Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«50 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I TRUST JOE BIDEN AND THE DEMS


The thing about the moderator part of this is that you shouldn't need any specific argument or justification to de-mod someone (though there is one in this case). If most people on a forum don't like the person modding them, that is enough to replace them. It isn't the same as a punishment like banning someone or whatever - it's just removing authority that they have in excess of other users.

In a situation like this, the burden should be on the mods to explain why C-SPAM shouldn't be made a top level subforum, or why PPJ/logik shouldn't be de-modded.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Main Paineframe posted:

if the last couple weeks have shown anything, it's that no one will actually be happy with this unless it results in the admins saying "you're right, sorry, we were wrong about everything"

plenty of IKs, mods, and even the occasional admin or two have come into threads like this over the last couple of weeks to give their thoughts and justifications and positions. yet the threads are still happening. so clearly this isn't really a lack of communication, so much as it is people not being satisfied with the answers they get and refusing to accept the arguments given for those answers

Yes, plenty of people have come by to drop their explanations and justifications. And then leave again.

And plenty of people have responded to those explanations and justifications and been ignored.

And plenty of other people have ignored those explanations and justifications because screaming into the wind somehow feels more useful and satisfying, I guess.

And plenty of other people have used this as an opportunity to start some goddamn fires.

At no point has the sort of actual conversation that needs to happen, happened. Where people talk to, rather than at, each other, and where people get over their bullshit and find a way to make this work. (And that can't be one-sided; we've all got bullshit to get over at this point.)

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007



we only ask that calinbabel be made mod fo D&D. please. for the people

Anukis
Jan 23, 2006

I'm an empathetic, sensitive, educated, intellectually curious non-idiot. Hi.


Honey Trap Queen posted:

More like TGRS has a mod that advocates for her posters

That sounds horrible.

Homeless Friend posted:

we only ask that calinbabel be made mod fo D&D. please. for the people

More people are saying this

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold





Grapplejack posted:

You'd have to ask Jeffrey since he has SA code access right now and it has to be done in the CSS, for some reason.

lmao god loving drat radium

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



If we had PPJ Blascowitz on the case, why did it take so long to ban them/why did their posts have to be pointed out in painstaking detail by a CIVILIAN USER? Did you guys forget to send him ammo packs or something

Bear Retrieval Unit
Nov 5, 2009



Mudslide Experiment

*checks qcs*
no posts in almost a month, forums must be running so smoothly.

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005




Honey Trap Queen posted:

More like TGRS has a mod that advocates for her posters

This is it, yes.

Our mods have consistently shown that they won't do poo poo for this community.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold





Solid Poopsnake posted:

Let's assume this is correct and PPJ is innocent and we're all just being hysterical. Why can't C-SPAM simply be made a top-level forum? That solves the problem just as easily from a mechanical standpoint. What's the specific reason?

yeah i'd be fine with this. granted after the discovery of the load-bearing slur i would not be surprised if doing so explodes the server

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yeah i'd be fine with this. granted after the discovery of the load-bearing slur i would not be surprised if doing so explodes the server

wait was there seriously a load-bearing slur? I assumed that was just a joke

Bushido Brown
Mar 30, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

Main Paineframe posted:

if the last couple weeks have shown anything, it's that no one will actually be happy with this unless it results in the admins saying "you're right, sorry, we were wrong about everything"

plenty of IKs, mods, and even the occasional admin or two have come into threads like this over the last couple of weeks to give their thoughts and justifications and positions. yet the threads are still happening. so clearly this isn't really a lack of communication, so much as it is people not being satisfied with the answers they get and refusing to accept the arguments given for those answers

The only "arguments" defending PPJ are that he helped in a suicide scare, tracked some bad goons, and is nice on discord.

The only "arguments" I've seen about dickeye and crazy cloud are that they're annoying and not worth the hassle.

I've never seen an "argument" for not making C-SPAM top level.

I've never seen an explanation for the turnaround on dickeye's probation, unprobation, and ultimate banning, other than a single post mea culpa.

The only explanation for Nichael not being modded is that he probated a user by request who was subsequently banned.

Even if it doesn't seem like it to decorous D&D posters and SA moderators, I don't think most people here want to fight or get off on it.

I think people are sad that lovely things happened to posters they like, and they're confused about how and why things went down, and, because moderator responses have been hamfisted at best, things keep getting worse.

I truly, sincerely hope that things reach homeostasis again. But don't blame the broad userbase for reeling after being shaken.

Cloaked
Sep 30, 2009




Pillbug

https://twitter.com/dril/status/247222360309121024?s=20

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016



ok forget PPJ

So why can't we have our own mods and IKs?

Why can't we be made top level?

Why is retaliation being made against people who are raising concerns?

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Oh, a reminder since I saw it in passing in one of the now-gassed threads, BENGHAZI 2 prefers not to be called Dickeye these days, apparently.

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



Bushido Brown posted:

The only "arguments" defending PPJ are that he helped in a suicide scare, tracked some bad goons, and is nice on discord.

The only "arguments" I've seen about dickeye and crazy cloud are that they're annoying and not worth the hassle.

I've never seen an "argument" for not making C-SPAM top level.

I've never seen an explanation for the turnaround on dickeye's probation, unprobation, and ultimate banning, other than a single post mea culpa.

The only explanation for Nichael not being modded is that he probated a user by request who was subsequently banned.

Even if it doesn't seem like it to decorous D&D posters and SA moderators, I don't think most people here want to fight or get off on it.

I think people are sad that lovely things happened to posters they like, and they're confused about how and why things went down, and, because moderator responses have been hamfisted at best, things keep getting worse.

I truly, sincerely hope that things reach homeostasis again. But don't blame the broad userbase for reeling after being shaken.

I would honestly like to go back to reading my funny internet book that people post in, but it's been severely disrupted by the actions of the mod and admin teams in the past 2-3 months.

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!


it's plain that the mod team is approaching all this as a siege against them and are responding with solidarity. that was the point of the stickied announcement—we as mods collectively are all sticking together, no we're not going to reconsider any of our actions, yes you can have a name change as a sop

the name change is a great punchline

Fly Molo
May 7, 2007






Grapplejack posted:

And yet they were more than happy to go into TGRS and talk to them, repeatedly, including several admins when asked.

yeah it’s loving crazy how over there, mods and admins actually answer their questions and don’t gas and lock the thread repeatedly and ban all the vocal posters. and they’re not furious? weird.

get ready for another pronouncement, and more gassed threads and banned posters. surely this time that’ll fix things!

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

I honestly don't care about C-SPAM being or not being a top-level forum. I'm way more fired up about the permabans and the way that response was handled.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT JOE BIDEN YELLING


Are CSPAM IKs seriously not allowed to 6er assholes when they feel like it? When did that rule change?

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

the hilarious thing being that something as simple as "oops I was heated and hosed up, I'll be better about using my buttons when pissed" would have fixed this but no gotta have testimony on character as proof that surely this paragon of moderation could never ever make a mistake




lol

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold





docbeard posted:

wait was there seriously a load-bearing slur? I assumed that was just a joke

yes, for some reason when viewing the ban page as a logged-out user it addressed you as "UNREGISTERED F-SLUR." when this was removed, users that were logged out could no longer log back in for a day

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I TRUST JOE BIDEN AND THE DEMS


Raskolnikov38 posted:

i think the correct answer is that the admins do not believe PPJ has done anything deserving of removing moderating powers other than telling him to ignore CSPAM. somewhat similar to when FAU didn't remove my IK buttons after the perma incident and instead sent a reprimand via PM. and then i lost the buttons a month later anyway for unknown reasons

In that case the obvious alternative solution is to make C-SPAM a top-level forum, since as long as C-SPAM is a subforum for D&D he effectively retains those powers and there will always be distrust.

And like I said, your framing doesn't make sense - the logic shouldn't be "this person should be a mod unless other mods agree they deserved to be de-modded." Simply having more users wanting them to step down than feel otherwise should suffice. It's not like they were born a mod and being de-modded is a punishment that must be justified. "People don't want this person to be a mod" is reason enough.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Grimey Drawer

docbeard posted:

wait was there seriously a load-bearing slur? I assumed that was just a joke

Yeah the paywall checked if you were an "unregistered <f-slur>" and changing the slur broke things lmao

Fly Molo
May 7, 2007






Bushido Brown posted:

The only "arguments" defending PPJ are that he helped in a suicide scare, tracked some bad goons, and is nice on discord.

The only "arguments" I've seen about dickeye and crazy cloud are that they're annoying and not worth the hassle.

I've never seen an "argument" for not making C-SPAM top level.

I've never seen an explanation for the turnaround on dickeye's probation, unprobation, and ultimate banning, other than a single post mea culpa.

The only explanation for Nichael not being modded is that he probated a user by request who was subsequently banned.

Even if it doesn't seem like it to decorous D&D posters and SA moderators, I don't think most people here want to fight or get off on it.

I think people are sad that lovely things happened to posters they like, and they're confused about how and why things went down, and, because moderator responses have been hamfisted at best, things keep getting worse.

I truly, sincerely hope that things reach homeostasis again. But don't blame the broad userbase for reeling after being shaken.

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005




If the issue is that folks are afraid of just being swamped I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to delegate to a few posters in an open, public conversation.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016



Even DnD got pissed with PPJ

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Grimey Drawer

Phi230 posted:

ok forget PPJ

So why can't we have our own mods and IKs?

Why can't we be made top level?

Why is retaliation being made against people who are raising concerns?

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

docbeard posted:

wait was there seriously a load-bearing slur? I assumed that was just a joke

This came up in one of the other threads but allegedly there's still code returning an error of "you are a f****t" and no one knows what causes it.

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007



imperialist forums are mobilizing against the praxis of good

Anukis
Jan 23, 2006

I'm an empathetic, sensitive, educated, intellectually curious non-idiot. Hi.


Space Skeleton posted:

Too bad there is no way to stop everyone from getting worked up into an unruly mob about no one saying anything substantial.



Valleyant posted:

I would honestly like to go back to reading my funny internet book that people post in, but it's been severely disrupted by the actions of the mod and admin teams in the past 2-3 months.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016



Oh Snapple! posted:

If the issue is that folks are afraid of just being swamped I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to delegate to a few posters in an open, public conversation.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yes, for some reason when viewing the ban page as a logged-out user it addressed you as "UNREGISTERED F-SLUR." when this was removed, users that were logged out could no longer log back in for a day

gently caress me, it's a wonder that nothing's actually on fire, I guess

Fly Molo
May 7, 2007






Oh Snapple! posted:

If the issue is that folks are afraid of just being swamped I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to delegate to a few posters in an open, public conversation.

Benghazi 2 took the lead on that in the truth and reconciliation thread. that’s why she got permabanned.

dissent is not tolerated, at all.

Fly Molo fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 7, 2020

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

Phi230 posted:

Even DnD got pissed with PPJ

yea, this is the thing. if the subforum you're modding doesn't trust you to do your job then you shouldn't mod that subforum, especially not one supposedly dedicated to debate

if ppj needs buttons that desperately you can always move him to some other subforum where his saint-like qualities can come in handy

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Grimey Drawer

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

the hilarious thing being that something as simple as "oops I was heated and hosed up, I'll be better about using my buttons when pissed" would have fixed this but no gotta have testimony on character as proof that surely this paragon of moderation could never ever make a mistake

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



I can't wait for jeffrey to post. Do you think he got his mattress out of the pool yet

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




Hopkins FBI posted:

PPJ Blazkowicz

Hi I just want to say that I found this extremely funny, and it continues to be funny even assuming PPJ is doing that stuff, which I have no reason to doubt since I trust Koala's March on that. Still funny, on this comedy forum.

Oh Snapple! posted:

If the issue is that folks are afraid of just being swamped I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to delegate to a few posters in an open, public conversation.

Just have Wampa talk to them, he actually looks like he represents the posters here and he's already IK so he's in a better position to talk about it Send Nichaels too

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

At least this one hasn't immediately been gassed. That's either progress or Reene is on lunch or something.

Hopkins FBI
Jan 4, 2015

MY SACRED POSTING VOW IS NOTHING, FOR WHILE I STAKED MY HONOR UPON MY COMMITMENT TO NEVER SUPPORT JOSEPH R. B. JUNIOR I HAVE SCANDALOUSLY ABANDONED MY PRINCIPLES


Zoran posted:

it's plain that the mod team is approaching all this as a siege against them and are responding with solidarity. that was the point of the stickied announcement—we as mods collectively are all sticking together, no we're not going to reconsider any of our actions, yes you can have a name change as a sop

the name change is a great punchline
Especially since the name was chosen in a thread by unjustly banned poster Lastgirl.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Anukis
Jan 23, 2006

I'm an empathetic, sensitive, educated, intellectually curious non-idiot. Hi.


This song goes out to everyone's* favorite mod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GbAUiTzLIU

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«50 »