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mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
British carrier hosts USMC fighters to strike into Syria and Iraq from the Eastern Med.

https://twitter.com/oirspox/status/1407275200438210560?s=21

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InAndOutBrennan
Dec 11, 2008
A pretty good take on the Russian claims of warning-bombing the Defender:
https://www.greatpower.us/p/hms-defender-goes-for-a-pleasure

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

mlmp08 posted:

British carrier hosts USMC fighters to strike into Syria and Iraq from the Eastern Med.

https://twitter.com/oirspox/status/1407275200438210560?s=21

Have the VSOs forgotten we have RAF Akrotiri? Bit of an oversight.

Vindolanda
Feb 13, 2012

It's just like him too, y'know?

InAndOutBrennan posted:

A pretty good take on the Russian claims of warning-bombing the Defender:
https://www.greatpower.us/p/hms-defender-goes-for-a-pleasure

The Crimea is, was, and always must be British. Also French and Turkish. Too long since all the lads have been on a jaunt.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Defense Watch Watch

So this is fortunately just dumb and embarrassing as opposed to nightmarish and awful.

So the Canadian military has been trying to get its feet wet with information warfare, and thus far has not exactly covered itself in honor. First it lied about wolves in Nova Scotia. Then it...conducted a surveillance operation on the black lives matter political movement. (This is one case where I can give the CF the benefit of the doubt; it could have been like those "plans" that war colleges do for practice, like the US invading Canada, IE an exercise where the target was as innocuous as possible. On the other hand, racism. Hell, considering PM Trudeau contributed some money, maybe the idea was to look for blackmail material (pardon the pun) to put the brakes on the fed ruining the Canadian officers rape and coverup club.)

But surprise, the CF didn't know that all of these things were illegal, though the illegality appears to be that "the pols didn't approve it." Which seems a mite convenient, considering another project they were working on was

quote:

Last year the branch launched a controversial plan that would have allowed military public affairs officers to use propaganda to change attitudes and behaviours of Canadians as well as collect and analyze information from the public’s social media accounts.

[...]

The plan was circulated at National Defence headquarters in draft form and would have seen staff move from traditional government methods of communicating with the public [ed note: you know, lies, stonewalling, and silence] to a more aggressive strategy of using information warfare and influence tactics on Canadians.

[...]

The initiative, overseen by Brig. Gen. Jay Janzen, was part of a shift at National Defence headquarters to what was dubbed “the weaponization of public affairs.”

Which is clearly something the DND would be all for what with people still not agreeing that all their procurement programs are fine and sex crime isn't a problem in the Canadian forces

Captain von Trapp
Jan 23, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.
Does Canada not have an equivalent of the Posse Comitatus Act?

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Captain von Trapp posted:

Does Canada not have an equivalent of the Posse Comitatus Act?

Kinda, the National Defence Act allows for various levels of govt to request military aid/support. The biggest example of its use was probably the Oka Crisis in 1990 where the premier of Quebec called in the army. This was actually against the wishes of the federal PM but because law and order are a provincial responsibility they got army and tanks and poo poo.

There are other examples but they are mostly to do with helping with natural disasters like floods and snowfall.

priznat fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 25, 2021

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

priznat posted:

Kinda, the National Defence Act allows for various levels of govt to request military aid/support. The biggest example of its use was probably the Oka Crisis in 1990 where the premier of Quebec called in the army. This was actually against the wishes of the federal PM but because law and order are a provincial responsibility they got army and tanks and poo poo.

Ah yes, the Oka crisis - "these first nations people are upset that we want to expand the local golf course over their cemetery, but gently caress 'em! I'm a mayor, what are they going to do?"

[later]

"HELP, HELP, THE NATIVES ARE REVOLTING! SEND IN THE ARMY"

[a very long time and one damning, amazing documentary later that Siskel and Ebert put on their best movie lists that year]

"Right, natives suppressed. Now, expand the golf course over their cemetery."

[and later when drawing up Canada's new (1990s) gun laws, all the guns used by the first nations people were declared illegal at the start of the long list of prohibited guns, as if somebody had made a list of all of them and made a point of saying "and THAT one is prohibited, and THAT one is prohibited..."]

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Nebakenezzer posted:

Defense Watch Watch

So this is fortunately just dumb and embarrassing as opposed to nightmarish and awful.

So the Canadian military has been trying to get its feet wet with information warfare, and thus far has not exactly covered itself in honor. First it lied about wolves in Nova Scotia. Then it...conducted a surveillance operation on the black lives matter political movement. (This is one case where I can give the CF the benefit of the doubt; it could have been like those "plans" that war colleges do for practice, like the US invading Canada, IE an exercise where the target was as innocuous as possible. On the other hand, racism. Hell, considering PM Trudeau contributed some money, maybe the idea was to look for blackmail material (pardon the pun) to put the brakes on the fed ruining the Canadian officers rape and coverup club.)

But surprise, the CF didn't know that all of these things were illegal, though the illegality appears to be that "the pols didn't approve it." Which seems a mite convenient, considering another project they were working on was

Which is clearly something the DND would be all for what with people still not agreeing that all their procurement programs are fine and sex crime isn't a problem in the Canadian forces

I'd like to know more, where's that quoted from?

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet



Ultra Carp
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/nati...pandemic-report

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE


Nebakenezzer posted:

Ah yes, the Oka crisis - "these first nations people are upset that we want to expand the local golf course over their cemetery, but gently caress 'em! I'm a mayor, what are they going to do?"

[later]

"HELP, HELP, THE NATIVES ARE REVOLTING! SEND IN THE ARMY"

[a very long time and one damning, amazing documentary later that Siskel and Ebert put on their best movie lists that year]

"Right, natives suppressed. Now, expand the golf course over their cemetery."

[and later when drawing up Canada's new (1990s) gun laws, all the guns used by the first nations people were declared illegal at the start of the long list of prohibited guns, as if somebody had made a list of all of them and made a point of saying "and THAT one is prohibited, and THAT one is prohibited..."]

Canadian gun control has always been rooted in suppressing the ability of Indigenous people to protect their sovereignty and safety. I have suspicions that the policy documents that helped inform the most recent round will probably contain a lot of RCMP threat analysis detailing concerns about First Nations using .50 BMG and other large bore rifles to immobilize RCMP vehicles when next they invade a First Nation at the behest of an oil company and the feds do not want Canadians knowing how scared they are about the First Nations pushing back, or how invested they are in undermining them.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Fearless posted:

Canadian gun control has always been rooted in suppressing the ability of Indigenous people to protect their sovereignty and safety.

Pretty analogous to American gun control once you make the obvious substitutions.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Phanatic posted:

Pretty analogous to American gun control once you make the obvious substitutions.

And honestly, where I see gun control ultimately headed to in the US is a worse mirror of the German system. Multiple different types of paid licenses needed depending on the types of firearms owned that require hours of training at likely $100+ per hour from "accredited trainers" and taxes levied per weapon owned.

All of it ultimately resulting in one thing. Only people that look like the McCloskeys and have bank accounts similar to theirs in liquidity will be able to legally own firearms in this country. You know, like the Founders intended. :shepicide:

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

BIG HEADLINE posted:

You know, like the Founders intended. :shepicide:

That possible future is objectively closer to what the founders intended. The founders were pretty bad.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
https://www.rudaw.net/english/analysis/25062021

US air defense artillery systems back in the “shooting down air breathing threats” game.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

BIG HEADLINE posted:

And honestly, where I see gun control ultimately headed to in the US is a worse mirror of the German system. Multiple different types of paid licenses needed depending on the types of firearms owned that require hours of training at likely $100+ per hour from "accredited trainers" and taxes levied per weapon owned.

All of it ultimately resulting in one thing. Only people that look like the McCloskeys and have bank accounts similar to theirs in liquidity will be able to legally own firearms in this country. You know, like the Founders intended. :shepicide:

The 2nd amendment read in its entirety and as it was understood for 240 years is about empowering the states armed forces. It has nothing to do with individual rights. The government referred to is the federal government and the the people referred to is the states.

They use that convention elsewhere in the constitution and it’s not ambiguous.

In order to form state militias that are effective the federal government will not interfere in their laws about how and when they arm people.

Essentially the opposite of modern 2A reading by Scalia.

Since you can read state as ‘interests of wealthy white land owners’ the McClusky’s are exactly who the founders thought should be armed.

Murgos fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jun 25, 2021

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
Yeah, the founders directly intended slavery to be legal and for local governments to be able to develop very strong gun control laws, compared with those of today.

Saying “ah, but DDs were allowed back then and there were not magazine caps” is missing the forest for the trees. Entire classes of people were permitted to be forcibly disarmed, enslaved, etc, while protected elites could keep arms. And from town yo town, local laws could preempt firearm carry right out of existence.

Founders: they were very imperfect even back when they were in style, and their style was a pretty long time ago. Thankfully, they at least enshrined means of changing their laws within the laws.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

If you want to talk about gun control and whether it is a societal good or an ill, we have a thread specifically for that here in TFR.

If you want to talk about constitutional hair splitting and how various justices have come down on ideas like whether the 2A is a collective or an individual right, we have another thread for that kind of legal discussion.

If you want to talk about racism and how lovely it is we have yet another thread for that.

None of that is really cold war or airpower, so draw a line under this discussion and move on to a topic that is.

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender

Murgos posted:

Since you can read state as ‘interests of wealthy white land owners’ the McClusky’s are exactly who the founders thought should be armed.

I do feel that the necessity of being competent at arms and statesmanship among the early American elite, if brought forward and able to acclimate, would have still brought disapproval re: the McCluskys.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

mlmp08 posted:

https://www.rudaw.net/english/analysis/25062021

US air defense artillery systems back in the “shooting down air breathing threats” game.

Bring back the M45 quad mount.

I’ll also accept a dual-mount GAU-19.

:colbert:

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



MrYenko posted:

Bring back the M45 Bofors Mk.12 quad mount.

:colbert:

:catbert:

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
Sorry, already working on/with boring stuff like vulcan cannons and 30mm chainguns and missiles.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1408445741870292994?s=20

[Soviet anthem intensifies]

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

"What if The L O A F but bigger?"

Paddyo
Aug 3, 2007
Nuclear powered, intercontinental nuclear torpedos?

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Paddyo posted:

Nuclear powered, intercontinental nuclear torpedos?

Putin is really going for the whole “Bond villain” angle.

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender

priznat posted:

Putin is really going for the whole “Bond villain” angle.

They say an island with an airfield is an unsinkable carrier! Putin plans to challenge that.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



Paddyo posted:

Nuclear powered, intercontinental nuclear torpedos?

Believe me it's worthy of an effortpost but it's a bit complicated to make that post happen.

The tl/dr about the russian developments is 2½ fold;
1. there's nothing in physics stopping say a 10.000 megaton device from existing. It is however very hard to find a use case* or efficiency for anything larger than 10-ish megatons
2. When Ronnie Raygun pushed for SDI the Soviets started looking at a couple unusual programs that could maintain the deterrent potential in case ICBMs lost viability.
2½. 'Something' happened about 15 years ago that created new money for those old plans in Putin Russia. The something was Bush and new missile defence.


E. *one exception is if you want to explode NYC coming from underwater instead of from space like normal people

ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jun 28, 2021

Valtonen
May 13, 2014

Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.
It is hilarious that underwater a bus-sized weapon traveling mere 70 knots is impossible to intercept doomsday device.

It makes total SENSE, when you think about it, but considering the speeds utilized in ABM technology in-atmosphere its like the Austin powers golf cart-stuck-on-corridor of doomsday weapons.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
One can hope one goes accidentally critical and wipes out every one of their bomb engineers.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

BIG HEADLINE posted:

One can hope one goes accidentally critical and wipes out every one of their bomb engineers.

while dignitaries are visiting.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

You'd think you could slap a new guidance package on a Spearfish and get a decent intercept envelope.

ThisIsJohnWayne
Feb 23, 2007
Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!



Arglebargle III posted:

You'd think you could slap a new guidance package on a Spearfish and get a decent intercept envelope.

This is what we call an "arms race"

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Platystemon posted:

while dignitaries are visiting.

"I love the smell of vaporized Gopnik in the morning, smells like...too much Burberry cologne and burned Adidas."

(feel free to edit this if Gopnik is some no-no word, I'm having a lovely day and I really, *really* do not loving care)

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

BIG HEADLINE posted:

"I love the smell of vaporized Gopnik in the morning, smells like...too much Burberry cologne and burned Adidas."

(feel free to edit this if Gopnik is some no-no word, I'm having a lovely day and I really, *really* do not loving care)

ATTEMPT AT CHEER ENFORCEMENT:

Rockets and people is still in the Luna program. Looking up the entry on wikipedia, some nerd has worked out the launch success/failure rate of the US vs. Soviet moon program:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_programme

TL;DR both powers did about the same amount of launches, but the Soviet success rate was 34%, while the Americans managed a 60% success - and that is counting the Apollo program.

Just got through Luna 8's failure; like the last probe, it got as far as the landing process before it failed. The failure was caused by poor QC. Some worker had not followed procedure, using raw fabric instead of the cured and pressed fabric they were supposed to use when creating fibreglass. As a result, the shock absorber mounts for the inflatable rubber shock absorbers were brittle, broke into shards, and punctured the shock absorbers when they inflated, and the escaping gas, like some sort of cartoon, destabilized the probe, it lost the earth fix, it's decent motor shut down, and it went floomph into the moon's surface.

I'm not quite sure what the problem is, but the Soviets, after their huge lead in space, manage to loose it over the 1960s. Part of this was political pressure and haste. Part of it, too, was that the lessons of quality control learned in the 1950s doesn't seem to have been enforced once former engineers under Korolev split off to form their own subcontractors. And of course good ol' fashioned QC fuckups, which happened to the American program too, but seem to keep happening to the Soviets.

e: while the N-1 hasn't really been covered yet, a major problem is that the four top rocket men, Korolev, Glushko, (the engine boss) and Yangel and the other guy, all hated each other and could scarcely work together. The problem is bad enough that people beneath them, (guys like Boris Chertok) are attempting to form a conspiracy to get stuff done on the N-1.

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jun 29, 2021

McNally
Sep 13, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Do you like muskets?

Nebakenezzer posted:

I'm not quite sure what the problem is, but the Soviets, after their huge lead in space, manage to loose it over the 1960s. Part of this was political pressure and haste. Part of it, too, was that the lessons of quality control learned in the 1950s doesn't seem to have been enforced once former engineers under Korolev split off to form their own subcontractors. And of course good ol' fashioned QC fuckups, which happened to the American program too, but seem to keep happening to the Soviets.

There's a number of reasons, to include the lack of support that NASA enjoyed. Add the fact that all the competing design bureaus were operating out of the same pot of money (resulting in competing prototypes fighting for money from the same budget) and you ended up with scarcely better than a completely dysfunctional mess.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

This has a very Roman Empire feel:

https://twitter.com/kadiagoba/status/1409886664969838597

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion



Oh, boy, that's not the best part.

This is the best part: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/29/willis-johnson-us-mexico-border-497080.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
Overt Neo-Feudalism, coming soon to a former democracy near you.

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Infidelicious
Apr 9, 2013

I'd be loving Livid if I was in a Guard unit being used like this.

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