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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





Welcome to the Island of Misfit Toys Racing Series

This is the Misc. Racing Thread, home for discussion of all kinds of racing that aren't Formula 1, IndyCar, or NASCAR. Feel free to post about sports car racing, touring cars, rallying, off-road racing, motocross, and anything else you can think of. So much good racing is available to watch (especially online officially) that we can share and discuss while enjoying speedy race cars.



So what kind of racing are you talking about here, then?

We talk a lot about sports-car racing. Itís the racing, primarily on road and street courses, of cars which come closest in design and spirit to street cars. After the big And at the top of sports cars are whatís called prototypes -- single-seat racers with closed tops and fenders. The Grand Prix cars of long-distance racing.

Why should I care about sports car racing?

Thereís a wide variety -- of cars, drivers, locations, and of race distances. Itís where your favorites from Formula 1, IndyCar and NASCAR past will wind up. Races are often long (6-, 12- and 24-hour races are not uncommon), and feature multiple classes of car racing on the same track but in individual class battles alongside the overall win. The world of sports car racing tends to be friendlier and more approachable than other parts, while still attracting many colorful characters.

Okay. So what's new for 2020?
There have been a few changes to our favorite series following on from the end of the 2019 season and since this time last year. Trying to recount some of the news as follows:



  • Ford was close to joining as a factory prototype DPi team, or to staying with their Ford GT in GTLM/GTE classes for 2020, but wound up doing neither. So there will likely be no Fords racing in IMSA or at Le Mans this year.
  • BMW decided they weren't getting the return out of the WEC they wanted, and stepped back from the world championship. Rahal still is running the M8 in IMSA.
  • The lightly-funded Nissan DPi has retired from IMSA competition. It would take far too long to get that thing competitive, so IMSA is down to three manufacturer teams: Acura, Cadillac, and Mazda.
  • The 2019-2020 WEC season has already kicked off, running rounds at Silverstone, Fuji, Shanghai and Bahrain in the fall/early winter. It's actually competitive at the top this season! ...thanks to heavy restrictions on the Toyotas
  • There's still tons of political rumor-mongering going on in the background about convergence of rules, both for prototypes and -- sometimes even -- for GT racers at the highest level.

So, what are the series I should know?



The FIA World Endurance Championship is the highest level of sports-car racing. Itís an FIA World Championship, same as Formula 1 and the World Rally Championship, which means a lot. The WEC schedule includes the 24 Hours of Le Mans, which means almost as much, if not more, as Le Mans remains a hugely popular event and a major marketing point for all these big manufacturers. The WEC features LMP1 cars, LMP2 cars, and two GT classes, and is pretty fun to watch. Its season starts in the late summer and runs across winter, ending at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in mid-June. So we're in the middle of the 2019-20 season now, and there is plenty to look forward to for the 2020-21 season as well!



Below the WEC are various regional series using much the same cars and classes, the highest profile of which is IMSA in the United States. Its a US and Canadian-based series, but many teams and drivers will also compete at Le Mans on an annual basis. IMSA also has a number of high-profile races: endurance epics include the 24 Hours of Daytona in January, the Sebring 12 Hours in March, and Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in October, plus marquee shorter races at Long Beach, Road America, and more. Other regional series which are directly under the ACO (who co-organize the WEC along with the FIA) include the European Le Mans Series, and Asian Le Mans Series, which both act as feeders of a sort to the World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans. There's no direct relegation/promotion, but teams gain experience in the regional series and sometimes step up to the WEC; also, all of IMSA, Asian Le Mans and European Le Mans all receive invites to the 24 Hours of Le Mans annually.



But there are other series in this sports car world! Many of them fall under a sports car rulebook called GT3. These are cars made by big companies (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Audi) which are sold to customers. GT3 cars are expected to be balanced to achieve a similar level of performance -- in theory, a driver could take each of those cars around a track and get roughly the same lap time.

This has led to a boom in series aimed to customers, as the cars are relatively affordable, well-built, fairly easy to drive (especially compared to customer cars from the 1970s and Ď80s) and eligible to race in a lot of exciting events. The 24 Hours races at Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium and the Nurburgring in Germany are highlights for GT3-type racing worldwide.

Great! So how/when do I watch?

First, you need to know when a race is! Custard Undies recommended this link to Motorsport.com's schedule for racing series. Use it, learn it, love it.

Because the sports-car world is so diverse, thereís a lot to watch. Happily, much of it is readily available online or even via YouTube.

  • WEC: It has a streaming app/website for live events, and a YouTube channel for replays. Note: Included as part of MotorTrend's streaming app in the U.S.
  • Also for the WEC/Le Mans: MotorTrend on Demand has a special going where it's $12 for the first year of ads-included streaming or $24 for a year of free of ads: https://www.motortrendondemand.com/holiday19 It's "for new subscribers only," but you can just use a different email and it should work. They stream Dakar, WEC, Isle of Man, and a bunch of other stuff for US viewers. You can cancel after signing up (to make sure your sub does not renew at the regular price) and will retain access until your sub expires.
  • 24 Hours of Le Mans: Part of the above WEC package, but also has plenty of coverage for free via YouTube and other partner streams
  • IMSA: For live coverage, from 2019 IMSA is partnering with NBC in the U.S., will have live coverage on various NBC channels, and IMSA Radio is always free and excellent. They've now added an IMSA-specific NBC Gold package for US coverage as well, while coverage outside the U.S. will depend on the market. Also check out the YouTube channel afterwards. Outside of the U.S.? IMSA TV provides free coverage using the IMSA Radio audio. This also includes the lower-level series that IMSA also has, including the Michelin Pilot Challenge, Lamborghini Supertrofeo, Prototype Challenge, etc.
  • European and Asian Le Mans Series: These both stream free, AsLMS via YouTube.
  • Blancpain GT Series: Online via YouTube
  • Super GT: Nissan's coverage stopped after 2018, and the 2019 season was partially broadcast by MotorsportTV online. TBD for 2020.
  • Other events: Most all of these have some free streaming component, which we put in the thread as they come up.

Recommended Links/Follows

  • Racer -- racer.com -- Good coverage of American racing
  • Daily Sports Car -- dailysportscar.com -- Great coverage of all sports car series

Other questions? Reach out and ask! Recommendations? Please suggest and we'll try to add them in.

Come join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/kg3d2Uu

Misc Threads of the Past
Misc Racing Thread 2019: I woke up to a smoking hulk
Misc Auto Racing 2018: Mazda gonna Mazda
Misc Auto Racing 2017: gently caress off Whincup
Misc Auto Racing 2016 : Downgraded From Silver Posters to Bronze
Misc Auto Racing 2015: At least our criminals are non-violent
Misc Auto Racing 2014: So long and thanks for all the McNish
Misc Auto Racing 2013: Beware: Ferrari Ahead
Misc. Auto Racing 2012: No War But Class War
Sportscars 2011: Racing with Class (ILMC/ALMS/GrandAm)
2011 Daytona 24 Hours
2010 Daytona 24 Hours

harperdc fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jan 19, 2020

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



Other Wonderful Misfit Series of Note

Sports car racing is a lot, but it's not all of what we cover/discuss in here. Here are some primers for other big series that fall under our umbrella.

Formula E



Now in it's sixth! season, Formula E is gaining strength and a character from its unorthodox setup and choices.

Founded as a way to promote battery-electric technology, Formula E takes a lot about a traditional Formula 1/motorsport racing weekend and turns it on its head. The usual three-day (Friday/Saturday/Sunday) schedule is compacted into one day; the races take place all in city centers, as opposed to traditional racing circuits; the racing has improved, and is very different with the addition of things like Attack Mode; and now that cars last the entire race on a battery charge, it's leading to very hard-hitting racing.

But this year is notable for one reason: two major factories jumping in. Joining Nissan, DS, Jaguar, Audi and BMW are Mercedes-Benz, officially joining after having a semi-supported team last year, while Porsche has finished its year testing and is throwing its resources at its first open-wheel challenge since they tried to run in IndyCar.

How to Watch Formula E in Your Location

Note that all the races will go up later on the Formula E YouTube channel.

    2019-20 Formula E Schedule:
  • Saudi Arabia (two rounds) - November 22-23
  • Chile - January 18
  • Mexico - February 15
  • Morocco - February 29
  • China - March 21
  • Italy - April 4
  • France - April 18
  • South Korea - May 3
  • Indonesia - June 6
  • Germany - June 21
  • United States - July 11
  • Great Britain (two rounds) - July 25-26

Super GT



A favorite of hardcore racing fans, Japan's premier series is still going strong. A sports car series utilizing two classes -- the big-power GT500 cars, and the smaller and more pro-am GT300 -- Super GT is known for hard racing, excellent engineering, and an actual tire war between multiple brands who are free to develop their products. The GT500 cars are now aligned with the German DTM series, which culminated in last November's first "Dream Race" event featuring five manufacturers. The three major Japanese factories support the GT500 teams, and for this year, the Toyota teams are moving to a new model: The GR Supra.

GT300 has traditionally been a pro-am class, and in the last decade has seen a number of teams import and use international-spec GT3 cars to great effect. There are still a few Japan-only one-offs, including Subaru's factory-supported BRZ, and now the Saitama Toyopet dealer team is developing a Supra of its own for GT300. Bonkers.

Last year the international broadcast was a bit of a mixed bag, not taking effect until a few rounds into the season. Once there's news I'll update it here.

Super GT 2020 Schedule
  • Okayama - April 12
  • Fuji Speedway - May 3
  • Suzuka Circuit - May 31
  • Chang International Circuit (Thailand) - July 5
  • Sepang International Circuit (Malaysia) - July 18
  • Sportsland Sugo - September 13
  • Autopolis - October 25
  • Twin Ring Motegi - November 8

World Rally Championship



Someone not named Sťbastien won the WRC for the first time in 15 years!

(That is a true statement from forums user Jehde, who provided the calendar and broadcast details below as well. Thank you!)

The WRC is a series still on the rise. A new generation of awesome cars and extremely talented drivers are on the way up, Ott Tanak is a star and has moved to the team that wants it the most this year (Hyundai). Toyota and Ford also have factory teams still in the championship, while Citroen took their ball and went home. Kenya, Japan ,and New Zealand return this year.

  • 1. Monte-Carlo: 23 - 26 January
  • 2. Sweden: 13 - 16 February
  • 3. Mexico: 12 - 15 March
  • 4. Chile: 16 - 19 April
  • 5. Argentina: 30 April - 3 May
  • 6. Portugal: 21 - 24 May
  • 7. Italy: 4 - 7 June
  • 8. Kenya: 16 - 19 July
  • 9. Finland: 6 - 9 August
  • 10. New Zealand: 3 - 6 September
  • 11. Turkey: 24 - 27 September
  • 12. Germany: 15 - 18 October
  • 13. Great Britain: 29 October - 1 November
  • 14. Japan: 19 - 22 November

You can subscribe to a fancy live service with a bunch of features at WRC+, or you can just watch the daily recap videos for rallies for free on RedBull TV.

harperdc fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jan 18, 2020

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
WHY DOES EVERYONE IN AUTOMOTIVE INSANITY HATE ME? READ ABOUT IT NOW AT HTTPS://ARSCLOWN.COM/GITHEAD/10 REASONS WHY I AM A PRETENTIOUS TWAT

Itís a little self-serving but over at Ars Technica I write about IMSA and Formula E.

IMSA 2020 season preview: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...season-preview/

Thereíll be some Rolex 24 coverage after that next weekend too.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

poo poo i missed the podium

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Someone not named Sťbastien won the WRC for the first time in 15 years!

1. Monte-Carlo: 23 - 26 January
2. Sweden: 13 - 16 February
3. Mexico: 12 - 15 March
4. Chile: 16 - 19 April
5. Argentina: 30 April - 3 May
6. Portugal: 21 - 24 May
7. Italy: 4 - 7 June
8. Kenya: 16 - 19 July
9. Finland: 6 - 9 August
10. New Zealand: 3 - 6 September
11. Turkey: 24 - 27 September
12. Germany: 15 - 18 October
13. Great Britain: 29 October - 1 November
14. Japan: 19 - 22 November

Safari rally, Japan, and New Zealand return this year. Also doesn't look like CitroŽn is fielding any cars this season, just Hyundai, Ford, and Toyota.

You can subscribe to a fancy live service with a bunch of features at WRC+, or you can just watch the daily recap videos for rallies for free on RedBull TV.

Monte Carlo starts a week from now!

Jehde fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 18, 2020

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





whens lemans

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007




Mid-June, as always.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





harperdc posted:

Mid-June, as always.

(shakes you) WHEN IS IT

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



Peanut President posted:

(shakes you) WHEN IS IT

June 13-14, 2020

CactusWeasle
Aug 1, 2006
It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

Peanut President posted:

(shakes you) WHEN IS IT

LeMans is inside of us

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012


Upset Trowel

Fix the thread tag

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

WATCH MORE SUPERCROSS





No, seriously. You should watch Supercross. It's rather good. It's got thrills & spills (lots of spills), full-contact passing, unpredictable racing, manufacturer parity (and color coding!), and a decently competitive championship.

Just last year had two of the closest finishes in Supercross history, as well as several more last-lap and last-corner passes for the win in both the 450 main class and the 250 support classes. Here was one where the winner overcame a 13 second gap to steal it at the line for the closest finish ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbxhLJAQan4

Supercross is both the AMA and FIM championships for the discipline, so you've literally got the best riders in the world doing this every week. It's unique in that the track layout is different every time the circuit comes to a venue or returns to the same venue, either a baseball stadium or a football stadium, so track knowledge can only be built up in one day. The season runs from January to May before switching to the outdoor Motocross season for the summer. (Pro Motocross is OK but not as good as Supercross!) There are two bike classes (450cc and 250cc) split up into three divisions (450SX, 250SX West, 250SX East), with every race day featuring the 450 class and one of the two regional 250 classes.

Many, many bikes participate in qualifying practice, but only the top 40 bikes qualify for the night program (what you see on TV) with the heat races and LCQs. From those, the top 22 make it to the main event. Some 450 events are Triple Crown races that have a special 3-heat overall format, and some 250 events are crossover races where both regions compete with and against each other. If that sounds confusing, the easy way to put it is that there's a lot of variety in the competition!

The racing really is unpredictable. You could get a 10+ second butt-kicking win by the leader, but you could also see the leader blow a 10-second lead by self-crashing in a corner or on a jump. The track degrades through a race and through the race night overall, so riders really have to stay on their toes just to stay upright, let alone go bar-to-bar with one another. Aggressive block passing is allowed and expected, and revenge re-passing is totally a thing that happens and is very entertaining when it doesn't go well!

Right now is a very good time to jump in to Supercross. Many of the sport's top names and long-time champions in the 450 class have retired through the 2010's, leaving a lot of younger veterans and up-and-comers from the 250 class all competing to make a name for themselves. From 2010 to 2017 only two riders won the championship. In the last two years there have been two different champions, and 5 or 6 others that could legitimately compete for it. Without a currently-dominating rider, and with at least three of the five manufacturers good for several race wins through the season, I have absolutely no idea how this season is going to play out. Which makes it exciting to watch!

The full season of races are shown live on NBCSN on Saturday nights.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



minor quibble but can each instance of "under" be replaced with "below" ? It currently makes it sound like these other series are affiliated junior series of WEC.

quote:

Under the WEC are various regional series, the highest profile of which is IMSA in the United States. Its a US and Canadian-based series, but many teams and drivers will also compete at Le Mans on an annual basis. IMSA also has a number of high-profile races: endurance epics include the 24 Hours of Daytona in January, the Sebring 12 Hours in March, and Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in October, plus marquee shorter races at Long Beach, Road America, and more. Other regional series under the WEC include the European Le Mans Series, and Asian Le Mans Series, which both act as feeders to the World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans.


also this post got passed over in the old thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...5#post501389584

https://www.motortrendondemand.com/holiday19

$12 for the first year with ads / $24 without ads for Motor Trend on Demand which gives you WEC among other things


Iospace pls add that guys post to the OP tia

Basticle fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 18, 2020

iospace
Jan 19, 2038




Fun Shoe

orange juche posted:

Fix the thread tag

done

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



Basticle posted:

minor quibble but can each instance of "under" be replaced with "below" ? It currently makes it sound like these other series are affiliated junior series of WEC.

for IMSA that's not the case, but the ELMS and AsLMS are literally organized by the ACO so yes, they're affiliated series. I've updated the wording -- they don't have direct promotion and relegation, but it's the place where teams get experience.

Basticle posted:

also this post got passed over in the old thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...5#post501389584

https://www.motortrendondemand.com/holiday19

$12 for the first year with ads / $24 without ads for Motor Trend on Demand which gives you WEC among other things

I mentioned Motor Trend On Demand for US customers! But forgot the deal. It's been added.

(it's still criminal you can't just get the WEC App/subscription in the U.S., it remains a good deal)

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



FWIW the WEC app has had lots of technical problems in years past

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


harperdc posted:

(it's still criminal you can't just get the WEC App/subscription in the U.S., it remains a good deal)

I had no problems getting a subscription in the US this year?

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Acura, Mazda, Cadillac in first practice, although some cars didn't go out due to the bad conditions.

https://racer.com/2020/01/23/montoy...ex-24-practice/

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



And then there were 37... gettin bleak. Hey at least the protos will complain about traffic less?

https://twitter.com/RACERmag/status/1220410524581728258

Electrophotonic
Mar 14, 2010

They're gonna stop
Saturday night
So you better have fun now
I PREDICT



Oh dear, M-Sport Fiestas in the WRC are getting their asses kicked by leaves. At least two of their cars are down around 20 secs after the first stage due to cooling issues.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



hold on to ur butts

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

Weird that the ACO would call a press conference to say IMSA are smelly Americans and they'd never dream of letting their Yankee prototypes into Le Mans.

hunnert car pileup
Oct 28, 2007

the first world was a mistake



nope not getting my hopes up

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





njsykora posted:

Weird that the ACO would call a press conference to say IMSA are smelly Americans and they'd never dream of letting their Yankee prototypes into Le Mans.

is that weird

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008

all my friends are pieces of shit

Itís only weird if itís somehow not delivered by John Cleese in a hauberk from atop a castle wall

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


I mean it's weird that they'd say it to IMSA's face.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

IMSA DPI 2.0s will be eligible to run alongside ACO Hypercars starting in 2022.

https://twitter.com/sportscar365/st...438822850301953

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!




We have to wait two whole years for the obviously superior DPI class to sweep Le Mans? Booooooooo.

your friend wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.



Do you think the ACO will admit they couldn't get enough interest in the hypercar regs or just let that be subtext?

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Big Huski Boi posted:

Do you think the ACO will admit they couldn't get enough interest in the hypercar regs or just let that be subtext?

I expect them to admit no defeat what so ever, only let DPis run with Hypercars at LeMans and not the rest of the WEC season, and then BoP the gently caress out of them to ensure they never come close to Toyota or Peugeot come raceday

But im cynical, so we will see!!

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008

all my friends are pieces of shit

Ollie Jarvis on the pole for the Rolex 24 again. Itís unreal how good he is. Heís only gotten better since his Audi LMP1 days

net work error
Feb 26, 2011



Daytona practice isn't streamed right? I don't see it on the stream schedule on the IMSA site.

Frond
Mar 12, 2018


Good work Mazda.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


net work error posted:

Daytona practice isn't streamed right? I don't see it on the stream schedule on the IMSA site.

No, just quali and race. You can get radio feed from IMSA or Radio Le Mans

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



WindyMan posted:

IMSA DPI 2.0s will be eligible to run alongside ACO Hypercars starting in 2022.

https://twitter.com/sportscar365/st...438822850301953

Ooooh I missed this somehow in my sweep of the news this morning. Will be very interesting to see what the fine details will be.

Also frustrating that this is the one race this year put on a cable channel in Japan, thus keeping the IMSA TV feed blocked out. Boo.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
WHY DOES EVERYONE IN AUTOMOTIVE INSANITY HATE ME? READ ABOUT IT NOW AT HTTPS://ARSCLOWN.COM/GITHEAD/10 REASONS WHY I AM A PRETENTIOUS TWAT

So, yet again Dagys broke an embargo. I congratulated John Doonan on the ACO announcement (because Iíve spent all day on a car and only saw the sportscar365 tweet) and got a quizzical stare and a ďthe announcement isnít until tomorrowĒ in reply.

Itís a wonder they let me in the door.

Anyone have any burning questions for Acura/Penske/MSR? I can ask them tomorrow.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



drgitlin posted:

So, yet again Dagys broke an embargo.

Iím not sure itís polite to cackle in Tokyo trains so I didnít, but reading this I absolutely wanted to. Yikes. And itís not like sports car racing reporting isnít a small world or anything...

As for Acura/RP: Would they ever consider a third car for any of the endurance races? Factories used to run four or even five cars for Daytona/Sebring/Le Mans back in the day, but besides adding extra drivers, none of the factories do that. I know the costs are extra these days, but they certainly have the stable of drivers (between Penske and Honda) and both Daytona and Petit are at a time when drivers are available.

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008

all my friends are pieces of shit

drgitlin posted:

Anyone have any burning questions for Acura/Penske/MSR? I can ask them tomorrow.
I would genuinely like to know if ATP did anything to address rear tire wear on the ARX05 in the offseason. But Iím not sure I trust them to give an honest answer to anything performance-related at this point

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



Rally Monte Carlo spoiler:

Holy loving poo poo, Tanak had a massive off. Sounds like everyoneís safe.

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Frond
Mar 12, 2018


Aston pulled out of DTM. The grid has 14 cars now.

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