me know.

I was reading up on the MKIII and came across the production stat: At the peak Lines Brothers, the stamped-steel toy company that made all the MKIIIs, was cranking out 500 guns a shift. One shift was 8 hours and they worked around the clock to meet their 500,000 first order.

I did notice no charging handle push through safety which is weird to me but I need to go back and see when that change was made. I came across a tidbit that I'd missed previously - the charging handle will slide into the back of the bolt to make the whole package more compact when they were boxing them up to drop to resistance or other forces.

E: Also Peter Laider posts here https://www.milsurps.com/content.php

I posted a pic of an mp28 /ppsh41 franken-magazine I had welded up for shooting 7.62x25 in the Sten and he responded something like " I know WHAT it is, but I don't understand WHY"

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Sten Freak posted:

Hey, do you own Peter Laider's book? It's awesome. If you don't and have any questions let me know.

I was reading up on the MKIII and came across the production stat: At the peak Lines Brothers, the stamped-steel toy company that made all the MKIIIs, was cranking out 500 guns a shift. One shift was 8 hours and they worked around the clock to meet their 500,000 first order.

I did notice no charging handle push through safety which is weird to me but I need to go back and see when that change was made. I came across a tidbit that I'd missed previously - the charging handle will slide into the back of the bolt to make the whole package more compact when they were boxing them up to drop to resistance or other forces.

E: Also Peter Laider posts here https://www.milsurps.com/content.php

I posted a pic of an mp28 /ppsh41 franken-magazine I had welded up for shooting 7.62x25 in the Sten and he responded something like " I know WHAT it is, but I don't understand WHY"

I have been eyeballing the book for years, even back when I had my MkII, but I never justified dropping 200 bux for a used copy. I'd eat it up if an e-book existed for like 70.

The bolt handle is the second variant type, fro what I understand, the earliest post Sten MkI type. There is no push through safety because its rather early gun, in the 19k serial range, and supposedly a battlefield pickup in the Belgium/Luxemberg area, a few weeks after the Battle of the Bulge. So never got upgraded. Several other neat guns came from the same collection, including a 9mm PPSh-41, a M3 grease gun, an all matching MG42 and an MP40. All pickups by the guys father.

Any MkIII info you could look up would be super cool.

e - Will try the cocking lever trick and get back to you.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I got my copy on eBay for I want to say 75 so if you are lucky itís possible.

Lines Brothers got the manufacturing time down to 5 1/2 man hrs per gun, never bettered. As you are probably well aware the receiver was stamped from a flat, folded and welded with the seam becoming the sight (the MkII was a drawn over mandrel tube). The initial welds were beefed up after they had a prototype receiver open up with a ruptured case.

The rear head casing, sight and trigger mechanism was all done as a one-hit stamp.

Home Guard got the first MkIIIs. An April 42 order mentions the type of new Sten.

The main problem of the MkIII surfaced after the war. Over time the barrel twisting against the friction holding it in place will let go allow the barrel to go free. He goes into great detail about the official and unofficial fixes for this.

Lines made 876,794 guns. This doesnít count the many parts they made for MKII guns. The assembled tons of mags too.

Officially itís a 7lb gun with 540rpm.

Thereís a ton there if you need specific info.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Sten Freak posted:

I got my copy on eBay for I want to say 75 so if you are lucky itís possible.


Yeah, haunt ebay. Also make sure to set a watch on any copies of something you see, because sometimes sellers will drop them dramatically if they arne't moving. I just scored a german language book on Mauser that is usually about $200-250 for $100 after the seller dropped it like that.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

The best way to "Do Ebay" is to save your important searches. I manually check them nightly and have email notifications turned on for the important ones. It only takes five or ten minutes and has netted me some loving amazing deals on are poo poo.

A Real Hologram
Jun 22, 2018

Moo!


Jehde posted:

Yeah, they were designed to be ready to use for the war, and designed to be disposable like a STANAG.

I had some USGI M1 carbine magazines - both 15 and 30 rounders - loaded for over 10 years, and they performed flawlessly.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


Thanks Jehde and JRH, maybe I'll load them back up. All three have the U stamp, the third one is just a lot lighter/shallower.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



What wears mag springs out is use. Letting them sit compressed or uncompressed doesn't wear them out nearly as fast as repeatedly loading and unloading them.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Aftermarket M1 carbine mags are generally rear end regardless. Just stick to USGI/KCI

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

KCI is aftermarket tho

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


KCI is the only aftermarket that I've heard are anybgood.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



KCI are also so ubiquitous that I'm having a hard time thinking of non-KCI aftermarket carbine mags.

Saying "all aftermarkets are poo poo stick with KCI" is kind of like saying "all aftermarket AR15 mags are poo poo, stick with USGI or Magpul." Like, it's not wrong, but you've just included the majority of the mags out there.

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Looks like Peter Laidler the author of Sten Machine Carbine was arrested in December for stealing firearms from the MOD. Huh.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

N17R4M posted:

Looks like Peter Laidler the author of Sten Machine Carbine was arrested in December for stealing firearms from the MOD. Huh.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Winchester M1917 with the Elmer Keith inspection stamp going for BIN 1300 in 5 days.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/866731835

Here's a story about Laidler: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50562122

Looks like he helped himself to a couple L96s and an SA80 and even sold one of the L96s for ten grand, while he was the armorer for the collection. Sentenced to 3 years.

flightless greeb fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 24, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Well I guess donít expect info from him on that forum for the next 3 years or so. What a boneheaded move.

N17R4M
Aug 18, 2012

Because yes we actually DID want that land


Going to just share a friend's youtube series; The Armorer's Bench. They're slowly covering the Sten at them moment, and have covered some neat stuff in the past and today was a particularly neat gun which I had no idea even existed;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNDYYQDXQOk

Rodenthar Drothman
May 14, 2013

I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

Well, I bought the 91/30.

I don't think my FFL of choice is open on Sundays, especially not this weekend, so I'll have to wait to transmit that on Tuesday when I assume I'll get it.

I guess we'll see if that Molly import is worth it (in that it shoots accurately - or hell, even shoots at all). I think I'll be happy with it


E: you know what autocorrect, I'm gonna let you keep that one. It works.

Rodenthar Drothman fucked around with this message at 05:29 on May 25, 2020

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Those snipers respond really well to decent ammo and great to hand loads. I was worried about mine when it wouldnít group Prvi but it turns out x54r PPU is poo poo.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Which Mosin did you end up getting?

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



I don't have a sniper 91/30, but my 1938 arsenal refinished Tula (bought in 2011 for $137 with accessories) is as accurate as a brand new rifle should have been. You can make 100 yard headshots on a silhouette with patience and good eyesight.

Rodenthar Drothman
May 14, 2013

I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

flightless greeb posted:

Which Mosin did you end up getting?

This one

Rodenthar Drothman posted:

Okay, what are the thread opinions on this rifle.

I'm still not sure if it was a great price, and not being able to inspect the barrel myself until I get it makes me kinda nervous.

kupachek
Aug 5, 2015

We both like to hang out in public bathrooms?!

Rodenthar Drothman posted:

This one


I'm still not sure if it was a great price, and not being able to inspect the barrel myself until I get it makes me kinda nervous.

That's a modern export from russia, one of the rifles they rearsenaled to be sold as a hunting rifle. The bore should be nice on it unless the previous owner over the last 8 years since import was abusive and ran corrosive without cleaning.

I think it looks good, and should be a heck of a lot of fun.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


Royal Tiger got in some cheap Chassepots if anyone else gives a drat about French rifles.

If I hadn't just bought a rifle I can actually shoot I'd consider it.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

kupachek posted:

That's a modern export from russia, one of the rifles they rearsenaled to be sold as a hunting rifle.
These guns were rearsenaled by the Soviets. Molot engraved them with new markings and packaged them as hunting rifles as I understand it. But if you have other info Iíd like to know if.

kupachek
Aug 5, 2015

We both like to hang out in public bathrooms?!

Sten Freak posted:

These guns were rearsenaled by the Soviets. Molot engraved them with new markings and packaged them as hunting rifles as I understand it. But if you have other info Iíd like to know if.

Packaged as hunting rifles as a way to avoid arms restrictions and sanctions, I think it was?
They were claiming they were new production at one point but that was bull.

Tulsky as well as Molot.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Yeah the point of distinction that most buyers want to know is when they were made and who and when were they rearsenaled. Mine appear to be original snipers rearsenaled a long time ago using original parts as opposed to modern repro parts.

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Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Cyrano4747 posted:

KCI are also so ubiquitous that I'm having a hard time thinking of non-KCI aftermarket carbine mags.

Saying "all aftermarkets are poo poo stick with KCI" is kind of like saying "all aftermarket AR15 mags are poo poo, stick with USGI or Magpul." Like, it's not wrong, but you've just included the majority of the mags out there.

Stay away from promag and auto ordinance, and other general aftermarket that isn't KCI, I guess.

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