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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Flutieflakes017 posted:

This thread is super interesting. I think one of the hardest things for a city boy living on the other side of the country is wrapping my head around the visuals.

How would you feel about sharing some pictures of your school, the towns, or anything that moves you? I promise not to dox.

Sure, I can take some cellphone pics, probably Tuesday afternoon since I have class all day Monday.

The summer is a much better time for photography because everything is vibrant and green and there are tons of cultural activities, powwows and Sun Dance and so on. This time of year is snow and mud but I'll see what I can do.

I probably wouldn't take many pictures around town, I kinda feel like that's bordering on poverty tourism. There are a lot of boarded up homes, rusting car hulks in yards, general disrepair. About the only thing you'd get from pics around town is "wow folks are really poor and struggling" which is true, but like I've said I think focusing on the poverty is not helpful and neglects so many other important aspects of life around here.

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The Clitoris
Jan 29, 2020

Finding it makes all of your dreams come true


Some reservation photos but not the OPs. From the state to the North. No Urban photos though.







Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

My rampant shitposting has broke my brain beyond repair. I have no redeemable qualities and wish to be put out of my shitposting misery for good. TIA!

A lot of reservations are very rural, so photos of them are just going to look identical to whatever area of the country that the reservation is in. Fritz is in South Dakota so it's gonna be all plains and badlands, but if it was pictures of a reservation in the southwest it'd be desert or mountains or whatever.

I have driven through several of the reservations here in Minnesota and most of the time you don't even notice it unless there's a sign explicitly telling you when you're entering. It's not like you're landing on an alien planet.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


Lutha Mahtin posted:

A lot of reservations are very rural, so photos of them are just going to look identical to whatever area of the country that the reservation is in. Fritz is in South Dakota so it's gonna be all plains and badlands, but if it was pictures of a reservation in the southwest it'd be desert or mountains or whatever.

I have driven through several of the reservations here in Minnesota and most of the time you don't even notice it unless there's a sign explicitly telling you when you're entering. It's not like you're landing on an alien planet.

Dunno how common it is but the timezone shift can be odd if you dont notice.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Lutha Mahtin posted:

A lot of reservations are very rural, so photos of them are just going to look identical to whatever area of the country that the reservation is in. Fritz is in South Dakota so it's gonna be all plains and badlands, but if it was pictures of a reservation in the southwest it'd be desert or mountains or whatever.

I have driven through several of the reservations here in Minnesota and most of the time you don't even notice it unless there's a sign explicitly telling you when you're entering. It's not like you're landing on an alien planet.
Yeah where I live is rolling hills prairie. There are badlands and cedar forest on the other side of the rez but I'm not keen on driving 45min each way to take pictures of them. Badlands are starkly beautiful, they look like you're on Mars. They also have zero agricultural or mineral value, the term badlands is a literal translation of what the native peoples called them.

Well, I guess the local road maintenance gets truckloads of badlands earth to put on dirt roads but "dirt for roads" is not much of an economic resource.

As an aside, the Black Hills and Badlands of South Dakota are gorgeous scenery and pretty inexpensive. There's a lot of cool stuff for tourists to do, hiking camping biking, Wild West history, check out a powwow. Come throw us some of your tourism bucks!

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




How does the reservation interact with nearby off-reservation towns, or are there nearby towns? For example Hardin, MT is right next to the Crow Reservation (which, as far as I know, is just named that), but I don't know much about how the two interact except that kids who went to Catholic school on the Crow Reservation said it was better to go to high school in Billings at the Catholic high school there (the diocese had scholarships) than in Hardin.

Similarly, is there a lot of interaction with other nearby reservations? At least when I was in high school (nineteen years ago, yikes) the Crow kids and Northern Cheyenne kids who were my classmates didn't hang out together, but I don't remember them actively avoiding each other, just not actively seeking each other out.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

Fritz the Horse posted:

Yeah where I live is rolling hills prairie. There are badlands and cedar forest on the other side of the rez but I'm not keen on driving 45min each way to take pictures of them. Badlands are starkly beautiful, they look like you're on Mars. They also have zero agricultural or mineral value, the term badlands is a literal translation of what the native peoples called them.

Well, I guess the local road maintenance gets truckloads of badlands earth to put on dirt roads but "dirt for roads" is not much of an economic resource.

As an aside, the Black Hills and Badlands of South Dakota are gorgeous scenery and pretty inexpensive. There's a lot of cool stuff for tourists to do, hiking camping biking, Wild West history, check out a powwow. Come throw us some of your tourism bucks!

Badlands national park is one of my favorite places in the country for scenery. The Black Hills are absolutely beautiful as well.

I need to get back up there, it's been a decade or so.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
THE VOLKSWAGEN DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

Are the badlands in the Dakotas like the badlands in Alberta or significantly different? Apparently ours have a lot of cool dinosaur fossils.

The Clitoris
Jan 29, 2020

Finding it makes all of your dreams come true


Dakota Badlands are also rife with fossils. The principle members being the Fox Hills and Hells Creek formations extending though the Dakota's and into Montana. Lotta dinosaurs come out of it

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

My rampant shitposting has broke my brain beyond repair. I have no redeemable qualities and wish to be put out of my shitposting misery for good. TIA!

lmbo that "badlands" is a direct translation of indian words that mean "garbage ground" or whatever. it's like a MLYP joke but for bad soil

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
THE VOLKSWAGEN DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

The Clitoris posted:

Dakota Badlands are also rife with fossils. The principle members being the Fox Hills and Hells Creek formations extending though the Dakota's and into Montana. Lotta dinosaurs come out of it

That's cool, ours are fantastic for dinosaurs and hiking and flying over and looking cool and whatever, but yeah I wouldn't want to try to eke out an existence on them.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


zonohedron posted:

How does the reservation interact with nearby off-reservation towns, or are there nearby towns? For example Hardin, MT is right next to the Crow Reservation (which, as far as I know, is just named that), but I don't know much about how the two interact except that kids who went to Catholic school on the Crow Reservation said it was better to go to high school in Billings at the Catholic high school there (the diocese had scholarships) than in Hardin.

Similarly, is there a lot of interaction with other nearby reservations? At least when I was in high school (nineteen years ago, yikes) the Crow kids and Northern Cheyenne kids who were my classmates didn't hang out together, but I don't remember them actively avoiding each other, just not actively seeking each other out.

Yes, there are three small towns (pop. ~3,000) each about 15-20min from the reservation borders. They provide some important services you can't get on the rez, and racism. Some examples of services: tires, serious car repair, legal services, dentists (only IHS dentists on the rez), booze (most/all of the reservations are dry). So lots of tribal members make trips to the nearby towns for various things.

The three towns are about 90% white, 10% Native American. They're near the rez and have a small but significant NA population which is a recipe for vile racism, apparently. You'll hear a lot of "drunk Indian" stereotypes and "jokes," and "prairie n_____r" is a very common and disgusting epithet. Rapid City, the largest city in the western half of South Dakota, gets called "Racism City" by rez folks, apparently the police there are super discriminatory and brutal to NA and the population in general is particularly bigoted.

On the reservation, the demographics are reversed, it's about 90% NA and 10% white people. The white folks are mostly old ranching families (like my own) or transplants that teach in town. There really isn't much racism among white people on the rez, some tension sometimes because politics are complicated here. There's been a lot of intermarriage, no one really cares about that in modern times. The major exception is one ranching family who are racist assholes everyone hates, they're also the largest landowners and wealthiest family on the rez. That's a rant for another post, though.

My family is pretty well-known at least in the eastern part of the rez and in town, historically the ranch wives mostly worked as teachers. The most common response when I introduce myself is "oh are you related to X, I had them as a teacher in high school" or similar. Your surname is pretty important around here, both for Lakota and white folks. Some Lakota family names carry a lot of weight and respect. You can usually recognize outsiders by their unfamiliar surnames. Lakota will have a Lakota surname (usually adjective + noun like White Hawk or a verb phrase like Kills In Water), a French surname, or one of the white ranching family names from intermarriage. The French surnames (like Bordeaux, Roubideaux, Lamoreaux, Antoine, etc) are from French fur traders who made a habit of marrying Native women so their kids would be raised bilingually and act as translators. There wasn't really any settlement of French immigrants around here, so someone with a French surname almost always is Lakota. Anyway that's a bit of a derail, it's a small community and everybody knows everyone else and generally gets along.

Yeah there are intertribal/band rivalries. Mostly they're just joking and good-natured, like sports team rivalries. The best example I can think of are the Oglalla ("Scatters Their Own," Pine Ridge Reservation) and the Sicangu ("Burnt Thigh," Rosebud Reservation). The reservations are next door, they tease and joke with each other a lot, and it's a huge sports rivalry especially for basketball. The stereotypes are that the Oglalla are wild and crazy rebellious types (they'd say more traditional and independent), and the Sicangu are assimilated wimps (they'd say more educated and civilized). Historically this has to do with attitudes of the chiefs when the two bands were settled on reservations. Many Oglalla leaders wanted to keep fighting the US government, and some did. The Sicangu leaders mostly "saw the writing on the wall" and more willingly accepted reservation life, they also heavily emphasized education as the path forward for their people.

There are also historical enmities between tribes, again mostly it's just joking today. We had an Ojibwe woman give our commencement address at our last graduation, she opened up joking about "I hope you appreciate how nervous I am as a tiny old Ojibwe woman talking to a bunch of Lakota." The Ojibwe and Lakota were enemies. Mostly those enmities were over land and resources (horses were super valuable to steal), but in your specific example the Cheyenne historically had a particularly intense hatred for the Crow. The Cheyenne, Lakota and many other Plains tribes refer to them even in modern times as The Hated Crow (shakes fist, boos). They were considered dishonorable and traitors because the Crow worked as scouts for and fought alongside the US Army. So it wasn't just the low-intensity warring over land and horses (counting coup and stealing horses was usually preferable to actually killing enemies), the Crow were despised by many neighboring tribes because they helped the white invaders. Note that this description is biased by the fact I was taught about it by Lakota so I dunno what the Crow perspective is. Just suffice to say the Cheyenne and Crow were serious enemies 150 years ago and that probably affected how your classmates acted. Also remember that reservations are small, insular communities so another factor is they probably just wanted to hang with other kids from their specific geographic and cultural background.


Liquid Communism posted:

Badlands national park is one of my favorite places in the country for scenery. The Black Hills are absolutely beautiful as well.

I need to get back up there, it's been a decade or so.

PT6A posted:

Are the badlands in the Dakotas like the badlands in Alberta or significantly different? Apparently ours have a lot of cool dinosaur fossils.

I think they're fairly similar, honestly I've only been to the badlands in SD so I can't compare to ND or Alberta. The SD badlands have deep canyons and tall spires, it's a brutal but beautiful landscape. And like I mentioned, the Black Hills and Badlands are quite inexpensive to visit, three or four days is enough to see most of the main stuff. One day for the Badlands, one for the northern Hills (Spearfish Canyon, Wild West stuff in Deadwood/Lead) and one for the southern Hills (Needles Highway, Sylvan Lake and Black Elk / Harney Peak, Custer State Park, Mt. Rushmore I guess if you want). The Black Hills have a very unique geology and there's cool limestone caves to check out as well as giant granite dildos further in.


Pictured: giant granite dildos, Needles Highway.

Just do not try to visit during August which is when the Sturgis Bike Rally happens, the region will be swarmed with motorcycles and you won't find hotel rooms anywhere.


Lutha Mahtin posted:

lmbo that "badlands" is a direct translation of indian words that mean "garbage ground" or whatever. it's like a MLYP joke but for bad soil

I mean, anything with "Minne" is from Dakota "mni" which means water. "Black Hills" is also a direct translation from Lakota "He Sapa," they're named as such because the thick forest appears black from a distance.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 11, 2020

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



You mentioned Native people getting back into agriculture.

Is this mainly in the big commodities maize, wheat, and soya?

Is anyone getting back into native plants, commercially or in the garden?

Fritz the Horse posted:

Wozapi is a traditional fruit pudding, not very sweet, usually made with wild plums but can also be made with chokecherries or other wild fruits.

Tell me if this recipe I found on the Web sounds reasonable:

quote:

3 Ė 4 cups water

2 cups chokecherries

1 cup honey, or to taste

ľ cup flour

Combine the chokecherries with water in a saucepan. Bring to medium heat, cooking until chokecherries soften. Sweeten to taste with honey. In a small bowl blend flour and enough water to make a creamy mixture and stir this slowly into fruit mixture until thickened

The amount of honey makes me suspicious.

I have to assume thatís wheat flour, but would corn flour be more traditional, or even acorn? If itís eaten with fry bread, I may be overthinking this.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Feb 17, 2020

Pegnose Pete
Apr 27, 2005

the future


Very cool thread! I'm a suburban kid from around Toronto and despite having mixed native cousins (only by marriage, my grandma's brother's wife) I've never set foot on a res.
My question is tangentially related, but as someone with direct experience growing up on a res, what is one book you would recommend written by a native author that you think everyone should read? You mentioned Zinn for history, but maybe someone more local/lesser known?
Fiction or nonfiction (or maybe one each?), but a book that someone of your experience read and didn't roll their eyes at.

I enjoyed Thomas King and Sherman Alexie but I admit that is pretty narrow. In terms of historical books I read Skyscrapers Hide the Heavens about Indian-White relations in Canada that I remember finding relatively nuanced and critical at the time I read it.

Also bonus question: what subject(s) do you teach and what do you find academically/professionally rewarding about your job outside of giving back to the community?

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Platystemon posted:

You mentioned Native people getting back into agriculture.

Is this mainly in the big commodities maize, wheat, and soya?

Is anyone getting back into native plants, commercially or in the garden?


Tell me if this recipe I found on the Web sounds reasonable:


The amount of honey makes me suspicious.

I have to assume thatís wheat flour, but would corn flour be more traditional, or even acorn? If itís eaten with fry bread, I may be overthinking this.

Is it ever made with honeysuckle berries (Lonicera caerulea)? The plantís range does extend into the Dakotas, but that doesnít tell the whole story.
In order because quick phoneposting:

Rez land is mostly not irrigable or arable, it's not euitable for the big cash crops like corn, soybeans, wheat. It is however a great candidate for industrial hemp if the state legislature wasn't one of the most racist rear end in a top hat GOP supermajorities around. They won't even consider decriminalization. Possession and consumption are literally separate crimes so they can slap you with both at the same time. Sisseton tried legalization and oh boy did that not go well.

Yes, fairly recently a lot of community gardens have popped up. Our tribal college has had a garden and greenhouse for quite a while they sell flowers at cost and I think veggies for free. Theft and vandalism are major problems though. There is a lot of genuine hunger though so it's not something anyone is eager to crack down on. However the high schoolers who stole watermelons in order to throw them on the road from a pickup truck and watch them burst can gently caress right off, literally stealing food from people that are lucky to have one decent meal. Everyone knows who they were and magically none of them are well connected families. Nepotism.is a big thing, if you have the right or wrong surname that changes a heck of a lot in rez life.

Yes, and I just won a grant to do actual university level research on at least two of the native plants!. Some "Real" scientists hem and haw about indigenous knowledge as superstition or fake but they're usually bigoted assholes who try to reproduce the work of thousands of years of Native peoples, slap their own name on it and.think it's novel. Dakota lived *when Euros encountered them first time* in what's now Minnesota (mni is water, sota.... Not clear etymology) and were semi nomadic. Farm wild rice in the wetlands (wild rice is a different species than typical white/brown rice), corn, beans, squash. The three sisters is likely a loan phrase from another Plains group as it's lolol to translate: our options are older sister, younger sister, older maternal cousin who is considered a sister, younger maternal cousin who is considered a sister, etc. Lakota kinship names have to include a gender, maternal or paternal line specification, and suffixes for extra degrees and to indicate whether a relationship receives avoidance treatment. Avoidance is where you aren't allowed to interact beyond basic functional talk and light joking,/teasing. So for example, being a spouse who makes pretty good fat jokes about your mother-in-law is cool and good because in-laws are avoided, no influence from your in-law's side is to occur.

Three sisters is corn, which provides vertical expansion and a trellis for the vines, beans beneath which restore nitrogen to the soil, and squash which sprawls, covering weeds. Lakota would plant Three Sisters in the summer, they were the most nomadic horse-based and most numerous of the Dakota groups, they didn't do a ton of agriculture. Unlike most tribes they actually expanded significantly after European contact because it turns out horseback hunting of bison plus gathering and limited agriculture is a plentiful food supply. They'd trade bison furs and other products for wild rice, gunpowder, weapons, etc
The Lakota also developed a reputation as fierce, competent warriors so their expansion was partially driven by displacing other tribes.

Tinpsila (literal translation prairie rice, aka prairie turnip) was the most important vegetable part of the diet. It's a legume (in the bean family) so its roots fix nitrogen and enrich soil. They're quite nutritious and dried in braids (roughly golf ball sized dry) they could be stored basically indefinitely. Wasna is the Lakota word for what's broadly called pemmican, dried meat and berries. Dried corn, beans, wild rice, wasna, and tinpsila are the main vegetable components of a traditional diet. ..

Like wozapi, wasna recipes are pretty variable.and can include different combos of berries and such.
Chokecherries, buffaloberry (mastinca pute, literally rabbits nose berry ), and wild plum berry are most common. In my experience, it's not super sweet but tastes vary. Plums are pretty naturally sweet, but buffaloberry and especially chokecherry are very astringent and bitter by themselves. So CC needs a lot of sweetener. Flour often includes ground tinpsila,but frybread in general is a post-reservarion hardship food, not part of a traditional diet Yes, it's usually served with frybread and a bison meat soup/stew, that combo is a golden standard "powwow" (wacipi, dance) or event menu

There are honeysuckles around but like half the species are toxic/inedible and hard to tell apart from each other. Not commonly eaten around here

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Feb 19, 2020

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Pegnose Pete posted:

Very cool thread! I'm a suburban kid from around Toronto and despite having mixed native cousins (only by marriage, my grandma's brother's wife) I've never set foot on a res.
My question is tangentially related, but as someone with direct experience growing up on a res, what is one book you would recommend written by a native author that you think everyone should read? You mentioned Zinn for history, but maybe someone more local/lesser known?
Fiction or nonfiction (or maybe one each?), but a book that someone of your experience read and didn't roll their eyes at.

I enjoyed Thomas King and Sherman Alexie but I admit that is pretty narrow. In terms of historical books I read Skyscrapers Hide the Heavens about Indian-White relations in Canada that I remember finding relatively nuanced and critical at the time I read it.

Also bonus question: what subject(s) do you teach and what do you find academically/professionally rewarding about your job outside of giving back to the community?

I like Zuya by Albert White Hat. Very conversational, semi-autobiographical, and White Hat was one of the most respected medicine men and teachers of the Sicangu (Burnt Thigh, Rosebud) Lakota nation. I'll check with the bookstore and see what else they've got for recommendations and the Lakota Studies folks. Remind me if I forget, busy time of year and would be good for the OP. Though don't forget that the real deal ceremonies and knowledge are all oral and rather secret. If you wanna dive deep into traditional culture, spirituality, language etc you have to make friends and get invited to sweat lodge and sun dance.

I don't really like the phrasing "giving back to the community". This might seem pedantic but words have meanings and that gives them an often subtle power. How am I giving, what makes it a gift from me to the community and not a reciprocal relationship? Giving back? Did I take something m? Etc. In particular I don't like the implied dynamic of teach and learn, it suggests I am in the classroom to take empty heads and flll them with facts, like mugs of coffee.

It's a good question though. Let me rephrase it. Not what is my profession, what do I feel is my purpose professionally. I would answer something like... Helping students develop a love of asking questions and some skills to assist in trying to find answers. I would also consider myself a part of the community, not an outsider. Not Lakota nor seeking to "become" one, I'm part of the tiospaye though. And I love to see my students teach me lessons!

Thorium reactors?
Yeah I'm familiar with the basics. How about you go read up on them this weekend yourself, then you teach me on Monday!

Pegnose Pete
Apr 27, 2005

the future


Fritz the Horse posted:

I like Zuya by Albert White Hat. Very conversational, semi-autobiographical, and White Hat was one of the most respected medicine men and teachers of the Sicangu (Burnt Thigh, Rosebud) Lakota nation. I'll check with the bookstore and see what else they've got for recommendations and the Lakota Studies folks. Remind me if I forget, busy time of year and would be good for the OP. Though don't forget that the real deal ceremonies and knowledge are all oral and rather secret. If you wanna dive deep into traditional culture, spirituality, language etc you have to make friends and get invited to sweat lodge and sun dance.

I don't really like the phrasing "giving back to the community". This might seem pedantic but words have meanings and that gives them an often subtle power. How am I giving, what makes it a gift from me to the community and not a reciprocal relationship? Giving back? Did I take something m? Etc. In particular I don't like the implied dynamic of teach and learn, it suggests I am in the classroom to take empty heads and flll them with facts, like mugs of coffee.

It's a good question though. Let me rephrase it. Not what is my profession, what do I feel is my purpose professionally. I would answer something like... Helping students develop a love of asking questions and some skills to assist in trying to find answers. I would also consider myself a part of the community, not an outsider. Not Lakota nor seeking to "become" one, I'm part of the tiospaye though. And I love to see my students teach me lessons!

Thorium reactors?
Yeah I'm familiar with the basics. How about you go read up on them this weekend yourself, then you teach me on Monday!

Thanks for the book recommendation.
I chose the words giving back to the community because I was trying to emphasize that you are a part of it, as opposed to someone coming in to teach for a few years and leave.
Fair play on taking issue with the phrase though, I didn't mean to imply that you took anything from the community but just that you grew up there and were supported by the people around you.
I'm a teacher as well and I definitely see my profession as extremely collaborative, and I also try to emphasize the asking of questions rather than trying to fill heads with answers as you said.
Apologies if my phrasing rubbed you the wrong way, I think the thread is great.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

My rampant shitposting has broke my brain beyond repair. I have no redeemable qualities and wish to be put out of my shitposting misery for good. TIA!

I saw a tribal license plate a few days ago. It was a shuttle to one of the nearby casinos

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



I was going to ask how your community was preparing for coronavirus, but then I saw your posts in the religion thread.

Iím sorry to hear about your situation.

I donít know what else to say. These coming times will be ugly for everyone.

Hereís hoping you donít get the worst of it.

powderific
May 13, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Oh hey, I'm originally from small town western SD along the badlands (we were up by the interstate though so a bit of a drive away.) Had a good friend who was from pine ridge and my dad was a guidance counselor out in Rosebud for a while.

The casual racism that comes out of nowhere is enough to make me queasy when I'm back home.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


powderific posted:

Oh hey, I'm originally from small town western SD along the badlands (we were up by the interstate though so a bit of a drive away.) Had a good friend who was from pine ridge and my dad was a guidance counselor out in Rosebud for a while.

The casual racism that comes out of nowhere is enough to make me queasy when I'm back home.

Oops I forgot about this thread. Been preoccupied figuring out how to do science classes online...

I bet I can name most/all of those towns, heh. Murdo, Kennebec, Kadoka*, Wasta, Philip, Interior etc

And yeah the racism gets extremely bad. One of my colleagues runs a high school lacrosse team, they play in Rapid City (aka Racism City) and last time they were up there got "prairie n____r" a bunch. The coach of one of the RC teams even made a "joke" about how he had a cooler full of beer and I bet the rez kids would like some after the game. That was so very funny it was reported to the school he taught and said rear end in a top hat got fired, good riddance.

It's not so bad on the reservations but as soon as you step outside it gets ugly.

It's not even limited to locals, either. I run a few grant programs and one involves scientists from all over the state. Last time I was at an all-state meeting a couple of new faculty (moved from out of state in the last couple years) came up and asked me if it was true what they'd heard about the reservations, that they shouldn't travel through them and definitely shouldn't be there at night. Uh, no, it's like goddamn any other place. Just don't be foolish and walk down a poorly-lit street at night or something. Even then if you're white (especially a white male) you're probably fine because law enforcement will actually punish tribal members that try to gently caress with you.

*Fun fact, "kadoka" is a Dakota word meaning roughly "hole" or "puncture." In Lakota it would be "kahloka." It references a bar called "Hole in the Wall" that was the center of the old frontier town of Kadoka.

Platystemon posted:

Here’s hoping you don’t get the worst of it.

Thanks, we do have confirmed cases so we'll see how bad it gets. On one hand it's a very rural area so it should be relatively easy to contact trace and quarantine peole that get infected. On the other, healthcare resources are extremely limited especially if you have to rely on IHS.

One thing that's helpful is the (white) culture in the region is very conservative. Yes in the political sense, but more in the sense of being hyper-cautious and well-prepared. The climate is harsh and the legacy of the Dust Bowl still lingers, we got hit hard by it around here. Most everyone has dry and frozen food to survive a severe blizzard and take other precautions. I only have anecdotal evidence to support this but my gut instinct is most people around here will obey the shelter-in-place declarations and are decently well-prepared to tough things out at home.

ChocNitty
Aug 3, 2011


I saw a fun movie on PBS, a mockumentary called ďMore Than FrybreadĒ, about native americans on the rez competing in a cooking competition. Its very low budget and amateurish but its charming and entertaining.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020


Are there res dogs?

If so, can you post pictures of the cutest ones?

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


ChocNitty posted:

I saw a fun movie on PBS, a mockumentary called ďMore Than FrybreadĒ, about native americans on the rez competing in a cooking competition. Its very low budget and amateurish but its charming and entertaining.

I'll have to check that out, thanks for mentioning it! Traditional foods are quite simple in ingredients and preparation, there's a movement to incorporate more sustainable and traditional foods. Rezzes are usually food deserts like many poor inner city neighborhoods - processed unhealthy foods are cheap and everywhere, but fresh fruit and veggies are quite expensive.


Greg12 posted:

Are there res dogs?

If so, can you post pictures of the cutest ones?

Yeah there are a lot of rez dogs around. I, uh, am not fond of them. A lot are semi-feral and there's a group of them that hang out by the building I work in, one of the female dogs made a den and had pups nearby so they were a bit aggressive and made me uncomfortable.

I can't really take pictures right now because I'm working from home out in the country. Maybe when I'm in town but like I said many of them are kinda wild and in poor health, I'm not going to try to get close to them. Dogs are sacred to the Lakota so it's a bit of a touchy subject but imo it's not "cute" to have a bunch of doggos wandering loose around town surviving off peoples' trash. Not healthy for dogs or humans.

Have a picture of my horse instead!

Snicklefritz Kash, registered quarterhorse

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020


Fritz the Horse posted:



I can't really take pictures right now because I'm working from home out in the country. Maybe when I'm in town but like I said many of them are kinda wild and in poor health, I'm not going to try to get close to them. Dogs are sacred to the Lakota so it's a bit of a touchy subject but imo it's not "cute" to have a bunch of doggos wandering loose around town surviving off peoples' trash. Not healthy for dogs or humans.

that sucks. I asked because I did some work with a tiny village for a small res that had a friendlier relationship to the dogs, and they were definitely tame. Some people liked them and some didn't, and nobody was inviting them in, but some people were feeding and petting them.

quote:

Snicklefritz Kash, registered quarterhorse

cute buddy!

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Greg12 posted:

that sucks. I asked because I did some work with a tiny village for a small res that had a friendlier relationship to the dogs, and they were definitely tame. Some people liked them and some didn't, and nobody was inviting them in, but some people were feeding and petting them.


cute buddy!

I'm sure most of those dogs "belonged" to people in the neighborhood who feed and pet them, and most of them are very nice friendly doggos. Mostly they don't bother me, it was the three large-ish dogs protecting their litter that had me nervous. They didn't get too aggressive, just barking at my car when I drove into the parking lot, but they were pretty obviously protecting the nursing momma dog (swollen teats).

I mean, we have a large dog who wanders loose around the ranch. She has a loud, deep bark and will run up to strangers but that's only because she's an incredibly friendly doofus and wants pets. Of course, strangers don't know that, so when the new UPS driver calls us worried about the dog it's totally understandable.

Just wariness of strange animals.

Fun fact, the word for horse in Lakota literally means "large/sacred/powerful dog." Before European contact they used sled dogs to move tipis and supplies around as well as guard their camps. When they got horses apparently their reaction was "sweet, giant dogs!"

Dogs and horses are both Good Boys, theory checks out.

Greg12 posted:

cute buddy!

My horse does a little dance when someone approaches his pen. He'll prance around and kick his rear feet super high while ripping massive farts. I don't know if the high kicks cause him to fart or what

like grampa used to say, "horses are the only animal I know that can turn ten pounds of hay into twenty pounds of poo poo"

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Apr 30, 2020

Weka
May 5, 2019

And if you gaze long into an abyss, you will say `look, no ring.`

That story about the lacrosse coach's racist comment made me wonder, what's the drinking age on the reservation?

Soylent Yellow
Nov 5, 2010

yospos


Do you see the Reservation system as being a nett positive or negative in 2020?

If you could normalise laws, government and services with the rest of the US without screwing everyone over, would you be in favour of doing it?

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


Weka posted:

That story about the lacrosse coach's racist comment made me wonder, what's the drinking age on the reservation?

I don't actually know the answer to that and can't find it on the tribal government website. Historically, many reservations have had very strict alcohol laws and often were dry (no sale of alcohol permitted).

Where I live in South Dakota, several reservations ban sale of alcohol and Pine Ridge also bans possession.

I've never heard of drinking age being lower than the standard 21, I suppose it's possible. In practice I don't think drinking age is enforced very much. There aren't bars or drinking establishments and it's not high priority for tribal police as long as there isn't violence or property destruction.

Soylent Yellow posted:

Do you see the Reservation system as being a nett positive or negative in 2020?

If you could normalise laws, government and services with the rest of the US without screwing everyone over, would you be in favour of doing it?

Definitely a net negative. The only "good" thing about the reservation system is it allows *some* tribes to make money from casinos or tax-free cigarettes and such. Theoretically, a tribe with reservation land is its own sovereign nation and has special legal status. In practice their sovereignty is very restricted and they aren't given the resources to operate independently so it's a huge mess.

The purpose of reservations was/is to remove Native peoples from their lands and force them to assimilate. You steal their land to give to white settlers, then confine them to reservation land which is too small and poor-quality to support the tribe economically. Since they don't have an economic base to provide for themselves, they're entirely dependent on the federal government for basic services including food, healthcare, and housing. This is by design. Early on, the US government was worried about armed uprisings and they wanted to keep tribes weak and reliant on government aid so they wouldn't revolt. Assimilation was presented as the key to escaping reservation life: you get a Western education, abandon your language and culture, and you can make it in the broader society.

So historically, reservations are a form of soft genocide meant to keep tribes weak and compliant and force them to assimilate. The last 40-50 years or so the US gov't has mostly backed off actively trying to assimilate tribes, its attitude is more indifference (or neglect) and exploitation. The federal government (probably) can't get away with just dissolving the tribes and reservations (though they "legally" could) but at the same time the general American population and the government agencies involved really don't care enough to actually improve conditions on the reservations. In modern times, federal and state governments regard tribes more or less as nuisances.




Regarding normalizing laws, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Tribes want to keep and expand their sovereignty and ability to write and enforce their own laws while preserving their culture and language. But, they don't have the resources to do all that without far more support from the government.

One of my coworkers likes to say something along the lines of: "people always complain about the poverty and dysfunction on the rez, how nothing works like it's supposed to. I tell them, it's working incredibly well, exactly as designed." Dependency and dysfunction are what reservations are meant to produce. It's an incredibly complex topic and going to have different solutions for each tribe, but my opinion is we need people and the government to start giving a poo poo and actually help reservations become self-sufficient.

cinni
Oct 17, 2008



Is there much of an LGBTQ community on the rezzes? How is homosexuality seen/treated there?

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


cinni posted:

Is there much of an LGBTQ community on the rezzes? How is homosexuality seen/treated there?

Let me preface my responses by saying they only really apply to the reservations in the Dakotas. I'm not familiar with how, say, Navajo (Dine) culture thinks about LGBTQ folks. My understanding is that like traditional Lakota society, most indigenous American peoples generally respected or at least didn't marginalize LGBTQ people.

There aren't really any population centers, the reservations are very rural. The "largest" towns are one or two thousand people so there just aren't enough numbers of LGBTQ people to form much of a community. Those towns are often also historically attached to religious missions and have a stronger Christian influence. The broader culture in the region is very redneck conservative and there aren't many LGBTQ organizations, school clubs, etc.

Treatment of LGBTQ people is a complicated subject as you might imagine. Traditional, pre- European contact culture treats LGBTQ folks with respect and they're even seen as sacred or possessing unique spiritual gifts. Modern reservation culture is more homophobic. The strength of traditional culture and beliefs varies a lot between families and different residential communities / villages. Historically, extended families (camps) settled in their own small villages so the reservation is dotted with small communities with dozens to a few hundred residents. Each has their own history and character, some hold their own sun dance and other ceremonies and are more traditional. So if you're an LGBTQ person your experience on the reservation will vary a lot depending on the specific area you're living in.

Pre-contact Lakota society had very well-defined gender roles and more or less three gender categories. Women were in charge of domestic activities (cooking, housing) but also important political decisions such as when to make/break camp. Genealogy was tracked through the female line and when a couple married, the man would leave his parents to live with the women and her family. Elder women were generally the highest authority on major decisions for the camp. Women also had reproductive control and chose when to get pregnant, they tried to space children 4 years apart for practical reasons. Men handled hunting, war, care of horses, and public ceremony. It's notable that the role of men increased following European contact. European traders wanted to trade with men, and European expansion created lots more violent conflict between tribes and with European settlers, so men gained more power as leaders for trade and war. They weren't really patriarchal but became moreso over time.

Young boys and girls were raised somewhat separately but especially after puberty. Boys would spend their time with the men learning male tasks, girls with women learning female tasks.

While gender roles were fairly rigid, gender "identities" relative to biological gender were not. There's a saying about how when a child is born they reach for a bow or a basket depending on if they have a male or female spirit. If you were born biologically male but wanted to live as a female you just dressed as a female and did female things, no prob. Same for people born biologically female but wanting to live as men, though I've been told that was rarer. There were also "two-spirit" people who possessed both male and female spirits. Non-cishet people (though let's be careful applying modern terms) were considered sacred and special, they were treated with respect and often had special status in ceremonies and spiritual things.

So they essentially had three gender/sexuality categories which I've tried to describe using modern terminology:
-Cishet male
-Cishet female
-Anything other than the above. LGBTQ broadly, "queer" would be a decent name for this category and would include homosexual men and women, transgendered people, non-binary, etc. They were respected, had unique spiritual and ceremonial roles and were sacred.

On the other hand, more modern culture tends to be fairly homophobic especially toward gay men. So the lived experience for LGBTQ people on the rez is going to depend a lot on location and social context. If you're in a more traditional village or at a sun dance or other ceremony, you'll probably be treated well and even be considered sacred. High school is probably going to suck, though. Living in the larger towns (1,000+ population or so, usually sites of Christian religious missions historically) or off the reservation you're likely to encounter a lot more homophobia.

As a state, South Dakota is racist and homo/transphobic as gently caress.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


It's sort of an inversion of the general trend in America.

America as a whole is more anti-LGBTQ in rural, religious, and more "traditional" or culturally conservative areas.

The opposite is the case on reservations around here. The rural, traditional, culturally conservative areas are more accepting and the more urban and modern/European-influenced areas are less so.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009

We'll roll on with our heads held high.
Our conscience in the gutter,
Our dreams up in the sky.




fwiw eastern band Cherokee lgbtq+ stuff is kind of a trainwreck, too. Can't really speak on Oklahoma but I've heard they're a little more chill.

cinni
Oct 17, 2008



What about sex work on the reservation? Are there prostitutes that work out there or do they go into the nearby towns for that?

Or do the outer town workers come onto the rez for hooking? Is it no big deal or looked down upon? Is it out in the open or more hush hushed?

Thanks for the interesting thread!

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


cinni posted:

What about sex work on the reservation? Are there prostitutes that work out there or do they go into the nearby towns for that?

Or do the outer town workers come onto the rez for hooking? Is it no big deal or looked down upon? Is it out in the open or more hush hushed?

I personally know very little about sex work around here, so I asked one of my colleagues on the Human Services department faculty. Many law enforcement officers, counselors, and social workers on the rez come through that program.

She said that sex work is mostly "hidden" around here, we don't have urban areas where sex workers concentrate. It's not very visible. I personally haven't seen people who look like they're working or been approached. I lived in Los Angeles for eight years and it's very common and visible in certain parts of the city, nothing like that here.

There are three main categories of sex workers in the area:
1) Truck stops, not so much convenience stores but truck stops specifically. One of the highways through the rez is a major trucking route so there is quite a bit of commercial traffic. Truck stops have showers and places for truck drivers to rest overnight. Sex work is common there.
2) Sex trafficking, mainly at hunting lodges, the Sturgis Motorcyle Rally, and "man camps."
3) Sex in exchange for drugs. Substance abuse is pervasive in our communities, particularly alcohol and meth (opiates too but not as severe as many parts of the US).

Sex trafficking definitely gets the most attention locally and regionally. There's a lot of postings on Facebook (most popular social media and communication medium around here) about teenage girls going missing or found dead. Hunting lodges cater to wealthy tourist men, most of the lodges are located off-reservation but there's a lot of trafficking especially of young/underage girls from the rez. The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgis_Motorcycle_Rally is a huge event that brings in half a million bikers annually. It's a big party with lots of booze, drugs, and is notorious for sex trafficking, there are lots of stings set up to try and catch some of it. Finally, in the last couple decades "man camps" have sprung up in the region. They're temporary towns of mostly younger single men who work in the fracking industry or on pipelines. Several of my students mentioned them as to blame for the many young Native girls going missing recently.

We're not aware of any strong cultural feelings about sex work, either positive or negative. It seems like attitudes on the rez are pretty similar to the US as a whole, generally negative.

"Voluntary" sex work (not sex trafficking) is not a high priority for local law enforcement. Sex trafficking and sex for drugs is probably occuring at high rates but it's hard to know for sure since that's all hidden. There are a lot of vulnerable people here that are targets of exploitation and abuse.

cinni posted:

Thanks for the interesting thread!

Sure! I hope my posting doesn't paint too dismal of a picture, I'm just trying to be factual. It's true that reservations in general, and the ones in my area in particular, are very impoverished and face a lot of challenges.

On the other hand, they're still here. That is a testament to the resilience of Native peoples and tribes. After 150+ years of genocide in various forms, they're still alive and slowly improving their situation.

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

fwiw eastern band Cherokee lgbtq+ stuff is kind of a trainwreck, too. Can't really speak on Oklahoma but I've heard they're a little more chill.

Yeah once again I'd like to point out that each of the hundreds of Native American nations has its own culture, traditions, and history. I can only really comment on the seven Lakota/Dakota reservations I'm familiar with.

cinni
Oct 17, 2008



What about rates of murder and violence on the rez? Is it common for there to be assaults and homicides occurring either from native vs native or native vs out of towners? How often do these get solved?

Also you mention the substance abuse issues. Is it easy to find meth? I believe you mentioned that they have to leave the rez to buy alcohol, is being drunk or in possession a huge deal to their law enforcement? I assume the rez has its own detention facility, do they also have their own courts? Id like to hear a bit more about the substance issues that occur there.

I ask these kind of questions because I am a criminal justice major and how law enforcement is handled there is very interesting to me, I don't mean to try to make you talk about only the darker side, I just want to see how these things contrast with the US at large.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019


cinni posted:

What about rates of murder and violence on the rez? Is it common for there to be assaults and homicides occurring either from native vs native or native vs out of towners? How often do these get solved?

Also you mention the substance abuse issues. Is it easy to find meth? I believe you mentioned that they have to leave the rez to buy alcohol, is being drunk or in possession a huge deal to their law enforcement? I assume the rez has its own detention facility, do they also have their own courts? Id like to hear a bit more about the substance issues that occur there.

I ask these kind of questions because I am a criminal justice major and how law enforcement is handled there is very interesting to me, I don't mean to try to make you talk about only the darker side, I just want to see how these things contrast with the US at large.

Yes they have their own detention facilities, there's a tribal prison and in the last 15-20 years they opened a juvenile detention center.

The tribe has their own court system, yes. Unfortunately it's very underfunded and understaffed much like law enforcement in general, so only the worst crimes get prosecuted. A lot of minor stuff just isn't bothered with because the system is so overloaded.



I teach biology and chemistry, criminal justice is just not something I know much about, sorry.

I could put you in touch with our criminal justice instructor, she's actually the faculty member I talked to about sex work in my previous post. Or just get some reading recommendations from her.


edit: also, tribal members vs nonmember (enrollment status) is the important distinction for legal matters, not really native vs non-native. The tribe only has jurisdiction over its own members. If, for example, a Navajo (Dine) person commits a crime, they cannot be prosecuted by the local tribe here since they are not a member of this Lakota tribe.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 14, 2020

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



The specifics of who tribal authorities can prosecute has created a massive clusterfuck where dudes will get in relationships with native women and can basically beat the poo poo out of them with more or less legal impunity because native cops can't do poo poo and state/feds definitely aren't doing anything (or are unable? idk) either. I might be getting the precise interactions of the jurisdictions slightly off, but the tldr is that white dudes beating on native women have about a zero percent chance of getting arrested. Same is basically true in non-reservation circumstances, as well, and yeah abusive dudes specifically pursue native women because of it.

Semi related: it's completely insane how much explicit anti-native racism there is basically everywhere in the US. people who proudly would never say poo poo about other poc will unleash some ridiculously blatant anti-native poo poo. It's crazy too because most of the time it's entirely without people even realizing how prejudiced they're being: there isn't even the cursory 'am i the only white person in the room?' look around. This country fuckin hates natives

cinni
Oct 17, 2008



Yeah I remember hearing about that stretch of highway up near the Canadian border where native girls and women would disappear and/or be murdered along and for decades the authorities just didn't care to really follow up or investigate at all. Its despicable how they have been treated for centuries and still with no end in sight.

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Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

Tanz mit laibach

Im der Pfunderdome!



cinni posted:

Yeah I remember hearing about that stretch of highway up near the Canadian border where native girls and women would disappear and/or be murdered along and for decades the authorities just didn't care to really follow up or investigate at all. Its despicable how they have been treated for centuries and still with no end in sight.

It's about halfway up in BC, but yep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Tears

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