Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«62 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Aw thanks guys but it's 99% plagiarized from Craptacular's lovely OP in the legacy thread, with some bits stolen from Aquarium Gravel. All I've done is added some withe formatting and editorializing.

While I will be doing a larger rework over the coming weeks and months, think of me more as a curator of the OP and less as it's author.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lightbulb Out
Apr 28, 2006

slack jawed yokel


I had quality issues with two different of those Faxon CF handguards. I ended up going PRI and the barrel nut is a little heavier but the attachment feels a lot more secure, and of course - it's actually centered on the barrel. The order of operations is a little more difficult on installation as well.



I'm waiting on their rail sections to show up, as the ones I have are too tall. I also didn't realize at the time what the Mk12 was and that they also used PRI CF handguards.

Fifty Three
Oct 29, 2007



16" 5.56 on the left, suppressed 9" 300BLK on the right. Suppressor is an AAC 762-SDN-6. It owns.

Left has a Geissele SSA-E (I think) trigger that I love, right has an ALG Combat trigger that's not quite as amazing but still really good and a huge step up from the original LPK.


Same lower as the left above, but with a 20" 5.56 upper for maximum Boat Anchor. I love this configuration, it's very well balanced despite weighing a ton and it feels amazing to shoot out past 100yds.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



MantisClaw posted:

I agree. Nothing wrong with a light weight build but for a dedicated hard use training/serious business gun I'd rather have some extra durability. Reinforced upper/lower receivers and heavy barrels come in handy every once and a while.

I question the gamer assessment. I'm a pretty mediocre shot, but for a gamer gun you want heavy. You're only carrying it for maybe 3 minutes at a time, so you'll tend to see gamers with 18" heavy or at least government barrels for increased weight and velocity, and precision-adjustable stocks that weigh more by themselves than the entire Cav-15 lower does. Then of course in the more open divisions you'll also get the dual optics setup whereas the WWSD rifle uses a single micro aimpoint style dot. You'll also see giant brakes to get rid of what little recoil the .223 has, which they eschewed because of the amount of dust they kick up when firing from prone or a weird low angled stance. Granted part of that is definitely their experience in their area, a lot of places aren't nearly as dusty as the American Southwest.

I would also be interested in seeing an actual test of the difference in stringing between pencil barrels and government or M4 profile barrels, a lot of competition stages involve a higher round count than just about any self defense or police shooting. The M16 went to the heavier barrels when the standard method of using the M16 was FA magdumping into jungle bushes, ironically at the same time that the FA capability was removed. I guess you could maybe put the gun in a rest with a few targets downrange and magdump one magazine into each target as fast as you can to see the effects after 30, 60, 90, 120, etc rounds?

What do you mean by reinforced upper/lower? Do you mean billet ones with more meat on them than the standard forged milspec receivers? IIRC part of the inspiration for using the polymer lower was when someone at a competition accidentally ran over a bunch of rifles with their truck. All of the aluminum lowers snapped, but the polymer lower was still functional.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.


I don't think it's gamer in the competition sense of the word, but it is gamer in terms of being min/maxed to a weird degree.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Cyrano4747 posted:

love the OP

Miso Beno posted:

Aw thanks guys but it's 99% plagiarized from Craptacular's lovely OP in the legacy thread, with some bits stolen from Aquarium Gravel. All I've done is added some withe formatting and editorializing.

While I will be doing a larger rework over the coming weeks and months, think of me more as a curator of the OP and less as it's author.

It's still a great effort and editing has a great impact on usefulness, don't discount the value added by your effort.

One addition for 9mm is you can get inserts for pmags - this means you won't need to get a mag insert or a dedicated lower, and the magazines will be the same size so you can use the same manual of arms. Most people say they work well, and gives last round bolt-hold-open out of the box.

Some foibles: the ejector is built into the mag insert, so the magazine has to be inserted in the gun to eject a case (or unfired round) so clearing a gun is slightly different. The ejector pin is also made of plastic and tends to be a bit bendy, and might need to be bent back into shape. Some people have had feeding issues if pressure is put on the magazine bottom (like using it as a monopod)

Overall they're cost competitive with a dedicated insert or lower. They ship in a 5-round configuration and you clip off a plastic bar that serves as a stopper to set them to 10, 20, or 30 round

I'm waiting for my SBR paperwork to clear but I can give an update once I actually use them.

Also, PSA claims they have a "hybrid" 9mm BCG that works with Glock and Colt style mags, but I had nothing but trouble with it with my colt mags.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Re: WWSD I disagree about being questionable - they explained their reasoning pretty well and they didn't min/max against weight too much, otherwise you'd see skeletonized parts and other silliness. It's definitely a niche build, but it's a solid design ethos and everyone I show mine to loves it for how handy it is. Worst thing I can say about it is that it heats up fast and the carbon fiber handguard lets you feel it (I also got the brake version barrel since they were out of the pinned flash hider at the time, and it is a bit obnoxious if you're not the shooter). Definitely wait until the new Brownell's lower comes out though.

Caveat: This is coming from someone that puts a boat-anchor UBR stock on every other AR

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



Using a full-weight BCG is definitely an example of not min-maxing it. They could have shaved off another 3-4 ounces there easily if they were min-maxing weight, but after the interview with Jim Sullivan they decided not to. That's actually one thing I am uncertain about because my understanding from the interview with him was that his concern with lightweight BCGs was the BCG bouncing, but that's really more of a concern for FA builds like the Ultimax that he designed, I've never heard of someone having a bolt bounce problem with a semi-only gun, I don't know if anyone's finger can actually work the trigger fast enough to encounter an issue with that. Then again I'm coming at it from a physics perspective rather than a "put tens of thousands of rounds through ARs" perspective, so I might be considering a spherical AR on a frictionless plane.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.


22 Eargesplitten posted:

Using a full-weight BCG is definitely an example of not min-maxing it. They could have shaved off another 3-4 ounces there easily if they were min-maxing weight, but after the interview with Jim Sullivan they decided not to. That's actually one thing I am uncertain about because my understanding from the interview with him was that his concern with lightweight BCGs was the BCG bouncing, but that's really more of a concern for FA builds like the Ultimax that he designed, I've never heard of someone having a bolt bounce problem with a semi-only gun, I don't know if anyone's finger can actually work the trigger fast enough to encounter an issue with that. Then again I'm coming at it from a physics perspective rather than a "put tens of thousands of rounds through ARs" perspective, so I might be considering a spherical AR on a frictionless plane.

With a bouncy bolt it's not inconceivable to have a condition where the bolt comes to rest slightly out of battery when you use the rifle in dusty conditions or with significant gaps in cleanings, both of which are applicable to how InRange TV uses their gear.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.


22 Eargesplitten posted:

Then again I'm coming at it from a physics perspective rather than a "put tens of thousands of rounds through ARs" perspective, so I might be considering a spherical AR on a frictionless plane.

But what if it was on a treadmill....


Honestly my bone of contention with the WWSD build is that it's tied so hard to the Cab polymer lowers, and those have a full rifle length stock. That makes it a total non starter for anyone less than 5'9", which is basically my entire family.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Using a full-weight BCG is definitely an example of not min-maxing it. They could have shaved off another 3-4 ounces there easily if they were min-maxing weight, but after the interview with Jim Sullivan they decided not to. That's actually one thing I am uncertain about because my understanding from the interview with him was that his concern with lightweight BCGs was the BCG bouncing, but that's really more of a concern for FA builds like the Ultimax that he designed, I've never heard of someone having a bolt bounce problem with a semi-only gun, I don't know if anyone's finger can actually work the trigger fast enough to encounter an issue with that. Then again I'm coming at it from a physics perspective rather than a "put tens of thousands of rounds through ARs" perspective, so I might be considering a spherical AR on a frictionless plane.

Ooh yeah, that's something I meant to add as recommendations for the OP: discussion about reciprocating mass, and that while a semi-auto BCG doesn't need the extra weight and is cheaper you can still sometimes get weird cycling effects from reducing that overall mass. It would also be a good place to discuss the difference in buffers and why you don't want a solid buffer, you want one that has loose weights in it to avoid bolt-bounce (even if that's only really a concern on full auto)

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



A.o.D. posted:

With a bouncy bolt it's not inconceivable to have a condition where the bolt comes to rest slightly out of battery when you use the rifle in dusty conditions or with significant gaps in cleanings, both of which are applicable to how InRange TV uses their gear.

Fair enough, having more inertia approaching the end of movement seems like it would help make sure it stops in the right place when you add variables like powder residue and dirt.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

DarkHorse posted:

Re: WWSD I disagree about being questionable - they explained their reasoning pretty well and they didn't min/max against weight too much, otherwise you'd see skeletonized parts and other silliness. It's definitely a niche build, but it's a solid design ethos and everyone I show mine to loves it for how handy it is. Worst thing I can say about it is that it heats up fast and the carbon fiber handguard lets you feel it (I also got the brake version barrel since they were out of the pinned flash hider at the time, and it is a bit obnoxious if you're not the shooter). Definitely wait until the new Brownell's lower comes out though.

Caveat: This is coming from someone that puts a boat-anchor UBR stock on every other AR

Fixed A2 stocks limit usability for folks wearing armor and smaller folks, CF tubes (fragile under hard use. Army hosed around with these on the Mk12 and they kept making GBS threads themselves, and PRI tubes are hands down better than Faxon Tubes which can't even get made straight), getting mad at the buffer retaining detent which failing to have can make clearing a major stoppage way shittier (and in the hundreds of ARs govmint I've serviced, never seen be a problem, and in the commercial guns have only been an issue when Homebuilder McGee Builds, and though I like the Cav Arms grip angle, I know a bunch of folks who hate it. I'm not a fan of cool guy modified single stage triggers due to longevity issues I've personally experienced, and I've never gotten a JP buffer to function reliably on a full auto gun. Oh and for you anti forward assist folks, get stuffed. There's plenty of reasons why you would want a forward assist, including stoppage mitigation if your bolts running slow in a dandy environment (or if your dumbass managed to cram 31 mags in a 30 round mag which drug slowed the bolt down enough to prevent it from fully returning into battery).

I appreciate the lightweight 14.5" barrel and full weight bcg tho.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

That makes a lot more sense and yeah I agree with all those except maybe the FA; because unless you're in a life or death situation you're probably going to make everything worse jamming something into battery that didn't want to

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

DarkHorse posted:

That makes a lot more sense and yeah I agree with all those except maybe the FA; because unless you're in a life or death situation you're probably going to make everything worse jamming something into battery that didn't want to

I've personally experienced dirty guns that could made to operate thanks to the FA and the whole DI blows poo poo out of the action. Also, handy for press checks and being sneeki breeki.

That said, they can 100% be a jam enhancer. Especially in a gun with tired mags which is why you're supposed to eyeball your gun before mashing it.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



How do you do a press check with the FA? Can you pull on it like a pinball machine/like in Counter-strike? I've never tried, I just pull on the charging handle a little bit.

Personally I'm just more concerned about the idea of smacking on the bolt of a gun with a floating firing pin that's already dirty enough it doesn't want to go into battery. Maybe that's unreasonable, but I feel like if there's enough poo poo in front of the bolt/on the rails that it doesn't want to go home, there's too high of a chance that there's poo poo behind the firing pin holding it forward, ready to cause an OOB detonation. Or is that not a thing? I seem to remember stories about bikers back in the '60s welding/soldering M1 Carbine firing pins forward to make a slamfire FA gun. That's internet hearsay but I'm pretty sure I heard it said here.

Edit: That's my thoughts if it jams up in a non life and death situation though.

22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 9, 2020

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

22 Eargesplitten posted:

How do you do a press check with the FA? Can you pull on it like a pinball machine/like in Counter-strike? I've never tried, I just pull on the charging handle a little bit.

Pull back on the charging handle until you see brass? Riding the bolt home will not always get the gun to lock up.

ThinkFear
Sep 14, 2007



The Rat posted:

But what if it was on a treadmill....


Honestly my bone of contention with the WWSD build is that it's tied so hard to the Cab polymer lowers, and those have a full rifle length stock. That makes it a total non starter for anyone less than 5'9", which is basically my entire family.

Just run an aluminum lower and a fiberlite stock. It's light enough. That or take the cav15 over to the chop saw. It's only a carbine length spring so you can cut off quite a bit.

WWSD is the kind of thing you should take what you like from and leave the rest.The people that obsess about making a 'numbers matching' wwsd clone are like the die hard scout rifle people. There's some good ideas there, but all of it doesn't work for everyone.

This is 5.5lbs with a empty mag. FA bcg, standard aluminum upper and lower. Carbon fiber is a trade off, too, but know your environment.


I don't get when given the chance to redesign the cav15 lowers they didn't opt for spacers to change the lop or even some nice cut lines for easy trimming.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

It's a fun thought exercise and an interesting build, but some folks treat it like it's the penultimate general purpose AR, which is something I disagree strongly with.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



Miso Beno posted:

Pull back on the charging handle until you see brass? Riding the bolt home will not always get the gun to lock up.

So do the press check like I was doing, but then use the FA to make sure it's back in battery? I'm surprised that it's an issue assuming you let go of the charging handle rather than riding it home, but I don't have nearly enough trigger time on my AR to have seen a lot of the issues other people have seen. I've got way more experience with pistols and .22s due to not having a good public outdoor range anywhere near me. Some of the indoor ranges will allow rifles, but I'm not a dickhead like the people that bring AR-10 "pistols" to the 25 yard indoor range.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.


Sometimes you want to ride the bolt forward and then tap it fully into battery with the FA rather than let it go and make a loud noise.

Edit

Miso Beno posted:

It's a fun thought exercise and an interesting build, but some folks treat it like it's the penultimate general purpose AR, which is something I disagree strongly with.

Yeah I agree with this.

darnon
Nov 8, 2009


DarkHorse posted:

Overall they're cost competitive with a dedicated insert or lower. They ship in a 5-round configuration and you clip off a plastic bar that serves as a stopper to set them to 10, 20, or 30 round

The EndoMags are also handy in ban states without having to search for pinned colt mags or going 10-rd Glock. With some trimming they'll fit into a 10/30 Hexmag which was convenient since I had a few already that didn't feed 5.56 great.

MantisClaw
Jun 3, 2011


22 Eargesplitten posted:


What do you mean by reinforced upper/lower? Do you mean billet ones with more meat on them than the standard forged milspec receivers? IIRC part of the inspiration for using the polymer lower was when someone at a competition accidentally ran over a bunch of rifles with their truck. All of the aluminum lowers snapped, but the polymer lower was still functional.

I'm personally referring to things like the Bootleg enhanced upper receiver and the like. Mine took an OOB detonation that would have wrecked a milspec upper according to my resident AR fixer. If you do dumb things with your guns, which I'll admit not everyone does, that increased structural support can be handy for not that much more weight.

Granted the guys I shoot with are known for breaking poo poo. It's to the point that I got accused of having mutant super powers during my last training event.

Like I said before nothing wrong their approach and their reasoning is sound, but the WWSD is very clearly built around their experiences with 2gACM. If a similar situation applies to you then a WWSD would be an excellent option.

:edit:FB

Miso Beno posted:

It's a fun thought exercise and an interesting build, but some folks treat it like it's the penultimate general purpose AR, which is something I disagree strongly with.

MantisClaw fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 9, 2020

Lightbulb Out
Apr 28, 2006

slack jawed yokel


As far as pushing the bolt home when doing checks and stuff.... just push the bolt closed with your finger like the grease gun

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Miso Beno posted:

It's a fun thought exercise and an interesting build, but some folks treat it like it's the penultimate general purpose AR, which is something I disagree strongly with.

Yeah I'm totally on board with this

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Lightbulb Out posted:

As far as pushing the bolt home when doing checks and stuff.... just push the bolt closed with your finger like the grease gun

But then I'll get my fingers dirty.

hamsystem
Nov 11, 2010

Fuzzy pickles!




Here's my first and only AR that should tick the pre-built and cheap boxes. It's a Ruger AR 556 that I put Magpul MOE-SL furniture on. It also has a Larue trigger in it because the factory one was stupid heavy even by mil-spec trigger standards. I don't know how well it'd do for hard use but as a range gun it's been plenty good. With steel cased ammo and the red dot it's about a 2-3 moa gun. I briefly had it set up for deer hunting and could get about half that with a scope and good ammo. It's been roughly 99.9% reliable through about 3k rounds and minimal maintenance.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Lightbulb Out posted:

As far as pushing the bolt home when doing checks and stuff.... just push the bolt closed with your finger like the grease gun

The grease gun ejection port is much larger than the AR's. I can barely push a hold home on my AR10 with gloves on and I don't have particularly wide fingers.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Miso Beno posted:

It's a fun thought exercise and an interesting build, but some folks treat it like it's the penultimate general purpose AR, which is something I disagree strongly with.

I agree, it's the ultimate GP AR build!

But seriously, I'm torn about the Faxon carbon fiber tube more than anything else. They feel fantastic in the hand (much better finished than some other CF offerings), but feeling them you can tell they won't take as much abuse as aluminum tubes, physical shock damage in particular. I also think it's worth going for a Faxon Gunner or BA Hanson profile barrel over pencil because it's seriously only, like, three ounces difference and it'll buy a little more protection against stringing.

Everything else apart from the CavArms lower is stuff I'd want to put in most non-retro ARs anyway (JP buffer, Geissele charging handle, ambi mag release) since those things together make the whole rifle operate so smoothly without also being a mess of snag points and HSLD gizmos.

Lightbulb Out
Apr 28, 2006

slack jawed yokel


Miso Beno posted:

The grease gun ejection port is much larger than the AR's. I can barely push a hold home on my AR10 with gloves on and I don't have particularly wide fingers.

I got lil skinny fingers and haven't really had a problem with my couple of chamber checks. The FA is certainly nicer, don't get me wrong.

My rationale for going without a FA was 1. aesthetics - I like the look a lot better 2. I have never used my FA and I don't know anyone that has other than pushing the bolt closed after a chamber check, which I've done with my finger on the bolt itself.

I went with Faxon gunner barrel, but haven't had a chance to sight in the rifle or anything yet to know how well it's shooting. I was pretty disappointed with the CF handguard having janky fitment, even if it was a lot easier to install. When I called their support, they gave me some suggestions but pretty much told me "we don't have any more, they're our most popular product, send it in if you can't get it to fit right".

Monolith.
Jan 28, 2011

To save the world from the expanding Zone.


Question on the OP: what set the ATF off on single shot 50s?

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Monolith. posted:

Question on the OP: what set the ATF off on single shot 50s?

IIRC they could be fired and cycled without a lower attached, so the ATF classified them as firearms, which removed most of their desirability. Might as well just get a purpose-built gun at that point.

BrianM87
Oct 30, 2006
I keep missing. Are you sure the bullets work?

Monolith. posted:

Question on the OP: what set the ATF off on single shot 50s?

The very short and simple version is the ATF decided that bolt action uppers are to be considered the receiver due to housing the bolt and barrel. Don't think to hard on that one because it will never make sense.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


What about the blackpowder, crossbow and airgun uppers? Anyone still making those?

Action-Bastard
Jan 1, 2008



Debating between a 16" pencil and a pinned 14.5" pencil. Any pros/cons other than "one is slightly shorter" and the ability to change muzzle devices?

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



The most interesting part of the WWSD testing/series for me was them showing how the short pencil barrel performed compared to other options.

Both of my match ARs ended up with 14.5" pencil barrels because I don't shoot enough round count in a stage to heat up enough to get accuracy loss and the weight savings is pretty significant.

I did end up just going with one of the MFT minimilast stocks and a lightweight aluminum handguard instead of the weird materials so my gun is like 6lbs before optics, instead of 5 but it's way more durable.

Action-Bastard posted:

Debating between a 16" pencil and a pinned 14.5" pencil. Any pros/cons other than "one is slightly shorter" and the ability to change muzzle devices?

I've had no issues with 14.5" pin and weld at matches out to 600ish yards.

Only downside is I chose a muzzle device that can't mount a suppressor, but because of the way you should tune the gas system for suppressed vs not suppressed shooting I'm planning on just getting a separate upper for when I get my can to shoot with and keeping the well tuned gas system for my unsuppressed guns.

L0cke17 fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jan 9, 2020

californiasushi
Jun 6, 2004


did the inrange dudes test like 6 different brands of pencil barrels before settling on faxon? what was their criteria? i've only seen part of their "stress test" video and the groups didn't look impressive with the ammo they shot.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



californiasushi posted:

did the inrange dudes test like 6 different brands of pencil barrels before settling on faxon? what was their criteria? i've only seen part of their "stress test" video and the groups didn't look impressive with the ammo they shot.

I think they did a few brands?

I got a SOLGW pencil barrel for my uppers, and they are ~.8moa with 77gr otm factory ammo off a sled, which is way better than I can shoot at a match anyways

californiasushi
Jun 6, 2004


if it's just a few brands that doesn't seem that great to me when you're making the "what would stoner do" ar15 or making the optimal ar15 for any endeavor

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009


californiasushi posted:

did the inrange dudes test like 6 different brands of pencil barrels before settling on faxon? what was their criteria? i've only seen part of their "stress test" video and the groups didn't look impressive with the ammo they shot.

Pretty sure they had settled on faxon before the project started because they have liked the company and done Q&As about the barrel making process but i didn't follow closely and could be wrong

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«62 »