D U N C: suks to be yueh - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > D U N C: suks to be yueh

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Jewmanji posted:

Feyd and Rabban will have to be consolidated, just like Duncan/Thufir/Gurney, I suspect.

Isn’t Bautista playing Rabban? I really doubt he’s been merged with Feyd; Bautista could take on a schoolbus of Tim Chalamets and win.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 22:03

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# ¿ Jun 4, 2023 22:38

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Honestly the whole human potential angle of the book is so silly and of its time. You could be as smart as a computer if you just studied really, really hard!

# ¿ Feb 1, 2020 19:30

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I never got why in Dune the main fighting style isn’t Monster Trucks—I get why shields obsolete guns, explosives, and lasers (kind of) but what is a dude with a knife going to do about a slow moving vehicle (with maybe some spikes on it etc).

# ¿ Feb 19, 2020 18:08

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Just walk with~~out~~ rhythm.

# ¿ May 22, 2020 19:12

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I don't think austere is a terrible choice for material like this, and some stuff looked pretty rad anyway (the Sardaukar (?) troopers dropping in front of the wall, Raban & the Baron), but a 15,000 years into the future feudal pre-capitalist spacefaring society is an excuse to go apeshit.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2020 07:36

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

The first book has a fun adventure plot and cool political intrigue (at least the first 2/3rds). Herbert wasn't a particularly great writer though and there's not much of interest in the subsequent novels.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2020 21:34

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Anne Frank Funk posted:

phew, what a hot take

I don't think it's that hot. Dune is seminal sci fi, no doubt about it, but Herbert's weird perspective issues weaken a lot of his scenes, for example.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2020 22:27

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Is there any reason why in Dune the preferred method of fighting isn't to ram SUVs into each other? Wouldn't a shielded SUV ramming into a shielded dude still gently caress the dude up really bad from getting thrown around?

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 19:32

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I feel like there would be more pikes in Dune irl.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2021 20:38

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Herbert explicitly said Windows 95 was just at the edge of legality in Dune, but Windows 98 was banned.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2021 04:26

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Kurzon posted:

The duel felt so cliché. Paul runs into some Injuns in the desert, they think he's a pussy, so to earn their respect he must beat one of them in a duel.

Someone here pointed out that Dune plays like a Young Adult novel and...it's kinda true.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2021 08:30

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I think Frank Herbet was some kind of 60s California Libertarian, which isn't as bad as 2020s Libertarian but still features a lot of Dumb Ideas.

Also he hated gays, which is pretty obvious in the book.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2021 05:48

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Nolan really really loves movie theatres. Like, more than he loves human life.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2021 19:08

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Tankbuster posted:

The throatsinging Sardaukar basecamp sequence has buried into my brain.

It's the best scene in the movie. There are A LOT of scenes of dudes standing in squares in landing fields and that one crushed it.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2021 05:10

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Pedro De Heredia posted:

Wait a second

How the gently caress did Arrival get a B on CinemaScore? That's practically a pan!

That's kinda surprising, but I think the marketing suggested some Army vs Aliens action, and the surest way to get a general audience to react negatively to something is to give them something they're not expecting. And maybe people were confused by the ending.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2021 20:14

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

This isn't really in the movie at all but how are smugglers supposed to work in the Dune-iverse? Is the idea that they sneak onto Guild ships or sneak contraband cargo onto above board shipments?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2021 01:01

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

It was pretty funny the Atreides were using some phalanx tactics on the steps to the palace. That...seems like a pretty good idea, although isn't the canonical idea with the Hotlzmann effect that it actually reflects momentum? But what if your spear has a shield on it?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2021 01:39

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Nitrousoxide posted:

Considering they were willing to use lasers against shielded targets, I think it's safe to say the Hotlzmann effect is different in the movie compared to the book except for where they explicitly said things are the same.

Yeah which I think raises the question of why everyone isn't using lasers in the movie. That one they used on the door didn't look THAT cumbersome--why not just use those to cut the Atreides to pieces in the landing zone? Maybe lasers flat out don't work on shields in the movie?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2021 01:46

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Tankbuster posted:

Incels will just copy the Sardaukar instead.

They'll identify with black spider mutant.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2021 03:10

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

It's got a pretty good script and some good acting, but also some bad acting and it's lit like a stage play and has a bunch of dumb dutch angles.

You should look up the Ian McNiece scenes on Youtube.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2021 09:26

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Denis feels like one of those directors with a fantastic visual sensibility who's ultimately at the mercy of the script he's working with. I feel like his next project should be Koyanisqaatsi 2.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2021 23:42

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Jason Momoa should only play parts where he's a contemporary cool dude, or doesn't speak English.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2021 01:24

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

kater posted:

i clicked on some links in the dune wiki and got to a never made french 70s movie featuring 2000 extras pooping.

where would that scene have been in this?

The cut dinner scene. Denis only had 100 poopers, which is truer to the book to be honest.

"Father! Father. The sphincter has awakened!"
--Paul Muad'Dib

# ¿ Oct 26, 2021 05:45

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Who should they cast as the Emperor? I say Ian McDiarmid or Michael Cera.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2021 00:28

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

DeimosRising posted:

Are there any notable takes on this movie (in the thread or elsewhere) that aren’t primarily about how “well” it adapts the novel? A discussion of the movie itself as cinema or even just in context of some other movies or something

Nah.

It's worth pointing out that this movie covered 2/3rds of the book--and the last 3rd of the book doesn't really have all that much plot beyond Jessica and Paul doing weird drug trip stuff, a few scenes with the Baron, meeting Gurney, and then the big climax. So there'll be, I expect, a lot more space for Villeneuve to shape the narrative.

As far as movie qua movie: honestly I'm not sure there's really all that much to say outside the context of the books. It's curiously unreconstructed in some ways--the Harkonnens are hyper-capitalist post-Geiger Cenobite nightmares, the Sardaukar are American Spec Ops Pagan Chuds, the Atreides are marginally preferable in that they're British Raj or maybe Clinton era Americans, except Paul & Co. who go native.

The Fremen are...well, they're not exactly the Mujahedeen. They're about as ambiguously ethnic as the Atreides. Chani in the opening voice over points out the Atreides are just another colonial master, which is fair enough, but what is Paul exactly? Lynch's Dune is ultimately tale of personal psychic liberation via drugs, sex, and rock-and-roll against the forces of oppression, conformity, and ultraviolence. It's hard to really get a read on this version without an ending...

I was hoping there'd be a strong OPEC/Energy/Scarcity/Water/Climate Change angle, but there's very little of the economics or physics here.

porfiria fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Oct 27, 2021

# ¿ Oct 27, 2021 06:20

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

This thread is getting boring where is smg

# ¿ Oct 29, 2021 21:37

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Gaj posted:

I liked it, but it work better as a mini-series or a perfectly done HBO series. We got the first act of the first book, and how many years will it take to get act 2?

It's actually worth noting we got 2/3rds of the novel in this movie. I think a lot of people forget that there's not all that much event after Paul joins the Fremen--he and his mom [vague spoilers] gain their powers and acculturate and then it's the climax.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2021 03:10

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I feel like all you need to know about the KJA/BH books is that the Butlerian Jihad is imagined as Humans Vs. Robots.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2021 03:38

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Does Hyperion have any deranged anti-Muslim material?

# ¿ Nov 3, 2021 02:30

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Ej posted:

Finally got to see this, and feel like bleeding my thoughts out onto the sands of this thread.

Villeneuve is such a frustrating director to watch for movies like this because he is SO married to the first-person style of storytelling. Almost everything in this movie revolves around Paul, and how he personally experiences the story. It makes for a very visceral watch, and I feel like the most impressive parts of the movie are in the feel of it. The buildings are all massive brutalist behemoths, with cavernous and poorly lit interiors. It looks like these people live in mausoleums, and they behave like it. Their mood is as cavernous and dimly lit as the sets they inhabit. There is feeling there, and every once in a while it surfaces, but when it does it feels like violence, an upset of the natural balance. The only character who seems to break out of this mold is Duncan, and this makes sense as he is the bright spot in Paul's life. Everyone else is mostly muted and stoic. Paul's intuition of their impending doom looms over and colors everything, which is great for Paul's story ... but I wonder if there is going to be anything to tell here OTHER than Paul's story at the end of the day.

We get to see Paul's dreams and visions directly. We experience his time-skips when he is manipulated. We feel his dread for his family, and his apprehension at his future. And we feel his self-loathing, both at what he is and at what he is going to do. We don't get this for anyone else. Paul's parents TELL what they have hoped and dreamed, but only in relation to Paul own feelings. When Paul uses the voice on others, or others use it on people not-Paul, there is no missing time. There are moments where people interact without any relation to Paul, like when Gurney and Leto are surveying the city, but these are only used as info dumps. The motivations of some are made clear by their words and deeds, but that is all we ever get, we never get to FEEL other characters like we feel Paul. Yueh's actions obviously have a lot of different conflicting motivations behind them, but we never get to experience that conflict. He stoically and matter-of-factly tends to the Atreides, until he stoically and matter-of-factly betrays them, and then stoically and matter-of-factly gets killed. And what of Thufir? He obviously feels some warmth for Paul and feels like a failure because of the assassination attempt, but what about non-Paul related stuff? What does he think of the Atreides plan? Where the heck was he when the poo poo hit the fan? Did Yueh kill him? Did he commit suicide because of his epic failure? And then Gurney - he seems to have a kind of warrior priest or knight templar thing going on in this movie. Let me get into some of that. What are his thoughts/feelings on allying with the Fremen? Seems like they would have a lot in common. I like the one great outburst we get from him, on the brutality of the Harkonnen, but it is the only such one in the whole movie, and AGAIN it is directed at Paul. When he actually sees the Harkonnen coming to wipe out the Atreides, he is back to the stoic warrior priest, murmuring "God in heaven", and running into the fray. This has to be an absolutely apocalyptic moment for him, but he smothers it and goes on with his duty. Why go this route? Let me feel his rage, despair, crisis of faith, something!

The motivation of the antagonists are also a bit murky. I didn't catch much of any personal rivalry between Atreides and Harkonnen. The Baron mostly seemed miffed at temporarily losing his cash cow (MY Arrakis). His personal executions feel perfunctory, by the numbers. Join your wife. We've had blood feud for centuries but your line ends here. That's the extent of it, all in a monotone that seems like he barely cares about what is going on. I'll grant that that adds a certain chill to the Baron's character that could be interesting to explore, but still there is a feeling of seeing his character from a distance. We don't really get to know what is driving him, if anything (other than gluttony). Maybe that will be the point? That such high power leads to a kind of power-for-its-own-sake brand of nihilism? Again, could be an interesting direction to explore, but this movie doesn't seem to have any interest in going there. This is the pattern, over and over again. The only one worth exploring in any depth is Paul.

I think I could be more down with an opaque and grungy tale of political intrigue and revolution if it weren't for the fact that Paul's journey is so clear and sharply defined. If you are going to tell a story of power, revolution, sociology and ecology, why are you telling it ONLY through the lens of the person forcing the change? I want to believe that this is all a setup for a great shakeup in the next movie, where we get to see the galaxy from others' perspectives, maybe feel Paul's use of the voice on them or see their dreams as they are realized or destroyed by the galactic holy war. If such a turn comes I'll be ready to do a full 180 on this movie. But if it doesn't, this all plays to me like a powerful person's heroic fantasy. What if I could use my power to actually be the hero the world needs? What if I had a great injustice I could avenge at the same time? This feels like a waste of a great setting if we don't also add the question: how does everyone else feel about this? Without that, it reads like Watchmen told only through the eyes of Ozymandias.

Don't have anything to add at the moment, but thanks for the Good Post. Worth a million boring takes on the Laser Guns.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 20:28

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

The United States posted:

https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1456336542616543232

"There was not a chance in hell of her showing me up. Loved it!"

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 00:03

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

In dune messiah theres a dwarf named bijaz. A character uses super ninja voice inflection to tell an 80 year old woman shes not a sex object. The bene gesserit try to make paul and his sister gently caress.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2021 23:31

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

I feel like the Jihad in the books is really weird--it's something Paul doesn't want to happen, and the Fremen seem like chill Zen Sufis who just want to get high, ride worms, and grow plants all day. There's zero sense of any kind of evangelizing zeal or expansionist/imperial interests on their part in the first book. I guess killing the Sardaukar made them really like killing?

Not to mention the logistics of a couple million dudes wiping out the galaxy (even if they are really good at...swordfighting?!)

# ¿ Nov 29, 2021 06:15

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Idris Elba will be the Emperor.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2021 22:18

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# ¿ Jun 4, 2023 22:38

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

I made a Thanos reference and the college kids at work were like “ I was in middle school when that came out you old!”

Dear Lord, although this timeline is a bit of a stretch.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2022 05:05

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