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FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting


AdmiralViscen posted:

One would think that theyíd have some interest in traffic retention and would have some motivation to at least throw a bone to their single largest community

Let me tell you a tale of times gone by...

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Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011



Serf posted:

doesn't sa literally lose money as it is?

I would like to see our hosting bill because tbh i dont buy it

Bandwidth in 2020 isnt that expensive

Its not a revenue stream and wouldn't cover living expenses but if registrations wasn't covering the hosting I'd be loving shocked

Lowtax is completely dependent on patreon donations though and plenty of those came from cspam.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





Beet Wagon posted:

Just off the top of my head that strikes me as even less likely to happen, because it would immediately result in mods having to jump back and forth between the mod forum and the inevitable qcs thread that pops up for every post suggesting or discussing a decision that people don't like.

Again, I'm anybody here is wrong to want more transparency, just that... if you're looking to be able to browse the mod forum you should probably temper your expectations. It's not something I can realistically see them doing.

then maybe we should have community representation at these talks

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




maybe lowtax also gets a crate of juice every gb we eat up

punchymcpunch
Oct 14, 2012





Canned Ferret

Serf posted:

doesn't sa literally lose money as it is?

maybe this is all a cost-saving measure

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011




Fun Shoe

Squizzle posted:

lurkers are part of the community. and should post

I wasnít even aware of c-spam until recently. The way everyone talks about it elsewhere on the forums it sounded like they were like FYAD which I had no interest in. Then one day I clicked it and was like oh, this works for me.

I probably would have found it a lot earlier if it was a top level forum. Oops.

JuulPodSaveAmerica
Aug 29, 2012


just goldmine the thread, pretty sure we've talked this all over.

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP

Trump fat is a bad joke.

Trump fat and it's entirely his fault because he lives an incredibly hedonistic lifestyle and his followers often depict him like he's a Greek god is a very funny joke.

Serf
May 5, 2011










its like, democracy rules and we should get to do stuff like vote on our mods, but at no point is that a requirement baked into this system. its not like lowtax is accountable to the users, and neither are the mods. the fact that they're even cowering away in their goblin hole to do anything is amazing lol

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011



Beet Wagon posted:

Just off the top of my head that strikes me as even less likely to happen, because it would immediately result in mods having to jump back and forth between the mod forum and the inevitable qcs thread that pops up for every post suggesting or discussing a decision that people don't like.

Again, I'm anybody here is wrong to want more transparency, just that... if you're looking to be able to browse the mod forum you should probably temper your expectations. It's not something I can realistically see them doing.

Maybe after the mods shielded their Nazi friend and approved a bunch of his probes and bans they shouldnt have a loving mod forum anymore

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





AdmiralViscen posted:

I wasnít even aware of c-spam until recently. The way everyone talks about it elsewhere on the forums it sounded like they were like FYAD which I had no interest in. Then one day I clicked it and was like oh, this works for me.

I probably would have found it a lot earlier if it was a top level forum. Oops.

cspam is very kind to all please post especially in this trying time

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&





I can't believe Mean Girls is a documentary

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008


ďIíll have to get you to excuse me, my friend, I ainít no hat-rack.Ē

Fun Shoe

dex_sda posted:

Have any idea on a response timeframe?

on qcs opening?? im gonna leave that up to the admins because:

1: opening a new subforum is a technical thing and i have no more idea of what the technical stuff entails than you do. if you are a computer professional person or have ever worked code poo poo for an internet web-site forum, i most likely have less understanding than you do

2: i have tried to keep up w the discussion around qcs, but its clearly been ongoing for some time. jumping into this late in the game means i have a buncha catching up to do

i dont want to promise firm timelines when i have neither certainty of progress nor ability to actually make those deadlines happen. im in the audience for this process, albeit w the privilege of seeing backstage

from what i know, my sense is that the wait should be measured in days. mods and admins are super eager to have a functional qcs up and running. it helps moderation and community communication, and thats something mods like too

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


even though I honestly suspect PPJ's flameout was more his own doing than the result of the revolutionary posting brigade, i think a big part of the problem is that it sure looks like C-SPAM just collected a mod scalp and is becoming ungovernable

combine this with a bunch of incredibly stupid, embarrassing poo poo happening to put everyone on the defensive (both in the immediate past but also going back to mid-December), the loss of a bunch of veteran management, and it not being incredibly clear who's even got final say over the forums any more if not Lowtax...

... and you get a situation where absolutely nobody really wants to assume responsibility, a complete mea culpa is impossible because it would embolden the malcontents, a stern talking to would be impossible because you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and everything's moving so fast and communication is so patchy and incomplete that anyone who might have a good solution probably hasn't even caught up with all the insane poo poo that happened in the past 48 hours alone

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Suplex Liberace posted:

their work space is the fourms we all post in

I've never modded here, but the idea of mods discussing posters and if they should eat longer probes or a ban or perma, out in the open where said poster, their friends, and the people who hate them, is a drama bomb of loving epic proportions.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Lipstick Apathy

Suplex Liberace posted:

then maybe we should have community representation at these talks

Serf posted:

its like, democracy rules and we should get to do stuff like vote on our mods, but at no point is that a requirement baked into this system. its not like lowtax is accountable to the users, and neither are the mods. the fact that they're even cowering away in their goblin hole to do anything is amazing lol

Yeah I mean Serf pretty much has it. Nobody is wrong for wanting these forums to run more like a democracy or whatever (and in some cases user-suggested mods has worked out) but I just think... probably folks who want some kind of Peoples' Posting Council are setting themselves up for disappointment.

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




Squizzle posted:

on qcs opening?? im gonna leave that up to the admins because:

1: opening a new subforum is a technical thing and i have no more idea of what the technical stuff entails than you do. if you are a computer professional person or have ever worked code poo poo for an internet web-site forum, i most likely have less understanding than you do

2: i have tried to keep up w the discussion around qcs, but its clearly been ongoing for some time. jumping into this late in the game means i have a buncha catching up to do

i dont want to promise firm timelines when i have neither certainty of progress nor ability to actually make those deadlines happen. im in the audience for this process, albeit w the privilege of seeing backstage

from what i know, my sense is that the wait should be measured in days. mods and admins are super eager to have a functional qcs up and running. it helps moderation and community communication, and thats something mods like too

i mean the ppj debacle

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


you don't even need democracy, really

we just need to rebuild an environment where the community and management don't think of each other as enemies, because that's loving insane and is only going to lead to a dead(er) forum

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




unless they are waiting for qcs to be reopened to start talking about it?

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Project Force

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

even though I honestly suspect PPJ's flameout was more his own doing than the result of the revolutionary posting brigade, i think a big part of the problem is that it sure looks like C-SPAM just collected a mod scalp and is becoming ungovernable

combine this with a bunch of incredibly stupid, embarrassing poo poo happening to put everyone on the defensive (both in the immediate past but also going back to mid-December), the loss of a bunch of veteran management, and it not being incredibly clear who's even got final say over the forums any more if not Lowtax...

... and you get a situation where absolutely nobody really wants to assume responsibility, a complete mea culpa is impossible because it would embolden the malcontents, a stern talking to would be impossible because you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and everything's moving so fast and communication is so patchy and incomplete that anyone who might have a good solution probably hasn't even caught up with all the insane poo poo that happened in the past 48 hours alone

Iím at work again because capitalism but this is an Insightful Post

re: QCS I donít have more news than you but I will say that admins are seriously rethinking their approach to things and Iím reasonably confident than when QCS does open (Iím guessing this will be tomorrow as was planned before this PPJ stuff happened but Iím not sure on that) that there will be Dialogue (tm).

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Lipstick Apathy

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

you don't even need democracy, really

we just need to rebuild an environment where the community and management don't think of each other as enemies, because that's loving insane and is only going to lead to a dead(er) forum

Agreed.

dex_sda posted:

unless they are waiting for qcs to be reopened to start talking about it?

This is almost certainly the case. It's a lot easier to handle big discussions about stuff like this when it's all collected in one place.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





Beet Wagon posted:

Yeah I mean Serf pretty much has it. Nobody is wrong for wanting these forums to run more like a democracy or whatever (and in some cases user-suggested mods has worked out) but I just think... probably folks who want some kind of Peoples' Posting Council are setting themselves up for disappointment.

yah obv ive been a leftist my entire adult life its been all disappointment. but i wont stop advocating for it wherever i can

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

I'M ESCAPING TO THE ONE PLACE THAT HASN'T BEEN CORRUPTED BY CAPITALISM...

SPACE!


Suplex Liberace posted:

helsing what the gently caress is going on?

The PPJ stuff came as a huge surprise to almost everyone so people are still getting their heads around that. The other big discussion at the moment is when to open QCS (soon) and how it should be run when it is open. Also we're kinda waiting to see who still actually wants to be a mod when the dust settles because a lot of people right now are concerned about getting doxxed or otherwise targeted.

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

even though I honestly suspect PPJ's flameout was more his own doing than the result of the revolutionary posting brigade, i think a big part of the problem is that it sure looks like C-SPAM just collected a mod scalp and is becoming ungovernable

Who can forget the real villain, the person who exposed aatrek as a diddler

I get what you're actually saying but who the gently caress cares about scalping nazis, any mod who is bothered by a Nazi getting outed more than working alongside one is probably also a secret Nazi

JuulPodSaveAmerica
Aug 29, 2012


Beet Wagon posted:

Yeah I mean Serf pretty much has it. Nobody is wrong for wanting these forums to run more like a democracy or whatever (and in some cases user-suggested mods has worked out) but I just think... probably folks who want some kind of Peoples' Posting Council are setting themselves up for disappointment.

better moderation isn't possible.

SpiderHyphenMan
Mar 31, 2010





Pillbug

Buck Wildman posted:

since you clearly feel strongly about all this how do you reconcile your calls for tolerance with catching a week probe recently for saying you'd genocide every trump voter if you had the power to do so
All I'm arguing is that using humor that otherizes groups of people does not make someone a Nazi.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





Helsing posted:

Also we're kinda waiting to see who still actually wants to be a mod when the dust settles because a lot of people right now are concerned about getting doxxed or otherwise targeted.

this is something the community needs to address!!! the safety of this modship is scary. I dont want my friends getting doxxed because they get put in the smallest position of authority here its upsetting

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011



Helsing posted:

The PPJ stuff came as a huge surprise to almost everyone so people are still getting their heads around that. The other big discussion at the moment is when to open QCS (soon) and how it should be run when it is open. Also we're kinda waiting to see who still actually wants to be a mod when the dust settles because a lot of people right now are concerned about getting doxxed or otherwise targeted.

If your only applicants are afraid the community will uncover their baggage where the hell are you asking

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008


ďIíll have to get you to excuse me, my friend, I ainít no hat-rack.Ē

Fun Shoe

dex_sda posted:

i mean the ppj debacle

there are specific people i need to hear from so the clock doesnt start for me until i see them, using an internet, for talking. to me

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Mirthless posted:

Who can forget the real villain, the person who exposed aatrek as a diddler

I get what you're actually saying but who the gently caress cares about scalping nazis, any mod who is bothered by a Nazi getting outed more than working alongside one is probably also a secret Nazi

to be clear, i'm one of the malcontents, i just really want there to be a way to de-escalate this that doesn't involve like 5 different posting communities that are important and valuable to me disappearing in a puff of drama

and i'm putting that before judgment of who's right or wrong even if i obviously have opinions about that too

Koalas March
May 21, 2007



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

... and you get a situation where absolutely nobody really wants to assume responsibility, a complete mea culpa is impossible because it would embolden the malcontents, a stern talking to would be impossible because you wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and everything's moving so fast and communication is so patchy and incomplete that anyone who might have a good solution probably hasn't even caught up with all the insane poo poo that happened in the past 48 hours alone

I am absolutely willing to assume responsibility for the dumb poo poo I have said and done in the last few days. A lot of people have been very charitable and understanding towards me and I appreciate that. I did not have the full picture. The initial screenshots I saw were just TFR/gunchat iirc and lists of users in a discord that I was aware had been doxxing/harassing me in the past. I assumed he was just lurking and giving me a heads up whenever something bad cropped up. I still haven't had the heart to go through the .zip I was given. I have made no secret that my mental health hasn't been great over the last year or so and there's certain things I do to help keep it in check and that involves trying to remove myself from off-site assholes as much as possible. Unfortunately that backfired in a spectacular way.

I think transparency is the only way we're going to make it through this and I'm happy to answer any questions about my conduct. Idk if this is the thread to do it in but my PM's are always open

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011



Suplex Liberace posted:

this is something the community needs to address!!! the safety of this modship is scary. I dont want my friends getting doxxed because they get put in the smallest position of authority here its upsetting

If your friends arent Nazis or Pedophiles what are they worried about

The only times mods have been substantively doxxed we have discovered they were among the worst han beings on planet earth

Serf
May 5, 2011










c-spam is pretty much going to stay ungovernable until they take the incredibly easy and super loving simple step of giving us mods who are from c-spam and enjoy interacting with us. this is not loving difficult, and should've been done after it became apparent that the forum was not going away after 2016

razorrozar
Feb 21, 2012

by Cyrano4747


Koalas March posted:

I am absolutely willing to assume responsibility for the dumb poo poo I have said and done in the last few days. A lot of people have been very charitable and understanding towards me and I appreciate that. I did not have the full picture. The initial screenshots I saw were just TFR/gunchat iirc and lists of users in a discord that I was aware had been doxxing/harassing me in the past. I assumed he was just lurking and giving me a heads up whenever something bad cropped up. I still haven't had the heart to go through the .zip I was given. I have made no secret that my mental health hasn't been great over the last year or so and there's certain things I do to help keep it in check and that involves trying to remove myself from off-site assholes as much as possible. Unfortunately that backfired in a spectacular way.

I think transparency is the only way we're going to make it through this and I'm happy to answer any questions about my conduct. Idk if this is the thread to do it in but my PM's are always open

im glad to see you and i hope you're doing ok

Offkorn
Jan 16, 2008

Borderline Anti-Social Schizoid


Mirthless posted:

If your only applicants are afraid the community will uncover their baggage where the hell are you asking

Is less their baggage and more that there's quite a number of insane stalkers on the forum who think paying means they're entitled to harass anyone who prevents them from posting (i.e. probations/bans).

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Lipstick Apathy

Suplex Liberace posted:

this is something the community needs to address!!! the safety of this modship is scary. I dont want my friends getting doxxed because they get put in the smallest position of authority here its upsetting

In a lot of cases there's really not much you can do about it because it happens off-site. One of the first things I got told when I got buttons was to scrub everything on social media, etc. Most of the time it's a pretty minor, background-radiation type issue. But this whole last month has been a complete shitshow and folks just have their limits of what they want to deal with.

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008


ďIíll have to get you to excuse me, my friend, I ainít no hat-rack.Ē

Fun Shoe

Mirthless posted:

If your friends arent Nazis or Pedophiles what are they worried about

The only times mods have beem substabitvely doxxed we have discovered they were among the worst han beings on planet earth

wow whats w the sinophobia

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





Mirthless posted:

If your friends arent Nazis or Pedophiles what are they worried about

The only times mods have beem substabitvely doxxed we have discovered they were among the worst han beings on planet earth

i do not think koala marsh was doxxed for being a nazi. And this is more about future modships i dont think helsing is a nazi and i dont want him doxxxed or demodded for example

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012




Squizzle posted:

there are specific people i need to hear from so the clock doesnt start for me until i see them, using an internet, for talking. to me

Was just wondering

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Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

I'M ESCAPING TO THE ONE PLACE THAT HASN'T BEEN CORRUPTED BY CAPITALISM...

SPACE!


Mirthless posted:

If your friends arent Nazis or Pedophiles what are they worried about

The only times mods have been substantively doxxed we have discovered they were among the worst han beings on planet earth

Yes, only innocent people ever get stalked or harassed on the internet, a very good and reasonable take in 2020.

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