Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



New milsurp thread!!! I can't think of any effort posts worth making but if anyone knows anything about me, they know I like posting pics of my own guns at any opportunity. Here's my pitifully small milsurp collection at present!



Not actually one of the ONG 870s, just has the bayonet lug off one. But Vietnam inspired!



1918 Colt frame, WWII Remington Rand slide. An M1911/A1! Sucks to shoot but it looks cool at least!



~1918 C96 Mauser. Still has traces of nitre blue and works well whenever I get a chance to shoot it.



1890 produced S&W No. 3, marked with Japanese Navy anchor and lettered out as being sold straight from the factory to Japan. Currently missing a front sight (work in progress)



What is milsurp? This is a century receiver inch-pattern FAL with an Australian parts kit, an Israeli scope and new made american wood forend. Does it count??



'43 Springfield Armory Garand



If parts kits count I'm including this too! A Galil ARM made from some unknown South American parts on an Ohio Ordnance receiver. This gun has never successfully fired an entire magazine without issues and has been to two different gunsmiths for like 1.5 years of shop time.



Polish AKMS with a polish receiver and other small parts. This gun actually works despite also being hand assembled by a moron (me) ((finished by Two Rivers Arms))



Remington 513T Matchmaster with US Property stamp. Made in 1966 so likely used as a stateside trainer for Vietnam? Or maybe as an army competition rifle?



Berlin Luebecker Gewehr 43. Took a lot of hours and parts to get this old Russian Capture G43 back into firing shape but I done did it by gosh



Quality Hardware M1 Carbine, also from 1943. Works well, looks good, is great.

I also have 2-3 US Mil inspired AR15 clone guns but I'm not posting them here because that seems somehow gauche. But it does beg the question like what is milsurp really??

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



In the end the problem was this piece:



Took a long time to figure it out, but the bottom of the bolt carrier was so worn down it couldn't trip an unmodified hammer. Darrin Weaver sent me a new one and along with new springs and and a new hammer it now works alright (handguard still pops off but what can you do).

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Wheres your ZFK!!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Can't believe I missed that!! Also looks great! That's definitely a collection worthy of its own room.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Swedish Mausers from around the turn of the century have nitre blued bolt release levers like that, it's really neat.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Hopefully it goes to more retailers than just Classic!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I've got an Australian parts kit L1A1 on a century receiver so they are around. I also previously owned some American or English built revolvers that went to Australia as lend lease if that counts - you can find S&W 2nd Model Hand Ejectors and Enfield No. 2s marked properly although how hard they are to find is another matter.

If it were me tho I'd try and find an old WW1 Lithgow SMLE, got that Gallipoli cred and it's a good excuse to own an SMLE.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Im one of the people who shits on mosins constantly and when I hear an M44 described as "accurate, great sights and a perfect bolt" i have to think - has this person ever fired another gun??? For real though it sounds like that unfired Hungarian or whatever it is, is loads better than the 1943 dated M44 I once owned, which I would rank in the bottom 5% of rifles I've ever shot. Great to handle, fireballs and fun I would agree with though.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



If that's not clear, repro parts generally reduce the value of historical guns.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



DeesGrandpa posted:

I don't know that that's entirely accurate on these. From the accounts I've heard, the wood on a lot of these rack grade specials was utterly trashed, and the CMP wood on the rack grade specials brought them into a shootable condition. OG wood is great as long as it's sound, but once it isn't that's a bummer.

That's a fair point and while I'd never own one of these CMP specials myself it's good that they've found a way to get the gun into working order rather than just selling them as parts kits etc. In 20-30 years I imagine real service grades from the CMP and probably even Field Grades etc will be worth more than the ones with repro stocks on them, but then again I assume the ones with repro parts are cheaper.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Hey thanks for posting that. As you know I'm interested in snipers but know enough to never try to buy a real one. Idk if you read thru the whole thread but eventually no less than Dave Roberts came in to say he thinks it's actually real and a possible early LSR prototype. Most seem to disagree with him but apparently quite a few people were PMing the original poster to buy so there may be something there.

Essentially the grand picture I get is even experts have a hard time with some of these guns because Germany kind of did things slap dash with regressions and several different types of sniper system with little uniformity between makers, plus there is essentially no original documentation covering the process.

Honestly the only way I'd ever buy a German sniper is if it's advertised as fake in the ad (They mention RIA just sold a known fake LSR for $6100 so fakes can still very much be collectible) or else I'd want to hire someone like Dave Roberts to vet the gun for me. The waters are just too treacherous otherwise.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Let me just buy a Ross first so their prices dont sky rocket ok

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Too old for: computer

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



That's how I got a Ross Mk. II and a pristine Enfield No. 2 Revolver with holster once. Some goofy PA auction someone linked in here that had tiny 100x200 pixel images and 6 word descriptions for every gun. Wasn't a major site and not many people knew of it so the prices all staid pretty low. There were like 4 sniper rifles in that auction too and they all sold for low to middling repro prices, I chased each of them up but ended up not being able to afford any - still wonder if maybe I missed the deal of a life time there.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Huh, I've installed 3 of those kits but never actually thought to compare them before. That's especially funny considering one with the minimum gas settings is still capable of spitting brass several feet away.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Dang I want a Berthier since I think they look cool plus I bought that Ian book, but that looks just about twice as cool

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Thermos posted:

I've also wanted a Berthier for a while, but they tend to go for a lot in decent shape here and I'm sure Ian's book isn't helping with that. Forestry cabines range from $300-500 depending on condition.

I love the cavalry carbine look, but those also tend to be more rare and go for a lot more.




(Cool Cavalry Carbines ITT)

I used to have this cool looking M38 Carcano Cavalry Carbine



It was definitely neat to look at but sucked rear end in all other aspects. Heavy on recoil, literally and I do mean literally the worst trigger of any rifle I've ever shot, and a really clunky awful feeling bolt. They were cheap as heck back in the day though, according to my spreadsheet I picked it up for $150. Sold it for $200 later that year (2013) lol

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Cool post on reddit yesterday from a guy who owns a Solothurn (my ultimate yeah right buddy white whale) https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/frrmrp/2_cm_is_best_centimeter/ - he also owns a Lahti and apparently has more AT rifles than the Cody Firearms Museum lol

There's a clip of it being fired somewhere in there, plus he linked this article about a bank heist using a 20mm Lahti in the 1960s which I'd never heard of.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/15/shades-of-thunderbolt-lightfoot-the-20-mm-brinks-heist/

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Im not in IL but yeah I'd be surprised if they were actually correct and any IL laws were preventing them from shipping to someone outside IL. Even CA doesn't do that although I've definitely had to explain that to various dealers etc before.

My favorite experience was convincing some random podunk PA FFL that got handed my Ohio Ordnance BAR M1918 that I won in a carpet auction that the BAR was legal in CA since it is technically "featureless" and therefore not CA illegal lol

I think I literally just repeated everything 5 times and they finally believed me.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I bought a Type 99 with AA sights and a defaced but still visible 'mum off Gunbroker late last year as a wedding gift for a friend. There were an absolute ton of them on GB to choose from and plenty of cheap options, unless you want all the features described above - then it will tend to get a bit more expensive. I had no trouble finding 7.7mm PPU in stores locally but I do have access to a number of nicer stores that cater to older guns in the area.

Arisakas are probably going to be one of the last genuine WWII combat rifles to rise in price as, like Russian guns, they just haven't had the cachet that American and German guns often do here. Having owned a few Japanese and Russian WWII guns myself, I can kind of see why from a quality perspective lol

I think buying a DP Mk. III to use as a parts gun for a sporter is a neat idea, but it can certainly be a complicated and drawn out process. I wouldn't exactly expect to save money going that route, and certainly not time - it would just be a neat way to salvage two otherwise undesirable guns into one desirable one. Having started and abandoned any number of too daunting too expensive projects in my time, I myself would probably just save up and buy a nice No. 1 Mk. III to start with - but I've had the advantage of already owning a few in the past so I don't feel that pressure to get the thing in my hands right away.

flightless greeb fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Apr 10, 2020

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Lol thank you for posting and also creating that piece of TFR history b4ctom

Gunbroker is all about the saved search. Run one with a couple keywords that snags most of the guns you want, one for bolt action rifles and a separate one in C&R. Make liberal use of "-" phrases to eliminate auctions that sneak their way in that aren't rifles or aren't Arisakas.

GB is honestly the best place to find C&R guns online with possibly forums being second best. Educating yourself on what you want first is the most important thing, for me I mostly do research here and on specialty gun boards on common things to look out for and what various markings mean and so on. Idk what your familiarity level with milsurp is, but if you're still pretty new to it, getting more guns in your hands is the best bet.

During non pandemic times, visiting lots of gun stores can really help, especially if you can go with someone who knows what's up.

Eventually you'll develop a sense for when things look good but until then, at least for me, look for deals. Try and buy guns that are cheap enough you can flip them even if they turn out to be worse than described. Anyway feel free to ask questions here, there's a lot of stored up knowledge on the forums!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I'm bored so here's some links:

GunBoards Trader: https://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?75-The-Trader-WTS-and-WTT-listing-board&s=ea8ab5b4c9733d2474a2b7f6af43e925
Various milsurp of any stripe shows up here, for example I once bought a wartime Walther PPK for $400 because the pictures sucked, it had 0% finish and no magazines! Gear, guns, books, all kinds of nonsense shows up, including some super rare stuff from time to time. They have individual forums with a fair amount of expertise on various types of gun as well although I know there has also been some drama as often happens on these insular gun communities in the past which you can ask Gewehr43 about if you want to make him annoyed!!

You might not expect it but AR15.com aka arfcom does have a C&R sub forum on their equipment exchange that sees new posts fairly often, again random C&R of all kinds:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Curio-And-Relic/131/

The CMP has a forum as well with a lot of good knowledge on USGI, which includes a 'parts classifieds' that also sells guns, sort of confusingly named. Here's the one for the M1 Garand but there's one for M1 Carbines, M14s and 1903s as well:
https://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=87

Calguns, california's big firearms enthusiast forum, also has a C&R specific for sale board. Being the most populous state does have some advantages even if gun laws aren't one. A lot of stuff gets posted here and I've found any number of good deals here over the years, although a lot of people are leery about shipping.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=321

Here's the S&W forum classifieds, random non S&W stuff shows up here from time to time too.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/guns-sale-trade/

There's also armslist which I've found the most risky in regards to scams and of course gunbroker as previously mentioned, which is probably where I've found the majority of my great deals. Plus the RIA and other smaller auction houses you can find via proxibid. Expect at least 25% surcharge in additional fees if you go that route though.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



That thread you linked on that K98k Sniper was like the perfect example where a bunch of experts got into it and in the end, the original poster was labeled a measly skunk and told to get lost, pal, with a side of innuendo about behind the scenes PMs and various other forms of hostility.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



LimburgLimbo posted:

Early Arisaka are very high quality guns though; well made and with a good design. But many of them have either seen hard use or are later versions where they're cutting quality to the bone.

The one I bought recently was early enough to have all the old timey features like AA Sights and a monopod, but maybe one day I'll run into a nicely preserved early one.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Yall are making me want to try and find an early Type 38. Are there any give aways for those when I'm looking at low res poorly lit gunbroker pictures?

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Somebody Awful posted:

AFAIK telling early vs late Type 38 is only doable to a rough degree. Earlier T38s have a V-notch rear sight and were nearly all made by Koishikawa (same stacked cannonball logo as Kokura) in a continuous serial range up to about 2.2 million with no series mark. Supposedly there was a limited no-series run at Nagoya tacked onto the end of the Koishikawa serial range but I don't think I've seen any for sale. Late ones will have series marks, wings on the front sight, and an aperture rear sight like the Type 99, and were produced by both Kokura and Nagoya.

Awesome thanks, that's exactly the info I was looking for.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Probably a lot of you got this email just like I did this morning, but just in case, Ian McCollum's company has a new book on kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/headstamp/thorneycroft-to-sa80-british-bullpup-firearms-19012020?ref=thanks-copy

It's by a British author this time and is about the development of British Bullpup rifles from the 1900s to now, a longer history than I knew of. Looks like it's of similar quality to Ian's book which is good enough for me!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Which one? I missed out on the Kreigsmodell K98k book and they're out of print now and I don't even give a poo poo about Kreigsmodells at all but I have the other 3 books so it's pissing me off!! lol

Edit: also yeah I dont really give a hoot about British bull-pups since it's not a type of gun I'm ever going to own or likely even handle. That said, the book itself just looks so cool and if they keep this up I'd love to have a shelf of these similarly designed books one day! I really want a Ross book out of them in this style or maybe Canadian small arms would be more on point since it seems like they're generally covering longer time periods.

flightless greeb fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Apr 13, 2020

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Cyrano4747 posted:

Jon Speed’s book on Mauser Sporters: Mauser: Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles https://www.amazon.com/dp/0889352305/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_inhLEbZGBTG2A

That copy is actually half way reasonable in price.

Ahhh neat. I wonder if collector grade was like the headstamp publishing of its day

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I'm in a group photo mood maybe I'll take a group pic of all my gun reference books like a colossal nerd later

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Yeah if you can post a top down pic of that front scope mount, might be something legible there.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Gorgeous photo!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Oh thats very good indeed!!

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Yeah in all my years I don't think I've run across more than a handful of scams on gunbroker, primarily I think because of the buyer and seller rating. The worse I've had happen there is a gun not being quite as described which isn't surprising really and obviously happens with shops like classic arms et al anyway.

Vs Armslist where you basically have to treat every deal as a scam going in and do research to prove its not. I would never buy anything on Armslist that involved mailing out a payment without a ton of due diligence and I've yet to run across a deal there where you could use a credit card. I'm mostly into old guns tho and am often buying from random old men who don't know how to use the internet, so I'm used to the whole money order thing.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



C96 also often requested and extremely guilty of the same

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



post the carbinest pics you got



flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Looks awesome! Also good to see you're still around! Were you out hunting for these or did you happen across an opportunity?

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Ugh I'm like the only gun owner any of my friends know pretty much I'm just waiting for that day to come lol - awesome find for sure though. I'm guessing you've already got other Lugers/P38s?

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Which one is this

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



Is this the proof mark? Why dont I know more about these after all these years??

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply