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porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


Kurzon posted:

The duel felt so cliché. Paul runs into some Injuns in the desert, they think he's a pussy, so to earn their respect he must beat one of them in a duel.

Someone here pointed out that Dune plays like a Young Adult novel and...it's kinda true.

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Kurzon
May 10, 2013


porfiria posted:

Someone here pointed out that Dune plays like a Young Adult novel and...it's kinda true.
It reminds me of those old novels where a white guy joins some tribe of natives and then masters their skills in record time and they are so impressed with his white awesomeness that they make him their leader. Like how Tarzan becomes a superior bushman than the native Africans because he is of British aristocratic stock. The white man can totally outclass the savages at their own game if he ever deigned to dabble in the savage ways.

Kurzon fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 20, 2021

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014



Drone posted:

Part of the allure of Dune is that this universe-spanning society 8000 years from now is utterly alien in how it functions, stop trying to inject weird 21st century concepts like "b-but you can't live without computer!" into it.

The setting has explanations for it that are weird and make no sense (Mentats, spice-addled Navigators) to us, the modern human viewer, for a reason. Because it makes the setting weird and cool and foreign to our current understanding.

"But you can't possibly run a starship without a computer" -- no dude, that's what the sick-rear end weird genetic mutants with the nictating eyelids and the sappho-stained lips and the big chonky dudes in the floating tanks/space suits filled with spice gas are for.

This guy gets it

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Or maybe you could just roll with the retro-futuristic vision that Frank Herbert had. You could have starships that are all mechanically analog with Mentant pilots regulating everything.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Kurzon posted:

The duel felt so cliché. Paul runs into some Injuns in the desert, they think he's a pussy, so to earn their respect he must beat one of them in a duel.

The duel is an execution. Thanks to his visions, Paul already knows he will kill the guy. Up to that point, he thought he could avoid the vision setting him on the path of becoming Space Hitler, but when Jamis just doesn't want to quit and threatens his mother, he gives in and becomes the killer with blood on his hand he saw in his visions. Quite poetic, really.

Sometimes clichés are a good thing!

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


Dune is clearly playing with "mighty whitey"/"white savior" tropes with the twist that nobody actually knows what they're doing and it all ends in planetary genocide. Which uh is a kind of important difference.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007


So is Feyd actually not in this thing?

Kurzon posted:

And there aren't very many Amish around, aren't there? It's not exactly a very popular way of life, is it?

So naive…

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/08/watch-out-america-the-amish-are-taking-over-slowly-but-surely/

quote:

DUE in part to their opposition to modern birth control and the value they place on fertility, the Amish are one of the fastest growing populations in the world – and new research indicates that in 215 years, their numbers could be greater than the current population of the United States (327.2 million)

The Amish are coming for you.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011



Ultra Carp

Drunkboxer posted:

So is Feyd actually not in this thing?



Feyd isn't, no. I don't remember if he appeared late in the books or if Villeneuve's merged his character with Rabban but to me Batista was the stand-in for Feyd here.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.



I embrace it.
gently caress zippers.

TerminalSaint
Apr 20, 2007


Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?


It occurred to me recently that if you want to make accusations of white saviorhood, the Pardot-Liet storyline is probably a better target. In light of which the casting of Liet for the film is an even better choice.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:


Soiled Meat

Baron von Eevl posted:

Thou shalt not make a computer in the likeness of a human mind, nor one that can support a serial bus that can be used for keyboards, mice, and printers all universally.

Live footage from the Butlerian Jihad in progress-
https://youtu.be/_YfjMZ6n8Bk

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

flashy_mcflash posted:

Feyd isn't, no. I don't remember if he appeared late in the books or if Villeneuve's merged his character with Rabban but to me Batista was the stand-in for Feyd here.

My guess is they will introduce Feyd in the second movie, maybe with the gladiator scene. But there is absolutely no mention or hint of him in this one so it's also possible it's going to be just Rabban, especially considering how Piter's role is downplayed too.

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



I can't find an exact quote but apparently Villeneuve has said that Feyd, lovely Feyd, would be in the sequel.

And Dune's current box office receipts are higher than anticipated so maybe that sequel might actually happen!

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Libluini posted:

The duel is an execution. Thanks to his visions, Paul already knows he will kill the guy. Up to that point, he thought he could avoid the vision setting him on the path of becoming Space Hitler, but when Jamis just doesn't want to quit and threatens his mother, he gives in and becomes the killer with blood on his hand he saw in his visions. Quite poetic, really.

Sometimes clichés are a good thing!
And the duel is also weird because in most traditional societies, outsiders weren't eligible to fight in duels of honor. And you often had to be of equal status to your opponent too. Like, in medieval England, only aristocrats had the right to duel other aristocrats. A peasant had no such right to challenge an aristocrat, the aristocrat instead sent his servants to beat up the impudent peasant. So Paul is an outsider to the Fremen, meaning he's nobody to them, possibly even an enemy.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Thinking about what this movie picks up from the Lynch version that isn't from the books, the Baron flying around with his floaters is a Lynch thing, isn't it? In the book he has them to make him lighter, but I don't remember him straight-up hovering in midair at any point.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Kurzon posted:

The duel felt so cliché. Paul runs into some Injuns in the desert, they think he's a pussy, so to earn their respect he must beat one of them in a duel.

Most of Dune is cliches that are just recontextualized enough.

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

You thought, "A robber must hate you to want to take from you"
The robber don't hate you


Forktoss posted:

Thinking about what this movie picks up from the Lynch version that isn't from the books, the Baron flying around with his floaters is a Lynch thing, isn't it? In the book he has them to make him lighter, but I don't remember him straight-up hovering in midair at any point.

Well, kinda.

The Baron fell back. His eyes bulged as he stared at a red slash on his left palm. "You... you...." He rolled sideways in his suspensors, a sagging mass of flesh supported inches off the floor with head lolling and mouth hanging open.

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Forktoss posted:

Thinking about what this movie picks up from the Lynch version that isn't from the books, the Baron flying around with his floaters is a Lynch thing, isn't it? In the book he has them to make him lighter, but I don't remember him straight-up hovering in midair at any point.
He hovers in the air after he dies.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World


Schwarzwald posted:

Everything is cliches that are just recontextualized enough.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so


Oh that's right, thanks. I guess making floating his main way of moving around is still a Lynch nod, though

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007


Forktoss posted:

Thinking about what this movie picks up from the Lynch version that isn't from the books, the Baron flying around with his floaters is a Lynch thing, isn't it? In the book he has them to make him lighter, but I don't remember him straight-up hovering in midair at any point.

That’s good, I know some things are trimmed in any adaptation but cutting Feyd seemed like a weird choice.

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016


Gargamel Gibson posted:

That Jamis guy was such an idiot. I bet he felt like a total dipshit when he died.

Have they stated what will be in the first movie? I feel like this could be where the two are cut. Paul kills Jamis....is given the name Usul and Maud'Dib....and then embraced by each member of the troop.

Thoughts? Seems like it would be a natural pivot point.

RestingB1tchFace
Jul 3, 2016


Libluini posted:

The duel is an execution. Thanks to his visions, Paul already knows he will kill the guy. Up to that point, he thought he could avoid the vision setting him on the path of becoming Space Hitler, but when Jamis just doesn't want to quit and threatens his mother, he gives in and becomes the killer with blood on his hand he saw in his visions. Quite poetic, really.

Sometimes clichés are a good thing!

Actually....Paul's visions were many....and many of those showed him dying beneath a blade. He had no knowledge of defeating Jamis as the duel began. In fact....I believe he thought that this was where he would die. But he soon realized that the cave they were in blocked out his future visions.

Kill All Cops
Apr 11, 2007

Pacheco de Chocobo





Hell Gem

Re: Paul's vision (movie spoilers) One of the many visions in the Villeneuve movie has Jamis being shown as a friend to Paul, and the duel visions has Jamis stabbing Paul and him bleeding out with VO saying he must die to be reborn again. The visions are either a way to show Paul a future that he can change, or he is trying to defy his own fate not a book reader btw

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


RestingB1tchFace posted:

Have they stated what will be in the first movie? I feel like this could be where the two are cut. Paul kills Jamis....is given the name Usul and Maud'Dib....and then embraced by each member of the troop.

Thoughts? Seems like it would be a natural pivot point.

The movie ends just after that fight.

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013



Kill All Cops posted:

Re: Paul's vision (movie spoilers) One of the many visions in the Villeneuve movie has Jamis being shown as a friend to Paul, and the duel visions has Jamis stabbing Paul and him bleeding out with VO saying he must die to be reborn again. The visions are either a way to show Paul a future that he can change, or he is trying to defy his own fate not a book reader btw

I think that vision is purely metaphorical for him - his noble prince self dies when he accepts Freemen tradition and kills in the duel

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



fatherboxx posted:

I think that vision is purely metaphorical for him - his noble prince self dies when he accepts Freemen tradition and kills in the duel

I might be wrong but I think in a vision Janis says something like "I will teach you the ways of the Fremen", which is technically true. I liked how it leant into the Greek epic prophecy style of vision.

I'm sure that that opening voiceover must have been edited after the events in Afghanistan, it was so on the nose.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

pointsofdata posted:

I might be wrong but I think in a vision Janis says something like "I will teach you the ways of the Fremen", which is technically true. I liked how it leant into the Greek epic prophecy style of vision.

I'm sure that that opening voiceover must have been edited after the events in Afghanistan, it was so on the nose.

I know, right? :allears:

Though the baron bathing in what looks like crude oil was almost a bit too much.

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


Did they? It still said who will be our next oppressors here.

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


pointsofdata posted:

I'm sure that that opening voiceover must have been edited after the events in Afghanistan, it was so on the nose.
How do you think it connects to Afghanistan?

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



I don't want to get all politics but it's like "we weren't able to oust our oppressors but then by imperial decree they left"

Kurzon
May 10, 2013


Does Villeneuve hate light and color? Dune looks a lot like Sicario and Blade Runner 2049.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018


Kurzon posted:

Does Villeneuve hate light and color? Dune looks a lot like Sicario and Blade Runner 2049.

In the same way that Caravaggio hates light and colour.

Perhaps you'd prefer a blue robot fighting an orange robot

pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



Dune looks great, it has some incredible scenes. The use of lighting is excellent. One still that stick with me is when the bene Gesserit are getting off the space ship near the start and lit via the fog.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Kurzon posted:

Does Villeneuve hate light and color? Dune looks a lot like Sicario and Blade Runner 2049.

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


There were definitely two or three scenes that could have been better lit. For example, in the dining room scene the bull trophy looks like it was shot with a phone camera in a poorly lit room.

Spermando fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Sep 21, 2021

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

I think the movie looked gorgeous on the whole, but some of the night-time scenes in the desert were a bit hard to watch due to the darkness and the washed-out colours.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011



Ultra Carp

I'm fascinated by the upside down human sacrifices. Was that in the book?

Spermando
Jun 13, 2009


No, and neither was the man-spider.

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pointsofdata
Apr 25, 2011



Both were A+ additions, very much in the lynchian spirit

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