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Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

There ain't no need for ya
There ain't no need for ya
Go straight to hell, boys


Turdfuzz posted:

Interesting night.

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THS
Sep 15, 2017



Fallen Rib

to paraphrase Lenin: there are years where nothing happens; and there are hours where years happen

Hopkins FBI
Jan 4, 2015

MY SACRED POSTING VOW IS NOTHING, FOR WHILE I STAKED MY HONOR UPON MY COMMITMENT TO NEVER SUPPORT JOSEPH R. B. JUNIOR I HAVE SCANDALOUSLY ABANDONED MY PRINCIPLES


Jeff is a mess. Jeff is a waste. Jeff is a big fat mistake.

Gulping Again
Mar 10, 2007
It's ham, Jonathan! Do you understand? Ham!

StratGoatCom posted:

This operation is a failure, and literally nothing can be trusted from it, Koala. Indeed, treating anything from it as credible may end up endangering you or others.

1994 Toyota Celica
Sep 11, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo


using his own name is stupid even from the position of a turned agent

if he'd posted on that discord under a different name, the leaked photos couldn't have identified him as Jones

he doesn't say anything in those posts that indicates he's a something awful mod, or that he's dealing info or anything. under a different name those would just be anonymous racist posts

the moron just used his fav handle in both places.

e: you can change your discord display name on a whim, it's just shockingly dumb

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



Also, I'm the mod that claims to be for the marginalized but throws them under the bus to protect my undercover nazi friend

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001
In the future, please don't post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.


HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




If you Discord, take it
I should have said it before
Tried to hide it, fake it
I can't pretend anymore

I only want to Fash alot
Never by the hands of a broken mod
I don't want you to see me lie tonight
Scrubbing logs of becoming who I really am

This is the post when I say I don't know, yuh
I probated myself two weeks for cuz
This is the part when I'm Nazi
'Cause I can't resist it no more

Terrorist Fistbump
Jan 29, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo



Ready to catch some Nazis on our first day of school!

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009



Rocket jumping?
That sounds dangerous...





Dinosaur Gum

Varinn posted:

no sorry fyad deserved what they got they dont get to piggyback on this

FYAD was posting hitler memes while CSPAM was unearthing nazi mods, keep fyad closed and give cspam it's spot on the main board

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016



playing phantom doctrine connecting the strings . . .

mods knew . . . PPJ . . . nazi discord . . . shalashaska . . .

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



Boba Pearl
Dec 27, 2019

Yellow Pearl, Blue Pearl, Pink Pearl

Boba Pearl.




redneck nazgul posted:

Remember when I said that the first thing anyone says if you get approached by a spy is "CALL THE loving FEDS, DON'T DO ANYTHING"?

There's a few reasons for that.

1. You are likely not trained in counterintelligence. They are.

The person trying to get information out of you is trained to get information out of people while keeping theirs. You are likely not trained in how to see that coming, let alone get information out of them. This means that they are a few chess moves ahead of you while you're sitting there trying to figure out whether you want to be the red or black checkers. You're already at a disadvantage.

2. The fact that you're talking to them is enough for them to work with.

If you decide that you're smart enough to go ahead and play along or feed them bad information, they already have some record of you chatting with the spy. Now they can use that as leverage to get you to actually provide information, since you're basically compromised at this point and can lose your job or position. At that point, they don't even have to try and bribe you or appeal to your ego/ideology/hatred for your country.

3. You have no leverage to make them go away, except by calling the cops before it even starts.

Seriously. If you're willing to play ball, they will continue playing ball and tugging until you're no longer useful. If you start out giving them things and then go "oh god, maybe I don't want to be a spy any more", congratulations, you're still guilty of espionage for everything you've already done. They can use that to keep you in the game.

4. A lot of espionage starts out as you having a friend to exploit the fact that you're friends.

Seriously. It's not some super attractive person with a hint of an accent sliding up to you in a bar and asking what you do for a living. It's a friend of a friend who eventually asks if you want to earn some extra money or do them a solid. There's a decent chance you don't know who they're working for and you might not ever find out because you don't need to know. All they want is your information.

5. You don't have the resources, expertise, or connections to solve this on your own.

You are one person. Maybe you're smart, maybe you just have some connection to something someone wants. All of your internet detective-ing isn't going to suss out who wants your information, who the person you're talking to is, or what their overall goal is. Say what you want about spooks, they have a lot of money and resources to throw at problems, whether those problems are "I want this guy's information" or "I want to know who wants this guy's information". You don't.

So, there's a few basic things.

Now, with that in mind, let's look at this 'operation'.

1. We used a goon.

Goon project jokes aside, the unifying factor among all of us is "We paid $10". How much loyalty does $10 get you? Sure, a bunch of us are friends, but that means absolutely gently caress all. One of the reasons you use spooks for this sort of thing is that spooks, usually, have some sort of higher loyalty that keeps them grounded during all of this. There isn't a loving person on these forums I'd trust to infiltrate Nazis, not because I think you're all secretly Nazis, but because there's a special combination of "I can blend into this community" and "I know they're not a Nazi or going to become one" and $10 isn't enough to make me trust any of you with that. Sorry.

If the admins wanted something like this, they should have hired some outside help. If PPJ volunteered for this, all bets are off because see the above bullet points. Instead of the spy wanting something from you, now the spy is offering you information. Same rules apply.

2. PPJ used his own account, as a moderator, to infiltrate this group.

This is bad from the get-go. If he's not compromised (i.e, an actual Nazi) from the get-go, they're probably going to want him to prove his loyalty. If you don't have moderator powers, this could be anything from "get information" to "help harass this person". If you do have moderator buttons, the sky's the loving limit. Probe posters, ban posters, leak the mod forum, all of it. If he wasn't compromised but wants to keep in the good graces of the people he's dealing with, he'd probably have to do some shady questionable poo poo with his buttons. At that point, he's susceptible to blackmail. See above.

3. PPJ used his position in the group to warn people of Nazi action.

If PPJ is compromised, he can feed any amount of 'bad' information to the mods and have them react. At that point, they don't have to actually do anything, just task PPJ to rile up the goons every once in a while for the lulz. If PPJ isn't compromised, they can start leaking specific plans, often to specific people, to see what gets passed on and how the targets react. If they find out that KM goes dark every time there's a threat and PPJ is in the chat, there's your smoking gun. At that point, even if he's not compromised, he's under suspicion and they can start feeding him bad information. Once again, you're dealing with professionals.

4. There is no way of knowing PPJ's loyalties.

See the previous #1, but this boils down to "You know PPJ is a member of X and Y. You cannot say for certain that he is not a member of Z, which is even worse than X and Y put together." If PPJ was compromised at any point, guess what? Your entire plan is now turned on its head and he's spying on you.

5. The admins decided to keep this hush-hush.

This one is actually understandable, because you want to protect your sources and methods, i.e, we have a mole or several in Nazi Discords. The problem with this is that if your mole is particularly hated and has a visible position under his own name on the forums, people are going to do some digging because they want to bring down the bad guy. Now your entire plan is revealed to everybody because he had to operate under his own name.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, with all of that, I'm going to say that this was loving irresponsible, stupid, and dangerous.

Spies use fake names and documents all the time, you have access to the literal databases where you could make a fake account and start seeding it with posts, why would you use a moderator that people vocally dislike? gently caress, make a new mod in Private Game Servers if them having access to the mod forum for leaks is important for clarity. If they need to prove that they're a mod, make some fake accounts to post in your chosen forum so you can probate them with the secret Nazi phrase.

If you're volunteering to spy for something, people should be really really suspicious of where your loyalties lie because you're already declaring "I want to betray someone's trust for my own gain". As I said before, it would be trivial to hand over fake information and create additional layers of security for Naziposting where Nazis could operate without being seen by the goon moles. It's dangerous to have someone in a position of authority doing this because we can't prove where anyone's loyalties lie and it just takes one request to use moderation powers for Nazi things to compromise someone for a long time.

I'll take a few more questions if anyone has them.

epic bird guy
Dec 8, 2014



Koos Goop posted:

... how can they be so informed about the neo-Nazi community, yet think anyone in FYAD was part of it.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 25 days!


Koos Goop posted:

... how can they be so informed about the neo-Nazi community, yet think anyone in FYAD was part of it.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3CKgkyc7Qo

Baller Ina
Oct 21, 2010


Has lowtax caught wind of this yet

Can't wait to see how that factors in

pancake rabbit
Feb 21, 2011







Toilet Rascal

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Indeed. Blowing up a legit informant over cspam drama makes it actively harder to fight nazis on this site. I'm sure that sounds ridiculous but as more and more community interactions happen on discord, we rely on information from folks in those discords to help prevent planned abuse such as this. A month ago, everyone was *begging* us to do something about doxxing - this is what doing something about doxxing looks like. We don't control offsite poo poo and need folks in those spaces if we're to be anything but blind. The mod forum frequently discusses and permabans people from hateful offsite places because we want to prevent them from negatively influencing the forums. On multiple occasions I've personally done it based directly on information nazi alt accounts from PPJ.

this is from lastgirl

Ayn Randi
Mar 12, 2009




Grimey Drawer

"execute order 1488"

mystic pimp
Jul 25, 2014

Formerly-rampant human-coded AI with a sense of humor seeks bipedal oxygen-breathing cyborg for serious relationship in the galactic core. I've got cool guns if you like to break stuff. No yuppies.


Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


HiHo ChiRho posted:

If you Discord, take it
I should have said it before
Tried to hide it, fake it
I can't pretend anymore

I only want to Fash alot
Never by the hands of a broken mod
I don't want you to see me lie tonight
Scrubbing logs of becoming who I really am

This is the post when I say I don't know, yuh
I probated myself two weeks for cuz
This is the part when I'm Nazi
'Cause I can't resist it no more

Funky Britches
Aug 22, 2009



lmfao yes live free and koos group were the problem here
another win for the something awful moderation team

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


redneck nazgul posted:

Remember when I said that the first thing anyone says if you get approached by a spy is "CALL THE loving FEDS, DON'T DO ANYTHING"?

There's a few reasons for that.

1. You are likely not trained in counterintelligence. They are.

The person trying to get information out of you is trained to get information out of people while keeping theirs. You are likely not trained in how to see that coming, let alone get information out of them. This means that they are a few chess moves ahead of you while you're sitting there trying to figure out whether you want to be the red or black checkers. You're already at a disadvantage.

2. The fact that you're talking to them is enough for them to work with.

If you decide that you're smart enough to go ahead and play along or feed them bad information, they already have some record of you chatting with the spy. Now they can use that as leverage to get you to actually provide information, since you're basically compromised at this point and can lose your job or position. At that point, they don't even have to try and bribe you or appeal to your ego/ideology/hatred for your country.

3. You have no leverage to make them go away, except by calling the cops before it even starts.

Seriously. If you're willing to play ball, they will continue playing ball and tugging until you're no longer useful. If you start out giving them things and then go "oh god, maybe I don't want to be a spy any more", congratulations, you're still guilty of espionage for everything you've already done. They can use that to keep you in the game.

4. A lot of espionage starts out as you having a friend to exploit the fact that you're friends.

Seriously. It's not some super attractive person with a hint of an accent sliding up to you in a bar and asking what you do for a living. It's a friend of a friend who eventually asks if you want to earn some extra money or do them a solid. There's a decent chance you don't know who they're working for and you might not ever find out because you don't need to know. All they want is your information.

5. You don't have the resources, expertise, or connections to solve this on your own.

You are one person. Maybe you're smart, maybe you just have some connection to something someone wants. All of your internet detective-ing isn't going to suss out who wants your information, who the person you're talking to is, or what their overall goal is. Say what you want about spooks, they have a lot of money and resources to throw at problems, whether those problems are "I want this guy's information" or "I want to know who wants this guy's information". You don't.

So, there's a few basic things.

Now, with that in mind, let's look at this 'operation'.

1. We used a goon.

Goon project jokes aside, the unifying factor among all of us is "We paid $10". How much loyalty does $10 get you? Sure, a bunch of us are friends, but that means absolutely gently caress all. One of the reasons you use spooks for this sort of thing is that spooks, usually, have some sort of higher loyalty that keeps them grounded during all of this. There isn't a loving person on these forums I'd trust to infiltrate Nazis, not because I think you're all secretly Nazis, but because there's a special combination of "I can blend into this community" and "I know they're not a Nazi or going to become one" and $10 isn't enough to make me trust any of you with that. Sorry.

If the admins wanted something like this, they should have hired some outside help. If PPJ volunteered for this, all bets are off because see the above bullet points. Instead of the spy wanting something from you, now the spy is offering you information. Same rules apply.

2. PPJ used his own account, as a moderator, to infiltrate this group.

This is bad from the get-go. If he's not compromised (i.e, an actual Nazi) from the get-go, they're probably going to want him to prove his loyalty. If you don't have moderator powers, this could be anything from "get information" to "help harass this person". If you do have moderator buttons, the sky's the loving limit. Probe posters, ban posters, leak the mod forum, all of it. If he wasn't compromised but wants to keep in the good graces of the people he's dealing with, he'd probably have to do some shady questionable poo poo with his buttons. At that point, he's susceptible to blackmail. See above.

3. PPJ used his position in the group to warn people of Nazi action.

If PPJ is compromised, he can feed any amount of 'bad' information to the mods and have them react. At that point, they don't have to actually do anything, just task PPJ to rile up the goons every once in a while for the lulz. If PPJ isn't compromised, they can start leaking specific plans, often to specific people, to see what gets passed on and how the targets react. If they find out that KM goes dark every time there's a threat and PPJ is in the chat, there's your smoking gun. At that point, even if he's not compromised, he's under suspicion and they can start feeding him bad information. Once again, you're dealing with professionals.

4. There is no way of knowing PPJ's loyalties.

See the previous #1, but this boils down to "You know PPJ is a member of X and Y. You cannot say for certain that he is not a member of Z, which is even worse than X and Y put together." If PPJ was compromised at any point, guess what? Your entire plan is now turned on its head and he's spying on you.

5. The admins decided to keep this hush-hush.

This one is actually understandable, because you want to protect your sources and methods, i.e, we have a mole or several in Nazi Discords. The problem with this is that if your mole is particularly hated and has a visible position under his own name on the forums, people are going to do some digging because they want to bring down the bad guy. Now your entire plan is revealed to everybody because he had to operate under his own name.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, with all of that, I'm going to say that this was loving irresponsible, stupid, and dangerous.

Spies use fake names and documents all the time, you have access to the literal databases where you could make a fake account and start seeding it with posts, why would you use a moderator that people vocally dislike? gently caress, make a new mod in Private Game Servers if them having access to the mod forum for leaks is important for clarity. If they need to prove that they're a mod, make some fake accounts to post in your chosen forum so you can probate them with the secret Nazi phrase.

If you're volunteering to spy for something, people should be really really suspicious of where your loyalties lie because you're already declaring "I want to betray someone's trust for my own gain". As I said before, it would be trivial to hand over fake information and create additional layers of security for Naziposting where Nazis could operate without being seen by the goon moles. It's dangerous to have someone in a position of authority doing this because we can't prove where anyone's loyalties lie and it just takes one request to use moderation powers for Nazi things to compromise someone for a long time.

I'll take a few more questions if anyone has them.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


why are we calling this an operation its one idiot sitting in a nazi discord and tugging his collar whenever a slightly too racist meme gets posted

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



ArfJason posted:

Quite strange.

disgusting

Themage
Jul 21, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo


Daikatana Ritsu posted:

I fully understand I have made no friends here or the forums at large as of late & I don't expect to, but I will always and forever back the people who shout from their rooftops, their computer chairs, their couches, their WebTVs: Mods knew. gently caress the mods.

gently caress the mods.

go back to misgendering people on twitter you nazi

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Doublestep posted:

do you know how PPJ was able to infiltrate a nazi discord so successfully? by using NORD VPN to mask his trail into the discord. there was no possible way he could have his identity traced

top secret undercover mission to get nazis to buy stuff off goldbelly with richard's friend code

eric ciaramella
Aug 10, 2016

Hate to see it folks





reopen fyad. close d&d.

Schnorkles
Apr 29, 2015





pouring out a 40 to posting comrade Al! tonight and hoping he can see this and have a lmao

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





ScootsMcSkirt posted:

this is nuts

2020 is insanely stupid

358 more days to go!

Zas
Oct 7, 2006



Baller Ina posted:

Has lowtax caught wind of this yet

Can't wait to see how that factors in

you think there's any way in a million years he'll understand what's going on? dude is borderline illiterate at this point

Grondoth
Feb 18, 2011


So did people ever say to themselves "we can't just enforce rules, things are complicated because one of the mods is in deep cover within right-wing extremist offsites and suddenly banning people would compromise our operation" or did all of this go unsaid

Cause like, there was clearly a lot of hard work going on and people were busy updating forum software and handling reports and all that. I get it. The strange thing about humans is we can sort of just accept insane things and go on with them in the back of their head. but did anyone ever lay out what was happening? Cause I feel like if they did they'd go "wait what the gently caress are we doing"

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya ÷nde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef L÷w išin zafer!




pancake rabbit posted:

this is from lastgirl


free her already

mystic pimp
Jul 25, 2014

Formerly-rampant human-coded AI with a sense of humor seeks bipedal oxygen-breathing cyborg for serious relationship in the galactic core. I've got cool guns if you like to break stuff. No yuppies.


its cool that the mod team has a load bearing nazi

Valleyant
Jul 23, 2007

Eat the rich



Endorph posted:

why are we calling this an operation its one idiot sitting in a nazi discord and tugging his collar whenever a slightly too racist meme gets posted

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Indeed. Blowing up a legit informant over cspam drama makes it actively harder to fight nazis on this site. I'm sure that sounds ridiculous but as more and more community interactions happen on discord, we rely on information from folks in those discords to help prevent planned abuse such as this. A month ago, everyone was *begging* us to do something about doxxing - this is what doing something about doxxing looks like. We don't control offsite poo poo and need folks in those spaces if we're to be anything but blind. The mod forum frequently discusses and permabans people from hateful offsite places because we want to prevent them from negatively influencing the forums. On multiple occasions I've personally done it based directly on information nazi alt accounts from PPJ.

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

The security of this forum depends on our ability to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at quarter hours' notice.


eric ciaramella posted:

reopen fyad. close d&d.

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013

by Cyrano4747


Toilet Rascal

Endorph posted:

why are we calling this an operation its one idiot sitting in a nazi discord and tugging his collar whenever a slightly too racist meme gets posted

they're treating it like one

no need to make big spycraft effort posts if the admins had just said "what the gently caress why is a mod hanging out in a nazi discord"

Funky Britches
Aug 22, 2009



ArfJason posted:

lmao hitler smokes weed and has big balls

(USER HAS BEEN PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya ÷nde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef L÷w išin zafer!




Schnorkles posted:

pouring out a 40 to posting comrade Al! tonight and hoping he can see this and have a lmao

Zas
Oct 7, 2006



anyway goldmine before the tedious interforum rivalry starts again

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eric ciaramella
Aug 10, 2016

Hate to see it folks





Schnorkles posted:

pouring out a 40 to posting comrade Al! tonight and hoping he can see this and have a lmao

someone needs to tell mormonpartyboat

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