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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Lynch’s Dune is very flawed but also pretty great. Plot wise there’s a lot of awkward exposition and overexplaining, but the atmosphere and the sense of power Lynch creates is something that had never really been in a sci fi movie before. Visually and aurally it’s a work of art. The performances are great too- the Baron isn’t like the subtle schemer of the book but he’s a perfect symbol of imperial decadence.

It’s a shame we’ll never fully see what Lynch intended (the TV cut has more footage but he wasn’t involved in the editing and MAN it shows). I understand why Lynch has kinda disowned it- it was the first time he really lost control of a project (and last unless you count all the drama with s2 of Twin Peaks.) Still I love it.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

PeterWeller posted:

There is a rote form to the central plot, but that's part of the point. Paul goes on a hero's journey so Dune can interrogate the nature of a hero. He's a dude who fits himself into a ready-made myth so he can use it to empower his revenge and restoration. He's not a chosen one, but he's made by his and others' hands into one. But that's just one of the many concepts the book is exploring. It's plots within plots, schemes within schemes.

Frank Herbert's main idea was arguing against the "Great Man" theory of history by showing a messianic revolutionary hero who is, inevitably, a product of greater historical forces and movements that he can't control. Of course there's also a lot about ecology and human development (there are strict rules against "thinking machines" in the Imperium, so they're replaced by hyper-trained Mentats and Bene Gesserit, and the Guild need spice to do their advanced hyperspace calculations, hence he who controls the spice... etc.)

Even splitting it up into two movies I doubt they'll be able to catch absolutely everything.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Didn't Herbert basically write Dune and Messiah together?

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Hodgepodge posted:

Ironic, considering that his entire critique of the idea of jihad is so fundamentally liberal.

Paul's actual tragedy is that he can't reclaim his place in the system without giving commoners a brief outlet for justice and actual change, and he spends two books pouting about it. The best part of the books is that Herbert wanted to be ruled by the God Emperor; he wanted a strong daddy to keep everyone in their place.

He knows that this is bad, and gets as much mileage as he can out of spinning in circles refusing to consider that maybe justice being more important than keeping your hands clean might not just be a luxury of the nobility, and that Paul's guilt over the jihad is pure hypocrisy.

I mean he also manages to kill more people than Hitler and Stalin combined and it’s as much about slaying nonbelievers as exacting justice...

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Simiain posted:

I mean, as opposed to what, the Wizard of Oz technicolor of Arrival or Sicario or bloody Bladerunner???

People seem to be hyped or willing to forgive it because its Villeneuve, but at the same time worried about the most distinctively Villeneuve aspect of it.

I mean 2049 had some very colorful scenes, but yeah Arrival may as well have been B/W and this looks the same.

I mean I can sympathize, it'd be impossible to get this movie bankrolled in B/W and maybe that's just the vision he has. But I am kinda sick of sci-fi in general being distinguished by that "everything's earth tones" look. (The new Ridley Scott series has some cool designs but the color choice.)

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Simiain posted:

It did, but these were squeezed in between the expanses of dulled monochrome that comprise the majority of the film and, really, rather define it. My favourite image from that movie is the flight into LA and seeing the colour of the city as a thin strip of light between ranging, bleak deserts of urban blight. Wonderful!

I'm the opposite to you in so far as I much prefer this kind of earthy, dingy tonality to the fantastical brightness of something like the more recent Wachowski pictures, for instance.

I mean it works for some material but when it's used as commonly as this it gets annoying. The trailer for the Brave New World series also had this very austere look and that dystopia should be gaudy and glitzy as gently caress.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I mean the Atreides in Lynch's film had this nice kinda-warm Dark Green look, sort of an overall baroque aesthetic. You'd almost want Caladan to look very homey and comfortable to contrast with how uninviting and hostile Arrakis is.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

bawfuls posted:

Do we also hate the generally dark and drab look of the Lynch movie? Cause everyone wears black in that and it’s generally brown/black.

I feel like the earthiness of that is a lot more rich and warm. There's not as much slate-gray.

Also, the flesh tones in Lynch's film feel richer, while everyone in this trailer looks a little washed out. Stop taking the blood out of people's faces dangit.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Mulva posted:

The entire point is that it isn't. It's staid and boring and unimaginative and dying. That's quite literally the antagonist of the novels, the stagnation of human civilization, and trying to avoid it's inevitable extinction.

I mean, decadence can look cool as poo poo.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The miniseries had an interesting aesthetic, even if it felt like they didn't always have the resources to realize it.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

phasmid posted:

As I said in the other thread, I don't think they'll get rid of the religious element altogether, especially since Islam (or rather a fusion of Islam and Buddhism) is intrinsic to the Fremen character. It's the source of their power and mystique. Though I wouldn't shy from them using the word "jihad" I can see why they might not.

Yeah I imagine there's a good chance that "jihad" shows up in the movie, just not the trailer.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Vintersorg posted:

Wait are we talking about the Dune 2000 game cinematics? Weren't they just all Lynch stuff?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT5snfvxDdc

They licensed some things from the film but not everything. So Paul looks like Kyle MacLachlan and Jessica is Francesca Annis but Leto, Gurney, Yueh, etc. all look way different.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I predict a sorta semi cliffhanger, probably ending after Duncan Idaho sacrifices himself to save their lives.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Sad, but understandable. At least I'll hopefully be able to see it on the big screen.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Krazyface posted:

I don't think wellwhynot is saying "no-one I know has it so it's not real", they're saying that the pandemic has ended in their country. How is Trump getting sick relevant to that?

I mean in countries where they're not just letting the coronavirus roam free, it's very much in waves- there can be intervals where it's seemingly dormant because everyone's quarantined properly, but can come roaring back if re-opening is done too early. This was the predicted pattern at the start of all this. If an effective vaccine is improved we can start transitioning to a more permanent re-opening but it becomes a question of getting it to as many people as possible.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

That just means the return of physical media, we'll watch things on datatapes and filmbooks.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Vancouver's shooting again with precautions, and that's a hub for a lot of shows and movies.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Grandpa Palpatine posted:

You cannot be this ignorant.

Adjusted for inflation it would cost 325 million USD today.

It's not like they wasted any of it. It's a pretty convincing boat disaster.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The actual Luddites were, it's important to remember, more concerned with the rights of workers than with the evils of machinery- the machinery was being used to exploit them, was the problem. I can't imagine a revolt and crusade actually getting underway just because people get lazier, there has to be some kind of catalyst.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Payndz posted:

Filming the first half of a novel without any commitment to making the rest is just a mind-blowingly :stare: decision.

I'm starting to think that this was the only way they could get it greenlit- Villeneue didn't have the pull, the only previous theatrical adaptation had flopped, etc.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Beast Rabban Killed on Arrakis by His Own Men

I know it's the Emperor but this fits better

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Yeah like, I wish they hadn't taken this approach (in terms of the second half not being a guarantee) so I hope we see the conclusion in some form whatever happens.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Honestly after all this time of theaters basically not being a thing despite some being open, and who even knows how open they’ll be by the end of this year, I have no loving clue what metrics WB will even use to say if we get Part 2 or not. They may cut back hard, or they may roll forward because dammit they’ll need something in the pipeline.

What is a hit? What is a flop? It’s chaos.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Blood Boils posted:

Shall I tell you a great secret of the world?

There's no such thing as reliable narrators

Victor Hugo begs to differ.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The miniseries had its moments but there were a few key scenes that the Lynch version just plain staged better, like Leto's death or Paul's reunion with Gurney (which is actually closer to the book in the Lynch version.) It was very uneven.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I legit loved the art design, you could call it “IKEA” I guess but I liked how boxy and chunky everything was. The textures go well with the largely monochromatic photography (which is something I dislike in Villeneue’s work generally but it works about as well here as it could.)

My major complaint is just, well, they tried really hard to give this an ending in itself while still making it clear this is part one, but nah it still feels abrupt. Not as abrupt as, say, Bakshi’s Lord of the Rings but still, it’s just an incomplete story and there’s no getting around that.

Okay that and I feel somehow the siege of Arrakeen shoulda been better? Like there’s some cool parts but this is the big devastating scene where the bad guys slaughter everyone and it hits kinda soft. Honestly I think Zimmer fell short here, the scene’s got a lot of emotional beats and you can’t just have the same drone going through all of it.

I did like seeing the ecological station and spending a bit more time with Liet Keynes. Javier Bardem playing Stilgar as having no time for anyone’s poo poo was a pretty great choice. Yueh and Hawat do kinda get short shrift and there are signs that even with the story split up the studio was pressing for cuts- nothing as egregious as in Lynch’s film but there are some weird cuts here and there.

These are scattered thoughts, overall I liked it.

Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Oct 23, 2021

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Hobo Clown posted:

Cool movie, story would feel incomplete though if they never make a follow up.

Apparently I've been pronouncing a lot of this stuff incorrectly

I still think “Har-KOHN-ens” sounds better.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

The Sardaukar being fueled by mass human sacrifice was an interesting touch

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

I feel like the spaceship shots are kinda important to the mood- you do need to convey the power of the forces at work, the mammoth machines dwarfing the men that control them and all.

I do find it curious that Paul never says the "I must not fear" speech- it's Jessica both times. Odd choice.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Philthy posted:

This was fantastic. Thank you! Now I'm going to rewatch the movie again as soon as it gets dark tonight. I have a feeling this is going to make it's way into my top 5 at some point.

This is why Lynch struggled and ultimately made the weirding modules. Because he felt a bunch of people running around with daggers would be too easily killed, shield or no, so he powered them up to make it more believable. I never had a problem with it.

I think another thing that's changed is that in the 80s, "martial arts", to the US public, meant Chinese and Japanese stuff in badly dubbed movies playing on TV, and the idea that the Atreides had some special technique of fighting that made them more powerful than other armies- the Weirding Way- was gonna be hard to convey. So the modules were a nice little metaphor, it's still a technique but hey there's a gadget too, you can get that right?

It could have used some elaboration here, but I suspect Part II will actually get into that as there's a good opportunity to.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

D-Pad posted:

You using a smiley face for one.

Yeah anybody who thinks any part of the Lynch movie is superior besides the camp/weirdness has a broke brain.

The music’s better, the production design is more interesting (I like the new film’s production design, but the old one’s is better), and I’d say, despite some effects not coming off, the attack on Arrakeen is better. Also the Baron, really.

Like, I like Villeneue’s Dune. It is very much a version that’s been made more accessible, which does require losing some of the little details, and that’s fine. I do think the reviewer does go a little far in complaining Dennis did it different, he kinda had to, the Lynch film already got made. There are many good things in this movie. But I probably still do prefer Lynch’s version, compromised though it is- there’s something to it that’s not in any other genre film, and I’d compare it to 2001 or Solaris in terms of cinema-as-visual-art.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Jack B Nimble posted:

Regarding the Harkonnen, I don't think wanting All of the Money and living in a culture that prizes an appearance of austerity are mutually exclusive.

Yeah consider how Melania Trump did the White House Christmas decorations. I can imagine the Harkonnens having the same aesthetics as yuppies.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Shifter posted:

Every stage on Giedi Prime after Piter’s juice mantra looks like “the budget ran out” big time.

It looks great. The brilliant green walls, fountains of crude oil, the whole thing being open to the air like some bizarre office layout/maze, it's a nightmare world.

The spider thing was neat too. It is probably meant to be some weird genetic freak the Harkonnens just bred for shits and giggles.

I do wonder if the filmmakers were concerned that making the Baron too opulent and flamboyant might play into the queer coding that's been in all other versions but, so this version is more animated solely by money and spite.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

No Mods No Masters posted:

It could be trolling but I don't think it has to be taken that way. That's basically what kojima said in his review, that denis is kind of wasted on tentpole blockbusters. I'm somewhat sympathetic to it

Maybe in general but Dune is specifically a passion project of his from what I understand, that’s why he was willing to commit to part one with no guarantee of part two.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Momoa is perfectly cast IMO. He is very much A) someone who could kill most people without breaking a sweat and B) a big loyal friend. He works very well and having Brolin as the more cynical Gurney is a good counterpoint.

And yeah I'm glad Villenue is happy with the theatrical cut of the film and doesn't feel it was compromised but I would like to see some of the stuff that was cut anyway. Just make it deleted scenes, that's fine, have it be an interesting side curiosity for the people who are really into the movie or whatever.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Hello Shai-Hulud: Dune Part Two

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

stratdax posted:

Depends on how true they want to stay to the book. He's described as red-haired and looking no older than 35 (despite being like 75).
Because Spice extends life, something not mentioned in Part 1.

Oh so Paul Rudd

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Typo posted:

I don't see how you can possibly adapt book 2/3 at all into a movie meant for general audience

It would never happen in a million years but I would have Lynch do Messiah.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Hodgepodge posted:

You're in for a wild ride. That is mostly talking. But wild!

tbh Children of Dune is the more filmable of the sequel books. It has Leto II hulking out and clowning on people with his total precognition and sandtrout skin at 500 km/h as a huge payoff. Most of Paul's limitations were a result of his internal resistance to the Golden Path and Leto II choses to embrace it because he's already a monster.

To be the Messiah is to be born a monster. You could turn aside from it, but being born this thing, your love for humanity is greater than your love for being human.

I do want to see how they handle the sandtrout stuff. Like we want to talk something that's hard to visualize without looking ridiculous but is also absolutely necessary to what happens later...

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:



Grimey Drawer

Can’t get a much better example than Activision themselves. Started as a group of game devs who split from Atari over things like wanting credit for making the games, released stone classics like River Raid and Pitfall, but they were never the same after the video game crash in North America.

EA’s not a bad example either. Released some great stuff for the PC, Starflight, Pinball Construction Set, Adventure Construction Set. Their sports games were for a while worthy of their reputation. Slowly they became what they are today, a company that buys other companies and actively makes them worse.

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