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Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

All hail the new milsurp thread



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Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Jehde posted:

Yeah I'm not sure about down south, but up here any sort of surplussed select-fire thing is a no go, even if it's flawlessly converted to be semi-automatic only. So I can get that milsurp C8 upper, but I sure as hell can't get a milsurp C8 lower.
For full auto in the US, if it got registered then it's possible. There are lots of USGI machine guns, particularly from WWII that people brought back from the war and registered. But if it isn't registered and began life as a machine gun (talking receiver here) it would need to be demilled before being built back into a semi to be legal.

E: To be really clear, none of the automatic stuff WWII and up was sold as surplus to my knowledge though I don't know about pre 1934 where it could have been sold anywhere.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jan 7, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

I think some stuff made it out via the po-surp pipeline. Like, surplussed to the cops as a transferable and then sold by the police to buy body armor etc when transferables became big ticket items. For whatever reason I'm having vague memories of Reisings.

You know that market better than me, though, I could be wrong.
You're right! Po-surp Reisings definitely. There are quite a few guns with little brass plates on the stock with department names or prison names. And some other guns you'd not think of having a police presence were registered as fully transferable including M16s and all types of odd stuff. I'd draw a distinction between milsurp and posurp though, but that's just me.

There are some real deal post WWII USGI machine guns that made it into the registry you see here and there but they are uncommon and not sold as surplus so a lot of this is just fine distinctions on how the gun made it "out" into civilian hands E: and the posurp vs milsrup distinction.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

The video in question is one explaining the amnesty of 1968. I knew about the amnesty but the video is awesome and told me stuff I did not know like the amnesty didn't just cover the weapon but the person so that a complete felon could register an m60 or whatever and boom, they are legally the owner of a legally registered gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnoSbLw_7hA

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I shot one of my 91/30 PUs with non surplus ammo for the first time yesterday. Hell I'd never shot non surplus x54r before. It's S&B 180gr Tactical camo green box ammo. It shot low for me which isn't surprising given it was dialed in for light ball surplus but once I got it zeroed I put two rounds within an inch of each other then ended up shooting a 2.5" group at 100yds. I didn't have a good rest so pretty sure the group's growth was all me.

I've pulled and weighed surplus and the weights of bullets and powder are fairly consistent but I suspect time and small variations and probably the quality of the powder itself combine to produce inferior ammo for target shooting.

I bought the ammo for the cases mainly but it's got me thinking about heavy projectiles. I'm going to load some of the pulled light projectiles then have to decide what bullets to use, likely selling the rest of my surplus to buy bullets as it seems a waste to pull it all.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Iím excited to see what hand loads will do given the S&B shot pretty well. Iíve got N150 powder and two different weight light ball pulled projectiles. It felt really good to see a non sooty bore and not have clean corrosive mess after shooting. Iím done with surplus in this gun.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Right on, I'll check that bullet out. A friend has offered to slug my barrel when he does his.

And Cyrano, not having to clean the day of shooting was the #1 reason I wanted to load for it but finding how accurate I can load for it and seeing what it can do at 500 yards will be fun.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

Oh yeah. Iíve been super impressed with the accuracy Iíve rung out of rifles that shouldnít be all that impressive. An RC K98k for example.
Hmm well I have a bag of once fired 8mm brass and a 1941 Portuguese crest model K98k I've never fired.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Were they nitre bluing small parts on rifles back then? It sure looks like a few parts were. That's awesome looking in any case.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

Not in a great spot to watch the video. What's the TL;DR on it? Anything interesting coming in?
Notes from skimming it:

- 8 years working on these imports from Africa
- One batch in more to come
- Mentioned basically any common rifle you can think of and some odd balls and prototypes, stuff they'd never even seen before

E:
"last cache of original Mausers in the world, untouched" (original finishes all matching etc)
"treasure trove"

Pictures of piles of guns stacked up in a warehouse with goats standing on them and stuff
basically tons of guns

E2:
I've been hearing about the last X types of guns for decades now and someone later will root out a pile of them from somewhere in the globe. But this does appear to be a rather large interesting haul

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jan 30, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

The importer gives his email address in the vid. Maybe some pleading to use another distributor than classic and why would help but I don't know why they use them.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

It's been a while since I've bought from them but AIM has always been tops to me. They tend to get the cream of any large batch, are honest and are easy to exchange with.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I gotta say, that charging handle may really be an improvement. The rear charging mechanism on the closed bolt conversion is so terribly awkward to charge and it can interfere with the hold. The receiver is stout so the cut isn't going to hurt anything. The TNW gun I had was a turd though. I'm biased.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

The handle is so drat hard to pull. TNW messed around with the guts of the FCG a couple times. I think mine was the 2nd iteration of it so I may have had one of the more difficult ones to pull. I know the original SMG charged from the rear but I'd bet the resistance wasn't nearly so much due to open bolt design. The conversion meant you are trying to compress a stiff spring (springs?) a short distance. It sucked.

The other problem was disassembly/reassembly was a total pain. Mine had trouble running from the start and after taking it apart and back together stopped working. I just sold it as a project after sending it back twice. The front sight wasn't visible when the rear was set to 0 (lowest, whatever that was). It was a lemon in an already a bad, bad conversion. I'd say it's easily the worst gun I've ever bought and made me decide to steer clear of closed bolt conversions of open bolt guns no matter how tempted. /rant

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I agree. If only the registry weren't closed. I believe if you really, really want a historical subgun sell any guns you can, and scrimp and save until you can buy a real one because the semis have so many shortcomings. The Suomi just reaffirmed this for me. An exception to the rule is the UZI. They are fine semis in every way except the protruding barrel which can be dealt with via a stamp.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Stumbled on something interesting. LTC is claiming this is clandestinely produced 9mm ammo with misleading headstamps, made in Canada for the US.

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=4360&idcategory=0

I found a little info on it here:

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/canadian-7-92mm-and-9mm-hdstmps/6926

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Beautiful day to be out.

Thatís an odd mag failure. Korean commercial mags are really good. They may be better than surplus, even unissued but I do think thereís a lot of tired carbine mags floating around. Anyway I use Korean 30s with my M2 and have no problems.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

DeesGrandpa posted:

Had no idea you had an M2 in addition to the other fun stuff, quite rad. I'm still trying to comply with our Denver city no mags over 15 (even grandfathered) BS so my 30s are out of city unfortunately.
Yeah as Cyrano said they (KCI) makes 15s. AIM surplus has them for $12.

I didnít hand you the M2 when you came by because it looks just like an M1 with a goofy brake and easy to miss selector. But we should go shoot it sometime. I need to take it out more. Itís a handful in a fun way, real fast and light.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Any chance of me third wheeling? I've never gotten to shoot an M1, let alone an M2.

Hell yeah. Once it warms a bit to melt the snow at my range Iíll send some PMs

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Pretty cool rifle. Forgotten Weapons has a vid on it.

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-M...761937#topoflot

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

DeesGrandpa posted:

If you get a rack grade and dont like it I'll happily give you what you paid for it. They're neat.

e: mine, don't know if it was service or field


It was the middle grade, field iirc.

I will say I have no regrets selling it on but I do think the ANAD group of guns have their own neat history and a cool way to get a completely military executed refurbished gun. And because ANAD guns are recognizable they could have a their own following one day.

CMP is just slow on these. If you have a high # anything is still possible.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Nope. If it doesnít qualify it doesnít go in the book.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

It's an M2 as the selector switch is there and drat it, I've been waffling on buying a repro folding stock for years now. This isn't helping.

e



Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Once this bug calms down let's talk. There are a few models out there - is yours cut for the selector switch?

Also have an unfired since import 91/30 PU (I bought two of them when they hit) and saw you might be looking for one of those.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Agreed - replace the main spring and KCI Korean mags.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

my kinda ape posted:

Was just overcome with carbine fever and spent most of my plaguebux on an M1 carbine from Royal Tiger Imports. They were out of the excellent to unissued ones so I went with a very good to excellent one. Will report back as soon as I get the gun.
I'm intrigued. RT has a bad rep but you never know what will show up and I love me some carbines.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Action-Bastard posted:

Oof, really good price on a Mosin sniper I may have to spend my stim check on:

https://www.armslist.com/posts/11564420/oregon-rifles-for-sale--cai-russian--m91-30--1937-

From those pics thereís no way of knowing if itís a real sniper, repro or what.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

LingcodKilla posted:

I just bought dies to reload my 30carbine brass. Going for a super standard 110 bullet. Gonna do a 100 rounds and see how it goes.
I use Speers Plinker TMJs. They are cheap and accurate. I wanna say I ended up at 13.7gr H110. It cycles great including full auto. I reloaded a mixed bag of fired brass then bought 500pc of Starline. Use some lube even with carbide dies due to the taper.

Itís one of those great reloading bang for buck calibers.

E- I know you didnít ask about reloading it. Iím just enthusiastic about it as itís a very rewarding caliber

Also I measured the gunís chamber that I usually shoot and found the cases do not grow too long for it, though they are .005 past book trim. That was a trick a friend showed me which saves a ton of time as I donít have a fancy trimmer.

Loving all this carbine discussion. They are such great little guns to shoot and collect.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Apr 19, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

IBM M1. CMP gun, rearsenaled. It's the only gun out of the 6 total I've owned (I've sold 2) that I can say definitely went through a full rearsenal as it has a turned down crown.



Most of the parts are right. Correct barrel and sight


And the IBM sling


Then things go wrong. This was my first M1 so I learned with it. The safety was a rotating one. I found a KVB marked one (IBM) , bought it, put it in , then learned that A) the safety didn't look right as the stamped letters were not deep or uniform enough B) I sadly bought from this giant outfit in Cali that sells fakes as originals. They've been duping people for decades and I supported them drat it. Live and learn. Also I learned once the sight has been replaced there's really no point swapping stuff around imo.

Here's a really interesting one, a Quality HMC with the right sight.



But from there it's detective work with no solid payoff.

The barrel is a Rock-Ola! wow. I wanna say this sight is a postwar USGI replacement.



The lower, safety and all parts that are marked are also Rock-Ola! So it's a Quality gun with Rock-Ola parts. Sadly not ALL RO parts or one might be able to say that it was a receiver that made its way over to the factory.

Not sure if you can see the Rock Ola marking or not.


This is a high serial number Inland with all the parts correct for the time with a registered disconnector in it. pewpewpewpewpew


Barrel is correct wartime and better yet it gauges well and shoots really well.

Over all the carbine changes made over the development 2 or 3 were to help with accuracy and this has them. I've gauged all my carbines and the better the barrel, the better the groups without fail.



The Recoil Check works. It feels a bit more unwieldy in FA without it. Held at a bullseye on a sandbag full auto bursts will hit the bullseye then make a semicircle downward from point of aim.




Winchester. My most collectible. Everything on it is correct and original. The front sight clamp does not have a loop for the sling. This is the only thing wrong with the gun but it made me confident someone hadn't messed with it to 'make it right'.



The 'bullnose' shape of the handguard is neat as is the more squared off bottom of the stock.



W on the barrel.



Rough milled and silvery receiver with correct sight, not first production block but real drat early. Little crack in the stock there, no biggie to me.






The stock is dry. The CMP forums say DONT TOUCH THE WOOD. I dunno. One day I might put something on it.



The guy I bought it from said it came out of a veteran's estate in the Brooklyn and gave me his name which is also inked into the stock but it's hard to read. I could clean this off probably but I'll leave it.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 19, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

22 Eargesplitten posted:

drat, that's a lot of carbines. If you ever decide to sell one shoot me a PM. I don't know if I'll have the money at any given point, but an M1 is definitely up there on my fun guns list.

E: Cyrano, not trying to do sales on the forum, don't ban me. Sten and I live like an hour away from each other.
Most definitely will.

Iíd rather guys from here get them for sure

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Measure it. I think the book notes some were turned down by unscrupulous sellers to remove import marks.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

The carbine barrel bit in the book was more about turning down to apply fraudulent markings but here it is. Yours may just be a homegrown job as Cyrano suggested.

quote:

...use a caliper to measure the diameter of the barrel approximately one inch behind the front sight where you will find the manufacturer's marking. Original barrels measured from .597-.600 inch in diameter at this point.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Anyone here like really early classy .32 autos.

Check out the nitre blue and finish on this:


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/865281422

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

flightless greeb posted:

Argh!!! That's very me but I'm very broke.
We have similar tastes.

The more I look at it the more I want it. On the one hand it's approaching $500 but given the condition and age it's still fairly priced. It's got such neat lines and appearance but it's not too cherry to shoot and a bargain compared to the Colt autos from the period.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I think Cyranoís suggestion is solid for this stock. It is not only heavily stained with dirt and old oil and grease, but itís in fair condition. E- it looks like a proper M1 stock. No M2 selector cut. The sling cut, where it looks like a ramp, may say Trimble TN on it if it was the one the gun was likely issued with. If it were in better condition maybe you clean it with lemon oil only but itís past that point.

Itís marked with arsenal rebuild letters and the rear sight, safety and possibly mag release appear to have been replaced with updated parts. Front barrel band has been replaced with bayo style. So it is a rebuild, as the vast majority of carbines for sale are. Neat gun nevertheless but also lol at the unissued condition. The Marlin barrel is especially neat to me.

The fun part will be taking it apart and seeing how many NPM marked parts are inside. Looking at the bolt and all it really doesnít appear to have been fired a ton, maybe just carried a lot. Id love to know when they were sent and how they were fielded. The arsenal would have updated the sight, bayo lug and safety even if it was in great shape.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Apr 28, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

USGI carbines also will retain their value or increase as long as you buy them at a reasonable price. A used repro is going to be hard to sell for what you paid for it.

Original carbines are one of those milsurp guns that hit the intersection of fun to shoot and fun to collect. They are highly sought for a reason, despite 6 million+ of them being manufactured.

Anyone with some interest in WWII US small arms who enjoys shooting should buy one, doubly so if they reload as they reload easily for cheap.

The only reason to buy a modern one, and I'd personally prefer to find a super tired USGI one and have it re-barreled with one of the nice chrome barrels available( E: or better yet, find a replacement USGI barrel that muzzle gauges well), is if you are shooting for the best possible groups. A lot of barrels are well on their way to being shot out at this point. Going from memory but the count isn't that high, like 40k. If they've been through a war and kicked around afterwards for decades it's entirely possible they are there. I've had a few of them that shot poorly, like 6" at 25 yards. When I got a gauge I found muzzle diameter and accuracy corresponded with one another.

Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 28, 2020

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Great question. The Philippines are sitting on 600,000 MAP guns that they want to sell back to us. Korean reportedly has a ton too. God knows how many went to S Vietnam. Certainly the number is large but even if we only have ~15% in US civilian hands we're still talking about a million guns.

I wonder if War Baby goes into that type of info. I don't own it.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

flightless greeb posted:

can I get one more edit for the hilarious "Showshoe for cars" typo

my own edit: I checked War Baby Volume II and it does seem to list out various nations which received M1 carbines as military aid on page 523 "The Postwar Carbine as International Aid". Because I'm very bored I'm going to write them all down here:

Australia: 241
Belgium: 3
China and Hong Kong: Unknown number but definitely more than "a few"
Columbia: Some, unknown
Cuba: 5
Ecuador: 1
El Salvador: Some, unknown
France: 16,020 M1c's and 394 M1A1s
Germany: 6000 to Border Police
Guatemala: Some, unknown
Israel: Lots, unknown
South Korea: At least 6,000, probably more
Libya: 1 (lol)
Mexico: 463
Netherlands: 12
Norway: 1
USSR: 7
Vietnam: Unknown but at a minimum 100's of thousands, plus many of the French ones listed above.

Ethiopia and the Phillipines both aren't on the list so it's obviously incomplete.
This is interesting. And yes you all told me I needed to get War Baby like 5 years ago. :) One of these days.

Also I think we are close to seeing imported arms from Vietnam. Preposterous I know but Iíll be damned if China in their screw the world campaign is doing their best to push them into the USís orbit of influence.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

Cyrano4747 posted:

I can't imagine they're in good shape, between hard use and storage in a tropical nation.
I am sure we've had an exchange similar to this before, also about carbines from some other tropical nation, but I'm going to justpost anyway.

We must have shipped tons of arms there, both for their soldiers and ours. For every carbine that saw hard use by ARVN or our early forces plenty would have been stored away properly. I will say I noticed corrosive ammo effects way faster when I lived in FL, as in seeing rust form as you are loading them into the car leaving the range but just sticking a clean oiled gun on a rack in humidity isn't a problem.

It's not ideal but if the Vietnamese cared about preserving those guns, then I believe they would have done so.

LingcodKilla posted:

Vietnam would be an excellent allies. Good location, martial spirit, gorgeous women and seething historical hate for Chinas imperial ambition.

Also they have a ton of our old small arms to sell back to us.
I hope so on all accounts. The country and the people are awesome.

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Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

That seals the deal that it was rearsenaled. They also sand blasted and reparked them.

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