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kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005
capitalism is grinding us all into dust, and the best way we can fight against it is using our power that we have as workers to extract more resources and power from our employers. how do you build power in a workplace? you organize. here's a guide i wrote previously, wow look at how genius it is how i'm basically just taking the work of other people before me:

quote:

How do I organize my workplace?

First: read No Shortcuts by Jane McAlevey. It's not an instruction manual- if you go in expecting that, you'll be confused how it's supposed to be useful. It's the case for why the organizing model for unions is better than the top-down corporate campaign model, where money is spent on, for example, advertisements against the company. Anyway. Just read it. It's great. otoh it's a whole book so you don't HAVE to read a book to organize a workplace, you know, you do you

What follows is a short, hopefully accessible version of steps I learned from Seattle DSA workplace organizing committee. (If you're in Seattle: go to this! It's great!) A similar guide is here.


So your job sucks. Everyone hates it, you're all underpaid, overworked, and constantly on the verge of quitting. What you need to do is organize to build power in your workplace. How do you get started?

  • Listen to people and identify the main issues. People LOVE complaining about their jobs, and if your job is bad enough, it probably won't take too much prodding. You already have your own reasons and your own things that you want to fix, but organizing at work is about finding out what everyone wants. If you talk to people in different departments, there might be an issue you didn't know about that's on everyone's mind: for example, say you work day shift, and the night shift manager is an abusive sexually harassing rear end in a top hat that makes everyone's life miserable.
  • Get your key people together. McAlevey has an important concept of the "organic leader," which is basically the person at work that everyone respects and looks up to. They're probably not in any different official role, they're just that person. Basically, if you talk to people about issues at work and they go "I dunno, what does Bella think?" and Bella is just one of your coworkers, Bella is that organic leader that you need on your side. These people also just naturally know more about what's up at work, because people trust them, so they hear more from more people.
  • Take action. This can, and should, start small- everyone signing a letter to the boss, or wearing a matching button or T-shirt on the same day. Will these initial small actions solve everything? Almost certainly not. But the goal is to build power and build solidarity. People are going to be scared shitless just of wearing that button, then they go "oh poo poo! Even Bella's wearing the button!" and they feel encouraged, proud, and powerful.
  • Escalate. Wearing a button didn't work? Have everyone march into the boss's office at the same time. Have everyone leave their shift exactly on the dot instead of working free extra minutes like you're expected to. Be creative, it's different for every workplace. Keep escalating until you get what you want.

"Wait, I thought the whole point was to get a union! Where in there is unionizing??"

Unionization is an amazing tool and an important step in organizing, but it's neither the only aspect of organizing, nor an end goal by itself. Not to make everyone here pessimistic about unions, but there have been important cases where rank-and-file workers need to fight against their union as well as the bosses to win real victories. I've been a worker at a union job where everyone was super passive and didn't really think anything about the union. That sucks! Whether you're a unionized worker or not, organizing needs to continue. It's a continuous process, not a one-time thing to win one victory and disband. If the organizing collapses, there's nothing to stop bosses from clawing back those things or making other poo poo worse.

That being said: unionizing your workplace is great. Basically, in the process of the above, "forming a union" is one of the action steps you should take. I don't want to get further into the weeds on that then necessary, but yeah, do it, ask questions if you want to and aren't sure how.
talk workplace issues/union poo poo itt.

edit:
DSA and some unions collaborated on this how-to guide (PDF link).

kingcobweb has issued a correction as of 22:57 on Jun 13, 2021

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apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
when you talk to people ask them what they like about their job too. people will often be turned off if youre the person who is seen as constantly complaining and negative. asking people both what they like and what they dont like means you can frame organizing in a less nebulous way and more of a way to make work better by enhancing the positives and reducing the negatives.

along with that is be a good employee, at least to your coworkers. if you want people to listen to you and take your opinion seriously be the person who is willing to do your job well and be a good coworker. if youre seen as being lazy or unhelpful or making their job harder then people will not want to organize with you.

last thing is have one on one discussions with people about something concrete. if theres a particular grievance at your work or something going on focus on that, not a nebulous idea like "hey do you want to form a union?" if you frame it in concrete and specific terms it makes it easier to then make the case for a union by explaining how a union or any kind of organization by the workers can help win that particular demand. it also helps you identify people who might be supportive without putting your neck out if youre unsure what they think. asking people about how they feel about some policy or something and gauging their response can help tell you who would be pro union and who wouldnt be, and thats important because you dont want to out yourself to employees who could be hostile and you also dont want to motivate or mobilize coworkers who could be hostile.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

apropos to nothing posted:

when you talk to people ask them what they like about their job too. people will often be turned off if youre the person who is seen as constantly complaining and negative. asking people both what they like and what they dont like means you can frame organizing in a less nebulous way and more of a way to make work better by enhancing the positives and reducing the negatives.

along with that is be a good employee, at least to your coworkers. if you want people to listen to you and take your opinion seriously be the person who is willing to do your job well and be a good coworker. if youre seen as being lazy or unhelpful or making their job harder then people will not want to organize with you.

last thing is have one on one discussions with people about something concrete. if theres a particular grievance at your work or something going on focus on that, not a nebulous idea like "hey do you want to form a union?" if you frame it in concrete and specific terms it makes it easier to then make the case for a union by explaining how a union or any kind of organization by the workers can help win that particular demand. it also helps you identify people who might be supportive without putting your neck out if youre unsure what they think. asking people about how they feel about some policy or something and gauging their response can help tell you who would be pro union and who wouldnt be, and thats important because you dont want to out yourself to employees who could be hostile and you also dont want to motivate or mobilize coworkers who could be hostile.

this is all great advice, at DSA we had a presentation from someone who worked at UPS and organized his workplace (despite his union rather than because of it) and something he emphasized was to be a good worker, to make yourself indispensable

this does multiple things:
  • your coworkers know you're not just a complainer, you're a hard worker who wants to make things better
  • if you can help them with things at the job, they'll rely on you and learn to see you as a leader
  • it makes it way more difficult for them to fire you if you are (in UPS guy's example) one of two people at the work site authorized to pilot a forklift

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

kingcobweb posted:

this is all great advice, at DSA we had a presentation from someone who worked at UPS and organized his workplace (despite his union rather than because of it) and something he emphasized was to be a good worker, to make yourself indispensable

this does multiple things:
  • your coworkers know you're not just a complainer, you're a hard worker who wants to make things better
  • if you can help them with things at the job, they'll rely on you and learn to see you as a leader
  • it makes it way more difficult for them to fire you if you are (in UPS guy's example) one of two people at the work site authorized to pilot a forklift

yeah, your comment about the worker organizing in spite of the union brings up another good point: if you are building a union, the union is you the workers, not whatever agency you go with e.g. SEIU. when you start you need to build a strong core group of people that understand that and are looking to make the union truly democratic and run from the bottom up. this is your organizing committee. before you actually start the process of unionizing you should have around 10% of your workforce actively looking to organize who are coming to meetings and talking to their coworkers as well, and around 40-50% that you have mapped out and know that they will sign cards if a union vote comes.

if you dont have that strong core of rank and file organizers, then the union agency can come in and wreck poo poo for you, seen that happen in places before, or the union becomes very bureaucratic with low participation and doesnt actually accomplish anything. i know a lot of union staff and theyre good people but their agencies often dont care as much about your local as they do their national org and what your local means for it. they can often times be an obstacle to organizing even if it sounds crazy at first.

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
I briefly mentioned mapping above so here's a short blurb on what it is. its just cataloging how supportive someone is of a union/organizing by assigning them a number. a 1 is people like you, the organizers and anyone else who will come to meetings and be active and actually do poo poo. a 2 is someone who will sign a card and pay dues. a 3 is undecided. a 4 is soft opposition. a 5 is a hard and fast no, usually dont even bother talking to them. when you actually start your campaign in earnest and are talking to people to sign cards, your goal shouldnt be to turn a 4 into a 1, its always to move them 1 step closer to a 1. if you turn a 4 into a 3 thats a victory.

use a spreadsheet to track all this and also get the phones and emails of the 1s and 2s so you can pester them with texts and emails and stuff to keep them engaged and mobilized during the card drive or during campaigns.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

kingcobweb posted:

this is all great advice, at DSA we had a presentation from someone who worked at UPS and organized his workplace (despite his union rather than because of it) and something he emphasized was to be a good worker, to make yourself indispensable

this does multiple things:
  • your coworkers know you're not just a complainer, you're a hard worker who wants to make things better
  • if you can help them with things at the job, they'll rely on you and learn to see you as a leader
  • it makes it way more difficult for them to fire you if you are (in UPS guy's example) one of two people at the work site authorized to pilot a forklift

I also work for UPS and would like to hear more about this.

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Lightning Knight posted:

I also work for UPS and would like to hear more about this.

I remember more about the tactics and the result than the actual issues they were organizing around, so I apologize for that. The workers in question were order picks, iirc, but might have been some other jobs. So they were putting packages on a conveyer belt and... some other things :shobon:

From what I remember, one of the issues was at breaks- that the workers had no input on when their breaks were, so they were going long times without breaks and then some people were taking breaks just barely before the end of their shift, so it barely mattered that they had the break at all

The organizer tried to go through the union to fix this, filed grievances, but nothing happened. It was a classic case of an old-school union that was clogged with bureaucracy. So what did he do? Organize! He was a good worker and people respected him in his workplace, and everyone else (even the politically conservative) were pissed off

Jobs like UPS have big advantages for people who want to organize: their massive number of rules. So his tactic was one of malicious compliance. As you probably know, UPS has a rule for order pickers to do a "six sided check" of all packages; basically making sure it's not damaged on any part of the package. So, when the manager denied them a break that they wanted to take, he would call out "six sided check" to initiate a work slowdown: all the order pickers would look at each side of every package for a second or two before putting it on the belt. Envelopes have six sides, too, of course.

At one point, his manager got so mad at this that he pushed one of the order pickers aside and started moving the packages onto the belt himself. This is, of course, a serious violation of many rules; the Teamsters would consider it non-union workers doing union work, and he was violating safety regulations in how he was doing it. So the organizer baited the manager into doing things that he could file a very serious grievance about and get that manager chewed out.

The organizer wasn't trying to make things difficult for the shift that took over after his: if the next shift started and there was a huge backlog of stuff for them to do, that shift would understandably go "wghat the gently caress" and be pissed off. So he used his workplace connections to have one-on-ones with shift leaders there and let them know about the issues and get them onboard with doing the same thing.

Eventually, the management gave in, and let them choose when to take their breaks. So the end result was that the workers would democratically choose when to go on break: if there was only an hour left of packages, but their break was scheduled, they'd take a vote of whether they wanted to work through it and get 15m paid at the end of the shift, or take a break right then. Workers who were new transfers would be absolutely blown away at how they had an actual say in how their workplace functioned.

Worker organizing gets the goods!

klapman
Aug 27, 2012

this char is good
The fact that this thread was ignored and buried while weekend warriors espouse the need for calls to violence in the Housekeeping thread is laughable. This is the kind of poo poo that actually leads to good results, not pretending like you're totally going to go kill Jeff Bezos. Weak rear end poo poo.

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008




lets give it a sticky for a week and see what happens

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

klapman posted:

The fact that this thread was ignored and buried while weekend warriors espouse the need for calls to violence in the Housekeeping thread is laughable. This is the kind of poo poo that actually leads to good results, not pretending like you're totally going to go kill Jeff Bezos. Weak rear end poo poo.

:hmmyes:

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


this is the Good Stuff right here

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
Hello all! Your friendly, neighborhood union steward here.

My suggestion to you all is to learn the basics of being a union steward and represent your coworkers in disciplinary matters. Functioning in that capacity will allow you to gaze at the inner workings of organizational management power.

A basic exercise to teach your coworkers is the workplace equivalent of the legal Miranda Rights called the Weingarten Rights. This specific right emphasizes that management is not your friend, and that any meeting with them needs representation for the employees to prevent abuses by management. Anytime a member of management wants to pull an employee aside to have any discussion, employees should recite the Weingarten Rights. I made cards that I distributed to all of my coworkers with the following text:

"If this discussion could in any way lead to my being disciplined or terminated, I respectfully request that my shop steward be present at the meeting. Without representation present, I choose not to respond to any questions or statements."


A good resource for learning the ABCs of stewardship can be found here:

https://spfpa.org/online-steward-training-manual.html

Gringostar
Nov 12, 2016
Morbid Hound


also acab

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Squizzle posted:

lets give it a sticky for a week and see what happens

oh poo poo was not expecting this for a thread that didn't take off, thanks!

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005
i don't have the job any more so i don't have to be cagey about it now: i was working for the Nevada State Democratic Party and unsuccessfully tried to unionize it with Campaign Workers Guild. it wasn't many people, just 10-15 or so depending on exactly when, but it was always within 1-2 auth cards of going through.

what i learned is that until someone signs the loving card everything they say doesn't mean poo poo. there was a time that i actually thought we HAD IT until someone went back on their promise to sign on if they would have the deciding vote.

if it was just the people in Vegas it would have gone through no problem, but people up in Reno were 1/3 of the people employed by the party and i couldn't get a single one of them to sign on.

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Question about how to approach people in my profession (comp toucher), but I guess more broadly antagonistic-to-union people. It's a question that's been bothering me - I do work for my local unionizing organizations but unionizing in my own workplace has been difficult.

You see, we had a problem with our manager. To the point people were organising lowkey meetings to talk about his bullshit.

I look at this and see soil ripe for some leftist organisation. So I suggested unionising and the response was an overwhelming 'meh' except for a few people. The prevailing opinion was that it was leftist and come on, comp touchers need no unions.

The thing is, in my country the legislation is literally just sign a document with 10 people you get all the protections, the union is formed. But even though it would have solved our problems most people were against. So how would you approach the education of those kinds of people?

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

dex_sda posted:

Question about how to approach people in my profession (comp toucher), but I guess more broadly antagonistic-to-union people. It's a question that's been bothering me - I do work for my local unionizing organizations but unionizing in my own workplace has been difficult.

You see, we had a problem with our manager. To the point people were organising lowkey meetings to talk about his bullshit.

I look at this and see soil ripe for some leftist organisation. So I suggested unionising and the response was an overwhelming 'meh' except for a few people. The prevailing opinion was that it was leftist and come on, comp touchers need no unions.

The thing is, in my country the legislation is literally just sign a document with 10 people you get all the protections, the union is formed. But even though it would have solved our problems most people were against. So how would you approach the education of those kinds of people?

it sounds like you’re approaching this with the mindset that forming a union is the only end goal. it shouldn’t be the only goal, and it’s not even an end in itself- it’s a way to get more power at work, but there’s things to do before and after

instead of talking “we need a union” with anti-union stuff, talk about actions you CAN take that would be helpful and possible. what sorts of issues are you having?

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


kingcobweb posted:

it sounds like you’re approaching this with the mindset that forming a union is the only end goal. it shouldn’t be the only goal, and it’s not even an end in itself- it’s a way to get more power at work, but there’s things to do before and after

instead of talking “we need a union” with anti-union stuff, talk about actions you CAN take that would be helpful and possible. what sorts of issues are you having?

It's kind of back in the past - I switched jobs since - but the issues that were happening were general abuse of workers that didn't agree with the manager; a disregard for our work-life balance, and most importantly, to drive profits up, an actual order to commit a crime. Obviously I can't divulge details, but it was severe stuff.

People have set up a bunch of meetings to talk what to do about it, that went nowhere and were basically just some whining. I figured this was the best moment to suggest unionising, which in my country basically allows you to protect any union member from firing, automatically. We would then use that to push back against the idea of especially the illegal stuff, but also fight against the other problems. For instance, you can send union reps to the management to negotiate, and we'd obviously have a lot of leverage because we had documented proof the manager in question was asking us to commit a crime. And if any proceedings happen, as a member of an union you can get automatic legal representation from the central union organisation. HR stonewalled us, of course. The thing that struck me was that except for a couple very enthusiastic people it was met with an outright hostility, like unionising was beneath them even though they took the time to do #resistance style hidden meetings to whine.

dex_sda has issued a correction as of 23:41 on May 15, 2020

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

dex_sda posted:

It's kind of back in the past - I switched jobs since - but the issues that were happening were general abuse of workers that didn't agree with the manager; a disregard for our work-life balance, and most importantly, to drive profits up, an actual order to commit a crime. Obviously I can't divulge details, but it was severe stuff.

People have set up a bunch of meetings to talk what to do about it, that went nowhere and were basically just some whining. I figured this was the best moment to suggest unionising, which in my country basically allows you to protect any union member from firing, automatically. We would then use that to push back against the idea of especially the illegal stuff, but also fight against the other problems. For instance, you can send union reps to the management to negotiate, and we'd obviously have a lot of leverage because we had documented proof the manager in question was asking us to commit a crime. HR stonewalled us, of course. The thing that struck me was that except for a couple very enthusiastic people it was met with an outright hostility, like unionising was beneath them even though they took the time to do #resistance style hidden meetings to whine.

what I would have tried to do in that situation is direct those meetings (which are already a great first step) toward action, even if people won’t get along with a union. direct people toward: “okay, what’s the best way to fix this?” would a walkout be effective? maybe a letter to the CEO? refusal to work in ways that violate rules? say that you won’t obey an order unless it’s given to you in writing to force them to have written evidence they’re ordering a crime? etc etc

while those meetings might have ended up just being an airing of grievances, those are actually a big, important step: they show that people are willing to set something up outside of work to talk about it. you just need to add actions to that structure.

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


kingcobweb posted:

what I would have tried to do in that situation is direct those meetings (which are already a great first step) toward action, even if people won’t get along with a union. direct people toward: “okay, what’s the best way to fix this?” would a walkout be effective? maybe a letter to the CEO? refusal to work in ways that violate rules? say that you won’t obey an order unless it’s given to you in writing to force them to have written evidence they’re ordering a crime? etc etc

while those meetings might have ended up just being an airing of grievances, those are actually a big, important step: they show that people are willing to set something up outside of work to talk about it. you just need to add actions to that structure.

I used the meetings to proselytize to the people who were receptive and converted one to more leftist thought, not a total waste. :) But I don't know if I agree with that 'show they are willing' thing, it might just be whining. Computer touchers are a weird bunch in this respect, far less of anything that would approach consciousness of their own subservience and issues with the worker/employer relationship. We have used the "won't obey an order unless in writing" thing under my and a friend's insistence almost immediately (most others were just going with it!!), and that's what led to the scraps of proof we had. The manager was CEO's friend, classic nepotism. Walkout would be effective and I haven't suggested that, maybe that was the mistake. I think the idea of directing action is a good one.

It just felt really demoralising to see people not even consider a solution which actually solved the trouble.

dex_sda has issued a correction as of 23:59 on May 15, 2020

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT
I'm in this union and it owns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

klapman
Aug 27, 2012

this char is good
I know I posted angry earlier, and I have to admit when I saw the thread got updated I got super ready for a slapfight, but it was so rewarding to see the thread actually become active again. I'm pretty unemployable because I don't have health insurance and a bad case of bipolar, but the stuff I read in this thread before I realized it died was so well organized and useful that it really frustrated me to see it lose traction. Good luck to you all, and once I'm medicated and back in the workforce, I'll use everything I learn in this thread to help further the cause.

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003
a lot of this stuff applies to all organizing not just workplace stuff too. organizing tenants, neighbors, even building a party or organization many of the same ideas and principles hold up.

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


klapman posted:

I know I posted angry earlier, and I have to admit when I saw the thread got updated I got super ready for a slapfight, but it was so rewarding to see the thread actually become active again. I'm pretty unemployable because I don't have health insurance and a bad case of bipolar, but the stuff I read in this thread before I realized it died was so well organized and useful that it really frustrated me to see it lose traction. Good luck to you all, and once I'm medicated and back in the workforce, I'll use everything I learn in this thread to help further the cause.

I completely understand your woes, and think that an organising thread should be a permanent cspam sticky. Same for peaceful nonobedience tactics tbh. Because gently caress it, all we got down in the dumps is each other - dumb assholes pretending better things are possible. Anyone who would get angry at you over asking for better resources for organising is no friend of mine.

And, if you need help, we got the goonfund, and I feel you can always ask for stuff. We're assholes, but we got a bit of class awareness at least. Or I like to think so...

Btw, you are not unemployable. You are a person that deserves dignity, just like every person. Never forget that. :)

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

dex_sda posted:

It's kind of back in the past - I switched jobs since - but the issues that were happening were general abuse of workers that didn't agree with the manager; a disregard for our work-life balance, and most importantly, to drive profits up, an actual order to commit a crime. Obviously I can't divulge details, but it was severe stuff.

People have set up a bunch of meetings to talk what to do about it, that went nowhere and were basically just some whining. I figured this was the best moment to suggest unionising, which in my country basically allows you to protect any union member from firing, automatically. We would then use that to push back against the idea of especially the illegal stuff, but also fight against the other problems. For instance, you can send union reps to the management to negotiate, and we'd obviously have a lot of leverage because we had documented proof the manager in question was asking us to commit a crime. And if any proceedings happen, as a member of an union you can get automatic legal representation from the central union organisation. HR stonewalled us, of course. The thing that struck me was that except for a couple very enthusiastic people it was met with an outright hostility, like unionising was beneath them even though they took the time to do #resistance style hidden meetings to whine.

it's good to have a material example of what organization is. i mean this literally. most people, especially in management but very much the working class too, believe organization is a form of sorcery. especially in tech. say the right words, maybe even get together to say words like a ritual, and then stuff just happens. it doesn't work that way. and proposing unionization to people like that leaves them no way to connect the words to a material change of behavior. organizing needs to be learned and practiced. start simple. gaming a KPI is a good babby's first organization for tech work, it's by definition a common metric that effects everyone that's ultimately disconnected from reality.

if your customer service or tech or whatever department is drowning in tickets, you can organize your behavior collectively to make the load bearable by changing the focus from clearing all the tickets to clearing X tickets/day or whatever schedule is bearable. when managers demand more tickets cleared, you can use organization to coordinate and collectively say that's impossible: we can clear X tickets/day. if the manager wants to improve his own performance indicators, they have to deal with this. this increases your quality of worklife and forces the rest of the business to react, either by assigning more resources, reducing marketing efforts or other changes in the business. it's about identifying shared information (e.g., KPI) and needs (quality of worklife sucks if you're always overloaded) and effectuating a solution (the people who do the work discuss what is a reasonable target and reinforce that among each other).

from there, people can generalize to a union. in my experience it's often even well-received on the management side unless you go out of your way to be adversarial. i'm coming at this from a european angle so i'm not sure if i've baked in some assumptions about how likely "literally everyone is fired" is that aren't sound in america. i have to assume it's not a common occurrence since if nothing else it's a fairly expensive move, i guess.

dex_sda
Oct 11, 2012


Zodium posted:

it's good to have a material example of what organization is. i mean this literally. most people, especially in management but very much the working class too, believe organization is a form of sorcery. especially in tech. say the right words, maybe even get together to say words like a ritual, and then stuff just happens. it doesn't work that way. and proposing unionization to people like that leaves them no way to connect the words to a material change of behavior. organizing needs to be learned and practiced. start simple. gaming a KPI is a good babby's first organization for tech work, it's by definition a common metric that effects everyone that's ultimately disconnected from reality.

if your customer service or tech or whatever department is drowning in tickets, you can organize your behavior collectively to make the load bearable by changing the focus from clearing all the tickets to clearing X tickets/day or whatever schedule is bearable. when managers demand more tickets cleared, you can use organization to coordinate and collectively say that's impossible: we can clear X tickets/day. if the manager wants to improve his own performance indicators, they have to deal with this. this increases your quality of worklife and forces the rest of the business to react, either by assigning more resources, reducing marketing efforts or other changes in the business. it's about identifying shared information (e.g., KPI) and needs (quality of worklife sucks if you're always overloaded) and effectuating a solution (the people who do the work discuss what is a reasonable target and reinforce that among each other).

from there, people can generalize to a union. in my experience it's often even well-received on the management side unless you go out of your way to be adversarial. i'm coming at this from a european angle so i'm not sure if i've baked in some assumptions about how likely "literally everyone is fired" is that aren't sound in america. i have to assume it's not a common occurrence since if nothing else it's a fairly expensive move, i guess.

This makes a lot of sense. :)

I'm reticent on details because of the crime thing in this situation but yes this is Europe and at least a bit safer. Problem was though that it was a sudden change because of nepotism and a lot of threats of dismissal or of moving people to lovely departments were being thrown around like candy. Slow pushback in such an emergency is difficult :(

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

apropos to nothing posted:

a lot of this stuff applies to all organizing not just workplace stuff too. organizing tenants, neighbors, even building a party or organization many of the same ideas and principles hold up.

My neighbourhood is pretty poor and the government has done jack for tenants, does anyone have experience with organizing mutual aid?

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

dex_sda posted:

This makes a lot of sense. :)

I'm reticent on details because of the crime thing in this situation but yes this is Europe and at least a bit safer. Problem was though that it was a sudden change because of nepotism and a lot of threats of dismissal or of moving people to lovely departments were being thrown around like candy. Slow pushback in such an emergency is difficult :(

yeah. don't doxx yourself, i just thought your post was a good springboard into starting from zero tbh. I think it also goes to show that waiting for some sufficiently critical event and hoping everyone will then self-organize or develop class consciousness is futile. we won't. in a crisis, like "the boss just ordered us to Do Crimes," we'll pretty consistently freeze, panic and bikeshed all the way off a cliff--unless there's a mature and prepared organization ready to step in to provide an alternative.

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003

mila kunis posted:

My neighbourhood is pretty poor and the government has done jack for tenants, does anyone have experience with organizing mutual aid?

what do you mean by mutual aid? can have a lot of meanings. I'd say generally approaching organization solely from the premise of trying to provide mutual aid is depoliticizing. the political precedes the organizational, so having a demand, a reason, etc. for organizing is what's important. for example if rents in the building/neighborhood are too high, talk to fellow tenants about the rent and how it's too high and how you can organize to collectively fight for lower rent. basically the point im making is you cant tell people what to care about. what do they care about, and then make the argument that the best way to achieve that is to organize collectively to achieve the demand, goal, whatever.

a lot of mutual aid groups serve as charity and attempt to recruit people on the basis of come do this charity because its good. well, this doesnt politicize for people the idea that really what is needed is a collective fight against the rich and political elites who are creating the conditions which necessitate the charity. now, if people are looking for ways to organize to provide relief to one another then yeah that becomes a pole to organize around and especially now during the corona virus a lot of people are looking for this specifically.

basically you need to talk to people, see what their concerns and grievances are. then make the case that the way to fight to resolve those grievances is to organize collectively. then the process of organizing really begins. its a complex process and takes time, sometimes years, and its not easy to sum up in a single post but the key thing is that the political question precedes the organizational one. have to have a political point to organize to motivate the process of organizing people, which takes time and energy that people will not engage with unless they are politically motivated to do so.

thehandtruck
Mar 5, 2006

the thing about the jews is,

apropos to nothing posted:

it also helps you identify people who might be supportive without putting your neck out if youre unsure what they think. asking people about how they feel about some policy or something and gauging their response can help tell you who would be pro union and who wouldnt be, and thats important because you dont want to out yourself to employees who could be hostile and you also dont want to motivate or mobilize coworkers who could be hostile.

it's simultaneously dope and depressing that unionizing requires a bit of spycraft

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016

from what i recall, steven yuen did a pretty great job depicting a salt in sorry to bother you

up until the point where yuen's character is literally leading a general strike from the vanguard of a new union, he's pretty low-key and subtle in gauging his coworkers' job satisfaction and gleaning information from them over time through casual conversation, recruiting them without seeming forceful, and proving that he genuinely listens to and cares about their grievances.

he also quietly leaves the narrative once the job is done

Optimus Subprime
Mar 26, 2005

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?

https://labornotes.org/secrets/handouts

https://uale.org/document-table/resources/resources-for-activism/543-secrets-trainers-guide-labor-notes/file

those are all the hand outs and trainers guide for the labor notes secrets of a successful organizer training. I’ve attended the training and it’s pretty good, lots of practical advice for creating a campaign, mapping a workplace, etc.

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!
i'm talking to a good friend in the service industry (salons) in Texas, and they're trying to organize their workplace. please contact me if you can help them, and i'll put you in contact with them

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Finicums Wake posted:

i'm talking to a good friend in the service industry (salons) in Texas, and they're trying to organize their workplace. please contact me if you can help them, and i'll put you in contact with them

What kind of help do they need?

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

kingcobweb posted:

What kind of help do they need?

they're trying to make organize their workplace (pretty much) on their own.

but, if there are any unions in texas that represent salons, or service workers in general, that they could get in touch with, please let me know

Optimus Subprime
Mar 26, 2005

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?

if i understand how salons generally work, a unique challenge they may have is that each stylist is a independent contractor/self employed worker that just rents a chair at a salon. kind of resembles the building trades like electricians where there is the ibew that represents electricians, but each electrician is hired out as a union contractor at a consistent wage depending on their skill set and experience. your friend may want to reach out to the local building trade unions and ask for advice.

the building trades also have to compete with non-unionized contract labor, possibly in a similar fashion to what organized stylists would have to deal with

Optimus Subprime has issued a correction as of 18:31 on May 21, 2020

Finicums Wake
Mar 13, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 8 years!

Optimus Subprime posted:

if i understand how salons generally work, a unique challenge they may have is that each stylist is a independent contractor/self employed worker that just rents a chair at a salon. kind of resembles the building trades like electricians where there is the ibew that represents electricians, but each electrician is hired out as a union contractor at a consistent wage depending on their skill set and experience. your friend may want to reach out to the local building trade unions and ask for advice.

the building trades also have to compete with non-unionized contract labor, possibly in a similar fashion to what organized stylists would have to deal with

from what i gather, this doesn't apply to their and their coworkers' situation. i'm probably being paranoid, but i'm not gonna say any more than that for op sec reasons. anyways, if anyone knows labor organizers in texas or knows of already-existing unions that might be able to help them out, please let me know in this thread. i can either buy private messages to get in contact with people, or you can contact me on twitter at @Tarp_Ghost

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

Optimus Subprime posted:

if i understand how salons generally work, a unique challenge they may have is that each stylist is a independent contractor/self employed worker that just rents a chair at a salon. kind of resembles the building trades like electricians where there is the ibew that represents electricians, but each electrician is hired out as a union contractor at a consistent wage depending on their skill set and experience. your friend may want to reach out to the local building trade unions and ask for advice.

the building trades also have to compete with non-unionized contract labor, possibly in a similar fashion to what organized stylists would have to deal with

My mom is a stylist so I figure I'll contribute, as she's worked on the two different "ends" of the work.

For quite some time she worked in the salon area of a large department store. I can't remember exactly how pay worked since I was very young at the time. But she was paid by the department store, had some measure of benefits, etc. I'm imagining this is also how things worked for chains such as Great Clips, and I'm guessing this is the situation the friend of Finicums Wake is in.

The department store was bought out by another chain, and their benefits were cut incredibly bad, and my mom and a lot of her coworkers then went the self-employed route (taking their regular clientele with them).This is the end you're talking about - she's rented booths or stations at a number of different salons over the years, and rent is all she pays. Sometimes the owner of the space is simply a landlord, sometimes it's a fellow stylist who is also working there. She and the other renters all set their own prices, and it's not really an issue because, again, they work almost exclusively with their own clientele who are there specifically to see their particular stylist. Occasionally there's a walk-in one might take if they have the availability and the inclination, but that's it. There's not really space for unionization in this case because the owner is not employer, but that doesn't mean there's still not room for collective action. For instance, at the last salon my mom worked out of, she had made repeated requests for maintenance to be done on...something, I can't remember what. Her behavior was framed as her being "hostile" and when her lease renewal was up, she was informed by the owner (who is not a stylist, for the record) that they would not be renewing it. Almost every other stylist there made it clear that either that renewal happens, or they walk. The renewal happened. At the same time, the reality of that situation was also one of these being experienced stylists with decades of experience, established clienteles, and who were extremely reliable renters. Stylists early in their careers likely would not have had this leverage. But they did, and they used it.

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


mila kunis posted:

My neighbourhood is pretty poor and the government has done jack for tenants, does anyone have experience with organizing mutual aid?

I'd like to see some stuff on this too. Me and a buddy were all primed to go canvassing with a nice pamphlet that had what few rights tenants had in my state, contact info for a free legal service, invite them to a follow-up meeting where we talk about what a tenants union is and get something started

then covid 19 hit and welp there goes our plans lol. now it's just him posting rights info on social media

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FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Der Kommander

This thread rules and I’m gonna do that reading this weekend. I live in a super unfriendly to labor state and while I just got elected to a position of leadership the thought of trying to organize is just incredibly daunting given the size of my org and inability to meet in person for a while. But it’s needed and I’ll try my best.

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