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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The fan consensus on Evangelion is that it’s a very deeply emotional show about depression or something, with cool random nonsense visuals. Those wacky Japanese just threw some Bible imagery in there to seem exotic. It looks Western, but its true meaning is... inscrutable. Your interpretation isn't necessarily correct. Even if the creators themselves said the Christian imagery was purposeful and not purely aesthetic (they themselves have claimed the exact opposite), it doesn't discount the existence of multiple interpretations. Most anime fans certainly view Eva or any given anime as a unit of consumption without any critical analysis at all, but people wishing to engage with the work critically will come up with multiple interpretations because the show supports them. For example, the angels could be angels, or they could be physical representations of abuse, or they could be interdimensional monsters of the week, or they could be foils to the characters' interpersonal conflicts. You can make textually-supported arguments for all of these, just like you could say the "point" of the show isn't just "fascism is bad." quote:And I’ve observed the same with, like, Annihilation. You’ll see people calling it a masterpiece of science fiction without being able to follow the story on a rudimentary level. It’s partly due to Garland being a writer who isn’t particularly adept at the visual side of storytelling, but also a fault of people seduced by ‘high art’ signifiers. As with the ‘inscrutable’ Evangelion, fans wonder at the impenetrable depths ‘behind’ the images - when he’s actually just botched a depiction of how genes work. It’s genuinely pretentious. What's pretentious is being fixed on the notion that certain art can only have one correct interpretation, and that penetrative interpretation of some art is invalid because you personally have dismissed that art as surface level or poorly constructed.
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Jul 14, 2020 13:18
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The Klowner posted:Your interpretation isn't necessarily correct. Even if the creators themselves said the Christian imagery was purposeful and not purely aesthetic (they themselves have claimed the exact opposite), it doesn't discount the existence of multiple interpretations.
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Jul 14, 2020 13:48
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Never watched Evangelion, but SMG is more or less right about Annihilation. It's constantly trying to evoke deeper meaning without putting in the work of earning it.
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Jul 14, 2020 13:50
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Skwirl posted:This is cool, just a massive amount of background material, including tons of storyboards, concept art and 11 different drafts of the script spanning more than a decade.
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Jul 14, 2020 13:53
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I've only seen a couple episodes of that show years ago, but why did the kid's sexy nanny have a penguin
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Jul 14, 2020 14:13
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The Peccadillo posted:I've only seen a couple episodes of that show but why did the kid's sexy nanny have a penguin You mean the military officer in charge of the child soldiers. The answer, like everything else in anime, is the always reliable “actually Pen Pen is a genetically modified hyper intelligent penguin that she adopted instead of letting it be killed”
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Jul 14, 2020 14:14
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The Peccadillo posted:I've only seen a couple episodes of that show but why did the kid's sexy nanny have a penguin I don't think that was ever explained.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:15
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:You mean the military officer in charge of the child soldiers. That sounds like there'd be even stricter rules about loving about with penguins with 'em
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Jul 14, 2020 14:17
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I Before E posted:I don't think that was ever explained. Said Penguins turned out to be assholes, basically more independent than Cats, and the project was promptly terminated. (Or, Anime needs cute mascots to sell poo poo).
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Jul 14, 2020 14:32
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:You mean the military officer in charge of the child soldiers. The Peccadillo posted:That sounds like there'd be even stricter rules about loving about with penguins with 'em
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Jul 14, 2020 14:35
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Like Akira and Redline, all of the Eva stuff is the exception to anime being blood and everyone should probably watch it, if at least for the pure feeling of "what the gently caress"ness that comes watching End of Evangelion for the first time. Its like the first hit of black tar heroin, you'll never get that high again.
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Jul 14, 2020 14:45
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The Klowner posted:Your interpretation isn't necessarily correct. Even if the creators themselves said the Christian imagery was purposeful and not purely aesthetic (they themselves have claimed the exact opposite), it doesn't discount the existence of multiple interpretations. Most anime fans certainly view Eva or any given anime as a unit of consumption without any critical analysis at all, but people wishing to engage with the work critically will come up with multiple interpretations because the show supports them. For example, the angels could be angels, or they could be physical representations of abuse, or they could be interdimensional monsters of the week, or they could be foils to the characters' interpersonal conflicts. You can make textually-supported arguments for all of these, just like you could say the "point" of the show isn't just "fascism is bad." I think all the christian stuff mighta been accidentally more on point than they thought given they just grabbed a bunch of symbols and names for stuff and used them surprisingly straightforwardly once you get past the crazy designs. (and of course, biblical angels were just as hosed up as EVA ones sometimes) Though I still say a lot of it is basically having to construct a scenario for why exactly you need a giant mecha piloted by teenagers to fight alien invaders against whom conventional weapons are somehow useless, and deciding to make the reasons as hosed up as possible. Also trying to show up how messed up anime sexual mores are, especially since it basically takes seriously the usual anime premise where almost the entire cast desperately wants to gently caress each other but there's never actual mutual attraction and no one ever actually gets laid. Unfortunately that just made the primary audience of horny teenagers even more horny for all the characters, including the ones intended to be creepy. Halloween Jack posted:Part of her job as a military officer in charge of the child soldiers is being a sexy nanny. Also possibly the joke that in this show even the quirky animal sidekick has a tragic backstory.
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Jul 14, 2020 15:40
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Empress Brosephine posted:What's a good rainy day movie ie a movie that that the sound of rain can help set the mood etc? The only one I can think of is Changing Lanes :/ Dark Water.
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Jul 14, 2020 16:15
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Return of the Living Dead!
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Jul 14, 2020 16:29
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Halloween Jack posted:Like a million other people, I was obsessed with Evangelion as a teenager, so I can so: the problem is that the competing interpretations are very bad. Actually, it's worse: they aren't really interpretations of anything, just a lot of spotting references and drawing connections, without ever adding up to a real analysis. As an example of this: because fascist Shinji is vaguely feminine and sad in highschool, the show apparently has a sizeable queer following online. (A chicken-or-egg situation with the Jesus ‘shipping, I guess.) So, go back to the part I noted, where the giant demon in the form of his dead mother tries to seduce him into being absorbed into her body. One fan interpretation is that this means Shinji wants to become a girl, so Shinji is trans! Cue a bunch of fanart of Shinji with breasts. Like, I’d be down if that were going on, but there are literally multiple scenes in the show where Shinji gets uploaded into the matrix, and he invariably identifies as male - male avatar, etc. The ambiguously-gendered person who does identify as female is the ginormous demon. But, more importantly, this misreading basically unwittingly says that trans people become that way due to debilitating mommy issues. It’s like saying Marty McFly is a transwoman because she wants to obliterate herself in the incestuous vortex of sex with her mom. Problematic! I understand the need for representation, but it’s also important to identify what isn’t representation. Evangelion itself is basically just a less-successful version of Michael Bay’s Transformers, but fans - who don’t actually like the show - mentally edit out the satire of fascism, and the part where the protagonist kills Jesus (and so-on), to create an entirely new and distinct series of works. This is the same mechanism through which, taken to the extreme, a bad movie like The Lorax is swiftly replaced with reams of twincest porn. People can claim to be fans of “The Lorax”, but “The Lorax” has effectively become a euphemism for jacking off. If I say it’s just a bad movie about corporate environmentalism, the response is probably “that’s just your interpretation.” SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 16:35
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Gripweed posted:If you want Evangelion with the ending songs and not de-gayed, you're only option is DVDs Gripweed you fool you opened the CHAMBER OF GUF and have doomed the thread to 5 pages of Anime derails and SMG flailing!
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Jul 14, 2020 17:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is the same mechanism through which, taken to the extreme, a bad movie like The Lorax is swiftly replaced with reams of twincest porn. People can claim to be fans of “The Lorax”, but “The Lorax” has effectively become a euphemism for jacking off. If I say it’s just a bad movie about corporate environmentalism, the response is probably “that’s just your interpretation.” oh poo poo smg is big joel confirmed
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Jul 14, 2020 17:10
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CelticPredator posted:Predators is pretty good. Not as good as Predator 2, but nothing really is. It was so boring, so incredibly boring. The only good bits were any that had Laurence Fishburne who of course is killed off immediately. Otherwise it was all dull And the predator 201x was horrible. It was so clean looking and boring looking and stupid, it felt like a low budget sci fi original movie
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Jul 14, 2020 17:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is the same mechanism through which, taken to the extreme, a bad movie like The Lorax is swiftly replaced with reams of twincest porn. People can claim to be fans of “The Lorax”, but “The Lorax” has effectively become a euphemism for jacking off. If I say it’s just a bad movie about corporate environmentalism, the response is probably “that’s just your interpretation.” Say what now?
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Jul 14, 2020 17:34
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I can’t believe I have to say this: do not discuss “The Lorax” here.
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Jul 14, 2020 17:35
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Anonymous Robot posted:I can’t believe I have to say this: do not discuss “The Lorax” here. How bad could it be?
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Jul 14, 2020 18:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Say what now? It's less twincest than clone porn but outside of that it's exactly what it sounds like.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:25
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Say what now? Ok so, (and I’m very sorry about this) there’s an enormous brony-type fandom around The Lorax - specifically “The Onceler”, the teen rockstar CEO antiprotagonist who’s responsible for the devastation of the ecosystem. (Not coincidentally, this character has a lot in common with Shinji). So tons of people online, mostly women, are just incredibly hot for this character because he’s just so sad and guilty about the devastation he’s caused. It’s not in the sense that they want to gently caress The Onceler, though, but in the sense that they fetishize homosexual relationships. With Loki in the Thor movies, or that show Supernatural, they can imagine that he’s found perfect ecstatic bliss in the arms of his brother - but Onceler doesn’t have a brother, so the solution was to give him a twin (or, often, more than one twin). This is an extreme example of fandom, but it’s also a really good example of how all fandom works. The film itself is almost completely arbitrary, because they’re imagining an entirely different film that doesn’t actually exist, where they initiate a utopia through the ultimate perpetual orgasm. The purpose of fan-fiction is to stoke desire for this ultimate, impossible film experience. In less extreme cases, this means fan-editing Prometheus to remove all the references to Christianity, fan-editing the Star Wars films to remove the lower-class and ethnic characters, etc. With Evangelion fandom, you have that same curious impulse to eliminate Christ from the narrative. Weird how that keeps happening. But what they’re fans of is not the actual Evangelion TV series, but the idea of a TV series like Evangelion that’s entirely different & everyone’s just going around harmlessly playing videogames and exploring their sexualities.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:31
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:As an example of this: because fascist Shinji is vaguely feminine and sad in highschool, the show apparently has a sizeable queer following online. (A chicken-or-egg situation with the Jesus ‘shipping, I guess.) I can see why people got mad at you in the Evangelion thread
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Jul 14, 2020 18:33
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:“The Onceler”, the teen rockstar CEO antiprotagonist who’s responsible for the devastation of the ecosystem. (Not coincidentally, this character has a lot in common with Shinji).  What.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:40
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"My opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is wrong" is already a pretty obnoxious position, but "my opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is a soft-brained queer" is a whole other level.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But what they’re fans of is not the actual Evangelion TV series, but the idea of a TV series like Evangelion that’s entirely different & everyone’s just going around harmlessly playing videogames and exploring their sexualities. I think it doesn't help this describes... like, the base concept of fandom in general and fanfiction in particular, but pretty much an entire particularly pandering genre or two of anime and adjacent products. Like, high school AUs. Which EVA's merchandising eagerly panders to. If the anime doesn't have at least a high school adjacent setting they'll invent one for merchandise. (see One Piece, though they're clearly at least having some fun with that) Bronies are just an example of every aspect of this mentality coming home to roost in a show that uses anime stylings to make a cartoon for girls that rises above the extremely low standards of originality and variety they have compared to boy-oriented shows, as well as I'm pretty sure attracting a bunch of Sonic fans who got bored after the franchise had stopped introducing new waifus and were already driven half insane over colourful cartoon animals.
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Jul 14, 2020 18:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ok so, 
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Jul 14, 2020 18:53
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Gripweed posted:I can see why people got mad at you in the Evangelion thread You'opened the four gates of Hell, CineD chat. Begin the Skydertalk and open the 5th!
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Jul 14, 2020 18:56
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FilthyImp posted:You'opened the four gates of Hell, CineD chat. nobody said anything about Fate yet though?
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Jul 14, 2020 19:21
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Gripweed posted:"My opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is wrong" is already a pretty obnoxious position, but "my opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is a soft-brained queer" is a whole other level. Mods, pls change my username to soft-brained queer.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:29
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caligulamprey posted:
Whatever you think about the rest of his post, SMG's not wrong about that being a thing. I would post art, but I'm not going to and you can do your own image search if you don't believe it's real.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think it doesn't help this describes... like, the base concept of fandom in general and fanfiction in particular, but pretty much an entire particularly pandering genre or two of anime and adjacent products. Like, high school AUs. Which EVA's merchandising eagerly panders to. If the anime doesn't have at least a high school adjacent setting they'll invent one for merchandise. (see One Piece, though they're clearly at least having some fun with that) Gripweed posted:"My opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is wrong" is already a pretty obnoxious position, but "my opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is a soft-brained queer" is a whole other level. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 19:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ok so, That's a good explanation, thank you.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:37
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Sir Kodiak posted:Whatever you think about the rest of his post, SMG's not wrong about that being a thing. I would post art, but I'm not going to and you can do your own image search if you don't believe it's real. The mind boggles.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:37
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Halloween Jack posted:It's not contained to anime or even to animation. So much of the discussion of the Star Wars ST veered off into these weird rabbit holes where Holdo is an SJW and Kylo Ren is a Gamergater and Leia is the high school principal. Or has been mentioned, the mountains of incest fanfiction about the main characters in Supernatural. To the point the actors real life wives had to completely disappear from social media because of the abuse of fans.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:40
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Onceler porn was a huge thing when the movie came out in 2012 but died a year later, so it’s confusing to refer to it as a thing that still goes on. I’m sure some wacky people on the internet are still doing it but that’s like how I’m sure there’s still some people still seeking justice against Joseph Kony, or posting on Something Awful in 2020
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Jul 14, 2020 19:41
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What is happening in this thread  e: this is what happens when you bring up anime 
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Jul 14, 2020 19:43
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Gripweed posted:"My opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is wrong" is already a pretty obnoxious position, but "my opinion is the correct one, anyone who disagrees is a soft-brained queer" is a whole other level. huh? Halloween Jack posted:It's not contained to anime or even to animation. So much of the discussion of the Star Wars ST veered off into these weird rabbit holes where Holdo is an SJW and Kylo Ren is a Gamergater and Leia is the high school principal. It's certainly no coincidence that all of this serves to make the characters safer and more fuckable, maximizing their potential as Brands that you can have a Relationship with. One thinks of the outrage over Aunt Jemima getting Canceled
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Jul 14, 2020 19:46
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feedmyleg posted:What is happening in this thread That’s why I avoid it like the plague. So I can’t follow conversations about it. It hardly makes me feel “gosh, I should check out this anime they’re discussing!”
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Jul 14, 2020 20:03
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