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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Yeah I mean it's Villeneuve AND Dune? I'm mega hype.

I am genuinely surprised at how little has leaked, will be interesting to see when actual trailers/etc. start coming out, I assume some time soon since the movie comes out this year?

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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Have to admit, I kind of wish Dave Bautista was playing Gurney Halleck instead of Rabban. I mean Bautista as Rabban will be cool too just in the book Gurney always, just, like I could see Bautista being more of a physical match for Gurney plus he's not like he isn't talented enough to have a bigger role than Rabban.


In general I really like this cast a lot. I saw that Henry V movie (imaginatively titled The King) with Timothee Chalemet in the titular role and he was good.


The past adaptations always feel just a little bloated because of Leto and Paul having basically three different spymasters in Duncan/Gurney/Thufir all three of which are just sort of there. I mean obviously in the book there's much more to each of them than that and they fuckin' rule but the screen time isn't really there and even as a huge fan of the book I wouldn't mind if one of the three was just cut completely for an adaptation.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Shbobdb posted:

Not involving Sting, Patrick Stewart and Toto in this movie is a huge mistake.

Have to admit like nothing against Hans Zimmer but I do wish they went a little more out there with the score. Hell they could still use Magma like Jodorowsky wanted I think people would even be down with it outright now.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



I hate that the Lynch version lacks so much cool poo poo and characterization but the part where (most of the dialogue at least is from the book) the baron finishes talking about the plan building up to screaming "IT IS I! BARON VLADIMIR HARKKONEN, WHO ENCOMPASSES HIS DOOM!!!" before ripping out that dude's heart plug and feeding on him and then floats around laughing maniacally for like a minute straight as prog organ music is blasting is loving amazing.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Also having seen Jodowsky rant about ecology and colonialism first hand, they should unironically get him to play a completely nuts version of Liet Kynes.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



It's amazing how much I want to see Hayden Christensen as Feyd-Rautha

"I don't like sand..."

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Arglebargle III posted:

Lynch's Dune is a sprawling mess, but the Toto soundtrack and HR Giger art design is too cool to pass up. I doubt future adaptations will ever completely escape the look of the Dune universe that Giger and Lynch established.

It was crazy of Lynch to decide that what Dune needed is even more sub-plots.

For sure. I believe some of the ships/etc. in it were "canonized" as Herbert used the Lynch movie as the basis for describing some stuff in Heretics and Chapterhouse.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Strom Cuzewon posted:

I'm actually hoping for a much more restrained Baron. My favourite bit in the book is where he's getting pissed with Feyd for getting carried away with his dasterdly plots. "now, rape and murder are all good fun, but don't let that get in the way of actually achieving glorious revenge. Now, as punishment, I'm gonna make you strangle your favourite concubine"

I'm torn with this, honestly thinking it now I agree with you. I didn't realize it was going to be two movies and it'd be great if they are able to have a Baron portrayed the way it's said Leto suspects where he's a low key tactical genius that's more than happy to seem like an affable glutton when he's at court.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

My biggest gripe about the previous adaptations are how weirdly hostile all the Atreides folk are to Paul. Thufir is properly angry with Paul for sitting with his back to the door, Gurney is mortally offended at Paul not being in the mood for sword fighting etc. But these are the most loyal and dedicated Atreides followers, probably the most loyal in the galaxy. You disrespect the Duke and Gurney will knock your teeth out before Leto even has a chance to be offended.

Yeah, there was some tension in those scenes in the book, but it felt more like a friendly teacher winding up a precocious kid to make a point. Basically I want the first twenty minutes to be a massive bro-fest so that there's some actual emotional impact when things start to fall apart.

This is super true and I know why it happens, because on some level the people acting the parts/writing the scripts/etc. already know what happens, and surely that can effect stuff. Like these scenes play out in the adaptations as if they're angrily preparing Paul for the next hour and a half because they know they're going to get taken out rather than the more routine kind of training it feels like in the book.

It's why the Harkonnen party/arena scene isn't really a thing either. Feyd-Rauthra/the Baron/etc. are never written as if they're going to die at the end like you very very very obviously can perceive in big budget movies often with characters that won't make it. Like the Baron feels like a legit major threat right up until he first meets the Emperor at the end, Feyd isn't a huge character in the story overall, but he's built up again like he's going to be hot poo poo and potentially the emperor and all this stuff. Even Rabban, like he's not a complete moron in the book and the Baron even questions himself for thinking that as the story goes on and Rabban seems more perceptive than he expected about his plans.

Basically I'm hoping that with this being two movies, I mean I love the new Blade Runner flick but I hope Villeneuve uses all that time to develop these folks more instead of just showing extended establishing shots.


Strom Cuzewon posted:

Also I really want an extended sequence of Kynes' mad visions in the desert, arguing with his dead dad about ecology.

I know I said this before but having seen him speak a couple of years ago, I unironically think Jodorowsky himself would be the best Kynes ever. Like don't even give him a script just have someone out of frame say "Hey I heard that understanding the environment is important if people want to live but I don't really buy that" with no context just film him going off. He directed biopic of himself called Endless Poetry and it's fuckin' nuts, like his two sons play him or/and his father at different points in it, there's points where he himself walks into the frame and argues with his younger self arguing with his dad. I fuckin' loved that movie. It's easily the most Jodorowsky thing that will ever happen and then even better as he still has the self awareness to portray himself as a pretentious clown (literally at times as he was professional clown at one point) too.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 20, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



DandyLion posted:

Doesn't he shut down the Harkonnen shield during the assault (or am I conflating that with just the Lynch movie)?


edit: poo poo, that's Thufir I'm thinkin of. Disregard.

To leave Duncan in, my solution would always be to have him be captured instead of killed, and just have the unnamed Atreides guy Feyd kills in the arena later on actually be Duncan instead of some random soldier. So it's like, there's an actual point to Thufir living at all since it means the two were working behind the scenes to kinda sorta seem to get to this point where they could gently caress the Baron's plans over a bit (besides just Thufir hooking Feyd up with the lovely assassination attempt to keep them against each other). Make the arena fight more fair so it establishes Feyd as a significant threat since he's able to best Duncan instead of just him just popping up relatively out of nowhere at the very end, etc. things that would flow better in film form imo without having to really add anything new per se.

I'd even argue building up to that would be a decent climax between movies because then you'd have the first movie end with Paul solidifying himself on Dune, but the Baron has a lot of poo poo going on to maintain control of it and possibly take over the empire, you have a good amount of stuff resolved but also not resolved at that point. Also just realized you'd have two movies in a row ending with Feyd-Rautha knife fighting someone in true we don't want to try anything new Hollywood style.


Also makes more sense if they go into the sequels to explain how [technobabble] Duncan is back.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 20, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Arglebargle III posted:

As far as sequels, God-Emperor of Dune is genuinely unfilmable. Nobody could make that into a movie that works. It barely works as a novel.

I genuinely think just from Exorcist III and The 9th Configuration that William Peter Blatty would direct an outstanding God-Emperor of Dune movie. R.I.P.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Harmonia posted:

Years after reading the books I started to think that House Atreides with their water world is like the British empire with Paul being like Lawrence of Arabia. Harkonnen could stand for imperial Germaby or the Ottomans who were occupying Arabia.

Has Herbert talked about real life comparisons with the houses or characters?

Something interesting about that is that the Atreides are Greek, not just looks-wise but the Atreides house claims to be descended from Atreus (father of Agamemnon), Atreides is just the plural in Greek of descendants of Atreus. And the little description of Caladan and how its folks look always made it sound Mediterranean as hell to me. But as far as real life comparisons IIRC he's basically said the obvious that the spice is oil and that the houses are various western powers, but not really more specific than that. I don't think you can necessarily go 1:1 with it.

Given all the poo poo that goes down between now and when Dune happens, you might wonder how any family could make such a claim, but then we get into the ancestral memory stuff later on and like, oh.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 20, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



PeterWeller posted:

The claim is just that, a claim. They're space nobles who claim a mythic ancestry to bolster their claim to nobility, like nobility has done throughout time. Prior to Paul, no Atreides could explore his ancestral memories, and neither Paul nor Leto II ever bother to confirm the claim because by then they have even better claims as the Kwisatz Haderach and his direct descendent. A lot of Dune is about the stories people make up and tell to seize and maintain power. Being descended from Atreus is just one of those stories and has about as much actual historical backing as the myths disseminated by the Missionaria Protectiva.


Apparently, it also draws heavily on Lesley Blanch's The Sabres of Paradise, which is about Imam Shamyl war against Russia in the Caucuses.

I stand corrected, this makes me think too though. IIRC in Dune Messiah Paul mentions one of his ancestors is Hitler?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Hakkesshu posted:

Dune is maybe my favourite book, and Villeneuve is my favourite currently active director so yeah I'm trying to not be too hype about it, but I'm undeniably excited.

I'm re-reading the book right now, and every time I do I keep forgetting that the entire narrative is explicitly framed as a religious text dramatization of the rise of Paul Atreides, which is something no adaptation has really touched upon. I don't know how you'd do it, but marking the story as a piece of mythology from the get-go gives the story such a strong theatrical vibe which the Lynch adaptation honestly nailed. Maybe that wouldn't work so well for a modern adaptation, but I think Dune fundamentally needs some of that galactic scale, almost creation myth-like sensibility and I hope the movie doesn't disappoint in that area.

It's something they were definitely aware of and spoke about when creating the sci-fi mini-series, though how successful they were is up for debate.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJD19I5DK0

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Fish Noise posted:

I'm watching the fan cut now and one of them trips and nearly eats poo poo as they make their entrance too!

The best part is how as they leave they all sort of turn around in unison as if they're all going to bow or otherwise acknowledge the emperor in some way but then they just turn around and continue to leave. It's such a great half-assed like, way to acknowledge the emperor while insulting him at the same time.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Just want to mention since people are talking about the games, the FMV in Emperor: Battle of Dune fuckin' rule (that game has a great soundtrack too). Michael Dorn as an Atreides Duke?

They're not reconcilable with the book at all (and House Ordos is basically all new stuff) but use a lot of stuff from the books which is pretty cool. I loved that in Dune 2 it was possible to get an extra ending where you unite the houses and depose of the Emperor/House Corrino completely instead of just proving yourself of being worthy of staying in charge of Dune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvlDMbLPnY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg-4O-4llNk



John Rhys-Davies mentat hell yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT5snfvxDdc

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Maxwell Lord posted:

Lynchís Dune is very flawed but also pretty great. Plot wise thereís a lot of awkward exposition and overexplaining, but the atmosphere and the sense of power Lynch creates is something that had never really been in a sci fi movie before. Visually and aurally itís a work of art.

It kills me to see that "Dune Without Words" clip I posted earlier because even without any dialogue, like, you know exactly what's going on just from the sound design, the way everything's shot, the vastness of that palace ship, the way the Emperor is used to being in charge and is a little shaken by these Guild folks rolling in to talk poo poo. If that movie had a better script it'd be incredible. I'd still say it's an absolute must watch though just for the look and sound.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Yeah the theatrical version kind of rockets through stuff to the end, and the Alan Smithee version is somehow both significantly longer without actually filling in the gaps there.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

Return of the Jedi and Dune were released almost 10 years closer to 1955 than to today.

Also when was the last time you saw Return of the Jedi because lol C-3PO and R2 getting lifted out of the sand/etc.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Roman Reigns posted:

Are you sure he's dual wielding and the pug isn't holding the gun

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



I saw the re-colored version in a store and flipped through it a bit what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck were they thinking with that poo poo? Just absolute total objectively bad dogshit.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



MonsieurChoc posted:

But... it was already in color?


I'm still angry it exists.


Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Libluini posted:

OK, without context I thought the dark version looked better. But you all apparently prefer the shrill yellow nightmare world on the left??

Mods?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Hakkesshu posted:

DUNCan Idaho

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Hakkesshu posted:

⊃ u ∩ ⊂

Mods please change the thread name

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



The_Doctor posted:

Duke Paul Saltines.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Jared Leto should play Duke Leto and also Leto II in the sequels.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Tree Bucket posted:

It took me a little while to work out that the thread was discussing the famous actor Jared Leto, not the fictional nobleman Leto Atreides. I think I should get some sleep.

Duke Leto and Baron Harkonnen feuding and declaring a war of assassins because Leto only got the most minimal gains.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Cacator posted:

If we're basing our Dune opinions on The King then Robert Pattison should play Feyd.


Holy poo poo this would own.


Schwarzwald posted:

It's not like there's all that much that's original to Dune, either. The novel works as well as it does because it's stylization elevates/disguises what is otherwise a rote plot.

Yeah but just on even a superficial level A New Hope has moisture farmers and spice smugglers on desert planet with two suns and "sand people" and a mysterious, almost magic-like ability called the voice the force that lets someone be extremely persuasive. Which makes sense since Lucas was briefly involved in developing a Dune adaptation but still, it's there.

And while it wasn't in the final movie at all, Lucas himself has said Dune was a huge influence, and in earlier versions of the script there were even feuding houses and guilds instead of just the empire and rebels and instead of The Important Thing being the death star plans it was a formula for "aura spice."

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Landsraad? I am the Landsraad.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



I remember so many people challenge Paul to knife-fights for leadership that Chani starts doing the fights for him while he's doing whatever and her reasoning is like he's got more important things to do and also these folks want to kill her man so of course she's going to gently caress them up. But she also brings up how it sends a message to the rest of the world that like, you want to gently caress with Muad'dib? lol yeah right even Muad'dib's mere woman by herself has a higher body count than your entire sietch. And while the fighting prowess of the Fremen in Dune is unmatched/etc., you can see how that kind of takes effect to its logical endpoint when towards the end of the book you see characters freaking about how oh poo poo even small Fremen children are on par with the Sardaukar and even more ferocious.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

yeah as a crusade against "machine thinking," i.e. automation. and in herbert's context of the time as reflecting fears of computerization after world war II.

the dune encyclopedia is quasi-canon because herbert signed off on it, but out of print (it also conflicts with the prequels... hmm), which is very interesting in terms of world building. it describes the jihad as being sparked by horror at automated abortions.

Yeah even with the illustrations of literal robots and their human servants enslaving humanity in the Lynch illustrated intro, I always took it to be basically mythology to the people in Dune. And one where stuff is overly automated to the detriment of humanity rather than a literal Terminator-like scenario where thinking machines conquer people in the army sense. I mean it's something that happens 10,000 years before Dune takes place, look at how fluid our understanding of historical figures and the narratives built around them are from like, not even 1,000 years ago. So you could basically make the Butlerian Jihad pretty much anything you want so of course they went with the least interesting option.

Speaking of this, the overarching story and themes of the Picard show so far , I wasn't expecting it to go in the direction it's going at all, a great surprise.



BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

i don't mean to get all political, but i think it's interesting dune appeals to people with wildly different political views, while i've understood herbert to be pretty conservative or at least libertarian minded in a very pacific northwestern kind of way. i would probably guess it's due to the intensity of his vision, which is probably the most we can ask of a writer (along with being, like, not a lunatic)

This always makes me wonder, Dune has a reputation of being too weird to film and being particularly strange compared to other popular sci-fi stuff. But if the book is as popular and overall well-regarded as it is, is it really that weird? It's like how EVERYONE sees themselves and their political mindset as the rebels in Star Wars and not the empire no matter what their situation or walk of life is. There's a lot of politicking in Dune but the basic like, chosen one, noble savages, treacherous bad guys, galactic fate hinging on a personal grudge knife-fight kind of pieces are all in place and there's so much personal motivation to everyone's actions, it's easy to like how the story plays out regardless of one's political views.

Plus Herbert was definitely a conservative guy, but like I can't imagine some of the "luminaries" of libertarianism today writing something like Dune Messiah as a follow up to Dune. So no being a lunatic is definitely a huge help in service of the Dune saga.


PeterWeller posted:

Duncan doesn't just disappear off screen. Paul sees him catch a slow pellet in the head: "Paul had one last glimpse of Idaho standing against a swarm of Harkonnen uniforms--his jerking controlled staggers, the black goat hair with a red blossom of death in it." Then a few paragraphs later, Jessica says, "Duncan's dead, Paul. You saw the wound."

I think this sad anticlimactic death is much more fitting to the story, and I think it would be more effective on screen than some glorious death in an arena.

No way having him be the arena guy would be even MORE anti-climatic, like show him making his stand, you see him make a stand and get gunned down as Jessica/Paul feel like in the book. Then when he pops up in the arena, wounded but with a lot of fight left in him, it's like gently caress yeah Duncan is back, but just have Feyd like completely clown him and use the poison barbs and stuff like in the book so it's even more anti-climatic.

Either way I really do think one of those three should typically be cut or otherwise combined in some way. But since this is going to be two movies I hope that means everyone will be done justice to how they play out in the book.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



RBA Starblade posted:

I liked the part of the book where Teg goes super saiyan then spends like eight hours at an all you can eat buffet because calories exist and he burned a million of them

Was that the part where like while he's there some dude's babbling to him for hours about his new plant house and how it's taking too long to grow and then it ends with him just getting sick of everyone and massacring everyone?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Failson posted:

Emperor: Battle for Dune is clearly the best adaptation of the material.

I don't even know if I'm kidding.

It really is legit good, the design of the Ordos folks is great too!

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



MonsieurChoc posted:

Is there a good Dune or Dune-like Tabletop RPG?

You picked a great time to ask this question!

There's the classic Avalon Hill board game from the 70s. You used to have to drop $500 on Ebay to get it but now it's back in print and GF9 was even able to license the original artwork too:
https://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13814%20


An official tabletop RPG was announced for a little over a year ago, it's meant to drop a little before the movie releases:

https://www.modiphius.com/dune.html Their past work is pretty solid and they basically mostly do tabletop RPG books from licensed properties.



There are also various unofficial and (and even a few semi-official copyright hell) ones from years ago you might want to poke around into:

https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/45587/dune-chronicles-imperium
http://squaremans.com/the-dune-rpg/
https://rpg.phillipsuk.org/doku.php/dune:start

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Feb 6, 2020

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.




What's with all the old mattresses flying around?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Also IIRC it still technically has polar caps from which the moisture farmers are able to operate and then transport the water to Arakeen/etc. cities. They're just not polar caps in the " continent made of ice" sense but in the "enough moisture build up happens that an atmosphere exists and people and live on and farm it" sense.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



I still wish they got Alejandro Jodorowsky to play a hyper version of Liet Kynes father's ghost for the vision scene like don't even give him a script just be be like "Hey Jodo I heard some people have hurt the environment lately what are you're thoughts on tha-" and roll the camera for four hours.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

I'm digging the stillsuit design. They look a lot more like practical survival gear than Lynch's. Although I'm not sure why they need a second set of knuckles.

Punch without rhythm to KO the worm.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 14, 2020

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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



The_Doctor posted:

I hope the rest of it all looks 8000 years in the future super weird.

I really do wish any of the adaptations would remember that people sit on chairdogs. Genetically engineered beings shaped like chairs that are made so that the only action they're capable of is perceiving when their owner is going to sit down, and then running to that spot so that their owner sits on them. I don't they don't appear until Heretics but come on give us some live action chairdogs lol.

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