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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



GT3 is about to have a big crash, unfortunately. you will be shocked to know that the FIA let the homologation spec break down due to manufacturer pressure and money, and now only the latest factory cars with big budgets (that have ballooned into the millions per car) stand a chance

stop me if youve heard this before

to be fair, i think this the longest a single spec has lasted before the inevitable corruption balloon that i can remember

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Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





MazeOfTzeentch posted:

If Kyalami could bump up their FIA grade to 1, it'd be pretty rad for F1.

Also honestly if we could get a track on the F1 calendar with no changes, I'd love to see Sebring. It would be such a unique challenge for the F1 cars compared to any other circuit, and P1s have already ran there no problem. Mostly I wanna see Ferrari's suspension implode over the bumps in T17

sebring would shake f1 cars to pieces though I agree it would rule

edit: the worst goddamn thing about Sebring is NASCAR owns it but doesn't run there

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



Cygni posted:

GT3 is about to have a big crash, unfortunately. you will be shocked to know that the FIA let the homologation spec break down due to manufacturer pressure and money, and now only the latest factory cars with big budgets (that have ballooned into the millions per car) stand a chance

FIA doesnít own the GT3 spec though, the SRO does. And all of the rumors are that GTE is going away (with factories looking to be encouraged up to prototypes) so some next-gen of GT3 looking to replace it for customers in ACO rules series.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



harperdc posted:

FIA doesnít own the GT3 spec though, the SRO does. And all of the rumors are that GTE is going away (with factories looking to be encouraged up to prototypes) so some next-gen of GT3 looking to replace it for customers in ACO rules series.

Im pretty sure the FIA handles the actual homologation process and control for GT3 for like 95% series that use it? I might be wrong. I know IMSA doesnt use the pure GT3 rule book, for example, but i think most people do.

The speed creep when you look at the life of GT3 is pretty crazy when you consider this is a class that is supposed to be pegged to an identical lap time. When you look at the huge chunks of time they have taken out of places like Bathurst (yes i know there was a partial repave), its clear that the spec got inflated and out of hand. The fastest race lap at Bathurst during the life of GT3 has chopped 6 fuckin seconds off a 2 minute lap. Yes, tires and such, but cmon. Shits broken. The entire point of the spec was that every car would be perfectly performance balanced forever, but that clearly is no longer the case. Thanks FIA (or SRO or whoever).

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

I don't understand, it's crazy popular everywhere and yet somehow dying?

Gte I get with at most 8 factory entries in the entire world, but gt3 is popular everywhere?

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

GT3 is the new GTE

GT4 is the new GT3

And bring back GT1!

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Upset Trowel

WindyMan posted:

And bring back GT1!

it still has to have room for a suitcase in the "trunk"

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Imagine GT3 still doing similar laptimes to the current 911 GT3 Cup car

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Imagine GT3 still doing similar laptimes to the current 911 GT3 Cup car

Porsche wishes their GT3 could do that.

Space Butler
Dec 3, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

algebra testes posted:

Its also part of the business but I never understood why track revitalization was never a thing. Isn't f1 a better series if you spend the money to make say, Imola fit for F1 instead of holding a race in some petro-state?

And yeah that means spending f1 money on someone else's asset but c'mon.

They did that already. https://www.crash.net/f1/news/93843...wards-f1-return


What does grade one even mean anyway?

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Upset Trowel

Space Butler posted:

They did that already. https://www.crash.net/f1/news/93843...wards-f1-return


What does grade one even mean anyway?

Grade 1 means you were already at the level of safety (and the aforementioned fast sweeping curve to show off aero and a couple straights long enough to allow an F1 car to hit 190mph+ with DRS) required to host F1, but have also paid the requisite amount of cash to F1 to get them to come to your track. It's like an obscene amount of money that you have to fork over to F1 on top of having to potentially seriously redesign your track to accommodate F1 if you're a track seeking new certification as Grade 1.

Imola didn't need to redesign the track as they've hosted F1 in the recent past, they just hadn't paid enough money into the F1 moneypool.

There's a good rundown of the stuff on a reddit post which basically says there are certain requirements for pit and paddock size, spectator accomodation, race control setup, etc. However, with the right amount of money, all of the above can be ignored.

https://www.fia.com/file/75979/download/12827

TW: This is a PDF file so yeah download it if you want, or not, but it's the requirements* for track certification, but as before, money solves many issues with your track not meeting spec.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 22, 2020

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



algebra testes posted:

I don't understand, it's crazy popular everywhere and yet somehow dying?

Gte I get with at most 8 factory entries in the entire world, but gt3 is popular everywhere?

Car counts have been dropping in the pro and pro-am series for the last few years, mostly due to cost creep driven by the BOP issues. They are trying to appease two primary groups with one platform: manufacturers and rich guys, and mixing those groups which often have diametrically opposed desires nearly always ends with one overpowering the other and the formula going tits up.

When GT3 started, you could buy a car for ~$300k that was guaranteed (at the time) to be speed balanced to even the biggest factory program. Rich guys happy! But manufacturers sad. So manufacturers start putting pressure on.

Now, its easily a million+ for a competitive car, IF the manufacturer even CHOOSES to BLESS you with their car, and many won't even let you actually own the car... a lot of them require you to lease the engine or have mandatory "support packages" which essentially means a guy with the factory takes the ECU after every race so you cant turn the car on. Which means you dont really own the car and have to do what he factory wants, including racing only in series the factory has political interest in and not not actually competing with the factory when they themselves want to show up. Manufacturers happy! But rich guys sad.

GT3 is gonna stay popular for a long time (especially with full Am series), but it seems to be on the decline. GT4 and TCR are getting a lot of attention lately for the exact same reasons (and price point) that fueled GT3 early on.

Cygni fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 22, 2020

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

orange juche posted:

TW: This is a PDF file so yeah download it if you want, or not, but it's the requirements* for track certification, but as before, money solves many issues with your track not meeting spec.

The prime example of this is Monaco, that absolutely doesn't meet modern F1 safety requirements or spectator and pitlane standards, but it's Monaco so they just shove a pile of cash at the FIA and also know full well all the 'traditional' fans who enjoy watching poo poo races at that godforsaken track would lose their poo poo if they ever hinted at dropping it.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Upset Trowel

njsykora posted:

The prime example of this is Monaco, that absolutely doesn't meet modern F1 safety requirements or spectator and pitlane standards, but it's Monaco so they just shove a pile of cash at the FIA and also know full well all the 'traditional' fans who enjoy watching poo poo races at that godforsaken track would lose their poo poo if they ever hinted at dropping it.

Isn't Monaco like the only city streets track on F1? Yeah it's completely nuts how they somehow continue to allow Monaco to be on the schedule. I'm sure they'll never change it because "history".

orange juche fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 23, 2020

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



orange juche posted:

Isn't Monaco like the only city streets track on F1? Yeah it's completely nuts how they somehow continue to allow Monaco to be on the schedule. I'm sure they'll never change it because "history".

Singapore is also a street circuit, Baku as well, and Sochi at a push. But none are as short or narrow as Monaco.

Also outside of Le Mans and Sebring, all of the circuits used by the WEC are currently Grade 1. If Kyalami is added in the future, Iím sure thatíll just be a bank deposit away (Kyalami is owned by Porsche South Africa now if memory serves).

dsriggs
May 28, 2012

MONEY FALLS...

...FROM THE SKY...

...WHENEVER HE POSTS!


Technically Albert Park too.

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014

All torment, trouble, wonder and amazement
Inhabits here: some heavenly power guide us
Out of this fearful country!





Aren't there parts of Spa that are technically roads too?

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty



Cygni posted:

GT3 is gonna stay popular for a long time (especially with full Am series), but it seems to be on the decline. GT4 and TCR are getting a lot of attention lately for the exact same reasons (and price point) that fueled GT3 early on.

And even then World TCR immediately turned into *nod nod wink wink* we're not a manufacturer team honest.

Then said manufacturers pulled out and it turns out that "SLR VW Motorsport" and "Audi Sport Team Leopard" had something to do with manufacturers.

So now the series that was turning away entrants a couple of years back to cap the grid at 30 currently has half that many entrants. And 8 of those 15 are still manufacturer entries that could be pulled at any second.

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty



Spaced God posted:

Aren't there parts of Spa that are technically roads too?

I *think* the modern circuit cut those bits out.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Dudley posted:

I *think* the modern circuit cut those bits out.

Les Combs to Stavelot is "circuit" the rest being former public roads that you used to be able to drive on until like 2003 where they just turned it into a "permanent" circuit and stopped all traffic on.

jammyozzy
Dec 7, 2006

Is that a challenge?

Yeah modern Spa is all dedicated race track now, the last bits of public road got diverted around it in I want to say the late 90s? That's the last time I remember the hill down from La Source having road markings on it.

*E* Beaten.

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

I want to be one of
those madmen


dsriggs posted:

Technically Albert Park too.

Montreal as well

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





can't believe how badly orange juche got loving owned

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


Dudley posted:

And even then World TCR immediately turned into *nod nod wink wink* we're not a manufacturer team honest.

Then said manufacturers pulled out and it turns out that "SLR VW Motorsport" and "Audi Sport Team Leopard" had something to do with manufacturers.

So now the series that was turning away entrants a couple of years back to cap the grid at 30 currently has half that many entrants. And 8 of those 15 are still manufacturer entries that could be pulled at any second.

it's almost like performance-balanced series should just use spec cars and not try to constantly balance a bunch of different models


BTCC is probably one of the more successful ones and even they had dumb poo poo like those years where a team would win nothing in the first half of the year and get BOPed into the best team on the grid in the second half, which never doesn't feel artificial.

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

I want to be one of
those madmen


Counterpoint: BTCC sucks now and has for 20 years

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


performance balancing is garbage

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

Proud Christian Mom posted:

performance balancing is garbage

I too enjoy F1.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Upset Trowel

Peanut President posted:

can't believe how badly orange juche got loving owned

monaco is still a trash fire circuit

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty



Feels Villeneuve posted:

BTCC is probably one of the more successful ones and even they had dumb poo poo like those years where a team would win nothing in the first half of the year and get BOPed into the best team on the grid in the second half, which never doesn't feel artificial.

And even that's because underneath a large part of the BTCC cars ARE spec. The older Civic, Corolla, Audi, Infiniti, Hyundai, VWs and the Mercs are all using the exact same engine for instance.

And even then they've got success ballast, which is at least better than mad BoP.

CactusWeasle
Aug 1, 2006
It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

46 cars for GT World Challenge at Imola this weekend, which isnt bad.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

A classic Can Am car flipped at Road America, Merc-at-Lemans style. It was tailing another car as it was cresting the hill, and wooosh.

Can barely see it at the end of the first video. Second video has a better view of the flip from the bridge.

https://twitter.com/joshbilicki/sta...190697775423488

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.


BTCC is back and is still being BTCC.

First race analysis: Looks like a Sutton, Turk and Cammish three way title fight. Looks like they've managed to finally build a decent NGTC Ford Focus but is Rory Butcher or Ollie Jackson really good enough to get the most out of it? Andy Neate is also driving one if you squint really hard at the back end of the grid.

jammyozzy
Dec 7, 2006

Is that a challenge?

Nobody could have possibly seen this coming...

https://twitter.com/FIAWEC/status/1...0508234752?s=19

It's a shame but totally the right call I think, there was no way to run it safely even with the spectator villages idea.

track day bro!
Feb 17, 2005



Grimey Drawer

jammyozzy posted:

Nobody could have possibly seen this coming...

https://twitter.com/FIAWEC/status/1...0508234752?s=19

It's a shame but totally the right call I think, there was no way to run it safely even with the spectator villages idea.

man i swear it was only like a couple of weeks ago that radio lemans were talking about travel plans, gotta suck for the people who booked

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014

All torment, trouble, wonder and amazement
Inhabits here: some heavenly power guide us
Out of this fearful country!





The ELMS at spa yesterday was good. That's my review of it

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



track day bro! posted:

man i swear it was only like a couple of weeks ago that radio lemans were talking about travel plans, gotta suck for the people who booked

It was, when the race had announced they were trying to have 5,000 capacity ďvillagesĒ around the circuit.

But even then that hadnít been rubber-stamped by the French government, and well, we see what happens.

Probably the best result, now they can pay out refunds for all those impacted and get on with the race.

spaceblancmange
Apr 19, 2018



Spaced God posted:

The ELMS at spa yesterday was good. That's my review of it

I caught the last 90 minutes and yeah!

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Plus 1 to ELMS being dope. Also streaming free on YouTube with RLM commentary is great.

For WEC do I need to buy their video package, mute it and stream RLM over the top still?

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007



algebra testes posted:

Plus 1 to ELMS being dope. Also streaming free on YouTube with RLM commentary is great.

For WEC do I need to buy their video package, mute it and stream RLM over the top still?

RLM isn't doing the official comms for WEC but the official team includes Graham Goodwin and Allan McNish, so I'm perfectly happy with that. I don't know what the streaming price is for this last three rounds of the season but it's still a good deal because it'd include Le Mans. The graphics aren't great but livable this year, too.

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MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Martin Haven, Allan MacNish and GG is a pretty solid commentator crew and I just watch the world feed audio, particularly because Hindy's calls have dropped in quality of late, he often gets cars wrong entirely and seems to operate on a constant 5 second delay even when he's trackside.

If the WEC world feed could get some better pit reporters, they'd be golden.

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